One Million Reels BC $204,167.54 + was hit today

[RobWin]

4."No funds are set back to the Progressive Jackpot Pool if a winning player reverses his Progressive Jackpot win."-CM's call,not mine

Why should they be? That was your cash then that you chose to reverse and was not the casinos cash to add back to the progressive pool..I don't see what you are getting at here.

 

[RobWin]

More importantly, regardless this is not just an Irish Luck issue. Maybe someone can find out where the $62,000.00+ in cash I never received is on my "so called" $67,000.00+ progressive jackpot win in late December 2008.

Nash, is that really a fair statement there. You yourself just got thru posting about reversing 9K back...did you also reverse more back too that you have not mentioned here or did you just end up playing it all back? You of all people new the T's & C's of getting paid by TIV and their weekly withdrawal limits for as long as you had been playing there...just trying to keep it real here man

 

[pmhcfc]

Just read this thread- and the whole thing does stink to high heaven....disgusting behaviour on Irish Luck's (Rival's) part - truly one of the worst things I've seen.

I do have a question though - if 'speculation' is correct and there had been about 6 million spins to get the JP to $210k - and now it hit TWICE - would it be safe to assume it's going to be a fair while before it hits again? Meaning the JP could well be $500k by the time summer is drawing to a close? You see, as far as conspiry theories go; this could all be part of a grand plan - get the JP to hit to a free chip, put the money back into the pot - it will be many millions before the JP hits again - the JP is higher - the more people play to try and win it - the more money Rival makes...

You would feel it may be a good time NOT to play this slot - having said that, if they can pre-determine when it's going to hit anyway (and evidence seems to prove that) then perhaps they'll let it be won pretty soon so they are able to paper over the cracks of this debacle....who knows?

I don't care what anyone else says - Rival (Irish Luck) KNEW the JP was about to hit - hence the promo - and they hoped they could get away with it...wonderful places like this forum stopped that happening.

With all this said and done- you can't help but to question the ethics and fairness of the whole online (casino) gambling thing....

 

[NASHVEGAS]

This is correct. The player (you) took the action of your own accord - you could've cashed the entire amount, or you could've played the funds back - but in this case money does not go back to the progressive jackpot unless of course you are playing that particular jackpot!

Obviously, if a player loses a jackpot back to the casino, the casino is entitled to the funds, just as if the player had deposited real money.

I could flush large amounts at anytime thus it would be called a reverse. Others can only flush up to $2K per day or $4K per week with the balance remaining in their casino cash account balance at least as of January. There may be an exception for progressives or now will be.

Once again semantics and I understand but it is mentioned time and time again on this forum that progressives paid by small installment payments will in all likelihood be lost back to the casino. I swore CM deemed it unacceptable,lol. And give me second to find two quotes. As I said I take full responsibility for my actions.

Furthermore, I am viewing this on a macro basis, not a micro. basis. Reverses are one thing, inducements to reverse or play back your balance through well designed schemes, Baloney. I want a check at a BandM, I get it or even this week at MG paid, no thought of reversing and not a dime touched.

 

[chuchu59]

I cannot speculate on whether anyone would know that the JP is about to hit. However, the progressive amount was such that it was felt that it would be worthwhile to get this promo going. If Irish Luck doesnt succeed maybe another Rival will follow up with a similar promo until someone hits it. Personally, I do think that all Rivals are involved in this and each one gets a fair share of the JP winnings that could have been played back as the max cashout is only $375. Who knows? Maybe another Rival could have offered 15 free spins at this progressive at max back and claim it was done to counter the a competitor.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash, is that really a fair statement there. You yourself just got thru posting about reversing 9K back...did you also reverse more back too that you have not mentioned here or did you just end up playing it all back? You of all people new the T's & C's of getting paid by TIV and their weekly withdrawal limits for as long as you had been playing there...just trying to keep it real here man

Not a gray area and I said I took full resposibility for the reverse, playback, whatever. The undisbursed funds (on a progressive only) should be someones', not mine nor Rivals'.

Ultimately one of main issues is should progressives be paid by installment and thus many issues become moot.

FTR, there were no transparent TandC's on progressives and my payment arrangements had nothing to do with the TandC's. And their TandC's still have the same problems today as this time last year but off subject.

If someone wants to be paid a progressive in full, they should, if not then it is no secret how it usually ends.

 

[spearmaster]

I could flush large amounts at anytime thus it would be called a reverse. Others can only flush up to $2K per day or $4K per week with the balance remaining in their casino cash account balance at least as of January. There may be an exception for progressives or now will be.

Are you saying that the entire amount was put into your account but you were only allowed to cash out according to the casino maximum payouts per week?

If so, this is wrong, of course.

Furthermore, I am viewing this on a macro basis, not a micro. basis. Reverses are one thing, inducements to reverse or play back your balance through well designed schemes, Baloney. I want a check at a BandM, I get it or even this week at MG paid, no thought of reversing and not a dime touched.

Yes - for a progressive win, you should not be subjected to a maximum payout or installments.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Are you saying that the entire amount was put into your account but you were only allowed to cash out according to the casino maximum payouts per week?

Yes and it remained there for several days while John worked with whomever on how I would be paid. At any other of the 4 or 5 Rivals casinos I checked with, the progressive win would have been paid exactly as you state including Sloto'Cash, a favorite of the forum members afaik. I also had an account with Sloto. An 1-5-09 chat excerpt:

Reena: Thank you for using Sloto'Cash Casino Live Support. Should you have any future questions, please contact us again.
you: I have another question, I see on you winners list you have had progressive winners. Since progressive jackpots are accumalated from players across all the various casinos , are they paid in full and not installments??
you: did you cut me off??
you: hello
you: I guess so
Reena: of course not
you: gr8
Reena: I'm still here.
Reena: One moment please.
Reena: They're paid in installments.
you: so progressives are paid installments, then they should not be called progressives imho
Reena: Your opinion is always more then welcome
Reena: Is there anything else I might be able to help you with?
you: ty for now and I appreciate the information....good luck

That said, at TIV I was eventually allowed long before the progressive win to flush much larger amounts than the daily and weekly maximums but was paid per the terms of the actual daily and weekly maximums. In order to flush larger amounts than the daily and weekly maximums, the cashier had to be reconfigured. There was no reverse period.

Pursuant to the progressive win, the winnings remained in my casino cash balance for several days until I was told strangely but no biggie, I could flush most of the win but not all after a 24 hour reverse period. I was to receive 3 weekly installments of X and the remainder in the 4th. Obviously much more favorable terms than any other Rival's casino whereby at least in January it would be exactly under the terms you state as unfair.

If so, this is wrong, of course.

Agreed

Yes - for a progressive win, you should not be subjected to a maximum payout or installments.

Unfortunately,one is subjected to such and even being an exception it still ended up exactly as CM states. I can only imagine someone under normal terms ending up with much of their winnings

Dave's site states ~ $668,000 in total progressive wins paid this morning but that may have included the $200K+ that has been added back to the subject thread jackpot pool. I wonder how much cash winnings actually has been disbursed by Rival..

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash I goofed up, and not to just you. Very sloppy on my part

Thanks for being a stand-up guy but I never took offense to in the slightest.......BTW, I am president of the "I goofed up" club...Cheers

 

[LOOKAWAY]

As were on the subject of cash-out reversing. I once had a balance of about $1.5k which I lost and went ahead and reversed $8k at superior casino, and then lost that to. The reason was that they were having cashing out problems that went on for weeks so I couldn't cash-out, I think it all stinked as if they paid me on time I could of matched that money all over the web with many promotions and had a lot of fun.

And the real kick in the teeth is they bonus banned me for winning a few hundred bucks of a birthday free chip. What did they want me to do on my birthday sit and watch a blank screen.

 

[spearmaster]

I should retract my statements partially, as I don't know how Rival pays its jackpot winners, whether directly or through the casino, or if Rival actually claims to pay in installements (can't find it on their site).

My statements are in relation to jackpots on Playtech- and/or Microgaming-powered operations. I think Cryptologic and Boss and RTG also pay jackpots in full but I am not 100% certain.

Either way - whatever the software provider's policies are in relation to progressive jackpots should/must be honored by its licensees without modification, except at the request of the winner.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

Does anyone remember not so long back now when TIV ran a progressive free chip, with a max cash-out?

Edit: I just found a screen shot. (I never play progressive slots)

 

[hitobito2005]

I think Cryptologic and Boss and RTG also pay jackpots in full but I am not 100% certain.

Boss do pay jackpots in full, i've had confirmation of this before from BM.

 

[thelawnet]

May I remind you that the EH issue was due to a programming error, and everyone was compensated, and that I inspected the code in question and stated my opinion that it was clearly unintended? It may well be that many people still don't believe it - but that was my professional opinion as a programmer and naturally it is disappointing that people cannot take my word at face value.

Forgive me, but I never heard a credible explanation as to how they could think to add a non-random bonus game to what is a straight forward video poker double-up game. Doubtless the code they sent you (some weeks later) was plausible, I daresay I could have knocked up similar, had I been in a similar situation.

 

[thelawnet]

It is a bit different. It sounds likely that Rival owns and controls all the Rival-powered casinos, they are the same entity. So it makes no sense to "rogue" Irish Luck on its own when in reality it does not exist as an individual entity.

Playtech is a software providor and does not own or control all casinos which use it's software. If it's proven that Playtech has been involved in dodgy dealings regarding Joyland and the jackpot confiscation then perhaps they should be rogued. However, this does not mean players are at risk if they play at reputable casinos using Playtech software.

Playtech did own Joyland. They bought Joyland from a trust owned by their founder, and sold it on to William Hill.

 

[thelawnet]

And I have to agree with RobWin - there are similarities with the Playtech-Joyland issue, where a 41 percent shareholder in Playtech was allegedly connected through a Trust arrangement with the company that actually owned Joyland.

Not allegedly, in fact Playtech disclosed it in a regulatory filing:

Old / Expired Link

The Purchased Assets are principally being acquired pursuant to arrangements with Uniplay International Limited (Uniplay) and Six Digits Trading Limited (together the Uniplay Assets), companies ultimately owned by trusts in which Mr. Teddy Sagi is beneficially interested. A trust in which Mr. Sagi has a beneficial interest owns approximately 41.06 per cent. of Playtechs issued shares and, accordingly, he is a related party of Playtech for the purposes of the AIM Rules.

Consequently, the Acquisition is being treated as a substantial transaction and a related party transaction for the purposes of rules 12 and 13 of the AIM Rules. The Directors of Playtech consider, having consulted with its nominated adviser, Collins Stewart Europe Limited, that the terms of the Acquisition are fair and reasonable insofar as Playtechs independent shareholders are concerned.

 

[mojo]

I don't mean to interrupt the playtech issue but it appears that Rival Casinos are White Labels.

I have been watching this thread and I have learned a TON! TY

White Lables puts a different spin on things. Irish Luck appears to be a WL. Which means that IL does not own the casino but simply markets it.

To explain further, Irish Luck has a contract with Rival to market this casino and earn a high percentage but it does not own the casino. Rival does. Apparently, and please correct me if I am wrong but most (all?) Rival casinos are WL.

 

[Pinababy69]

I had been going to go back through the thread and multi-quote a ton of posts in reply, but why bother? I read Casino City's post last night, and had to literally sit on my hands to not type some smart ass reply about his claim of back room discussions.

So I decided I would think on it...and try to come to some conclusion as to why he was so convinced of independent ownership...when, to me, it was as plain as the nose on my face, that these joints are all owned by the same people. Sorry, but people don't go to the expense and trouble of hiring top notch legal firms to "fabricate" false claims against a corporation. They obviously think they have a case, as does the solicitor involved. So I went to bed last night pondering the situation, and just before I drifted off....BAM!! WHITE LABELS!!!

That was the only explanation that would cover both Casino City's and mine conviction in our opinions.

A short time ago, I read the thread at the GPWA, and then read Mojo's comments here. All I can do is laugh my friggin head off. EVERY ONE OF THESE CASINOS IS OWNED BY THE SAME PEOPLE!!! Just as the legal documents state...ha ha ha. Rival...what a bunch of total dipshits you are.

The white label scenario completely explains all the bonus banning, delayed payments across all casinos (off and on), absurd withdrawal limits, ridiculous wagering requirements and so on. I feel like the cat that ate the canary.

Honestly, it's no wonder I don't connect with too many people anymore. Everything was there for anyone who chose to see. Of course, people choose to believe what they want...and what is CONVENIENT for them to believe.

No need to post here anymore.....I'll just sit back and wait for the all the people who promote all these places to tell all of us how white labels aren't all that bad, and about niche marketing...and so on, ad nauseum.

Going to pour another drink...this is the best fucking laugh I've had in ages. No wonder no Rival reps comment anymore...on progressive payouts or anything else. It's in direct conflict with their contractual obligations. You know..the contracts with the people who OWN these places. What a fucking joke. If I had a picture of a herd of sheep, I'd post it. BAAAHHHHH!!!

Rival, I hope that T2 Marketing kicks your ass to hell and back in court.....or that at least, you have to pay through the nose for your failure to honour your contract with them. Disguise the true ownership? Ha ha ha....what a bunch of scam artists. The best thing for players is that every one of your casinos are shut down, ASAP. Of course, the affiliates wouldn't like it too much, especially the ones who promote to the U.S. But if that new legislation goes through, you'd never get a licence anyway.

Required reading for anyone who doesn't know what white label marketing is all about, or anyone who actually cares.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/microgaming-white-label-issue.19166/

I am so glad that my livelihood is not derived from anything to do with online gaming, and any of these scam outfits....whose sole purpose seems to be to deceive people. I may not have much money, but I go to sleep every single night with a clear conscience.

 

[mojo]

BAM!! WHITE LABELS!!!

I feel like an idiot. Why didn't I think of that. It all makes sense now.

Pina says it better than I could.

 

[jetset]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

Have you read Corfman's last post at GPWA????.......Then I believe City Guard's post thereafter can be explained by one of attorney Michael Lipton's articles that I referenced in a previous post. I'll post an excerpt and link on the article later......Was reading the old TIV thread.......Something is rotten in the state of Ottawa, Ontario, and prolly Barcelona!!!...........Chillin!!

 

[Tengil]

So basically the Bonne Chance Rivals are just super affiliates of Rival Gaming. No wonder there are so many popping up.

Exactly the same as the poker skins under Tusk/MPP, altough Rival is probably not a scam. But if (a very big if) Rival goes bust you know what happens..
Who knows what will happen in the court case?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Provider-owned white labels could explain it imo, but I think it was KK who said he had actually met two of the Rival owners and believed a third was in Australia some posts back?

I guess that could be a case of "marketers" claiming to be the "owners" for reasons best known to themselves.

This is what happens when a company like Rival does not communicate with its ultimate clients - the players - on critical issues like this one, leaving everything open to speculation.

JACKPOT:yahoo::yahoo: (imnsho)

A fair and balanced article excerpt and link below (imho) but needs additional legal clarification as there was a late 2006 amendment/Bill known as 1952 ,iirc, which as I read may state the legal issues below are only applicable to the Provence of Ontario. I have tried without success to confirm current law. I have no reason to believe at this time that there have been any additional amendments, modifications or other but I do not have a current written legal opinion (whatever they are worth,lol)

The above said, Rival Gaming becomes involved in an alledged breach of contract dispute with a CANADIAN MARKETING COMPANY. Negotiations for ~ 2 to 3 years including demands for payment by T2 (per exhibits) before ultimately legal action commences in late 2008......maybe the article will aid in speculating on and/or connecting some dots per se ((including the possible truth (OOPS) on Rival Gaming ,lol, pulling out of Canada among several other recent courses of action)) with this highly ethical, transparent and accountable online gaming company .

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"The Advertising and Marketing of Online Gaming in Canada
By
Michael D. Lipton, Q.C.
& Kevin J. Weber

Advertising and Marketing Online Gaming and the Canadian Criminal Code"

"Generally speaking, real money online gaming enterprises with substantial connections to Canada violate the gaming and betting provisions of Part VII of the Canadian Criminal Code (the Code).For this reason, online gaming enterprises that involve Canadian individuals must move as many aspects of their operation offshore as possible to minimize connections.

Different considerations come into play when offshore online gaming and betting operations advertise their services to Canadian residents using Canadian-based advertising and marketing firms and Canadian media outlets.

Assuming that an online gaming enterprise has minimal connections to Canada (operation and conduct entirely outside Canada),is it legal to market the website to Canadians bettors and gamers?......................................."

NV NOTE: The 4 defendants/Rival et al et al et al, among others reside in Canada per the filed "MOTION....", fyi!!!






SIDENOTE: I am sorry but respectfully request no future PM's/emails requesting legal documents unless you are an established member of this forum. Where possible, I have complied with everyone's request except for a few members who are new. Once again, I apologize for my above request......BTW, there may be others with access to some legal documents who may be willing to comply with new members requests. I will not mention whom though so please do not request from moi...TY and Peace

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I've had pretty extensive discussions with the folks at Irish Luck relating to this matter and based on those discussions it seems quite certain they are not the same folks as Rival.

Michael

Mr.Corfman,
I hope you will clarify and/or elaborate on your above statement as the statement above may be a misrepresentation (without intent imo) pursuant to certain allegations by T2 based on one's interpretation of your above statement.....TIA,Garry

 

[Pinababy69]

Official Statement from SlotoCash

This just posted at the GPWA:

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Hi All,

Please accept my apologies for not posting sooner, however Sloto'Cash management wanted to get the full story from Rival before making our position clear.

We are satisfied the jackpot was returned to the progressive fund, as both the 1st and 2nd progressive jackpot were won with No Deposit bonus's. For those not clear on how the progressive jackpot accumulates, for every amount wagered by the player the casino operator's pay a percentage to the progressive pot.

We feel the promotion has indirectly damaged Sloto'Cash's reputation and would like to clarify the following:

Sloto'Cash is independently owned and operated by Deckmedia N.V and is in no way affiliated to any other Rival Casino.
Sloto'Cash operate's their own 24/7 support, retention and financial services in-house.
All financial transactions are made through Sloto'Cash's own processors.
Play on any progressive jackpot is excluded from no deposit promotions at Sloto'Cash, unless otherwise specified and in these cases there would be no max cash out on progressive jackpots.
The progressive jackpot is paid to players as one lump sum and is not subject to weekly withdrawal limits at Sloto'Cash Casino.
We cannot comment further at the moment, but would like to assure affiliates we will continue to act as a responsible casino operator.

Best Regards
__________________
Wael
affiliate@slotocash.com

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Kudos to SlotoCash for making a public statement.

And I have to add that it was the one Rival I wasn't sure about in re: Rival ownership. I do believe they are a stand alone operation, given the numerous postings on this forum regarding payouts, bonuses, the processor they use, etc. None of their day to day operations seem to be in line with ALL the other Rivals.

I am extremely happy to see the public statement re: progressive jackpot payouts. That is the way it should be done.

That was professional and addressed the most critical points that have been brought up in this thread and others. Given that statement, and nothing but positive feedback from players, this is one Rival that I would even consider promoting if I were in that end of the business.

I, nor anyone else, will ever convince affiliates to stop promoting these places, nor players to stop playing there. But I can't stress enough, that Slotocash's statement is the way that business SHOULD be done. And I would urge all of you to start pressuring all the other Rivals (via email, phone, livechat, message board postings, thru the affiliate program) to address the issue of lump sum payments as regards their progressives. 5K a month or whatever it is, is NOT acceptable. If someone wins a progressive, they need to be paid out in one payment. No wiggle room. So do your part, and let them know that it's not acceptable any other way.

EDIT: I wanted to add that in my previous posts where I offered an opinion/speculated on Rival ownership, I wish I had included a disclaimer re: SlotoCash. I never was sure about them...they never fit the mold. For that, I apologize to Sloto. As to the rest of the Rivals, pffffttt.