One Million Reels BC $204,167.54 + was hit today

[BingoT]

Boycott Irish Luck 101% if the money is not put back where it should be.
I am with KK on this as well.
This all Sucks Irish Luck
I think they should change the name to Irish F---- or Irish Crap or even Irish Scam.
This is in poor taste Irish Luck.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I would think they ran it by Rival management before running the promotion.

Would have been real hard not to. The following attached below is not hard to understand and is public record.

I did not need to omit the 4 defendant's names and RobRival's name but since I know Jet has refrained for whatever reason (I have an idea why after reading several legal articles/opinions by Canadian gaming attorney Michael Lipton) I have refrained also .

FTR, I became aware of the following in January 2009 immediately after and I suppose ironically had expressed my concern to CM on....., well I'll just post it in another post as it foreshadows exactly what has occurred.

 

[chuchu59]

From the looks of things, I think they are going to reinstate the JP and maybe subtract the $1,375 from the total. By not allowing the player to accumulate comp points from the $215K, they are removing any legitimacy they thought they had by forcing the player to continue wagering bet max at this slot till bust. If they had wanted to keep the dough they would have allowed the player to continue spinning.

I feel that the best way forward would be to return half of the JP winnings back to the pot and the other half to the second winner provided he didnt hit the JP thru Irish Luck's free chip.

 

[1819]

wow... very simply put the player does not deserve anything more than the max cashout. horrific promotion but quite clear. rival should simply not pay irish luck. the money is for jackpot payouts. there is no jackpot to pay out. put the money back in the progessive till.

 

[hitobito2005]

I feel that the best way forward would be to return half of the JP winnings back to the pot and the other half to the second winner provided he didnt hit the JP thru Irish Luck's free chip.

I think the money should go 100% back into the jackpot, apart from the $375 the player is untitled to under the rules of the promotion. I see no reason why it should go to the second winner. They placed a bet knowing the jackpot was at $6k or whatever it was and won it, they are not relevant to this issue. In any case, why give them half? Who decides what is fair? Why not 30/70 or 60/40? The only fair thing to do would be to put it all back into the pot.

By the sounds of things they are trying to fob off the winner with a couple of comparatively very low value gifts while the casino keeps all the jackpot money, which is some of the worst casino behaviour i've ever seen!

They should put it all back in the pot before they do anything, after which they might choose to throw some extra promotions/free money to both the first and second winner to keep their custom.

 

[BingoT]

It would be great for anyone from Rival to come in here and tell us all on what is going on with this.
This is nothing to over look.

It's the Players money we are talking about not Irish Luck's
Tell us where the money is going so we all can decide what the next step is................
All I can say is that it sucks that Irish Luck is giving the other good Rival Casino's a bad name.
It's just dirty & it sucks.

 

[slotheadlizard]

Bingo T

Thanks for all this info. Your research and insight into this matter is appreciated!

 

[Pinababy69]

So 27,000 people took part in the bonus offer, which is equivalent to 270,000 spins on the slot. I don't know how frequently this jackpot hits but 270k spins would probably give a fair chance of it being won by someone on the $375 max cashout bonus. They knew exactly what they were doing

Obviously they knew exactly what they were doing and have been caught Red handed.

Apparently the Jackpot was running for 4 Months before it was hit. I dare say there were over a Billion spins in this time.

Without knowing the true odds of triggering the Jackpot though we can not really know how likely or unlikely it was that the Jackpot was won on the promotion.

I would bet a pound to a pinch of pig shit though that the weighting for the Jackpot symbol was not the same as it was at launch.

It is actually far more likely that the Jackpot was hit twice because the weighting was changed than because of 270,000 spins being played, still it can't be proved.

On the other hand, this casino took a huge risk - they would have had to pay into the jackpot for every dollar wagered with their bonus

No risk to the casino at all if they were confident that the jackpot would be hit.

Rusty, I want you to get out your datebook and a pen, and take a notation. Oh, and sit down.

After thinking about this since yesterday, I'm left with no alternative but to agree with your opinion re: weighting and fidgeting with the software...at least as far as Rival goes. Something I had overlooked yesterday was that this slot is a 3 reeler, and has it not already been proven/admitted that weighting does exist in 3 reel slot machines? I think even Spear admitted to that in the other thread that we were discussing it in (and posted a link to an article). The debate now is moreso as to whether it happens with the video slots as well right?

I do believe in coincidence, but what I don't believe in....is the exact SAME occurrence taking place TWICE within a few hours of each other, when it hadn't happened in four months previous. Somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300,000 spins triggering a jackpot twice in the same day, that hadn't previously been triggered once over a four month period, with perhaps millions (or more) of spins spread out over how many casinos? Then on the one day that the casino just "happens" to run a promo that caps the payout, BOOM....two hits back to back, at least one of them at that very casino. I'm not buying it, I can't. I'm no math head, but I do have common sense and some logical sense, and it's beyond the realm of comprehension to me. As Rusty said, we have no "definitive" proof, so we can't dwell on that aspect of it. But I have more than enough proof/facts for my own mind, and I wouldn't go near a Rival casino/software, if they were the last provider on Earth. End of story.

This is not the case of a player playing on a progressive with an ordinary promotion, but one specifically designated for a game with a huge jackpot. Irish Luck knew that they would not have to pay the jackpot winner, but would receive the funds from Rival anyway.

If you don't think Rival had any knowledge of this promotion then think again, really.

If RIVAL is going along with this crap. They do need to be all rogues, either that player gets every last dime of the jackpot and they eat crow, because this was there screw up and they are being called on it, or...Every single dime of "PLAYERS" money goes back in the pot and IRISH LUCK gets fined and shut down by RIVAL for Corruption.

I would think they ran it by Rival management before running the promotion.

If this is the final settlement, and the balance of the $215,000 is not paid to the player who hit the second JP (or, if that was on a free chip too, put back in the pot) I am blacklisting Irish Luck forever, and I call upon all other affiliates to do the same.

Shame on you Irish Luck
KK

All I can say is that it sucks that Irish Luck is giving the other good Rival Casino's a bad name.

I'm not sure if everyone read the snippet of that legal document that Nashvegas posted, but IRISH LUCK IS RIVAL, AND RIVAL IS IRISH LUCK.

The four defendants named in that lawsuit (known collectively as Rival Gaming/Black Chip), own and operate Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, ClubVegasUSA, Irish Luck, Lion Slots, Absolute Slots, Paradise 8and DaVinci's Gold. The four owners have full decision making authority.


And then paragraph 17:

All of the corporations are, in reality, alter egos of the Individual Defendants in order to disguise the Individual Defendants ownership of the casinos.

So, for those of you who are thinking that this was a promo devised by the owners/managers of Irish Luck....Irish Luck is Rival Gaming. Rival came up with this promo. They are all one and the same company....insofar at least as those casinos listed above. That legal document refers to a contract that was executed in April of 2006, which I suspect is why there are only nine casinos listed, as opposed to the full stable that exists now. Maybe someone who is familiar with all the Rival casinos can verify if those nine were the only ones in existence in April of 2006. That's three years ago, and many have been added since then....but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the ownership is the same for all of them.

To say that Irish Luck is giving the other "good" Rival casinos a bad name is not a fair statement. They are all the same monster.....sort of like an octopus with 20 arms, each arm representing a different casino. How can you say that Irish Luck is rogue, yet continue to promote the others, when it's all the same thing? Same owners, who have the final say when it comes to marketing decisions? They just happened to select the Irish Luck division to run this promo. They could just as easily have run it at any of their other dozen or more properties.

It's hard to say what will happen with the pending lawsuit against them. On the surface, it certainly doesn't appear frivolous. On the contrary, it appears quite well founded and backed up by documentation. They are being sued for $460,000 and change. IF they do not return this $215,000 to the jackpot where it belongs....gee, what a nice chunk of change that could be used towards settlement. Of course, it's all just coincidence.

I smell a roguing coming up...

If they are allowed to get away with this, it will set a precedent for other operators to do the same thing by offering free spins on progressives, hoping that some player will get lucky and win, and they'll get to keep the money minus whatever they have to pay to reseed the jackpot.

I sincerely hope you're right about that Spear. I can only echo what many have said here...in that the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. One of the absolute worst transgressions I have seen by any software provider/casino/company. It ranks right up there with Sylvia's situation with Playtech, with the JPF mess, the English Harbour scandal. Throw em in the pit where they belong. As upset as I was over the Jackpot Factory thing, once all was said and done...I was left with the feeling that they were just stupid. Yes, it was a marketing "ploy" designed to manipulate the SERP's, and it was a planned campaign.....but it was more stupidity than evil intentions. The powers that be at Rival are just pure sleaze....don't know how else to describe them. They PLANNED this, and coupled with the fact that, in my own mind, they possibly tinkered with the software to achieve their goal....I'm sick.

 

[spearmaster]

I sincerely hope you're right about that Spear. I can only echo what many have said here...in that the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. One of the absolute worst transgressions I have seen by any software provider/casino/company. It ranks right up there with Sylvia's situation with Playtech, with the JPF mess, the English Harbour scandal. Throw em in the pit where they belong. As upset as I was over the Jackpot Factory thing, once all was said and done...I was left with the feeling that they were just stupid. Yes, it was a marketing "ploy" designed to manipulate the SERP's, and it was a planned campaign.....but it was more stupidity than evil intentions. The powers that be at Rival are just pure sleaze....don't know how else to describe them. They PLANNED this, and coupled with the fact that, in my own mind, they possibly tinkered with the software to achieve their goal....I'm sick.

May I remind you that the EH issue was due to a programming error, and everyone was compensated, and that I inspected the code in question and stated my opinion that it was clearly unintended? It may well be that many people still don't believe it - but that was my professional opinion as a programmer and naturally it is disappointing that people cannot take my word at face value.

I will agree with the other two examples though. I cannot comment further on Rival at the moment but this situation does need to be resolved.

 

[chuchu59]

Hi, here is an update from the other forum. I do hope the extra cash prize is at least around the $14k mark.

And I hate the way the casino manager says I am going to clear your balance even if you haven't cleared the bonus, when he knows Mike has cleared the bonus. Not giving mike any choice what so ever with his balance.

.................................................................................................

I have and update for you guys, here is the e-mail,

Hi Mike



My name is Tristan Lange. I'm the casino manager at Irish Luck.



Congratulations on your win!



Even though you missed out on the big win, wed still like to give you some other prizes.



We are going to issue you your win of $375 without the need for play through if it hasnt been completed.



You can keep all current comp points.



We are going to give you $1000 into your account so that you may either play or withdraw the money.
There will be no wagering requirements and NO LIMITS to your win

I would possibly suggest you play slots as you seem to have the Midas touch



BTW This $1000 will not have a negative effect on your affiliate as we will pay him an extra $1000 to compensate.



Please know how grateful we are to have you play with us and all the above is 100% confirmed to go
ahead as long as Rival sort out the payment.



Extra Prizes



Gary and I have been talking and we have a great idea, we would love to send you and a friend to Atlantic City or over to
The Mohegan Sun In Connecticut with a bit of spending money for a weekend away...



- How does that sound?



Also another idea we had was to enter you into a poker tournament:

I have quite a few colleagues and friends in the poker industry, so well be able to find something very suitable out for you.



- When is a good time of the year for you to travel?

- Is there any particular tournament youd like to enter?





About the win itself:

- If you can tell us your thoughts about the win, and how you felt when
you saw the jackpot come up on the screen, that would be fantastic.



Also, please send your screenshots over, it's not often we get to see the progressives hit the jackpot



Gary tells me that youve said youre happy to help us with some promotional material about the win thanks so much for that!

Its greatly appreciated.



I'll contact you about that within a week. I'll also keep it simple, so it's not a drag for you.



Your account:

Just to confirm, Im going to reset it today (manually complete the promotion) today.

If you see your balance suddenly disappear, dont panic! Well get some money into your account shortly.



Again Mike, welcome to the family. We're glad to have you play with us and wish you all the luck at the casino



All the best!



Regards,

Tristan.

trying to keep ya updated as this go's.. Boris3073 when you read this e-mail you'll see i was listen to you my friend, thank you so much, will keep you guys up todate as this keeps going...

lookaway,

Is it possible to know the length of time that elapsed between the winning of the JP and the receipt of the casino's email.

 

[RobWin]

I smell a roguing coming up...

If they are allowed to get away with this, it will set a precedent for other operators to do the same thing by offering free spins on progressives, hoping that some player will get lucky and win, and they'll get to keep the money minus whatever they have to pay to reseed the jackpot.

@ Everyone....your thoughts please regarding my question below....

I'm still trying to wrap my thoughts around this whole issue here but still I am having trouble seeing as how this Rival issue is any different at all to the Playtech issue regarding Sylvia, if some of the other members here feel as though Rival should be "Rogued" for this particular display of absolute insanity then why should "Playtech" also not be Rogued?

 

[hitobito2005]

@ Everyone....your thoughts please regarding my question below....

I'm still trying to wrap my thoughts around this whole issue here but still I am having trouble seeing as how this Rival issue is any different at all to the Playtech issue regarding Sylvia, if some of the other members here feel as though Rival should be "Rogued" for this particular display of absolute insanity then why should "Playtech" also not be Rogued?

It is a bit different. It sounds likely that Rival owns and controls all the Rival-powered casinos, they are the same entity. So it makes no sense to "rogue" Irish Luck on its own when in reality it does not exist as an individual entity.

Playtech is a software providor and does not own or control all casinos which use it's software. If it's proven that Playtech has been involved in dodgy dealings regarding Joyland and the jackpot confiscation then perhaps they should be rogued. However, this does not mean players are at risk if they play at reputable casinos using Playtech software.

 

[jetset]

Posts 52 and 58 above remind us all that there are serious (and at present untrialed) allegations out there regarding the ownership of certain Rival casinos, including Irish Luck.

The plaintiff in that case, which was still pending in the Quebec Supreme Court last I heard, was a marketing company working for Rival et al, so one presumes that their information contained in the court documents is correct and disclosed in good faith.

If Rival and its corporate offshoots are the owners of Irish Luck as is claimed in the court documents, it adds another layer (and a sinister one at that) of duplicity to this affair imo.

And I have to agree with RobWin - there are similarities with the Playtech-Joyland issue, where a 41 percent shareholder in Playtech was allegedly connected through a Trust arrangement with the company that actually owned Joyland.

 

[lots0]

I would like to take a moment to remind the management of Rival and the other online casinos... That it is now only a matter of time until there is regulation in America... Soon they will have to file for LICENSES...
and according to what I have read they will have to pass background checks and there will be public input on the registrants.

It would be in Rival's own best interest to clear this up quickly and in a transparent way... Or a future License to operate in the USA may be unattainable for them.

 

[RobWin]

It is a bit different. It sounds likely that Rival owns and controls all the Rival-powered casinos, they are the same entity. So it makes no sense to "rogue" Irish Luck on its own when in reality it does not exist as an individual entity.

Playtech is a software providor and does not own or control all casinos which use it's software. If it's proven that Playtech has been involved in dodgy dealings regarding Joyland and the jackpot confiscation then perhaps they should be rogued. However, this does not mean players are at risk if they play at reputable casinos using Playtech software.

True, but you also have to seriously consider that Playtech has one huge controlling shareholder named Teddy Sagi who owns 41.1 percent of Playtech the company. Old / Expired Link Just think of how many proxy votes he also has available to him when policy and issues are voted on there.

 

[KasinoKing]

The four defendants named in that lawsuit (known collectively as Rival Gaming/Black Chip), own and operate Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, ClubVegasUSA, Irish Luck, Lion Slots, Absolute Slots, Paradise 8and DaVinci's Gold. The four owners have full decision making authority.


That legal document refers to a contract that was executed in April of 2006, which I suspect is why there are only nine casinos listed, as opposed to the full stable that exists now. Maybe someone who is familiar with all the Rival casinos can verify if those nine were the only ones in existence in April of 2006. That's three years ago, and many have been added since then....but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the ownership is the same for all of them.

Although it is possible that the names were registered in 2006, half of those casinos were not open for business;

Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, Paradise 8 and DaVinci's Gold were.

ClubVegasUSA, Lion Slots & Irish Luck opened in July 2008

Absolute Slots opened in September 2008 - but I thought it was confirmed that this casino was owed by Lou & Warren of CAP infaminity...

Also, why isn't Mayan Fortune on the list?
This is owned & run by whoever owns Pantasia Casino and was definitely open for business long before the ones listed above. (Definitely in 2007, possibly in 2006...?)

I don't know for sure, but personally I don't think Rival do own all of these casinos. I know for a fact they don't own two of the others which aren't mentioned here, because I've met the actual owners in person!
I was also led to believe Irish Luck was owned by an Australian company.

It's all a bit strange...
KK

 

[refre]

As liquuid_fusion mentioned: When talking about "good" or "bad" Rival casinos, whether or not Irish Luck took a big risk offering this kind of promotion (paying a percentage of bets into the pool) and if they should be rogued, lets not forget...

Bonne Chance is the parent company of Silverstone Overseas Limited, which owns and operates a number of e-commerce websites, some of which are listed below.

If you see a charge on your credit card statement from Bonne Chance and have questions about the transaction then we suggest you use the contact information for the respective site, listed below.

www.cocoacasino.com - [email protected]
www.paradise8.com - [email protected]
www.davincisgold.com - [email protected]
www.thisisvegas.com - [email protected]
www.pantasia.com - [email protected]
www.slotsoffortune.com - [email protected]
www.mayanfortune.com - [email protected]
www.superiorcasino.com - [email protected]
www.simonsayscasino.com - [email protected]
www.lionslots.com - [email protected]
www.clubvegasusa.com - [email protected]
www.vegasskycasino.com - [email protected]
www.absoluteslots.com - [email protected]
www.rockbet.com - [email protected]
www.goldrockcasino.com - [email protected]
www.vegasregalcasino.com - [email protected]
www.irishluckcasino.com - [email protected]

Just to clarify

Freddy

 

[jetset]

This is why it is important to note that until proof of these allegations is provided by the plaintiff, presumably in court, it remains open to question.

But on the face of it I very much doubt that T2 Marketing - the plaintiff in the case discussed above - would make such serious and potentially injurious claims were they not convinced that this was fact, and provable at least in part by statements and documents from the Rival people themselves obtained in the course of the relationship with T.2.

And Silverstone - which is based in Folkeston, UK I think - could be part of an elaborate smokescreen.

 

[Tengil]

If the whole wagering was meant to be done on this slot then we get a much higher number of bets.

If the quoted 27000 participants is true then we get a total starting bankroll of 1012500. To keep it simple lets just say 1 million. Even if the slot would have a payout percentage of 80 we would get 5 million in total wagering.
5000000/3,75= 1333333 bets.

 

[Jasminebed]

Joyland Casino was already in the rogue pit when SylviaP hit her jackpot. And the casino was willing to conform with its policy of 9K per month. SylviaP signed on for these terms. Although the casino's subsequent offers of increased monthly payments in exchange for continued play was dodgy, its closing of SylviaP's account was outrageous and I'm sure terrifying for Sylvia. But I do feel the final sum received by the player was a reasonable lump sum payment of a 39 year monthly payment plan.

Mike took a free chip. If they had just paid him $375 and returned the jackpot to the pot, I'd have felt the same way, but thought it was a pretty crummy promotion.

If Irish Luck had returned the bonus to the pot, paid the player his legitimate $375 win, tossed him an extra grand to show how nice Irish Luck is and to advertise that you too could hit this fantastic progressive...if only he had been playing with a bonus free deposit, I'd have no problem with their handling of it.

Instead, I think that this promotion was designed so that Irish Luck (and therefore Rival) would find a means to keep the funds. If the weighting of the wheels was changed, do you think that Rival issued this same "update" to the Rival powered casinos NOT owned by the owners of Rival software?

The player's account has now been "reset", and he will not have the opportunity to generate comps with the jackpot as previously speculated. The offer now being presented by Irish Luck is much less favourable to the player, but still superior to a win of $375.00.

Clearly this jackpot win is in no way being paid to the player, so MUST be returned to the jackpot fund. Even if Irish Luck does this, I would still harbour doubts that this was truly their intention, and perhaps some scrutiny forced them to change their original plan.

I have my reservations about Irish Luck having made an appropriate payment from the free chip play to the jackpot pool as well, but this is sheer speculation on my part, possibly because of the questionable nature of the whole promotion. But I in no way want to say anything libelous here and violate the forum rules, and I am just conjecturing.

I had been missing Rival games, but I no longer believe in fairness there. I'm beginning to think that Canadian players may have been banned since we might have access to legal redress in Canada for these Canadian owned and operated companies, and contracts entered into would be enforceable under the jurisdiction of both parties.

 

[Rusty]

Just One more thing that has not been mentioned, just in case there is still anyone out there who does not believe this was all premeditated.

Have you ever seen a Free spin bonus that makes you play max bet before?
Oh and to win the Jackpot you have to be bet max coins, fancy that.

As far as the weighting being changed as far as I can tell it is not even against their T&C's.
They do not stipulate how much of your stake goes toward the jackpot or what the probability of winning the jackpot are let alone whether the probability of outcome remains the same throughout the game.

I know I keep banging this drum but this is all basic information that should be available to the player under even the most basic regulations.
There is a reason for that.

A very loose calculation based on 1c going to the Jackpot total for each max coin bet and the start balance being $10,000 gives us,

(204k-10k) $194000/.01c = 19 Million spins.

That is pure supposition on my part but it may well be a conservative estimate because it is based on every spin being played at max bet ($3.75)

Rival could help us determine the true odds of the Jackpot being hit Twice in such a short period by giving us the relevant details.

This is very importnat because it really does bring up valid questions about whether the software was tampered with or even if it is rigged from the outset.

Look at this way,
A progressive goes many Millions of spins without hitting when One bright Day out of the Blue the Casino throws out a promotion.
This promotion seems very generous but forces you to play ONE slot only the progressive, not only that but they also force you to play on Max bet the only way the Jackpot can be won. Then they stick a max cashout rule on bonus meaning that if the jackpot is won they get to steal all that lovely loot.
Then just by coincidence a slot that has not hit for Millions of spins not only hits but it is on the same Day as the bonus is released and on someone playing the 10 Free spin bonus.

They then ask the winning (losing) player to do a promo and offer to treat him to $1000 of the $204,000 they intend to steal.

Is it April 1st?
What am I missing?
It is like an A to Z of rogueism and criminal behaviour all wrapped up in One putrefying bundle.

I am not going to post in this thread again unless something positive happens.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

This is why it is important to note that until proof of these allegations is provided by the plaintiff, presumably in court, it remains open to question.

But on the face of it I very much doubt that T2 Marketing - the plaintiff in the case discussed above - would make such serious and potentially injurious claims were they not convinced that this was fact, and provable at least in part by statements and documents from the Rival people themselves obtained in the course of the relationship with T.2.

And Silverstone - which is based in Folkeston, UK I think - could be part of an elaborate smokescreen.

Have you seen the exhibits???? Just curious......May want to practice your French, lol , as it took hours and persistence with the folks in Montreal

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Joyland Casino was already in the rogue pit when SylviaP hit her jackpot. And the casino was willing to conform with its policy of 9K per month. SylviaP signed on for these terms. Although the casino's subsequent offers of increased monthly payments in exchange for continued play was dodgy, its closing of SylviaP's account was outrageous and I'm sure terrifying for Sylvia. But I do feel the final sum received by the player was a reasonable lump sum payment of a 39 year monthly payment plan.

Mike took a free chip. If they had just paid him $375 and returned the jackpot to the pot, I'd have felt the same way, but thought it was a pretty crummy promotion.

If Irish Luck had returned the bonus to the pot, paid the player his legitimate $375 win, tossed him an extra grand to show how nice Irish Luck is and to advertise that you too could hit this fantastic progressive...if only he had been playing with a bonus free deposit, I'd have no problem with their handling of it.

Instead, I think that this promotion was designed so that Irish Luck (and therefore Rival) would find a means to keep the funds. If the weighting of the wheels was changed, do you think that Rival issued this same "update" to the Rival powered casinos NOT owned by the owners of Rival software?

The player's account has now been "reset", and he will not have the opportunity to generate comps with the jackpot as previously speculated. The offer now being presented by Irish Luck is much less favourable to the player, but still superior to a win of $375.00.

Clearly this jackpot win is in no way being paid to the player, so MUST be returned to the jackpot fund. Even if Irish Luck does this, I would still harbour doubts that this was truly their intention, and perhaps some scrutiny forced them to change their original plan.

I have my reservations about Irish Luck having made an appropriate payment from the free chip play to the jackpot pool as well, but this is sheer speculation on my part, possibly because of the questionable nature of the whole promotion. But I in no way want to say anything libelous here and violate the forum rules, and I am just conjecturing.

I had been missing Rival games, but I no longer believe in fairness there. I'm beginning to think that Canadian players may have been banned since we might have access to legal redress in Canada for these Canadian owned and operated countries, and contracts entered into would be enforceable under the jurisdiction of both parties.

This is not an isolated incident by any means.

I am not going to highjack this thread but for example they covered up a major Blackjack software malfunction where the HA can not even be determined. It probably existed from Day 1 until they corrected it in late October 2008 but denied the correction (aka existence of the malfunction per se) in order to not have to make the players whole. More details and a mountain of proof later but I normally do not double down on a pair of Aces,etc. HINT

 

[kmay87]

Just to chip in here, does anyone else find it rather patronising that the casino has asked for a statement from Mike about how he felt when he saw the jackpot hit?

What's he going to say..."Well I hit a 200k plus jackpot but I'm only going to see a grand, so it's not going to change my life."

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but I presume he was aware that he wouldn't be able to cash it out, so how can they expect him to boast about his win? To me, that's suggesting they want to pass this off as a legit win, otherwise if this was being returned to the pool there would be no winner, and thus no winner's statement.

Sometimes I wonder how corrupt casinos would be if it wasn't for forums such as this.

 

[slotsextra]

I do not understand the problem here what is wrong with this cool promotion from Irishluckcasino ? It is a good way to get some free cash................from the jackpots with some help from our valued players transferred to ILC........another blow to the gaming industry and sadly the bad PR that will affect both player and affiliate minds. I am going to blacklist this place and feed it to the dogs, my G. what a bad move and what kind of attitude they must have to do this. Thank G. there are some places to stop this kind of faul play.

 

[BingoT]

Well least we know they are here today.(IrishLuckCasino)
Please join in this thread I started that went crazy.
I was happy at first knowing someone hit it.
But after knowing about this crazy crappy fantastic progressive offer you made.And I never got that email but I really don't care anyways.
This thread will go back and forth until we hear the words from anyone form Rival to step in to tell us all.
Put the cash back in to the jackpot where it should go.
End of story.


IrishLuckCasino 07:25PM
Modifying Options

 

[bb28]

Well least we know they are here today.(IrishLuckCasino)
Please join in this thread I started that went crazy.
I was happy at first knowing someone hit it.
But after knowing about this crazy crappy fantastic progressive offer you made.And I never got that email but I really don't care anyways.
This thread will go back and forth until we hear the words from anyone form Rival to step in to tell us all.
Put the cash back in to the jackpot where it should go.
End of story.


IrishLuckCasino 07:25PM
Modifying Options

Does this mean you are going to stop promoting them?

BTW.....I've been following this thread all morning with a lot of interest and I don't really have anything to add other than give a to Pina and others...Pina said it so well.

I really don't see any way that Rival can clean this mess up, this thread and the Playtech thread has just left me so disgusted and bummed out that I'm done with playing online.

 

[KasinoKing]

Just One more thing that has not been mentioned, just in case there is still anyone out there who does not believe this was all premeditated.

Have you ever seen a Free spin bonus that makes you play max bet before?

Yes I have.
It was either 32Red or Ladbrokes (or both?) who did a similar promo for Mega Moolah once where the condition of receiving the bonus was that you had to spin at max bets.
Of course, there was no crazy max cash-out rule.

KK

 

[BingoT]

I do have this on my mind.
I will soon I think & know.
If this don't get fixed by Friday or if others say they will do it now I will do it sooner than Friday.
Will someone make a poll on this and make the deadline on a time Friday.
Or I just might say &%^% it and do it anyways because for the past few weeks I heard crap about them by a player that is a member here.

 

[RobWin]

Does this mean you are going to stop promoting them?

BTW.....I've been following this thread all morning with a lot of interest and I don't really have anything to add other than give a to Pina and others...Pina said it so well.

I really don't see any way that Rival can clean this mess up, this thread and the Playtech thread has just left me so disgusted and bummed out that I'm done with playing online.

BB, are you no longer an active affiliate? I still see your name in green but I was not quite sure.

 

[kmay87]

Yes I have.
It was either 32Red or Ladbrokes (or both?) who did a similar promo for Mega Moolah once where the condition of receiving the bonus was that you had to spin at max bets.
Of course, there was no crazy max cash-out rule.

KK

32red did this for sure. Part of a three pack monthly bonus, although you only got a single spin at max bet.

But as you said, they gave you a chance to hit the jackpot, and if you hit it, it was yours. That's called fair. Advertising a promo for a progressive, but having no chance of keeping the money, should you be lucky (or unlucky?) enough to hit it, is not.

 

[bb28]

BB, are you no longer an active affiliate? I still see your name in green but I was not quite sure.

I didn't update my websites for months due to personal reasons and then I didn't because.....well I've been questioning the ethics of it and well now I know I have my answer. Don't get me wrong....I'm stating what is right for me and I'm not condemning anyone else, but depending on how this plays out and if it does come out to be as bad as it appears, IMO affiliates should certainly reconsider promoting Rival.

PS......I'll PM CM to get my name took out of the green.

 

[hitobito2005]

A very loose calculation based on 1c going to the Jackpot total for each max coin bet and the start balance being $10,000 gives us,

(204k-10k) $194000/.01c = 19 Million spins.

That is pure supposition on my part but it may well be a conservative estimate because it is based on every spin being played at max bet ($3.75)

This is probably an overestimate of the number of spins. More typical is a 0.5% or even 1% contribition to the jackpot. Somewhere between these figures would be 3c per spin contribution, so about 6 million spins to get the JP up to $200k.

As stated earlier in this thread, the 27,000 users of this promotion would have an initial bankroll of just over $1m. Assuming a realistic return of 90% on this slot before the jackpot, that allows a total wager of $10m. The number of spins played is $10m/$3.75 = 2.67 million spins.

Most online jackpots have a hit frequency less than 2.67 million spins.

The jackpot would also be unusually large at $200k - having taken 6 million+ spins to get there, which explains why the casino chose now as a time to launch this promotion.

 

[winbig]

I understand what you are saying Chuchu and playing Devils advocate but if the money belonged tot he player he could do with it whatever he wished, like cash out for example.
The max win on the bonus is clear.
That is what the player should receive and the rest returned to the Jackpot.

Yep....even if they tried to say that the player kept the $215K in his account so he could earn comps, doesn't even make it right. They can't have their cake, and eat it, too.

 

[winbig]

This is probably an overestimate of the number of spins. More typical is a 0.5% or even 1% contribition to the jackpot. Somewhere between these figures would be 3c per spin contribution, so about 6 million spins to get the JP up to $200k.

As stated earlier in this thread, the 27,000 users of this promotion would have an initial bankroll of just over $1m. Assuming a realistic return of 90% on this slot before the jackpot, that allows a total wager of $10m. The number of spins played is $10m/$3.75 = 2.67 million spins.

Most online jackpots have a hit frequency less than 2.67 million spins.

The jackpot would also be unusually large at $200k - having taken 6 million+ spins to get there, which explains why the casino chose now as a time to launch this promotion.

If it was 100% random, then it could be "due" to hit for 6 trillion more spins and still not have paid out the JP.

Bottom line: They knew it was going to hit...

 

[bb28]

If it was 100% random, then it could be "due" to hit for 6 trillion more spins and still not have paid out the JP.

Bottom line: They knew it was going to hit...

You know......it's almost incomprehensible to actually believe that it's possible that it could or would happen in that a company would actually do what it appears they have done in this instance. It reeks of underhanded. Did they actually think that this wouldn't bite them in the ass?

Keep those odds threads coming.

 

[felicie]

Isn't it also perhaps the biggest insult to online gambler's intelligence that well I have ever seen and as an American does anyone smell 'conspiracy theory' yet?

 

[BingoT]

Hey bb I said screw it.
Started to remove them.
& made a thread
"Boycott Irish Luck Casino for now"
This is a start anyone else?

And this is to you Mallorca for making my mind up.

 

[BingoT]

Word got out to them because the jackpot stands at.
224,257.00+

 

[winbig]

Word got out to them because the jackpot stands at.
224,257.00+

This just happened

I checked a half hour ago and it was like $24K or something..but I checked it right now and you are correct.

 

[BingoT]

Now that they fixed this I still want a reply by them.
I started this thread and now I want something by them to end this.
We all should know the truth by them.
It might of been a BIG glich because when the Winner hit it that might of just set the jackpot where it should of started and it took time to reset it back to the higher amount.
Only God will know the truth.

 

[spearmaster]

Interesting.

However, there's a quandary - there was at least one jackpot winner since that time. Should that winner not have gotten the jackpot, or was it also off a free chip, in which case they should be compensating that player as well?

To me, restoring the jackpot is not an acceptable solution - only a full payout of the jackpot to the original winner is. I really don't give a rat's ass that it's going to cost the casino money to reseed the jackpot - they should suffer the consequences of their own actions.

This is like getting caught with cookies you stole and being made to put them back in the cookie jar, with no harm done except to the people who were expecting to eat those cookies in the first place.

 

[The Dude]

Well, that was a hell of a lot of speed reading on my part. I'm just catching up with this one

I smell a roguing coming up...

Not recommended at least - that was one hell of a bogus promo. Talk about nullifying any sense of gambling "fun". Casino sez - "hey, you've just won a life changing amount of cash... NOT!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!"

Bad, bad, bad.

BB, are you no longer an active affiliate? I still see your name in green but I was not quite sure.

Yep - bb quit the webmeister realm.

Please don't forget there are some outstanding casino properties out there. Don't let these amateurish casino stunts turn you off. If you are going to promote - promote the likes of 32red etc.

 

[Rusty]

Thank you for the update and at least the money has now been returned the Jackpot.
That should at least slow this thread down and lets hope some lucky punter sees the benefit soon.

Affiliates you can make gaming safer too, be selective as Bryan says.
Kudos to all those that take the time to check Casinos out thoroughly and look after their players.

 

[RobWin]

Interesting.

However, there's a quandary - there was at least one jackpot winner since that time. Should that winner not have gotten the jackpot, or was it also off a free chip, in which case they should be compensating that player as well?

To me, restoring the jackpot is not an acceptable solution - only a full payout of the jackpot to the original winner is. I really don't give a rat's ass that it's going to cost the casino money to reseed the jackpot - they should suffer the consequences of their own actions.

This is like getting caught with cookies you stole and being made to put them back in the cookie jar, with no harm done except to the people who were expecting to eat those cookies in the first place.

The first player that won the jackpot off of the Bonus Coupon was Mike Walker and he should only be entitled to the terms of that coupon that he had originally agreed to when he accepted the coupon, which had a max cashout of $375.00

At that point the progressive jackpot funds should have only been lowered or reduced by $375.00

The second player to have hit it should be entitled to the total amount of the jackpot, whatever it would have been at that point in time, 200K plus I'm sure, assuming he also did not use that Bonus Coupon with the $375 max cashout terms attached.

End of story!

 

[Jasminebed]

I sent an email to Mike (the Irish Luck promotion winner) letting him know about Casinomeister. I've had a reply, he says he'll come over to view and maybe join up and reply.

I'm glad to see the progressive funds returned now. It presents a problem for that second jackpot winner, but as an earlier poster says, they played a progressive with a progressive jackpot advertised at 6K, and won it, assuming they were not playing the same promotion. Even then, with $5K worth of playthrough, they might need most of it to achieve WR and cashout the $375 max.

Irish Luck sure created a big mess with this promotion. But it is my strong feeling that public expose here, over at GWPA forum (thanks KK) and elsewhere was a factor in the proper move of restoring jackpot funds.

 

[KasinoKing]

Irish Luck sure created a big mess with this promotion. But it is my strong feeling that public expose here, over at GWPA forum (thanks KK) and elsewhere was a factor in the proper move of restoring jackpot funds.

You have to wonder, don't you, that if this Jackpot had been hit by a less savvy gambler who was not even aware of online forums, would Irish Luck have just paid him $375, pocketed the $215,000 and none of us or any other Rival players would be any the wiser...?

Also as you said, have they only returned the money to the JP pool because of the pressure from the forums?
I mean, if that was their intention from the start don't you think they would have made some public announcement about it as quickly as humanly possible before the story blew up in to the huge heap of manure we have now?

Something still stinks - and it don't smell of roses...

I'm hoping we'll get some sort of statement about this from Irish Luck or Rival, but considering their significant history of keeping their heads buried in the sand, I'm not holding my breath...

KK

 

[spearmaster]

The first player that won the jackpot off of the Bonus Coupon was Mike Walker and he should only be entitled to the terms of that coupon that he had originally agreed to when he accepted the coupon, which had a max cashout of $375.00

At that point the progressive jackpot funds should have only been lowered or reduced by $375.00

The second player to have hit it should be entitled to the total amount of the jackpot, whatever it would have been at that point in time, 200K plus I'm sure, assuming he also did not use that Bonus Coupon with the $375 max cashout terms attached.

End of story!

I disagree. The jackpot has no provision for anything less than a full disbursement of the jackpot - and thus the entire amount must be disbursed, or none of the amount disbursed in the event of fraud. The terms and conditions of the promotion are essentially void if a jackpot is hit.

This jackpot is unlike Mega Moolah, for example, with 4 tiers, or Caribbean Stud, which has provision for 10% for a straight flush (if I'm not mistaken). Every other jackpot of this sort is paid in full or not at all.

edit -> well, except in the case of a difference between the currency used and the jackpot's default currency, in which case the entire amount is paid out in the currency used, with the remainder left in the jackpot.

edit 2 -> Let me add further that the casino is NOT responsible for the amount of a jackpot - the software provider is. Thus, the casino has no reasonable right to require the software provider to only pay out a portion of the jackpot, even if the provider and the operator happen to be one and the same.

By allowing this, you are essentially giving carte blanche to any operator to dictate a maximum payout on any progressive jackpot by specifying such in its terms or conditions, with or without free chip or bonus. I am sure most, if not all, people agree that this simply is not reasonable.

 

[Jasminebed]

From my readings elsewhere, this questionable freespin bonus was only available to those players already depositing players and playing in US funds, so the currency is not an issue.

 

[RobWin]

I disagree. The jackpot has no provision for anything less than a full disbursement of the jackpot - and thus the entire amount must be disbursed, or none of the amount disbursed in the event of fraud. The terms and conditions of the promotion are essentially void if a jackpot is hit.

This jackpot is unlike Mega Moolah, for example, with 4 tiers, or Caribbean Stud, which has provision for 10% for a straight flush (if I'm not mistaken). Every other jackpot of this sort is paid in full or not at all.

edit -> well, except in the case of a difference between the currency used and the jackpot's default currency, in which case the entire amount is paid out in the currency used, with the remainder left in the jackpot.

Yea, I agree with you in principle there Spear strictly regarding the "Progressive Jackpot", as it or any progressive jackpot should not be used in a promo of this type. What I was mainly talking about were the terms of the "Bonus Coupon" in question.

Whether the $375 payout comes from the "Progressive" pot or not, it still should only be a max payout of $375 for Mike based on the coupon that he agreed to and accepted and played. Reset the jackpot by $375 each time it gets hit while that promotion is running or pay from the casinos general funds.

It still does not change the fact that all of the players that played this particular coupon did in fact agree to and accept those terms that were listed there in the bonus coupon.

It was absolutely absurd and an asinine move on Irish Luck and Rivals part though to have even made this insane promotion in the first place.