Microgaming White Label Issue

[Pinababy69]

Those sites are almost the EXACT format as these spammers are using.

wtf?


and both sites in the signature lead to a download of "The Casino"... wtf is "The Casino"? Also, all of the casinos besides Goldencasino listed on that website link to the same download.


I played the guinea pig, and downloaded the casino setup and installed it. It's not GM/playshare/whatever.. It's just "The Casino", and yes, it's MG.

I have a strong feeling that he just grabbed a phone number from a well known group and stuck it on the pages.

If that's what he did re: phone #, that's even fucking worse. Did it give you the option of opening an acct? I should go dig up my old CasinoUS account number, and try to enter it into one of the flash versions of these casinos, and see what happens.

Me too. I'm anxious to see the response in the other thread as to why he can't get home.....if you go on vacation, don't you usually get a round trip ticket?

Look what I found...

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/not-illegal-for-usa-to-gamble-online.15298/

That's what made me wonder too Winbig. That and the comment about his g/f leaving him? Her parents flew her home, but left him stranded there? And he can't print out a copy of a bill from the internet, or phone his phone/utility company and have them fax a copy to Neteller? And he didn't even seem too thrilled about Simmo's suggestion that he have one of the aff managers vouch for him. I thought that was a brilliant idea...until I looked at his website.

One more thing...the last casino listed on his homepage, the UK one? It's actually a Playtech, bottom right corner, it says powered by Eurogrand? I would hope that Playtech doesn't condone this type of marketing either. I'm going to be bringing that one to Spear's attention.

I also saw that "near spam" post Winbig. Nothing smells right about any of this, and I hate when people think they can come here and play any of us for suckers.

 

[Pinababy69]

Wow, I didn't even see the links down the right hand side of his "homepage". Half of them are just blank pages, waiting to be filled. One of them, the domain name has actually expired. All of them spammy, cheap sounding domain names...ClubSlotMachine, Vegasdrivecasino, Slotmachine-casino, etc.

Yeah, this guy is a real pro.

 

[Pinababy69]

I did a little more checking via whois registration and all of the websites are registered through Dynadot.com, which is a US hosting and domain name registration company. It shows their offices as being located on Broadway in New York City. I find it a little odd that someone from Holland would choose to register all their domains through a US based company, and one in New York of all states.

So then I got curious about what Winbig said re: The Casino. I didn't feel like d/l'ing a whole MG, so went to the flash version of LuckyAmericanCasino, and sure enough it allowed me to register an account through there. My account # starts with tfccr...certainly doesn't sound like a Playshare/Gamshare account id. So I went and dug out my old CasinoUS (Vegas Partner Lounge) account #, and sure enough it starts with tccr. Obviously no "f" as it wasn't a flash account, but opened on the d/l version.

I really don't know what to make of this. It sounds like Winbig was maybe right...that this guy is using a d/l that (maybe?) leads to one of the Vegas Partner casinos, but threw up support numbers for Playshare on these websites? I did attempt to login using my old CasinoUS #, but it wouldn't let me, although I'm not positive I had the password right. So SOME casino group has my info now, not that I care about that in the least. What's one more?

I heard back from Mario, who will be looking into it....as will Playshare management, hopefully soon...going on what info that has been shared with me. Maybe Vegas Partner will have to be asked for comment on this as well.

I'm no expert, but I'm smart enough to know that something is way off here.

 

[goldeninternetc]

Those sites are almost the EXACT format as these spammers are using.

wtf?


and both sites in the signature lead to a download of "The Casino"... wtf is "The Casino"? Also, all of the casinos besides Goldencasino listed on that website link to the same download.


I played the guinea pig, and downloaded the casino setup and installed it. It's not GM/playshare/whatever.. It's just "The Casino", and yes, it's MG.

I have a strong feeling that he just grabbed a phone number from a well known group and stuck it on the pages.

Sorry, no such thing. In fact, I have a contract with them. Nothing wrong with that is there?

I do not spam. I just took the offer as it was OFFERED to me.

If you want to know,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

is where you will find all the answers. Ask for Chris.

 

[winbig]

So, who actually owns "The Casino"? And how come it's advertised on your site as other casino names - but yet the same download?

 

[goldeninternetc]

Well, I just got off the phone with Playshare. Lucky American, Club Las Vegas, 365Vegas Casino and the others all had the same support phone # listed. It was answered simply casino support and when I asked which casino it was, was told CasinoShare/Playshare. So all these "masked" pages will d/l as one of the Playshare Group of Casinos ie. CasinoShare, GrandMonaco, etc. They were pretty interested in these "pages", and I'm almost positive that Mario will be as well, and so will the affiliate manager when he gets in on Monday morning.

They've promised to email me tomorrow night once the manager is in, and let me know what they're going to do about this guy. But I have a feeling his problems are going to be bigger than just Neteller.

Why in the hell do cheesy affiliates pull stunts like this? If you want to promote Playshare casinos, then promote them under the proper name. They are a decent group from everything I've read about them....why the need to mislead people and mask what they are actually d/l'ing? Are you also responsible for those Mint Las Vegas mailings?

Pissed off.

no, I have nothing to do with that. I don,t even know what you are talking about. The Playshare partner program invited me to work with them due to the domains I own.

Please people, what is wrong with that.

Why is it that my serious intention here gets mashed to bits ?

I am sorry it went this way.

 

[goldeninternetc]

So, who actually owns "The Casino"? And how come it's advertised on your site as other casino names - but yet the same download?

I was invited to work with playsharepartners.com. They arranged all the sites. I just provide the domains.

 

[winbig]

I was invited to work with playsharepartners.com. They arranged all the sites. I just provide the domains.

Just sent a PM to Mario. Now maybe we can get the facts.

 

[Pinababy69]

Just sent a PM to Mario. Now maybe we can get the facts.

I already PM'd Mario Winbig. He replied this morning that he would look into it, and get back to me and post in the thread when he had more info.

I have a sick feeling that the OP is exactly right and this was done through Playshare directly, and that they ARE responsible for those mirror sites/skins. I wanted to hear the OP's side of it first, before I said anything more.

If this is what internet gaming is coming down to....a company like Microgaming allowing their licensees to push clones of well known brands, you can count me out of this game, for good. The last software provider that I trusted, and thought was reputable.

Who does this remind you of? Reminds me of Virtual Casino and their hundreds of clone sites, that all lead back to Virtual. After you've downloaded and played, then they tell you "oh sorry, that casino is part of the Virtual Group and you're only allowed one account across the group".

Not to mention they are the cheesiest, cheapest looking sites to be representing an MG casino. If this is the way that business is going to be conducted, I can envision the future only too well. People will have absolutely no clue which casino they are downloading or playing at....not unless they do exhaustive research ahead of time.

Goldeninternet, while I don't approve of your site, if this was indeed done with the approval of Playshare...you have my apologies. It is scummy, it is deceptive advertising and it stinks to high heaven.

I too am very interested to hear what Mario or any other representative of Playshare/Gamshare and/or Microgaming has to say about this.

 

[Mario]

Just sent a PM to Mario. Now maybe we can get the facts.

Hi all,

Hope eveyone is well.

The casinos advertised on Golden Internet.com belongs to our partners, "the Casinos" is our White label Brands which PlayShare is offers a Generic Program enabling Partners and affiliates to Market their own Brands, this would account for the common phone numbers and downloads as we will do all the support and most of the back office stuff.

Yes these casinos do still fall part of the PlayShare group but the brands have requested to be their own entity and thus no mentioning or any branding of Playshare.

We will be investigating in full what has been said in these post with all the relevant parties to find some sort of common ground.

Guys do note that what you have come to expect with the PlayShare Group and the service and gameplay this is what you will get with these Generic or white label brands.

Don't hesitate to contact me with any issues and I'll gladly see what I can do for You.

Best regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Represntative

 

[Pinababy69]

The casinos advertised on Golden Internet.com belongs to our partners, "the Casinos" is our White label Brands which PlayShare is offers a Generic Program enabling Partners and affiliates to Market their own Brands, this would account for the common phone numbers and downloads as we will do all the support and most of the back office stuff.

Yes these casinos do still fall part of the PlayShare group but the brands have requested to be their own entity and thus no mentioning or any branding of Playshare.

Mario, thank you for at least taking the time to post, and I am certainly not going to take out my disgust at this whole situation on you. You are just doing your job, as you are paid to do.

So Microgaming IS in the business of white label casinos now? Absolutely unbelievable, at least to me, that they have to resort to this level of marketing.

Who pays the players who sign up at these White Label brands? If they are their own entity, then who actually owns them? Affiliates? Who handles all the finances?

I'm beyond disgusted, and pretty much done with this thing called online gaming. What's next? Clones of 32Red packaged in a cheesy, cheap looking skin?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Hi all,

Hope eveyone is well.

The casinos advertised on Golden Internet.com belongs to our partners, "the Casinos" is our White label Brands which PlayShare is offers a Generic Program enabling Partners and affiliates to Market their own Brands, this would account for the common phone numbers and downloads as we will do all the support and most of the back office stuff.

Yes these casinos do still fall part of the PlayShare group but the brands have requested to be their own entity and thus no mentioning or any branding of Playshare.

We will be investigating in full what has been said in these post with all the relevant parties to find some sort of common ground.

Guys do note that what you have come to expect with the PlayShare Group and the service and gameplay this is what you will get with these Generic or white label brands.

Don't hesitate to contact me with any issues and I'll gladly see what I can do for You.

Best regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Represntative

Could someone explain what Mario is saying in laymens terms as I am not sure I understand and for once I am not being a smartass. Thanks in advance.

 

[Pinababy69]

Basically Nash, what will happen is this...someone gets an email offer in their inbox or sees a link on some website for let's say...LuckyAmericanCasino. They d/l and deposit and play. All fine and dandy. The following week they get another email or find what they "think" is a new casino called 365VegasCasino. They go to d/l and play and if the software is working correctly (fingers crossed), they'll be denied opening a new account. Why? Because they already have one at LuckyAmerican, which is really this "The Casino", which is administered by Playshare. The following week, they get another new offer from some affiliate with another new casino, or so they think because the name is different. But guess what? Yep, it all leads back to this "The Casino". Remind you of Virtual Casino and their hundreds of clone sites/skins? It sure does me.

And dependent on how many "partners/affiliates" are allowed to use this marketing technique, it could get ugly very quickly, multiplying like rabbits. Hope that helps somewhat?

 

[Pinababy69]

I wonder if anyone can answer now who was REALLY behind that spam campaign fondly known to us all as Mint Las Vegas? How many other reputable MG groups are doing this exact same thing? And all this time we blamed those emails on a scummy affiliate. Ha ha ha..this is rich.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Basically Nash, what will happen is this...someone gets an email offer in their inbox or sees a link on some website for let's say...LuckyAmericanCasino. They d/l and deposit and play. All fine and dandy. The following week they get another email or find what they "think" is a new casino called 365VegasCasino. They go to d/l and play and if the software is working correctly (fingers crossed), they'll be denied opening a new account. Why? Because they already have one at LuckyAmerican, which is really this "The Casino", which is administered by Playshare. The following week, they get another new offer from some affiliate with another new casino, or so they think because the name is different. But guess what? Yep, it all leads back to this "The Casino". Remind you of Virtual Casino and their hundreds of clone sites/skins? It sure does me.

And dependent on how many "partners/affiliates" are allowed to use this marketing technique, it could get ugly very quickly, multiplying like rabbits. Hope that helps somewhat?

Thanks as was struggling to understand,imagine that, but you have made it crystal clear........deceptive if nothing else. Thanks again

 

[jetset]

This white label concept can be a minefield for players, software providers and licensees alike, and if not strictly controlled at (software provider) level can lead to serious damage to player trust and company reputations, in my view.

Cheapass clones can, as Pina has already pointed out, confuse players, create marketing spam and in extreme cases like the Virtual group lead to deceptive "multiple bonusing" disqualifications.

And who supports the players if the white label operator is insufficiently funded or inexpert enough to go under owing players money?

If the white label system is not strictly policed, unprofessional and cheap looking sites using the software provider's games can make the provider look bad and cheap, too.

If the white label operator is not sufficiently supervised or experienced, he or she may do things to players that lack integrity and will prejudice the players and therefore adversely impact the business of the software provider and the licensee behind the white label.

The way I see it, the only way a legitimate white label scheme can work properly is if the software provider and licensee wishing to get into white labeling are upfront about their scheme and accept equal responsibility for the careful selection, vetting and probity checking on the applicants.... then develop strict monitoring and system controls, together with clear guidelines on what is acceptable in terms of player respect, player protection, player privacy and general marketing.

And if these guidelines are infringed, then there has to be provision to "pull" the white label's plug. To do otherwise is to invite anarchy imo, with "casinos" using solid and reputable software but run by inexperienced clowns running riot with questionable marketing and management techniques.

Unless white labeling is carefully controlled it can become a monster that devours player trust and does the industry no favours either.

 

[Pinababy69]

Jetset, thank you so much for that post. It was unbiased and spot on!! And so much more level-headed than anything I have to say.

If this person Goldeninternetcasino is the person responsible for "paying" the players, and balancing the books of his "clones"....I shudder at the thought. The man can't find his way home from vacation. I'm not trying to be rude, just stating the obvious.

There needs to be some transparency here as to who is looking after what, how it will be regulated, and I wouldn't mind hearing eCOGRA's views as well. Playshare's "own" brands ie. Grand Monaco may carry the eCOGRA seal (I'm not even sure, just an example). Does this extend to ALL of Playshare's clones?

Anyone not clear on the concept of this whole thing...go back and read Jetset's post, more than once if you have to. It sums it all up perfectly!!

 

[mrracetrack]

Kudo's to Jetset for a "spot on" post...

Jetset... although we have had our differences over the years... your post on this troubling situation with Microgaming is honest... accurate... and most informative.

You get a big from me for this.

Pinababy gets one, too... for bringing this issue to everyones attention.

Microgaming is making a HUGE mistake, in my opinion, by allowing this "sleazy" type of marketing of their casinos and software.

I also feel that e-Cogra should provide some explanation of this.

 

[jetset]

Jetset... although we have had our differences over the years... your post on this troubling situation with Microgaming is honest... accurate... and most informative.

You get a big from me for this.

Pinababy gets one, too... for bringing this issue to everyones attention.

Microgaming is making a HUGE mistake, in my opinion, by allowing this "sleazy" type of marketing of their casinos and software.

I also feel that e-Cogra should provide some explanation of this.

Thanks for that Racetrack - I try not to let the past influence my present or future, and differences between posters with opposing but equally strongly felt opinions are inevitable - but that's years back and water under the bridge afaiac.

Without more detail (and that falls under the "transparency" heading for me) we can't be sure of the full story here, and it certainly needs public clarification by those companies that are involved, especially in regard to what control and safeguards have been imposed.

 

[Mario]

This white label concept can be a minefield for players, software providers and licensees alike, and if not strictly controlled at (software provider) level can lead to serious damage to player trust and company reputations, in my view.

Cheapass clones can, as Pina has already pointed out, confuse players, create marketing spam and in extreme cases like the Virtual group lead to deceptive "multiple bonusing" disqualifications.

And who supports the players if the white label operator is insufficiently funded or inexpert enough to go under owing players money?

If the white label system is not strictly policed, unprofessional and cheap looking sites using the software provider's games can make the provider look bad and cheap, too.

If the white label operator is not sufficiently supervised or experienced, he or she may do things to players that lack integrity and will prejudice the players and therefore adversely impact the business of the software provider and the licensee behind the white label.

The way I see it, the only way a legitimate white label scheme can work properly is if the software provider and licensee wishing to get into white labeling are upfront about their scheme and accept equal responsibility for the careful selection, vetting and probity checking on the applicants.... then develop strict monitoring and system controls, together with clear guidelines on what is acceptable in terms of player respect, player protection, player privacy and general marketing.

And if these guidelines are infringed, then there has to be provision to "pull" the white label's plug. To do otherwise is to invite anarchy imo, with "casinos" using solid and reputable software but run by inexperienced clowns running riot with questionable marketing and management techniques.

Unless white labeling is carefully controlled it can become a monster that devours player trust and does the industry no favours either.

Hi All,

Hope everyone is well.

So the cat is out of the bag and we would like to thank everyones participation on these posts.

Without your feedback and concerns we will surely be at a disadvantage for ensuring a program like this runs AND is maintained in a sensible and proper manner as what you would come to expect from an industry leading gaming provider and casinos.

We do strongly agree that a WL program like this can and could become a big mess and thus we will ensure that the following is addressed and managed.

We agree with the statements that WL's needs to have clear guidelines put in place and be monitored to ensure that the software provider, the licensee AND the player are not compromised in anyway.

We do vet our partners and the program is strictly monitored at all times.

If a partner is seen to be overstepping the line we scrutinize and take appropriate actions against the guilty parties.

We manage the player relationship as there is no doubt that the player comes first at all times and as such we ensure the player experience will not be compromised at all.

PlayShare assume full responsibility for all payouts to players.

We are transparent in our Terms and Conditions as to whom we are partnered with in the WL program.

Buy saying this we would like to make you aware that we will not prohibit anyone from opening up more than on WL account but we do make it quite clear on the terms and conditions that you would only get on sign-up offer on the WL program. (This does excludes CasinoShare and Grand Monaco)

Hope that this does clear out some of your concerns as we come to suspect that a program such like this could make or break ones reputation easily for all parties involved and the players are our first priority at all times.

I do request that if there is any other concerns which has not been addressed in this post please do not hesitate to keep on posting so that we can assure that we succeed where other have failed.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative

 

[mrracetrack]

??

Mario...

Why was this new "White Label" promotion kept so secretive and hidden?

If this is such a great idea... why wasn't it announced with a lot of fanfare?

Seems to me that you all were "caught with your pants down" with this...

And it certainly seems that it was NOT intended for public knowledge at present.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

MARIO,this is not my cup of tea so I will be brief and dwell on only one or two (not necessarily key) points to the more important issues. I understand you claim that your company assumes full responsibilty for payouts and I am not qualified to pass judgement on the creditability of that statement. That being said, I question your due diligence on your selection of partners based on the original OP's posts and his website. He appears to lack any capital to run a professional business, business savvy also appears to be lacking as to why would he post about wanting to pursue legal action(over a couple thousand dollars) pursuant to a payment processor that your company must value its relationship with, I have decided to cease but I could go on.

 

[Pinababy69]

So the cat is out of the bag

Interesting choice of words.

We do vet our partners and the program is strictly monitored at all times.

Given the quality of the site that I first found your clones on, I find it very hard to believe that ANY pre-screening whatsoever was done. I'm pretty sure that I could put together a more professional looking site than GoldenInternetCasino.com, and I have but very basic html skills.

PlayShare assume full responsibility for all payouts to players.

The ONLY bright spot in Mario's post. I'm sorry Mario, I'm not trying to come down on you personally. This was probably written for you to post by someone within your company. Again, just doing your job and I understand that.

We are transparent in our Terms and Conditions as to whom we are partnered with in the WL program.

Can you please tell me where I can find a COMPLETE list of all your white labels, and who you are partnered with? I'm betting there are more than just the GIC site with his four or so clones. I'm sure there are more, or will be in the future. How can I keep on top of this ever-growing list?

Buy saying this we would like to make you aware that we will not prohibit anyone from opening up more than on WL account but we do make it quite clear on the terms and conditions that you would only get on sign-up offer on the WL program. (This does excludes CasinoShare and Grand Monaco)

A nightmare waiting to happen and I can't wait until the complaint posts start from people who were denied their signup bonus, because they weren't aware that the ten new casino accounts they opened last week were in fact all with the same company. Are you going to provide a complete and total list of each and every one of your white labels to every new player upon signup? BEFORE they make that initial deposit? Will it be clearly posted on each and every cheesy clone website which of these casinos are yours? And which casinos the players are prohibited from claiming a signup bonus in? I see no other way that this can ever succeed. And it surely seems like a monumental task, especially given the fact that many casinos seem to have problems keeping just their own websites updated with current T&C's.

Hope that this does clear out some of your concerns as we come to suspect that a program such like this could make or break ones reputation easily for all parties involved and the players are our first priority at all times.

In my own personal opinion, your reputation was shot to hell the second you decided to participate in such a DECEPTIVE form of advertising. If players were your first priority, you would never have felt the need for this, and you surely wouldn't have hidden it...until you got caught that is. Why not simply offer the players Grand Monaco and CasinoShare? Two casinos that are proven and respected within the industry. The first priority is making money, and this just drives home that point more than anything.

Why your company felt the need to stoop to the same low levels that a rogue like Virtual has been using all these years to "trap" players...I will never be able to comprehend. Sell your souls for that few extra bucks.

And the fact that Microgaming is okay with this? I'm absolutely dumbfounded, I really am. The most respected and trusted software provider in the business, shot to hell in one fell swoop.

I still have questions. Where does eCOGRA stand on this? How do they fit into the big picture? How many other reputable casino groups are using this same tactic? I want to know so that I can close any accts I may have with them ASAP. Who was behind that Mint Las Vegas spam campaign? I no longer believe it was an affiliate acting on his/her own, and expect many more of them in the future. How many of these things are going to "infest" the internet in the next six months?

Does anyone besides Jetset, Mrracetrack, Nash and myself give a shit?

I wouldn't play at a Playshare casino if they were the last casino on the planet. And the day that 32Red decides this is the easy route to their "fortune", I say goodbye to them as well.

Disgusted at the situation, and in shock that very few actually see the big picture. I'll keep a link to this thread handy when the complaints start rolling in.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I am not sure it was wise to split the original thread as some the original OP's comments (soliticing someone to sue the shit out of NT) in the original pre-split thread have been refered to in this thread but yet do not appear in this thread. Posters and readers may be easily confused as to what is being referenced. Perhaps, CM can come up with a suitable remedy.

 

[Mousey]

Hi All,

......PlayShare assume full responsibility for all payouts to players.

We are transparent in our Terms and Conditions as to whom we are partnered with in the WL program.

Buy saying this we would like to make you aware that we will not prohibit anyone from opening up more than on WL account but we do make it quite clear on the terms and conditions that you would only get on sign-up offer on the WL program. (This does excludes CasinoShare and Grand Monaco)

........

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative

Thanks for addressing this, Mario.

However.... will there be an easily accessible list of alllll these casinos/labels? And will this list be included with these T&C about no bonuses with 'sister' white lable casinos?

It's easy to say, 'only one sign up bonus per this 'group' but difficult to make this clear to the player when they haven't any idea which casino names fall under this 'white label'. In fact, I'd say 98% of online gamblers have no idea what a white label casino is, nor the possible pitfalls of signing up with one (or more). i.e.: Clueless Player signs up, deposits, gets bonus at Bellyfull Casino. A month later, same player signs up and deposits at BustaGut Casino after receiving an email promising a fat bonus, but isn't allowed the bonus. (We've all seen this scenario a jillion times.) Guess what? Clueless player gets pissed off.

As to my personal opinion... I don't like this, I don't like it at all. I never, ever thought I'd have to beware 'generic' Microgaming casinos popping up like mushrooms after a summer shower.

And I probably owe an apology to the 'affiliate' pushing that Jupiter/Big Dollar/MintLasVegas casino. But I won't apologize, as I already have an account at all those namebrand casinos and don't like being spammed.

Dang it... I've got to get ready to go to work -- I'll have to catch up on all this later.