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So the news on the radio said Cohen would have received max 70 years for those crimes. He got three.
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North Korea and US politics
- Thread starter weesie
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vorcirion
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how many years mr. Trump deserves in your opinion?
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70 years seems a bit steep for tax fraud etc.., bernie madoff got sentenced to 150 years though, I must admit I don't really see the sense in these sentences beyond obvious life expectancy. cohen's 52 so would've needed to live to 122 to serve a 70 yr sentence...
On the bits I've read so far, mainly from stevie's post above, considering he was trump's attorney for 12 years, there wasn't much, in my eyes, that would lead to trump being impeached.
It just seems like more tittle tattle heaped on top of months and months of the same, and the democrats are still not really properly focused on winning the policy arguments, if you don't like trump provide a more attractive alternative, it's as simple as that surely?
Mr. T needs to announce another "win", so he has something the brag about. For that he gives away the house, just so he can please his ego and his blind supporters.
Anything he does will be a BIG, tremendous achievement, even when it is hardly an achievement at all, just like NAFTA2.
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Cohen paid the back taxes so maybe that has something to do with the reduced sentence. He'll probably get time off for good behavior and be out in 2-2.5 years.
The democrats have moved even further left and if the Donald survives will get re-elected.
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Slotplayer in all your time, has the political soap opera ever been worse than this?
Michael cohen looked very sad in that video, but it sounds like he's brought a lot of this upon himself, maybe he thought being Trump's lawyer would give him some sort of protection through being connected to the billionaire class.
But he seems to have not realised the US establishment never wanted Trump to be president and would do their utmost to try and get rid of him. They went on a fishing trip to nail trump, and decided putting the president's lawyer on trial and then behind bars is one way of trying to damage donald by association. I doubt any of this tax fraud would ever have come to light if Trump had never ran for president...
Michael cohen looked very sad in that video, but it sounds like he's brought a lot of this upon himself, maybe he thought being Trump's lawyer would give him some sort of protection through being connected to the billionaire class.
But he seems to have not realised the US establishment never wanted Trump to be president and would do their utmost to try and get rid of him. They went on a fishing trip to nail trump, and decided putting the president's lawyer on trial and then behind bars is one way of trying to damage donald by association. I doubt any of this tax fraud would ever have come to light if Trump had never ran for president...
Yet again, the self-proclaimed "Dealmaker-in-Chief" and "I alone can fix it" wizard can't make a deal no matter what. Falling on his knees to the "little rocket man" and experiencing what it means negotiating with North-Koreans. It was supposed to be sooooo easy! Tremendous achievement, tremendous progress AKA nothing has been achieved at all. 
Calling Kim, who murdered 1,000's of his citizens and keeps 100,00's in gulags, a "fantastic leader" show who te real Mr. T is..... absolutely despicable.
Calling Kim, who murdered 1,000's of his citizens and keeps 100,00's in gulags, a "fantastic leader" show who te real Mr. T is..... absolutely despicable.
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Yet again, the self-proclaimed "Dealmaker-in-Chief" and "I alone can fix it" wizard can't make a deal no matter what. Falling on his knees to the "little rocket man" and experiencing what it means negotiating with North-Koreans. It was supposed to be sooooo easy! Tremendous achievement, tremendous progress AKA nothing has been achieved at all.
Calling Kim, who murdered 1,000's of his citizens and keeps 100,00's in gulags, a "fantastic leader" show who te real Mr. T is..... absolutely despicable.
I see what you're saying, but then again he could hardy call him a murdering sh*t bag, he had to be 'something' leader, and trump has a stock amount of superlatives he likes to throw in everywhere, the alternatives were 'the best ever' or the 'greatest'. I did say he should have been a comedian, then again he's trying to be diplomatic and I still feel the elephant in the room is china.
My other theory is the US establishment started off all this north korea peace talk business as a way of occupying trump, they knew it was an impossible mission and doomed to failure but it would mean Trump had less time to do anything else in his first term. And if he wins a 2nd term, the NK peace talks will still be labouring on devouring his time and energy in a fruitless pursuit to get NK to disarm themselves.
In the presidential debates as far as I can recall there wasn't much if any discussion about North korea...
Nah mate, I see it differently.
He just likes strongmen because he is so weak. He's cheating on his height in the medicals saying he's 6"3' when he's only about 6" tall. That's how desperate he is to look strong.
As for NK I don't see him being pushed. I think it he rather saw it as an easy win, simple to get done and get him the coveted Nobel Prize because Obama has one. That is how Mr. T is thinking, there is no establishment pushing him or anything the like.
I give you one more example. Cohen testified that Mr. T sent him to an auction to drive up the prize of a painting of Mr. T to be the most expensive in the auction. Ten minutes after the auction closed Mr. T was tweeting that his painting was the most expensive one. He is just desperate for attention because he is so weak.
In NK's case, it meant threaten NK with war, screw down on sanctions whitout thinking how much the innocent population itself will suffer, let the B2 bomber fly closer and closer to NK airspace, mock Kim where possible etc. and the Koreans will come begging for a deal - that was his simple-minded plan. It didn't pay off because the North-Koreans are not stupid. They know exactly what they have with their nuclear capabilities.
I'll give it another few weeks or even just days and the NK propaganda TV will paint the US again as the bad guys. Same same as ten, 15 and 20 years ago. Mr. T got played like a fiddle just like all other administrations. The difference is that the other took it on the chin and moved on, Mr. T bragged he would not be played.
It’s not a fishing trip or a witch hunt when The Russians interfered with our elections on behalf of president trump. This is not conjecture. It is fact. Not fake news. So they will be looking at everyone around him.
The list is long. And this is who president trump associates with. His close associates. Imagine this was president Obama. We would have to peel the Republicans off of the ceiling.
The only people left and mueller I am guessing is leaving this till the very end is trump and his family.
Im pretty sure there is proof in terms of audio from other countries intelligence that trump knew about the Russian meeting and was actively seeking the help of the Russians.
The president is a liar and a crook.
Cohen proved that the president knew about hush payments when trump denied he knew anything. Cohen provided checks that show trump paid him hush money after he was president. And paid him from a charity foundation that has since been shut down and under investigation for being used inappropriately by the trump family.
There is nothing trump would do to make himself richer. Bedomin* president was just as Cohen said one long infomercial for the trump brand.
The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe
1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and
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in October 2017 to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018 (though Mueller’s team said in November that he
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by lying to them).3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February 2018 he agreed to a
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, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and
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.4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser,
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in December 2017 to making false statements to the FBI.5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the
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, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.21) Richard Pinedo: This California man
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to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention
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22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer
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to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia,
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alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case last year.24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were
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related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’
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in 2016.36) Michael Cohen: In August 2018, Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations — related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump, as part of a separate investigation in New York (that Mueller had handed off). But in November, he made a plea deal with Mueller too, for lying to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.
37) Roger Stone: In January 2019, Mueller indicted longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone on 7 counts. He accused Stone of lying to the House Intelligence Committee about his efforts to get in touch with WikiLeaks during the campaign, and tampering with a witness who could have debunked his story.
Finally, there is one other person Mueller initially investigated, but handed over to others in the Justice Department to charge: Sam Patten. This Republican operative and lobbyist
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to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government.
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edit: moved below
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As far as I was aware the extent of the 'russian' help trump received were a few social media posts/images that were critical of hillary, which was happening anyway, plenty of americans on social media were actively slating hillary and her record. If the democrats had chosen bernie I think the russians would have preferred him over Trump, for them it was anyone but Hillary as she is a well known war hawk.
Also no one has suggested that the russians interfered with the republican primaries to get Trump nominated in the first place? Wouldn't they have also needed to do this, otherwise their 'masterplan' to get comrade trump elected would've failed at the first hurdle?
Due to the politicised nature of the Mueller witch hunt [e.g the roger stone fbi raid, as if he was dangerous man like el chapo ] and the US legal system's use of plea deals, I'm not sure mueller's charge sheet is all that impressive, if it was the election result would need to be annulled immediately and asap, not let Trump preside in the whitehouse for over two years??
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Nah mate, I see it differently.
He just likes strongmen because he is so weak. He's cheating on his height in the medicals saying he's 6"3' when he's only about 6" tall. That's how desperate he is to look strong.
As for NK I don't see him being pushed. I think it he rather saw it as an easy win, simple to get done and get him the coveted Nobel Prize because Obama has one. That is how Mr. T is thinking, there is no establishment pushing him or anything the like.
I give you one more example. Cohen testified that Mr. T sent him to an auction to drive up the prize of a painting of Mr. T to be the most expensive in the auction. Ten minutes after the auction closed Mr. T was tweeting that his painting was the most expensive one. He is just desperate for attention because he is so weak.
In NK's case, it meant threaten NK with war, screw down on sanctions whitout thinking how much the innocent population itself will suffer, let the B2 bomber fly closer and closer to NK airspace, mock Kim where possible etc. and the Koreans will come begging for a deal - that was his simple-minded plan. It didn't pay off because the North-Koreans are not stupid. They know exactly what they have with their nuclear capabilities.
I'll give it another few weeks or even just days and the NK propaganda TV will paint the US again as the bad guys. Same same as ten, 15 and 20 years ago. Mr. T got played like a fiddle just like all other administrations. The difference is that the other took it on the chin and moved on, Mr. T bragged he would not be played.
I'm not sure Kim qualifies as a strongman in the same way as Putin, to me Kim's just the figurative head of a totalitarian regime that's heavily backed by china, he's wholly reliant on the chinese say so. He probably would have to have a strong psychological mindset to cope with being in his position, the generals could arrange a coup overnight with the help of the chinese, he mustn't do anything that offends them or is against their wishes.
Trump though would be naive if he thinks buttering up to Kim changes anything, as if getting Kim onboard is the only sticking point to NK's nuclear disarmament. That is true about the nobel peace prize that could be one of donald's motivations, but I don't think the the committee would ever award trump, he'd be too right wing for their liking.
Trump is a self publicist, but he still seems to connect with his grass roots support, a lot who have basically nothing, the forgotten americans who lost their jobs as a result of globalism and greed, folk who might have voted democrat before.
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I've never seen the soap opera this bad. I lost track of it long ago. Its too hard to keep sorted. If Trump lost none of it would have come to light either.
Maybe you should do some research before you reduce Russian interference in a major election to a few Facebook ads.
As well, the republicans were in charge of both house and senate. No way they would investigate. They’ve been dismissing thenmueller investigation since it begun.
As for the soap opera. Both you and slotplayer would probably dismiss president trump if he ever killed someone on 5th ave. Just like he said you all would.
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That's a bit harsh, and also a little mean to slotplayer if it was primarily my post that provoked this casual insult, but I can't help having a chuckle that you see it this way.
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amazing that the audience clapped and found it funny, deplorable is actually a good description of hillary herself.
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Only half?!? 
how is this mean? merely pointing out how you will both defend this guy till the bitter end.
you both think that a president who lies about what he knew and when he knew is negligible. so what, you are saying. should there no consequences for checks he wrote from a charity foundation(you can not use a charity foundation for personal use it is against the law) while he was president to pay off a personal debt? a personal debt which we call hush money to keep extra marital affairs out of the news. after months of denial.... there are checks. and he was supposed to have given up his businesses/foundations but he's still writing checks......and yet he was still pursuing the trump tower in russia.
what's it gonna take to make you say. wow. he's not a good guy.
have we normalized cheating and lying? 8900 of them to date.
have we normalized making money above all else?
have we normalized racism and we're calling it make america great again?
mr trump has manipulated and lied to all of us. except some of us will not defend him no matter what.
sorry history will prove that this man has cheated and lied and probably committed treason.
there is a sealed indictment against him in the southern district of ny....it is for money laundering. new yorkers knew it and soon the rest of america will get to know it.
my family and my mother are staunch republicans and my southern and canadian upbringing are keeping me from really telling you what i think right now.
but i don't get this whataboutism you are afflicted with. clinton is old news. don't get why we are still talking about her two years into this presidency but ok.
Lock him up!
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well mean in the sense if I hadn't written post 2112 you wouldn't have accused slotplayer of defending trump even if he killed someone on 5th avenue, so I think you wanted to attack me but used slotplayer as cover to make the insult seem less personal [and acceptable within the forum's ethos ] Like I said earlier it actually made me shake my head and laugh, I wasn't offended because it was just surreal.
I don't think I've ever said donald trump, with all his bragging and sharp business practice over the years etc.. is a 100% good guy, but I think on some issues he has displayed good sense e.g. against the stripping away of US manufacturing jobs, illegal immigration which is unsustainable and trying to address the flow of drugs and criminals across the us/mexican border, pointless meddling and wars in the middle east, the creeping agenda and increase of globalism etc..
Sometimes you have to vote for the least worse alternative, why would his base want to vote for hillary, she'd already made her view of despising them clear. Trump in his first political attempt also hands down beat all the other republican candidates, possibly as some of them were clearly not very republican on issues.
'whataboutism' is fundamentally about fairness based on consistency, a healthy democracy cannot be blasé and indulge in hypocrisy, so the tests you apply to trump's behaviour out of office and in office must be applied across the board, to your george bush's and bill clinton's; for example lying deliberately to start a war [bush/blair] where thousands of innocent people die is worse than anything Trump has done to date IMO.
Trump may get locked up, but he doesn't look particularly anxious or worried about it so I'm guessing the authorities have very little to throw at him, of enough seriousness.
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one thing I would criticise Trump for was his firing of rex tillerson who to me was far more a diplomat than pompeo ever could be and his hiring of john 'lets go to war!' bolton...
for me Trump will be an evolving story, I would never give him or any other politician uncritical support
for me Trump will be an evolving story, I would never give him or any other politician uncritical support
1. The manufacturing jobs will never return in big numbers, no matter what you do. Consumer goods would explode in price.
2. He does not address it. The majority of illegal immigrants are people overstaying their LEGAL visa. Has he introduced any measures to curb that? BTW, the US like many other developed nation will need a certain level of immigration to avoid a reduction in population, thus leading to a collapse of the social security system which is already today under immense strain.
3. He does not address that either. 90% or more are coming through ports of entry. (He's building a wall and the drug cartels are laughing). So far Mr. T has done nothing in that respect, the WALL is his thing
4. Mr. T still meddles in the Middle-East and in the world, the only thing he did is side completely with SA and Israel. He's still in Afghanistan, he's still in Iraq, he's still in Nigeria, he's still in South-Korea (yeah, that is officially still a war)...list not complete. He's pulling out 1,600 troops from Syria to make him look good, nothing else. He has declared now a few times that ISIS has been defeated, yet anyone directly involved e.g. generals totally contradict him.
5. Has anyone managed to turn back time? How do you think you disconnect a completely connected world? BTW, it was the US who pushed globalism and Mr. T happily benefited from it for decades. Now he's trying to bring back coal and steel (total maybe 5000 jobs so far, but destroyed at least the equal number in companies that use steel).
Geez wake up, this guy has done nothing that is good for the normal US citizen. NADA! The only thing he did is as Cohen said: "broadcast the longest informercial ever for the brand Trump"
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Ah, I learn something new every day: sharp business practice is (amongst others) when a business man simply refuses to pay smaller contractors (in full) because he knows they don't have the money to start costly legal procedures. That's an interesting euphemism!
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