One Million Reels BC $204,167.54 + was hit today

[deltoid]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

 

[RobWin]

I agree Deltoid, it is past time for a Rival Rep to man up and come in here or the thread over at the GPWA and make some sort of statement regarding this mess!

 

[same_old]

they just dont get it do they everyone, 9/10 there is always a paper trail you can look into and get the real story of what's going on.

To me, it seems they may have wanted this money back for themselves and thought this promo is the way to go about it. It looks legit on the outside but when you get to the nutty middle is where the real issue lies.

These are issues we know about, I would cringe to think of all the inhouse stuff that goes on that we dont know about.

So this year we have had CAP do there scam, Joyland (playtech) do a runner on a jackpot winner , casino's changing there T&C's to make it basically a FU clause which we all know-means they can do what they please, and now this.. this is making the whole industry look really really bad IMHO.

Casinomeister is probably the most honest place there is at the moment when it comes to online gambling .
If the casino's involved people like us and affiliates on promo's and stuff im sure we could meet half way and get some really decent bonuses out there.

In a perfect world Casinomeiter wouldnt just be an online player advocate place, it would be CAP- it would be marketing- it would be Ecorga to certify places...that would make so much of a difference in the whole online group.

Casinomeister is the Sheriff in this wild west of online gambling.

 

[Rusty]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

Sorry Deltoid I think talk of this just being a silly mistake needs nipping in the bud.

You have to understand there was a reason that this promotion was given when it was.
There was reason that it could only be played on this particular progressive.
There was a reason you could only play on max bet.
There was a reason that there was a max cashout rule on this bonus.
And almost certainly there was a reason that jackpot happened to be hit by someone playing with this bonus coupon.

The Jackpot funds have been put back and that is right but lets not pretend this was just a naive mistake on Rivals part.
This really was as cynical as it appears.

 

[deltoid]

Rusty, I was trying to be generous.. but you're right, it just smells too much. Even if they didn't tamper with the reels (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that) the rest of the rules and how it was done was just completely wrong. They stepped in it for sure. Now I'm wondering how they can get out of it, I mean ya they can come out and apologize and say it was a badly designed promotion to say the least, but what can they actually do to get themselves out of this hole.

I suggest everyone who posted in this thread gets a cut of an equivalent Jackpot, we'll call it the Sorry We Tried To Rip Off The Progressive Fund.

 

[same_old]

Rusty, I was trying to be generous.. but you're right, it just smells too much. Even if they didn't tamper with the reels (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that) the rest of the rules and how it was done was just completely wrong. They stepped in it for sure. Now I'm wondering how they can get out of it, I mean ya they can come out and apologize and say it was a badly designed promotion to say the least, but what can they actually do to get themselves out of this hole.

I suggest everyone who posted in this thread gets a cut of an equivalent Jackpot, we'll call it the Sorry We Tried To Rip Off The Progressive Fund.

Meh, the AP scandal was a HUGE issue and AP just kept quite about it and peoplpe still play there and its like nothing has happned. the same will happen here

 

[deltoid]

AP scandal?

 

[same_old]

AP scandal?

Sorry Deltiod,

AP- Absolute Poker scandal.

This will bring you up to speed.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Jasminebed]

Call me cynical, but I do think Irish Luck was hoping to pull a fast one. Doing the right thing should have happened days ago. not in response to public exposure.

And not all that public exposure. MikeW will receive his $375 win, plus a little extra for some good publicity, the jackpot is rightfully returned and back to business as usual.

As the primary issue (return of jackpot funds) has now been resolved, this will wither on the vine. Even actively looking for info on this hit yielded few relevant results.

 

[chuchu59]

From the moment they sent an email to the first winner, they intended to reinstate the JP winnings otherwise why would they stop him from splashing out to gain comp points. I think they couldnt withstand the neg publicity on this issue. Who would play their progressives if again some casino comes along and offers the same deal. The real players will suffer. That said, it will still take some time before players come back and play the progressives in full force.

One other issue worth pondering is whether the other Rivals were involved or at least consented to Irish Luck doing this. If Rival casinos see others as competitors there is no way that they would agree to it. If, as Pinababy sees it, they are strapped for cash then it is highly possible that they would think of something else in the future to rip off players.

 

[chuchu59]

Well, even though I can't play their casinos I'm glad that they put the money back.

From reading this, a few points - there's no way that anyone playing with that coupon was entitled to the whole jackpot if they won - the only legit move is to pay out $375 and put the rest back in. That being said, what a stupid promotion, both for the players and the casino. I'm starting to think more than likely someone at rival was smoking a huge joint and came up with this, without thinking about the ramifications at all. Wouldn't be the first incredibly dumb promotion we've seen, would it.

Maybe some good can come out of this. Rival could realize that you don't mess with progressives - it's on them to pay them out quickly and in full to legitimate winners, and not allow max cash out bonuses on progressives. But we'll see if they'll man up to this!!

I doubt whether this was a dumb promotion. In fact, it is a calculated move. They figured that it was likely that a huge number of players will take up the offer and it would be of no cost to them because you are very unlikely to cash out the $375 if you dont hit the JP. If you did and you knew you were not entitled to the JP winnings, anyone in his right mind would try to salvage as many comps as possible. So, if the winner had kept the story to himself, he would have earned around $8K-10K in comps and Irish Luck will trumpet him as the Progressive winner with a tale to tell. Things, however, did not work out the way they intended but I am pretty sure they will come up with something more devious in future.

 

[Jasminebed]

I know that at one Rival casino I won from a free chip, and played on, expecting I would accumulate comp points, but I did not.

I've read of players being denied comps as well as bonus banned.

I think Mike would have earned far more in comps, but his account was "reset" so no longer an option, because another forum member at another forum pointed out to him he maybe could.

There would be players that once their interest was piqued, would try again for the progressive with their own funds. That would be a legitimate goal of such a promotion.

Deltoid, I'm not confident it was their intention from the beginning to return the jackpot. Otherwise, why did this not occur withing hours of a max cashout win winning the jackpot?

I think most questions have now been answered as fully as they will be on this issue.

But even the jackpot's return fails to restore my faith. What do they care about my opinion...I am in Canada and no longer a player (BTW, never a player at Irish Luck, but I was a Rival player).

 

[same_old]

I know that at one Rival casino I won from a free chip, and played on, expecting I would accumulate comp points, but I did not.

I've read of players being denied comps as well as bonus banned.

I think Mike would have earned far more in comps, but his account was "reset" so no longer an option, because another forum member at another forum pointed out to him he maybe could.

There would be players that once their interest was piqued, would try again for the progressive with their own funds. That would be a legitimate goal of such a promotion.

Deltoid, I'm not confident it was their intention from the beginning to return the jackpot. Otherwise, why did this not occur withing hours of a max cashout win winning the jackpot?

I think most questions have now been answered as fully as they will be on this issue.

But even the jackpot's return fails to restore my faith. What do they care about my opinion...I am in Canada and no longer a player (BTW, never a player at Irish Luck, but I was a Rival player).

Well the casino is named IRISH luck so no wonder they stuffed the promo up.


Well my Story with Rival is good, opened a acocunt with pantasia took the %100 welcome bonus deposited $50 and pulled out $600 and havent played at a rival since-this was over a year ago.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win. He will probably lose much more from that Vegas trip and finish this tosh on a minus.

He had done the wagering before the casino even contacted him, so basically they had no right to take the money out of his account as the promotion had been completed. They acted like a rogue casino just doing what the hell they wanted to mikes account. With out asking just to save there own skins and of course to make you lot happy lol. BTW the casino contacted him the next day! Biggest win at a rival casino and they took that long to contact the player_decisions decision= screw the player, well everyone at that casino meister forum seems to agree. machinegu

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win.

REALLY????,I think not. Notice the dates on I and II below and tell me that I was not concerned about MIKE WHO??? (Sorry Mike and this is not personal. It is about an on online gaming company with numerous on-going designed schemes that do not pass the litmus test):

I.
"From : NASHVEGAS
To : Casinomeister
Date : 2009-01-19 15:50
Title : ICE QUESTIONS???
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Hey Bryan,
Nice job on the awards.

Was curious if you are going to have a thread for ICE questions and
if so,I may have a question if the people at Rivals that actually call the shots attend.

Actually, Rivals has multiple issues that should be addressed but I have chosen to remain virtually (npi) silent.

That said, the issue for possibly ICE deals with the installment payments of the so-called progressive jackpots (and no transparency of such that I could locate) which according to your previous posts, I do not foresee our opinions conflicting,lol. I did answer Sdaddy's question on the forum last Saturday pursuant to this issue on the forum but that is it.

Then last week, I received a casino manager's ,iirc, promo email that not only mentions for marketing purposes my so called progressive jackpot win but offers progressive jackpot bonuses which I not only question the intent but believe as you have previously posted that so called progressive jackpot winner's winning's paid via installments (and in my case I am also living proof) will in most cases end up as a windfall ultimately for the casino and/or Rivals.

There are other major ethical issues with Rivals but I prefer to only bring the so-called progressive jackpot payment issues to your attention as I feel we will be of the same mindset.

I do not object to making you aware of the other, maybe, even more serious issues pursuant to Rivals, assuming I can establish or maybe restore my credibility which may have been sabotaged.

Thanks...."

SIDENOTE:FTR, the next day, 1-20-2009, on my own accord I closed my last Rival account without a word. Just did it but what should have been the end regardless of whether I was a Rival whale or not was not the end. They tried pulling outrageous bullshit thereafter. I will not hesitate to post all as it was beyond belief but I will surely be banned cause I A'INT, lol, paraphrasing if I post the exchanges ..... It is as rogue as it gets.

II
Excerpt from [post=277025]Here[/post] on 1-10-2009. Anybody seen a response after 120 days+, please let me know:

"Hello,
I still have yet to receive a direct answer to the direct inquiry that I asked Eric of C.S. approx.10 days ago in regards to progressive jackpots all being paid in installments to the subject winners of such as I have now been told (but I have no way of confirming so it may be hearsay). I understand that the funds are actually collected across the various Rival's casinos and consist
of funds contributed almost in full by it's participating patrons of the subject progressive slot.

Thus, my question was and still is what happens to the actual cash funds
that Rivals and/or the subject Rival's casino has in hand, in the event,
regardless of reason (can be many but not relevant to the question) the subject winners of the progressive jackpots loses some part and/or all of the already funded cash designated for the subject winners back to the subject Rival's casino as non-cash credits (not cash) while Rivals and/or the subject
Rival's casino withholds the subject progressive jackpot cash winnings from the subject winners during the reverse period and subsequent varying dependent number of weeks thereafter.

To date, I can only make certain assumptions (with the exception that Eric of Support did email a response stating that the cash is not returned to the Jackpot) so please be specific in your response to my actual inquiry above.
Best Regards,
Garry"

PEACE

 

[winbig]

I think a lot of you guys and gals are of your heads seriously! you think just because you have contributed to this progressive jackpot, that the money is still yours and should be returned to the pot, get real the second it goes in, its the casinos until some unlucky player hits it on a free chip with a max-cashout. My point being if mike played for comps he would have probably made more cash from this deal (of course playing on low variance slot he could of won straight-$$$$) your all putting your selves first over mikes win. He will probably lose much more from that Vegas trip and finish this tosh on a minus.

He had done the wagering before the casino even contacted him, so basically they had no right to take the money out of his account as the promotion had been completed. They acted like a rogue casino just doing what the hell they wanted to mikes account. With out asking just to save there own skins and of course to make you lot happy lol. BTW the casino contacted him the next day! Biggest win at a rival casino and they took that long to contact the player_decisions decision= screw the player, well everyone at that casino meister forum seems to agree. machinegu

You're missing the point:

The money was NOT Irish's Luck's. If it was a jackpot that was exclusive to their casino, then by all means, they could do with it what they please; but even then if they had pocketed the money, it would still be considered unethical and roguish.

However, the money was from a pooled jackpot fund across all 15+ Rival casinos.

Every player that has ever played this slot had a good reason to balk at what happened.

If you ask me, any money that the winner lost before this was brought to light should be replaced to the fund by either Rival or Irish Luck (more appropriately, the latter.)

Sure, it sucks for the winner, but that point is that Irish Luck had laid out the T&C which outlined the max cashout very clearly in both the email that was sent out, and in the cashier...he knew what he was getting into, and had assumed that he could keep playing on the money if he had won and racked up comps...

And besides, didn't Rival casinos put a stop to people earning comps on ND bonuses?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Although it is possible that the names were registered in 2006, half of those casinos were not open for business;

Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, Paradise 8 and DaVinci's Gold were.

ClubVegasUSA, Lion Slots & Irish Luck opened in July 2008

Absolute Slots opened in September 2008 - but I thought it was confirmed that this casino was owed by Lou & Warren of CAP infaminity...

Also, why isn't Mayan Fortune on the list?
This is owned & run by whoever owns Pantasia Casino and was definitely open for business long before the ones listed above. (Definitely in 2007, possibly in 2006...?)
I don't know for sure, but personally I don't think Rival do own all of these casinos. I know for a fact they don't own two of the others which aren't mentioned here, because I've met the actual owners in person!
I was also led to believe Irish Luck was owned by an Australian company.

It's all a bit strange...
KK

FWIW, the "MOTION TO INTRODUCE PROCEEDINGS" is dated October 24,2008 by the Plaintiff's counsel.

 

[Casino City]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival. This whole issue surrounding winning progressive jackpots with free spins paid for by a casino is quite a mess. Based on what I see, and I know a fair amount from behind the scenes, there are likely no real winners here in the grander scheme of things. Messes like this are a net loss for the industry.

Michael

 

[winbig]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival. This whole issue surrounding winning progressive jackpots with free spins paid for by a casino is quite a mess. Based on what I see, and I know a fair amount from behind the scenes, there are likely no real winners here in the grander scheme of things. Messes like this are a net loss for the industry.

Michael

Yes...everyone loses in this case...not just the casino or players..

But, tell us the whole 'behind the scenes' story and let us know wtf IL's true intentions were

 

[LOOKAWAY]

You're missing the point:

The money was NOT Irish's Luck's. If it was a jackpot that was exclusive to their casino, then by all means, they could do with it what they please; but even then if they had pocketed the money, it would still be considered unethical and roguish.

However, the money was from a pooled jackpot fund across all 15+ Rival casinos.

Every player that has ever played this slot had a good reason to balk at what happened.

If you ask me, any money that the winner lost before this was brought to light should be replaced to the fund by either Rival or Irish Luck (more appropriately, the latter.)

Sure, it sucks for the winner, but that point is that Irish Luck had laid out the T&C which outlined the max cashout very clearly in both the email that was sent out, and in the cashier...he knew what he was getting into, and had assumed that he could keep playing on the money if he had won and racked up comps...

And besides, didn't Rival casinos put a stop to people earning comps on ND bonuses?

Actually rob Irish luck paid for Mikes 10 free spins like casino city mentions, then Mike owns this JP for comp point conversion and Irish luck casino is in the shit house, Then what Irish luck should of done is returned the JP back to the progressive slot and left mikes balance in place for him to either just cash-out the $375 and call it a day or play his balance down to $412.50 then cash-out, case solved. So why all this hassle? A: they don't want mike to walk away with up to $20k cash of a free chip with a $375 max cash-out even if they have goofed up.

Maybe Mike also contributed to this JP with his own money like a lot of other players, did you think of that.

I reckon Mike will walk away with about $5k worth off prizes including the Las Vegas trip. (take in mind Irish luck is not paying for casino hotel accommodation to)

Nash I goofed up, and not to just you. Very sloppy on my part, That reply was only targeted on the members who were pushing for the JP just to be taken of mike (stolen) like it was.

 

[BingoT]

After reading around the Internet on this Irish Luck thing I like to know who will drop them? Or does that nasty word get in your way.I know I did and will never play at Irish Luck again.
You see many views on them that you don't see here.
All this stuff & my friend Mallorca & bb made my mind up about this whole thing.
I like to know your views about why you will still promote them? or Play at Irish Luck.
Thank You

I am just Mad about how all this took place.
Maybe time will mend all this and I will try it again.

 

[chuchu59]

Bugger,

Promoting them is one thing. Playing is another. If these guys gave me a free chip I will definitely play. Nothing better than robbing the rogues. Asking me to deposit even $5 is another thing.

It's great to hear you arent promoting them now. Meanwhile, I hope to know the inside story as to why there were no outcries from the other Rival casinos though. A conspiracy?

 

[BingoT]

Thanks you Bugger too.
I just want to hear the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.
This is all too crazy and you have to think what all other casino's do on the side lines that no one's hears about.
Because they are all Perfect yeah right.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The legal issues will just have to play out but ftr I joined GPWA in order to ask Mr. Corfman one question. He did reply. I have my own reasons to believe there is merit to the litigation but for now I am nothing more than a Monday morning quarterback with a great running back.

More importantly, regardless this is not just an Irish Luck issue. Maybe someone can find out where the $62,000.00+ in cash I never received is on my "so called" $67,000.00+ progressive jackpot win in late December 2008.

Please understand, I take full responsibilty for losing the non-cash credits back.

That said, I then strongly felt my lost non-cash credits thereafter should be restored to the progressive jackpot with the actual supposed cash in hand that was never disbursed. DID NOT HAPPEN and someone is or will be due this and perhaps other subject cash (See Below) as I have no idea if the couple subsequent winner's to date may have done as I. IS THE ABOVE COURSE OF ACTIONS BY RIVAL NOT THEFT FROM THE PLAYER WITH INTENT???

FYI:

Here is a copy of your recent chat with casino support.
General Info
Chat start time Dec 30, 2008 7:54:29 AM EST
Chat end time Dec 30, 2008 8:17:49 AM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:23:20
Operator Eric

Chat Transcript
info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. You are currently placed in queue number 2. The average wait is 39seconds. An operator will be with you shortly.
DELETED THE REPETIVE BLAH<BLAH<BLAH!!

info: You are now chatting with 'Eric'

Eric: Welcome to thisisvegas Live Support. How may I assist you?
you: NASH....xxxxxxxxxxxxx....go ahead and reverse the remaining $9K....no further comments but I have a question, when a person wins a progressive based on the play across casinos and the others players wagers, then wants weeks to pay the progressive, the player loses it all back due to perfect storm of the casino per se, then where does the original progressive win money that never really got paid go???
Eric: Hello Mr.XXXXXXXX, let me read that question
you: correction="then the casino wants weeks to pay the progressive"
Eric: I'm not sure I'm understanding it 100% but basically if the win on a progressive is reversed you are wondering if it returns back to the progressive jackpot?
you: Is that your answer as my question is clear
Eric: well I cannot say for sure, that is a very good question, would you mind me having management check for you? Also keep in mind that due to the holidays that withdrawals took a bit longer then usual
you: I understand about the holidays, the perfect storm is very complicated issue but always seems to be well timed...anyway I will sail on
Eric: I see, thank you for understanding, You will be emailed on the question and I will reverse 9k of your withdrawals if you still wish to and email you back right after this chat. is that ok?
you: Yes sir,ty
Eric:You are very welcome.
Eric: I wish some Happy Holidays to you!
you: The same from Tennessee
Eric: Thank you very much!
Eric: The withdrawals have just been reversed
Eric: the rest is expected to finish very soon by the looks of it
you: TY..Goodbye
Eric: You are very welcome.


The follow up email from Eric on 12-30-2008:

Dear GARRY,
Following up on your chat with live help earlier.

Once the Progressive Jackpot is won the fund are the players (unless wagering is still required for a particular bonus).

So if no restrictions are left the winnings can be cashed out and the normal Progressive Jackpot will start to accumulate again.

No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win.

Thank you for understanding and Happy Holidays!

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely,

Eric
thisisvegas Customer Service

SIDENOTES:
1."(unless wagering is still required for a particular bonus)"-
2."no restrictions"-oxymoron,yes???
3.[/B]"cashed out"=
*by no means paid
**expect stalling with sincere apologies, a payment periodically and be sure and check other forums so you will know you are not a priority as I won late on 12-21-2008
***it took a a day or two to be told how I was supposed to be paid, and iirc there is a CAP thread with a 12-24-08 post by my Bud addressing concerned affiliates who had not been paid via NT and MB, no worries though-lol
****afaic my first installment was to be $20K-got $5K but I suppose this may have been semantics and not an issue but may be for others
*****after you "cashed out" you can reverse at anytime over the course weeks, months or longer until you are paid in full-anybody wanna make a bet?
****** Sorry, to say but Mike may be in a better position with the current situation just mentioned by Lookaway than if he won all-I guess that depends on the individual and casino and/or company
4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

 

[spearmaster]

4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

This is correct. The player (you) took the action of your own accord - you could've cashed the entire amount, or you could've played the funds back - but in this case money does not go back to the progressive jackpot unless of course you are playing that particular jackpot!

Obviously, if a player loses a jackpot back to the casino, the casino is entitled to the funds, just as if the player had deposited real money.