One Million Reels BC $204,167.54 + was hit today

[deltoid]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

 

[RobWin]

I agree Deltoid, it is past time for a Rival Rep to man up and come in here or the thread over at the GPWA and make some sort of statement regarding this mess!

 

[same_old]

they just dont get it do they everyone, 9/10 there is always a paper trail you can look into and get the real story of what's going on.

To me, it seems they may have wanted this money back for themselves and thought this promo is the way to go about it. It looks legit on the outside but when you get to the nutty middle is where the real issue lies.

These are issues we know about, I would cringe to think of all the inhouse stuff that goes on that we dont know about.

So this year we have had CAP do there scam, Joyland (playtech) do a runner on a jackpot winner , casino's changing there T&C's to make it basically a FU clause which we all know-means they can do what they please, and now this.. this is making the whole industry look really really bad IMHO.

Casinomeister is probably the most honest place there is at the moment when it comes to online gambling .
If the casino's involved people like us and affiliates on promo's and stuff im sure we could meet half way and get some really decent bonuses out there.

In a perfect world Casinomeiter wouldnt just be an online player advocate place, it would be CAP- it would be marketing- it would be Ecorga to certify places...that would make so much of a difference in the whole online group.

Casinomeister is the Sheriff in this wild west of online gambling.

 

[Rusty]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

Sorry Deltoid I think talk of this just being a silly mistake needs nipping in the bud.

You have to understand there was a reason that this promotion was given when it was.
There was reason that it could only be played on this particular progressive.
There was a reason you could only play on max bet.
There was a reason that there was a max cashout rule on this bonus.
And almost certainly there was a reason that jackpot happened to be hit by someone playing with this bonus coupon.

The Jackpot funds have been put back and that is right but lets not pretend this was just a naive mistake on Rivals part.
This really was as cynical as it appears.

 

[deltoid]

Rusty, I was trying to be generous.. but you're right, it just smells too much. Even if they didn't tamper with the reels (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that) the rest of the rules and how it was done was just completely wrong. They stepped in it for sure. Now I'm wondering how they can get out of it, I mean ya they can come out and apologize and say it was a badly designed promotion to say the least, but what can they actually do to get themselves out of this hole.

I suggest everyone who posted in this thread gets a cut of an equivalent Jackpot, we'll call it the Sorry We Tried To Rip Off The Progressive Fund.

 

[same_old]

Rusty, I was trying to be generous.. but you're right, it just smells too much. Even if they didn't tamper with the reels (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that) the rest of the rules and how it was done was just completely wrong. They stepped in it for sure. Now I'm wondering how they can get out of it, I mean ya they can come out and apologize and say it was a badly designed promotion to say the least, but what can they actually do to get themselves out of this hole.

I suggest everyone who posted in this thread gets a cut of an equivalent Jackpot, we'll call it the Sorry We Tried To Rip Off The Progressive Fund.

Meh, the AP scandal was a HUGE issue and AP just kept quite about it and peoplpe still play there and its like nothing has happned. the same will happen here

 

[deltoid]

AP scandal?

 

[same_old]

AP scandal?

Sorry Deltiod,

AP- Absolute Poker scandal.

This will bring you up to speed.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Jasminebed]

Call me cynical, but I do think Irish Luck was hoping to pull a fast one. Doing the right thing should have happened days ago. not in response to public exposure.

And not all that public exposure. MikeW will receive his $375 win, plus a little extra for some good publicity, the jackpot is rightfully returned and back to business as usual.

As the primary issue (return of jackpot funds) has now been resolved, this will wither on the vine. Even actively looking for info on this hit yielded few relevant results.

 

[chuchu59]

From the moment they sent an email to the first winner, they intended to reinstate the JP winnings otherwise why would they stop him from splashing out to gain comp points. I think they couldnt withstand the neg publicity on this issue. Who would play their progressives if again some casino comes along and offers the same deal. The real players will suffer. That said, it will still take some time before players come back and play the progressives in full force.

One other issue worth pondering is whether the other Rivals were involved or at least consented to Irish Luck doing this. If Rival casinos see others as competitors there is no way that they would agree to it. If, as Pinababy sees it, they are strapped for cash then it is highly possible that they would think of something else in the future to rip off players.

 

[chuchu59]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

I doubt whether this was a dumb promotion. In fact, it is a calculated move. They figured that it was likely that a huge number of players will take up the offer and it would be of no cost to them because you are very unlikely to cash out the $375 if you dont hit the JP. If you did and you knew you were not entitled to the JP winnings, anyone in his right mind would try to salvage as many comps as possible. So, if the winner had kept the story to himself, he would have earned around $8K-10K in comps and Irish Luck will trumpet him as the Progressive winner with a tale to tell. Things, however, did not work out the way they intended but I am pretty sure they will come up with something more devious in future.

 

[Jasminebed]

I know that at one Rival casino I won from a free chip, and played on, expecting I would accumulate comp points, but I did not.

I've read of players being denied comps as well as bonus banned.

I think Mike would have earned far more in comps, but his account was "reset" so no longer an option, because another forum member at another forum pointed out to him he maybe could.

There would be players that once their interest was piqued, would try again for the progressive with their own funds. That would be a legitimate goal of such a promotion.

Deltoid, I'm not confident it was their intention from the beginning to return the jackpot. Otherwise, why did this not occur withing hours of a max cashout win winning the jackpot?

I think most questions have now been answered as fully as they will be on this issue.

But even the jackpot's return fails to restore my faith. What do they care about my opinion...I am in Canada and no longer a player (BTW, never a player at Irish Luck, but I was a Rival player).

 

[same_old]

I know that at one Rival casino I won from a free chip, and played on, expecting I would accumulate comp points, but I did not.

I've read of players being denied comps as well as bonus banned.

I think Mike would have earned far more in comps, but his account was "reset" so no longer an option, because another forum member at another forum pointed out to him he maybe could.

There would be players that once their interest was piqued, would try again for the progressive with their own funds. That would be a legitimate goal of such a promotion.

Deltoid, I'm not confident it was their intention from the beginning to return the jackpot. Otherwise, why did this not occur withing hours of a max cashout win winning the jackpot?

I think most questions have now been answered as fully as they will be on this issue.

But even the jackpot's return fails to restore my faith. What do they care about my opinion...I am in Canada and no longer a player (BTW, never a player at Irish Luck, but I was a Rival player).

Well the casino is named IRISH luck so no wonder they stuffed the promo up.


Well my Story with Rival is good, opened a acocunt with pantasia took the %100 welcome bonus deposited $50 and pulled out $600 and havent played at a rival since-this was over a year ago.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win. He will probably lose much more from that Vegas trip and finish this tosh on a minus.

He had done the wagering before the casino even contacted him, so basically they had no right to take the money out of his account as the promotion had been completed. They acted like a rogue casino just doing what the hell they wanted to mikes account. With out asking just to save there own skins and of course to make you lot happy lol. BTW the casino contacted him the next day! Biggest win at a rival casino and they took that long to contact the player_decisions decision= screw the player, well everyone at that casino meister forum seems to agree. :xxx:machinegu

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win.

REALLY????,I think not. Notice the dates on I and II below and tell me that I was not concerned about MIKE WHO??? (Sorry Mike and this is not personal. It is about an on online gaming company with numerous on-going designed schemes that do not pass the litmus test):

I.
"From : NASHVEGAS
To : Casinomeister
Date : 2009-01-19 15:50
Title : ICE QUESTIONS???
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Hey Bryan,
Nice job on the awards.

Was curious if you are going to have a thread for ICE questions and
if so,I may have a question if the people at Rivals that actually call the shots attend.

Actually, Rivals has multiple issues that should be addressed but I have chosen to remain virtually (npi) silent.

That said, the issue for possibly ICE deals with the installment payments of the so-called progressive jackpots (and no transparency of such that I could locate) which according to your previous posts, I do not foresee our opinions conflicting,lol. I did answer Sdaddy's question on the forum last Saturday pursuant to this issue on the forum but that is it.

Then last week, I received a casino manager's ,iirc, promo email that not only mentions for marketing purposes my so called progressive jackpot win but offers progressive jackpot bonuses which I not only question the intent but believe as you have previously posted that so called progressive jackpot winner's winning's paid via installments (and in my case I am also living proof) will in most cases end up as a windfall ultimately for the casino and/or Rivals.

There are other major ethical issues with Rivals but I prefer to only bring the so-called progressive jackpot payment issues to your attention as I feel we will be of the same mindset.

I do not object to making you aware of the other, maybe, even more serious issues pursuant to Rivals, assuming I can establish or maybe restore my credibility which may have been sabotaged.

Thanks...."

SIDENOTE:FTR, the next day, 1-20-2009, on my own accord I closed my last Rival account without a word. Just did it but what should have been the end regardless of whether I was a Rival whale or not was not the end. They tried pulling outrageous bullshit thereafter. I will not hesitate to post all as it was beyond belief but I will surely be banned cause I A'INT, lol, paraphrasing if I post the exchanges ..... It is as rogue as it gets.

II
Excerpt from [post=277025]Here[/post] on 1-10-2009. Anybody seen a response after 120 days+, please let me know:

"Hello,
I still have yet to receive a direct answer to the direct inquiry that I asked Eric of C.S. approx.10 days ago in regards to progressive jackpots all being paid in installments to the subject winners of such as I have now been told (but I have no way of confirming so it may be hearsay). I understand that the funds are actually collected across the various Rival's casinos and consist
of funds contributed almost in full by it's participating patrons of the subject progressive slot.

Thus, my question was and still is what happens to the actual cash funds
that Rivals and/or the subject Rival's casino has in hand, in the event,
regardless of reason (can be many but not relevant to the question) the subject winners of the progressive jackpots loses some part and/or all of the already funded cash designated for the subject winners back to the subject Rival's casino as non-cash credits (not cash) while Rivals and/or the subject
Rival's casino withholds the subject progressive jackpot cash winnings from the subject winners during the reverse period and subsequent varying dependent number of weeks thereafter.

To date, I can only make certain assumptions (with the exception that Eric of Support did email a response stating that the cash is not returned to the Jackpot) so please be specific in your response to my actual inquiry above.
Best Regards,
Garry"

PEACE

 

[winbig]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win. He will probably lose much more from that Vegas trip and finish this tosh on a minus.

He had done the wagering before the casino even contacted him, so basically they had no right to take the money out of his account as the promotion had been completed. They acted like a rogue casino just doing what the hell they wanted to mikes account. With out asking just to save there own skins and of course to make you lot happy lol. BTW the casino contacted him the next day! Biggest win at a rival casino and they took that long to contact the player_decisions decision= screw the player, well everyone at that casino meister forum seems to agree. :xxx:machinegu

You're missing the point:

The money was NOT Irish's Luck's. If it was a jackpot that was exclusive to their casino, then by all means, they could do with it what they please; but even then if they had pocketed the money, it would still be considered unethical and roguish.

However, the money was from a pooled jackpot fund across all 15+ Rival casinos.

Every player that has ever played this slot had a good reason to balk at what happened.

If you ask me, any money that the winner lost before this was brought to light should be replaced to the fund by either Rival or Irish Luck (more appropriately, the latter.)

Sure, it sucks for the winner, but that point is that Irish Luck had laid out the T&C which outlined the max cashout very clearly in both the email that was sent out, and in the cashier...he knew what he was getting into, and had assumed that he could keep playing on the money if he had won and racked up comps...

And besides, didn't Rival casinos put a stop to people earning comps on ND bonuses?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Although it is possible that the names were registered in 2006, half of those casinos were not open for business;

Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, Paradise 8 and DaVinci's Gold were.

ClubVegasUSA, Lion Slots & Irish Luck opened in July 2008

Absolute Slots opened in September 2008 - but I thought it was confirmed that this casino was owed by Lou & Warren of CAP infaminity...

Also, why isn't Mayan Fortune on the list?
This is owned & run by whoever owns Pantasia Casino and was definitely open for business long before the ones listed above. (Definitely in 2007, possibly in 2006...?)
I don't know for sure, but personally I don't think Rival do own all of these casinos. I know for a fact they don't own two of the others which aren't mentioned here, because I've met the actual owners in person!
I was also led to believe Irish Luck was owned by an Australian company.

It's all a bit strange...
KK

FWIW, the "MOTION TO INTRODUCE PROCEEDINGS" is dated October 24,2008 by the Plaintiff's counsel.

 

[Casino City]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival. This whole issue surrounding winning progressive jackpots with free spins paid for by a casino is quite a mess. Based on what I see, and I know a fair amount from behind the scenes, there are likely no real winners here in the grander scheme of things. Messes like this are a net loss for the industry.

Michael

 

[winbig]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival. This whole issue surrounding winning progressive jackpots with free spins paid for by a casino is quite a mess. Based on what I see, and I know a fair amount from behind the scenes, there are likely no real winners here in the grander scheme of things. Messes like this are a net loss for the industry.

Michael

Yes...everyone loses in this case...not just the casino or players..

But, tell us the whole 'behind the scenes' story and let us know wtf IL's true intentions were

 

[LOOKAWAY]

You're missing the point:

The money was NOT Irish's Luck's. If it was a jackpot that was exclusive to their casino, then by all means, they could do with it what they please; but even then if they had pocketed the money, it would still be considered unethical and roguish.

However, the money was from a pooled jackpot fund across all 15+ Rival casinos.

Every player that has ever played this slot had a good reason to balk at what happened.

If you ask me, any money that the winner lost before this was brought to light should be replaced to the fund by either Rival or Irish Luck (more appropriately, the latter.)

Sure, it sucks for the winner, but that point is that Irish Luck had laid out the T&C which outlined the max cashout very clearly in both the email that was sent out, and in the cashier...he knew what he was getting into, and had assumed that he could keep playing on the money if he had won and racked up comps...

And besides, didn't Rival casinos put a stop to people earning comps on ND bonuses?

Actually rob Irish luck paid for Mikes 10 free spins like casino city mentions, then Mike owns this JP for comp point conversion and Irish luck casino is in the shit house, Then what Irish luck should of done is returned the JP back to the progressive slot and left mikes balance in place for him to either just cash-out the $375 and call it a day or play his balance down to $412.50 then cash-out, case solved. So why all this hassle? A: they don't want mike to walk away with up to $20k cash of a free chip with a $375 max cash-out even if they have goofed up.

Maybe Mike also contributed to this JP with his own money like a lot of other players, did you think of that.

I reckon Mike will walk away with about $5k worth off prizes including the Las Vegas trip. (take in mind Irish luck is not paying for casino hotel accommodation to)

Nash I goofed up, and not to just you. Very sloppy on my part, That reply was only targeted on the members who were pushing for the JP just to be taken of mike (stolen) like it was.

 

[BingoT]

After reading around the Internet on this Irish Luck thing I like to know who will drop them? Or does that nasty word get in your way.I know I did and will never play at Irish Luck again.
You see many views on them that you don't see here.
All this stuff & my friend Mallorca & bb made my mind up about this whole thing.
I like to know your views about why you will still promote them? or Play at Irish Luck.
Thank You

I am just Mad about how all this took place.
Maybe time will mend all this and I will try it again.

 

[chuchu59]

Bugger,

Promoting them is one thing. Playing is another. If these guys gave me a free chip I will definitely play. Nothing better than robbing the rogues. Asking me to deposit even $5 is another thing.

It's great to hear you arent promoting them now. Meanwhile, I hope to know the inside story as to why there were no outcries from the other Rival casinos though. A conspiracy?

 

[BingoT]

Thanks you Bugger too.
I just want to hear the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.
This is all too crazy and you have to think what all other casino's do on the side lines that no one's hears about.
Because they are all Perfect yeah right.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The legal issues will just have to play out but ftr I joined GPWA in order to ask Mr. Corfman one question. He did reply. I have my own reasons to believe there is merit to the litigation but for now I am nothing more than a Monday morning quarterback with a great running back.

More importantly, regardless this is not just an Irish Luck issue. Maybe someone can find out where the $62,000.00+ in cash I never received is on my "so called" $67,000.00+ progressive jackpot win in late December 2008.

Please understand, I take full responsibilty for losing the non-cash credits back.

That said, I then strongly felt my lost non-cash credits thereafter should be restored to the progressive jackpot with the actual supposed cash in hand that was never disbursed. DID NOT HAPPEN and someone is or will be due this and perhaps other subject cash (See Below) as I have no idea if the couple subsequent winner's to date may have done as I. IS THE ABOVE COURSE OF ACTIONS BY RIVAL NOT THEFT FROM THE PLAYER WITH INTENT???

FYI:

Here is a copy of your recent chat with casino support.
General Info
Chat start time Dec 30, 2008 7:54:29 AM EST
Chat end time Dec 30, 2008 8:17:49 AM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:23:20
Operator Eric

Chat Transcript
info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. You are currently placed in queue number 2. The average wait is 39seconds. An operator will be with you shortly.
DELETED THE REPETIVE BLAH<BLAH<BLAH!!

info: You are now chatting with 'Eric'

Eric: Welcome to thisisvegas Live Support. How may I assist you?
you: NASH....xxxxxxxxxxxxx....go ahead and reverse the remaining $9K....no further comments but I have a question, when a person wins a progressive based on the play across casinos and the others players wagers, then wants weeks to pay the progressive, the player loses it all back due to perfect storm of the casino per se, then where does the original progressive win money that never really got paid go???
Eric: Hello Mr.XXXXXXXX, let me read that question
you: correction="then the casino wants weeks to pay the progressive"
Eric: I'm not sure I'm understanding it 100% but basically if the win on a progressive is reversed you are wondering if it returns back to the progressive jackpot?
you: Is that your answer as my question is clear
Eric: well I cannot say for sure, that is a very good question, would you mind me having management check for you? Also keep in mind that due to the holidays that withdrawals took a bit longer then usual
you: I understand about the holidays, the perfect storm is very complicated issue but always seems to be well timed...anyway I will sail on
Eric: I see, thank you for understanding, You will be emailed on the question and I will reverse 9k of your withdrawals if you still wish to and email you back right after this chat. is that ok?
you: Yes sir,ty
Eric:You are very welcome.
Eric: I wish some Happy Holidays to you!
you: The same from Tennessee
Eric: Thank you very much!
Eric: The withdrawals have just been reversed
Eric: the rest is expected to finish very soon by the looks of it
you: TY..Goodbye
Eric: You are very welcome.


The follow up email from Eric on 12-30-2008:

Dear GARRY,
Following up on your chat with live help earlier.

Once the Progressive Jackpot is won the fund are the players (unless wagering is still required for a particular bonus).

So if no restrictions are left the winnings can be cashed out and the normal Progressive Jackpot will start to accumulate again.

No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win.

Thank you for understanding and Happy Holidays!

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely,

Eric
thisisvegas Customer Service

SIDENOTES:
1."(unless wagering is still required for a particular bonus)"-
2."no restrictions"-oxymoron,yes???
3.[/B]"cashed out"=
*by no means paid
**expect stalling with sincere apologies, a payment periodically and be sure and check other forums so you will know you are not a priority as I won late on 12-21-2008
***it took a a day or two to be told how I was supposed to be paid, and iirc there is a CAP thread with a 12-24-08 post by my Bud addressing concerned affiliates who had not been paid via NT and MB, no worries though-lol
****afaic my first installment was to be $20K-got $5K but I suppose this may have been semantics and not an issue but may be for others
*****after you "cashed out" you can reverse at anytime over the course weeks, months or longer until you are paid in full-anybody wanna make a bet?
****** Sorry, to say but Mike may be in a better position with the current situation just mentioned by Lookaway than if he won all-I guess that depends on the individual and casino and/or company
4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

 

[spearmaster]

4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

This is correct. The player (you) took the action of your own accord - you could've cashed the entire amount, or you could've played the funds back - but in this case money does not go back to the progressive jackpot unless of course you are playing that particular jackpot!

Obviously, if a player loses a jackpot back to the casino, the casino is entitled to the funds, just as if the player had deposited real money.

 

[RobWin]

4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

Why should they be? That was your cash then that you chose to reverse and was not the casinos cash to add back to the progressive pool..I don't see what you are getting at here.

 

[RobWin]

More importantly, regardless this is not just an Irish Luck issue. Maybe someone can find out where the $62,000.00+ in cash I never received is on my "so called" $67,000.00+ progressive jackpot win in late December 2008.

Nash, is that really a fair statement there. You yourself just got thru posting about reversing 9K back...did you also reverse more back too that you have not mentioned here or did you just end up playing it all back? You of all people new the T's & C's of getting paid by TIV and their weekly withdrawal limits for as long as you had been playing there...just trying to keep it real here man

 

[pmhcfc]

Just read this thread- and the whole thing does stink to high heaven....disgusting behaviour on Irish Luck's (Rival's) part - truly one of the worst things I've seen.

I do have a question though - if 'speculation' is correct and there had been about 6 million spins to get the JP to $210k - and now it hit TWICE - would it be safe to assume it's going to be a fair while before it hits again? Meaning the JP could well be $500k by the time summer is drawing to a close? You see, as far as conspiry theories go; this could all be part of a grand plan - get the JP to hit to a free chip, put the money back into the pot - it will be many millions before the JP hits again - the JP is higher - the more people play to try and win it - the more money Rival makes...

You would feel it may be a good time NOT to play this slot - having said that, if they can pre-determine when it's going to hit anyway (and evidence seems to prove that) then perhaps they'll let it be won pretty soon so they are able to paper over the cracks of this debacle....who knows?

I don't care what anyone else says - Rival (Irish Luck) KNEW the JP was about to hit - hence the promo - and they hoped they could get away with it...wonderful places like this forum stopped that happening.

With all this said and done- you can't help but to question the ethics and fairness of the whole online (casino) gambling thing....

 

[NASHVEGAS]

This is correct. The player (you) took the action of your own accord - you could've cashed the entire amount, or you could've played the funds back - but in this case money does not go back to the progressive jackpot unless of course you are playing that particular jackpot!

Obviously, if a player loses a jackpot back to the casino, the casino is entitled to the funds, just as if the player had deposited real money.

I could flush large amounts at anytime thus it would be called a reverse. Others can only flush up to $2K per day or $4K per week with the balance remaining in their casino cash account balance at least as of January. There may be an exception for progressives or now will be.

Once again semantics and I understand but it is mentioned time and time again on this forum that progressives paid by small installment payments will in all likelihood be lost back to the casino. I swore CM deemed it unacceptable,lol. And give me second to find two quotes. As I said I take full responsibility for my actions.

Furthermore, I am viewing this on a macro basis, not a micro. basis. Reverses are one thing, inducements to reverse or play back your balance through well designed schemes, Baloney. I want a check at a BandM, I get it or even this week at MG paid, no thought of reversing and not a dime touched.

 

[chuchu59]

I cannot speculate on whether anyone would know that the JP is about to hit. However, the progressive amount was such that it was felt that it would be worthwhile to get this promo going. If Irish Luck doesnt succeed maybe another Rival will follow up with a similar promo until someone hits it. Personally, I do think that all Rivals are involved in this and each one gets a fair share of the JP winnings that could have been played back as the max cashout is only $375. Who knows? Maybe another Rival could have offered 15 free spins at this progressive at max back and claim it was done to counter the a competitor.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash, is that really a fair statement there. You yourself just got thru posting about reversing 9K back...did you also reverse more back too that you have not mentioned here or did you just end up playing it all back? You of all people new the T's & C's of getting paid by TIV and their weekly withdrawal limits for as long as you had been playing there...just trying to keep it real here man

Not a gray area and I said I took full resposibility for the reverse, playback, whatever. The undisbursed funds (on a progressive only) should be someones', not mine nor Rivals'.

Ultimately one of main issues is should progressives be paid by installment and thus many issues become moot.

FTR, there were no transparent TandC's on progressives and my payment arrangements had nothing to do with the TandC's. And their TandC's still have the same problems today as this time last year but off subject.

If someone wants to be paid a progressive in full, they should, if not then it is no secret how it usually ends.

 

[spearmaster]

I could flush large amounts at anytime thus it would be called a reverse. Others can only flush up to $2K per day or $4K per week with the balance remaining in their casino cash account balance at least as of January. There may be an exception for progressives or now will be.

Are you saying that the entire amount was put into your account but you were only allowed to cash out according to the casino maximum payouts per week?

If so, this is wrong, of course.

Furthermore, I am viewing this on a macro basis, not a micro. basis. Reverses are one thing, inducements to reverse or play back your balance through well designed schemes, Baloney. I want a check at a BandM, I get it or even this week at MG paid, no thought of reversing and not a dime touched.

Yes - for a progressive win, you should not be subjected to a maximum payout or installments.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Are you saying that the entire amount was put into your account but you were only allowed to cash out according to the casino maximum payouts per week?

Yes and it remained there for several days while John worked with whomever on how I would be paid. At any other of the 4 or 5 Rivals casinos I checked with, the progressive win would have been paid exactly as you state including Sloto'Cash, a favorite of the forum members afaik. I also had an account with Sloto. An 1-5-09 chat excerpt:

Reena: Thank you for using Sloto'Cash Casino Live Support. Should you have any future questions, please contact us again.
you: I have another question, I see on you winners list you have had progressive winners. Since progressive jackpots are accumalated from players across all the various casinos , are they paid in full and not installments??
you: did you cut me off??
you: hello
you: I guess so
Reena: of course not
you: gr8
Reena: I'm still here.
Reena: One moment please.
Reena: They're paid in installments.
you: so progressives are paid installments, then they should not be called progressives imho
Reena: Your opinion is always more then welcome
Reena: Is there anything else I might be able to help you with?
you: ty for now and I appreciate the information....good luck

That said, at TIV I was eventually allowed long before the progressive win to flush much larger amounts than the daily and weekly maximums but was paid per the terms of the actual daily and weekly maximums. In order to flush larger amounts than the daily and weekly maximums, the cashier had to be reconfigured. There was no reverse period.

Pursuant to the progressive win, the winnings remained in my casino cash balance for several days until I was told strangely but no biggie, I could flush most of the win but not all after a 24 hour reverse period. I was to receive 3 weekly installments of X and the remainder in the 4th. Obviously much more favorable terms than any other Rival's casino whereby at least in January it would be exactly under the terms you state as unfair.

If so, this is wrong, of course.

Agreed

Yes - for a progressive win, you should not be subjected to a maximum payout or installments.

Unfortunately,one is subjected to such and even being an exception it still ended up exactly as CM states. I can only imagine someone under normal terms ending up with much of their winnings

Dave's site states ~ $668,000 in total progressive wins paid this morning but that may have included the $200K+ that has been added back to the subject thread jackpot pool. I wonder how much cash winnings actually has been disbursed by Rival..

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash I goofed up, and not to just you. Very sloppy on my part

Thanks for being a stand-up guy but I never took offense to in the slightest.......BTW, I am president of the "I goofed up" club...Cheers

 

[LOOKAWAY]

As were on the subject of cash-out reversing. I once had a balance of about $1.5k which I lost and went ahead and reversed $8k at superior casino, and then lost that to. The reason was that they were having cashing out problems that went on for weeks so I couldn't cash-out, I think it all stinked as if they paid me on time I could of matched that money all over the web with many promotions and had a lot of fun.

And the real kick in the teeth is they bonus banned me for winning a few hundred bucks of a birthday free chip. What did they want me to do on my birthday sit and watch a blank screen.

 

[spearmaster]

I should retract my statements partially, as I don't know how Rival pays its jackpot winners, whether directly or through the casino, or if Rival actually claims to pay in installements (can't find it on their site).

My statements are in relation to jackpots on Playtech- and/or Microgaming-powered operations. I think Cryptologic and Boss and RTG also pay jackpots in full but I am not 100% certain.

Either way - whatever the software provider's policies are in relation to progressive jackpots should/must be honored by its licensees without modification, except at the request of the winner.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

Does anyone remember not so long back now when TIV ran a progressive free chip, with a max cash-out?

Edit: I just found a screen shot. (I never play progressive slots)

 

[hitobito2005]

I think Cryptologic and Boss and RTG also pay jackpots in full but I am not 100% certain.

Boss do pay jackpots in full, i've had confirmation of this before from BM.

 

[thelawnet]

May I remind you that the EH issue was due to a programming error, and everyone was compensated, and that I inspected the code in question and stated my opinion that it was clearly unintended? It may well be that many people still don't believe it - but that was my professional opinion as a programmer and naturally it is disappointing that people cannot take my word at face value.

Forgive me, but I never heard a credible explanation as to how they could think to add a non-random bonus game to what is a straight forward video poker double-up game. Doubtless the code they sent you (some weeks later) was plausible, I daresay I could have knocked up similar, had I been in a similar situation.

 

[thelawnet]

It is a bit different. It sounds likely that Rival owns and controls all the Rival-powered casinos, they are the same entity. So it makes no sense to "rogue" Irish Luck on its own when in reality it does not exist as an individual entity.

Playtech is a software providor and does not own or control all casinos which use it's software. If it's proven that Playtech has been involved in dodgy dealings regarding Joyland and the jackpot confiscation then perhaps they should be rogued. However, this does not mean players are at risk if they play at reputable casinos using Playtech software.

Playtech did own Joyland. They bought Joyland from a trust owned by their founder, and sold it on to William Hill.

 

[thelawnet]

And I have to agree with RobWin - there are similarities with the Playtech-Joyland issue, where a 41 percent shareholder in Playtech was allegedly connected through a Trust arrangement with the company that actually owned Joyland.

Not allegedly, in fact Playtech disclosed it in a regulatory filing:

Old / Expired Link

The Purchased Assets are principally being acquired pursuant to arrangements with Uniplay International Limited (Uniplay) and Six Digits Trading Limited (together the Uniplay Assets), companies ultimately owned by trusts in which Mr. Teddy Sagi is beneficially interested. A trust in which Mr. Sagi has a beneficial interest owns approximately 41.06 per cent. of Playtechs issued shares and, accordingly, he is a related party of Playtech for the purposes of the AIM Rules.

Consequently, the Acquisition is being treated as a substantial transaction and a related party transaction for the purposes of rules 12 and 13 of the AIM Rules. The Directors of Playtech consider, having consulted with its nominated adviser, Collins Stewart Europe Limited, that the terms of the Acquisition are fair and reasonable insofar as Playtechs independent shareholders are concerned.

 

[mojo]

I don't mean to interrupt the playtech issue but it appears that Rival Casinos are White Labels.

I have been watching this thread and I have learned a TON! TY

White Lables puts a different spin on things. Irish Luck appears to be a WL. Which means that IL does not own the casino but simply markets it.

To explain further, Irish Luck has a contract with Rival to market this casino and earn a high percentage but it does not own the casino. Rival does. Apparently, and please correct me if I am wrong but most (all?) Rival casinos are WL.

 

[Pinababy69]

I had been going to go back through the thread and multi-quote a ton of posts in reply, but why bother? I read Casino City's post last night, and had to literally sit on my hands to not type some smart ass reply about his claim of back room discussions.

So I decided I would think on it...and try to come to some conclusion as to why he was so convinced of independent ownership...when, to me, it was as plain as the nose on my face, that these joints are all owned by the same people. Sorry, but people don't go to the expense and trouble of hiring top notch legal firms to "fabricate" false claims against a corporation. They obviously think they have a case, as does the solicitor involved. So I went to bed last night pondering the situation, and just before I drifted off....BAM!! WHITE LABELS!!!

That was the only explanation that would cover both Casino City's and mine conviction in our opinions.

A short time ago, I read the thread at the GPWA, and then read Mojo's comments here. All I can do is laugh my friggin head off. EVERY ONE OF THESE CASINOS IS OWNED BY THE SAME PEOPLE!!! Just as the legal documents state...ha ha ha. Rival...what a bunch of total dipshits you are.

The white label scenario completely explains all the bonus banning, delayed payments across all casinos (off and on), absurd withdrawal limits, ridiculous wagering requirements and so on. I feel like the cat that ate the canary.

Honestly, it's no wonder I don't connect with too many people anymore. Everything was there for anyone who chose to see. Of course, people choose to believe what they want...and what is CONVENIENT for them to believe.

No need to post here anymore.....I'll just sit back and wait for the all the people who promote all these places to tell all of us how white labels aren't all that bad, and about niche marketing...and so on, ad nauseum.

Going to pour another drink...this is the best fucking laugh I've had in ages. No wonder no Rival reps comment anymore...on progressive payouts or anything else. It's in direct conflict with their contractual obligations. You know..the contracts with the people who OWN these places. What a fucking joke. If I had a picture of a herd of sheep, I'd post it. BAAAHHHHH!!!

Rival, I hope that T2 Marketing kicks your ass to hell and back in court.....or that at least, you have to pay through the nose for your failure to honour your contract with them. Disguise the true ownership? Ha ha ha....what a bunch of scam artists. The best thing for players is that every one of your casinos are shut down, ASAP. Of course, the affiliates wouldn't like it too much, especially the ones who promote to the U.S. But if that new legislation goes through, you'd never get a licence anyway.

Required reading for anyone who doesn't know what white label marketing is all about, or anyone who actually cares.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/microgaming-white-label-issue.19166/

I am so glad that my livelihood is not derived from anything to do with online gaming, and any of these scam outfits....whose sole purpose seems to be to deceive people. I may not have much money, but I go to sleep every single night with a clear conscience.

 

[mojo]

BAM!! WHITE LABELS!!!

I feel like an idiot. Why didn't I think of that. It all makes sense now.

Pina says it better than I could.

 

[jetset]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

Have you read Corfman's last post at GPWA????.......Then I believe City Guard's post thereafter can be explained by one of attorney Michael Lipton's articles that I referenced in a previous post. I'll post an excerpt and link on the article later......Was reading the old TIV thread.......Something is rotten in the state of Ottawa, Ontario, and prolly Barcelona!!!...........Chillin!!

 

[Tengil]

So basically the Bonne Chance Rivals are just super affiliates of Rival Gaming. No wonder there are so many popping up.

Exactly the same as the poker skins under Tusk/MPP, altough Rival is probably not a scam. But if (a very big if) Rival goes bust you know what happens..
Who knows what will happen in the court case?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

JACKPOT:yahoo::yahoo: (imnsho)

A fair and balanced article excerpt and link below (imho) but needs additional legal clarification as there was a late 2006 amendment/Bill known as 1952 ,iirc, which as I read may state the legal issues below are only applicable to the Provence of Ontario. I have tried without success to confirm current law. I have no reason to believe at this time that there have been any additional amendments, modifications or other but I do not have a current written legal opinion (whatever they are worth,lol)

The above said, Rival Gaming becomes involved in an alledged breach of contract dispute with a CANADIAN MARKETING COMPANY. Negotiations for ~ 2 to 3 years including demands for payment by T2 (per exhibits) before ultimately legal action commences in late 2008......maybe the article will aid in speculating on and/or connecting some dots per se ((including the possible truth (OOPS) on Rival Gaming ,lol, pulling out of Canada among several other recent courses of action)) with this highly ethical, transparent and accountable online gaming company .

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"The Advertising and Marketing of Online Gaming in Canada
By
Michael D. Lipton, Q.C.
& Kevin J. Weber

Advertising and Marketing Online Gaming and the Canadian Criminal Code"

"Generally speaking, real money online gaming enterprises with substantial connections to Canada violate the gaming and betting provisions of Part VII of the Canadian Criminal Code (the Code).For this reason, online gaming enterprises that involve Canadian individuals must move as many aspects of their operation offshore as possible to minimize connections.

Different considerations come into play when offshore online gaming and betting operations advertise their services to Canadian residents using Canadian-based advertising and marketing firms and Canadian media outlets.

Assuming that an online gaming enterprise has minimal connections to Canada (operation and conduct entirely outside Canada),is it legal to market the website to Canadians bettors and gamers?......................................."

NV NOTE: The 4 defendants/Rival et al et al et al, among others reside in Canada per the filed "MOTION....", fyi!!!






SIDENOTE: I am sorry but respectfully request no future PM's/emails requesting legal documents unless you are an established member of this forum. Where possible, I have complied with everyone's request except for a few members who are new. Once again, I apologize for my above request......BTW, there may be others with access to some legal documents who may be willing to comply with new members requests. I will not mention whom though so please do not request from moi...TY and Peace

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival.

Michael

Mr.Corfman,
I hope you will clarify and/or elaborate on your above statement as the statement above may be a misrepresentation (without intent imo) pursuant to certain allegations by T2 based on one's interpretation of your above statement.....TIA,Garry

 

[Pinababy69]

Official Statement from SlotoCash

This just posted at the GPWA:

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Hi All,

Please accept my apologies for not posting sooner, however Sloto'Cash management wanted to get the full story from Rival before making our position clear.

We are satisfied the jackpot was returned to the progressive fund, as both the 1st and 2nd progressive jackpot were won with No Deposit bonus's. For those not clear on how the progressive jackpot accumulates, for every amount wagered by the player the casino operator's pay a percentage to the progressive pot.

We feel the promotion has indirectly damaged Sloto'Cash's reputation and would like to clarify the following:

Sloto'Cash is independently owned and operated by Deckmedia N.V and is in no way affiliated to any other Rival Casino.
Sloto'Cash operate's their own 24/7 support, retention and financial services in-house.
All financial transactions are made through Sloto'Cash's own processors.
Play on any progressive jackpot is excluded from no deposit promotions at Sloto'Cash, unless otherwise specified and in these cases there would be no max cash out on progressive jackpots.
The progressive jackpot is paid to players as one lump sum and is not subject to weekly withdrawal limits at Sloto'Cash Casino.
We cannot comment further at the moment, but would like to assure affiliates we will continue to act as a responsible casino operator.

Best Regards
__________________
Wael
[email protected]

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Kudos to SlotoCash for making a public statement.

And I have to add that it was the one Rival I wasn't sure about in re: Rival ownership. I do believe they are a stand alone operation, given the numerous postings on this forum regarding payouts, bonuses, the processor they use, etc. None of their day to day operations seem to be in line with ALL the other Rivals.

I am extremely happy to see the public statement re: progressive jackpot payouts. That is the way it should be done.

That was professional and addressed the most critical points that have been brought up in this thread and others. Given that statement, and nothing but positive feedback from players, this is one Rival that I would even consider promoting if I were in that end of the business.

I, nor anyone else, will ever convince affiliates to stop promoting these places, nor players to stop playing there. But I can't stress enough, that Slotocash's statement is the way that business SHOULD be done. And I would urge all of you to start pressuring all the other Rivals (via email, phone, livechat, message board postings, thru the affiliate program) to address the issue of lump sum payments as regards their progressives. 5K a month or whatever it is, is NOT acceptable. If someone wins a progressive, they need to be paid out in one payment. No wiggle room. So do your part, and let them know that it's not acceptable any other way.

EDIT: I wanted to add that in my previous posts where I offered an opinion/speculated on Rival ownership, I wish I had included a disclaimer re: SlotoCash. I never was sure about them...they never fit the mold. For that, I apologize to Sloto. As to the rest of the Rivals, pffffttt.