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Meister ratings,time to do a update?

This is my opinion, but i know other fellow members agree about this.
Energy casino
Casumo casino
Bitstarz casino
playoyo casino

They do not belong in your 9.1 or 9.2 Meister rating . Maybe 3 years ago.
Much has happened since then and you are aware the problems.

Can you please do anything to correct this ?

Regards André.
I agree, Videoslots needs to be added to that list. A little research into each rated casino across the web with genuine player's feedback to find patterns in good/bad reviews. Followed by some secret 'mystery/secret gambling sessions' on these sites, with the emphasis on customer service & withdrawals. Maybe asking users on here to nominate decent sites & experiences to give Casinomeister a little help in choosing recommended names. Moving forward this list should be updated and mystery player checks every 6 months.

It will also be refreshing to see some new names with more support/promotion aimed at smaller independent brands.
 
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With the changes going on - that's doable, and a great task for our Meister Minions. We are in the midst of change at the moment. but one thing that needs to change is the rating system. So yeah. we're going to get the membership more involved with this since the clock is ticking on my end. :D

Meister Minions CAN rate these casinos - all they have to do is get busy doing that.

The CM rating system is very transparent, but the data needs updating. :thumbsup:
Casino Reviews: Rating System Explanation

I can look at these individual casinos later today perhaps, and see if the data matches the scores.
 
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Guys, this thread is so good I've created a new thread prefix for it, and others like it:

2024-07-16_15-08.webp


Stuff like this is fantastic and exactly what we need to hear as we look forward to our third decade in the biz. 🥳🥳🥳

- Max
 
I agree with the timeframe aspect. VS mentioned earlier in the thread is a great example because you could plot their slide from a mid-9s to perhaps a (gut feeling) mid-8s casino.

Also the landscape has changed considerably in the past decade, so in my opinion a revamp* would need to consider:
  • The quality of customer service
  • The quality of dispute resolution (CS in part; but includes ADR, management attitudes etc)
  • RTPs
  • Responsible gambling tools
  • Usability - platform stability, mobile apps, search features etc (bit of a catch-all for now, one for further discussion)
  • Involvement with streamers - not a negative on its own, but fake money = red flag immediately
  • Involvement with community - naturally there's some credit for CM participation, but a rep that is active on other communities is a positive also
Some of these would require a lot of data, some are very subjective... but unless it's something severe then each one is going to contribute fractions of a point up or down. But that full picture is going to be much more meaningful than a system that was designed for (and founded in) a different era.

VS ticks pretty much all the boxes of the existing criteria, but would falter on a number of the above - bringing the score down to a more realistic level.

(* sorry, Bryan did mention the "change" word... so seems as good a place as any to throw it into the pot)
 
Involvement with community - naturally there's some credit for CM participation, but a rep that is active on other communities is a positive also
Yeah thats why i love Trustpilot, makes my day complete :)
 
Yeah thats why i love Trustpilot, makes my day complete :)
:laugh: It would have helped with Kwiff at least - slight uptick for TP participation, major downswing for exposing customer information and rampant bad-faith accusations. Not that I had TP in mind here, but general wider "community" (e.g. other forums, you could include review sites as well but those tend to be less "balanced" anyway)

At least I didn't add "bad jokes" to the criteria... "well L&L would have scored really high, but Jan can't help himself with the jokes..." :cheerleader:
 
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At least I didn't add "bad jokes" to the criteria... "well L&L would have scored really high, but Jan can't help himself with the jokes..." :cheerleader:
Legend!
 
Interesting how many people are viewing this thread, or should we say possibly casino management lol.

Excitement for some and dread for others...lol

Quite a few certainly do need a good kick up the backside. 😂
 
... Meister Minions CAN rate these casinos - all they have to do is get busy doing that. ...
Just thinking out loud here but do we think the Minions still has relevance? From my point of view we're talking about something from a decade ago and maybe times have changed? I mean who wants to be a "minion" these days? Maybe if we rebranded it to "Meister Aloners" or "Meister Divas". :D :D :D
 
Just thinking out loud here but do we think the Minions still has relevance? From my point of view we're talking about something from a decade ago and maybe times have changed? I mean who wants to be a "minion" these days? Maybe if we rebranded it to "Meister Aloners" or "Meister Divas". :D :D :D
'Meister Anoraks' or 'Meister Celibates'
 
Just thinking out loud here but do we think the Minions still has relevance? From my point of view we're talking about something from a decade ago and maybe times have changed? I mean who wants to be a "minion" these days? Maybe if we rebranded it to "Meister Aloners" or "Meister Divas". :D :D :D
Meister Masters?
 
Maybe what is needed is an actual player voting system for the casino ratings. So say for example on the review page for a casino you can rate the casino yourself. So each sub category you can give it 1/10 stars then the code will average your total rating for that casino. Then all votes cast will also then be auto totalled?

Just a suggestion anyway. I know user generated ratings are not the best because people will give bad ratings on purpose and people will not trust them as much and think they are "faked" But I do think it would be a better system.
 
Maybe what is needed is an actual player voting system for the casino ratings. So say for example on the review page for a casino you can rate the casino yourself. So each sub category you can give it 1/10 stars then the code will average your total rating for that casino. Then all votes cast will also then be auto totalled?

Just a suggestion anyway. I know user generated ratings are not the best because people will give bad ratings on purpose and people will not trust them as much and think they are "faked" But I do think it would be a better system.
Nice idea but I think all casinos will be 3/10 as “nobody wins” and that doesn’t really work for a site looking to drive traffic and make revenue.
 
That side panel at the side does not even have MrQ in it. So Does that mean MrQ has below 7.7?

With MrQ the only good things about that casino is the design. withdraw times, max rtp.

They have a lot of negatives though. - Zero promotions, No live chat, Limited slot selection, Lacks slot providers. Picky in what slots they host. Do those negatives really give them such a low score?

I play there the most and bet365 is the second in my list I play at the most now since I quit VS brands. Pokerstars is 3rd in my list. But their site stinks and is super buggy even now using the downloaded client it is just as buggy. For example I login to the client, it then auto logs me out 5 mins later sometimes, so I then have to re-login again.
 
That side panel at the side does not even have MrQ in it. So Does that mean MrQ has below 7.7?

With MrQ the only good things about that casino is the design. withdraw times, max rtp.

They have a lot of negatives though. - Zero promotions, No live chat, Limited slot selection, Lacks slot providers. Picky in what slots they host. Do those negatives really give them such a low score?

I play there the most and bet365 is the second in my list I play at the most now since I quit VS brands. Pokerstars is 3rd in my list. But their site stinks and is super buggy even now using the downloaded client it is just as buggy. For example I login to the client, it then auto logs me out 5 mins later sometimes, so I then have to re-login again.
MrQ is not on the ratings on the side panel as it is not accredited here. Only accredited casinos are rated there.
 
MrQ is not on the ratings on the side panel as it is not accredited here. Only accredited casinos are rated there.

Ahh 10/10 for me not paying attention haha
 
You could have both a CM rating and a player rating.
Like they do on Rotten tomatoes, its neat being able to compare the audience score with the professional reviews.

That is even better idea than mine :)
 
The problem that you have with players and ratings (I wouldn't even factor sites like Trustpilot into the equation; though, with Casumo for example, you could pick up on common issues/worries) is players tend to think places they do well on, as well, great (baring they get paid). Eg. VS in terms of SOW and paying without worry are still one of the better casinos for non worry game play (oh, how the bar is low) but people shout about boycotting them as if they're withholding w/d's to ransom.

Whilst probably impossible to do, getting data/info on how zealous they are with SOW (eg. L and L, very strict; others, not so much - or adopt a different risk tolerance ) - it's likely to change (eg. the likes of Mr Q's fine has sent them into SOW hell). Makes a difference in where i'd play; moreso than non existent bonus's.

In terms of MM's - one thing that put me off is the process of adding comments/ratings - it would be good to click into the casino and post directly into pre-filled screens, rather than (yes, it's not that arduous but still) the current way - it's not that user friendly imo.
 
Whilst probably impossible to do, getting data/info on how zealous they are with SOW (eg. L and L, very strict; others, not so much .
This is an interesting debate. Do L&L and others (like us) who respect and adhere to the UK legislation get marked lower or is there an uplift in the rating for the fact they are regulated and care?

Would you prefer to play in a casino that goes through that process or avoid it?

(Sorry for the derail, but thought relevant)

Mark
 
This is an interesting debate. Do L&L and others (like us) who respect and adhere to the UK legislation get marked lower or is there an uplift in the rating for the fact they are regulated and care?

Would you prefer to play in a casino that goes through that process or avoid it?

(Sorry for the derail, but thought relevant)

Mark
Doesn't necessarily think that's the case Mark - there is nothing in the UK regs that says: SOW at 2k, yet some casino's have adopted that approach (happy to stand corrected)

Would i prefer to play at a casino that doesn't SOW me for depositing 20 quid a week and hitting this 2k limit and getting asking for my RBS? Yes, i would (hence, why after consideration of risk, i play mainly Crypto) :p

I take your point though - RG might be good for a casino (avoiding fines, showing they care:-p) but for normal players (with little evidence sometimes of gambling issues), it's a bit of a pain in the arse,
 
Doesn't necessarily think that's the case Mark - there is nothing in the UK regs that says: SOW at 2k, yet some casino's have adopted that approach (happy to stand corrected)

Would i prefer to play at a casino that doesn't SOW me for depositing 20 quid a week and hitting this 2k limit and getting asking for my RBS? Yes, i would (hence, why after consideration of risk, i play mainly Crypto) :p

I take your point though - RG might be good for a casino (avoiding fines, showing they care:p) but for normal players (with little evidence sometimes of gambling issues), it's a bit of a pain in the arse,
I’m not going to comment on the thresholds as that’s not necessarily set in stone, but my point was more about the aspect of going through the hassle of SOW with a place you like (I agree it’s a pain, I’ve done it) and then having somewhere you are comfortable with, rather than a crypto or somewhere else where you’re not verified where a win might be in jeapordy?

Personally, and I understand I’m in the minority I think, I play with places who have asked me to validate my spend as I know it’s going to potentially bite me otherwise. Granted my number of sites have reduced because of that, I don’t want to send docs everywhere and some processes were better than others, but I play more confident somewhere where I’ve got a relationship rather than dipping my toes elsewhere. The operators that do the compliance stuff best will do well. We’re trying hard to be the best, but it’s not easy!
 
Doesn't necessarily think that's the case Mark - there is nothing in the UK regs that says: SOW at 2k, yet some casino's have adopted that approach (happy to stand corrected)

Would i prefer to play at a casino that doesn't SOW me for depositing 20 quid a week and hitting this 2k limit and getting asking for my RBS? Yes, i would (hence, why after consideration of risk, i play mainly Crypto) :p

I take your point though - RG might be good for a casino (avoiding fines, showing they care:p) but for normal players (with little evidence sometimes of gambling issues), it's a bit of a pain in the arse,
Side note and sorry for the double post, why would you be reluctant to share the docs?
 
I’m not going to comment on the thresholds as that’s not necessarily set in stone, but my point was more about the aspect of going through the hassle of SOW with a place you like (I agree it’s a pain, I’ve done it) and then having somewhere you are comfortable with, rather than a crypto or somewhere else where you’re not verified where a win might be in jeapordy?

Personally, and I understand I’m in the minority I think, I play with places who have asked me to validate my spend as I know it’s going to potentially bite me otherwise. Granted my number of sites have reduced because of that, I don’t want to send docs everywhere and some processes were better than others, but I play more confident somewhere where I’ve got a relationship rather than dipping my toes elsewhere. The operators that do the compliance stuff best will do well. We’re trying hard to be the best, but it’s not easy!
Primarily because the casino, unlike a bank, isn't lending me money so (imo) have no right to question the in's and out's of my banking arrangements. Also, i don't trust casino's to hold the information securely - you can see that by even accredited casinos asking you to email them over, w/o end to end encryption or a secure upload facility.

Been plenty a casino, even accredited here, are asking for it before w/d's still and then asking, in some cases, for named parties in the bank records to supply stuff (can't remember the casino) - so, any casino that adopts (and you alluded to it, aren't set in stone, aka are set arbitrarily by the casino brand based on their risk tolerance) such an approach is a no no for me.

Do i want to engage in: what's this, what's that when it comes to review? No chance.

Personally i think applying arbitrary SOW thresholds is quite lazy - it's easier than a risk based approach, using multiple data points, granted, so i guess that's why some places do it that way.

I do feel a bit of sympathy (though, not much :p ) for casinos regarding it as any 'discretion' in applying
regulatory compliance can be challenged.

Sidebar ended :p
 
Primarily because the casino, unlike a bank, isn't lending me money so (imo) have no right to question the in's and out's of my banking arrangements. Also, i don't trust casino's to hold the information securely - you can see that by even accredited casinos asking you to email them over, w/o end to end encryption or a secure upload facility.

Been plenty a casino, even accredited here, are asking for it before w/d's still and then asking, in some cases, for named parties in the bank records to supply stuff (can't remember the casino) - so, any casino that adopts (and you alluded to it, aren't set in stone, aka are set arbitrarily by the casino brand based on their risk tolerance) such an approach is a no no for me.

Do i want to engage in: what's this, what's that when it comes to review? No chance.

Personally i think applying arbitrary SOW thresholds is quite lazy - it's easier than a risk based approach, using multiple data points, granted, so i guess that's why some places do it that way.

I do feel a bit of sympathy (though, not much :p ) for casinos regarding it as any 'discretion' in applying
regulatory compliance can be challenged.

Sidebar ended :p

BIB - That got me thinking, imagine a casino that was a lender as well. You signup and apply for "credit" Play on the casino if you win you pay back the "credit with interest".

I wonder why that has not happened yet? Afterall casinos already do soft searches on peoples credit records lol

I know it is stupid thought but I bet there would be a lot of takers to this model.
 
BIB - That got me thinking, imagine a casino that was a lender as well. You signup and apply for "credit" Play on the casino if you win you pay back the "credit with interest".

I wonder why that has not happened yet? Afterall casinos already do soft searches on peoples credit records lol

I know it is stupid thought but I bet there would be a lot of takers to this model.
It used to be a thing! I’m sure it still is outside of the UK too.
 
wow I never saw a casino that offered credit lol
Well I might have got this wrong for casino but when I started in the industry in a bookmakers we had plenty of customers who had credit accounts they would pay off at the end of the month. It was pretty standard. Always a crazy one for ante-post bets. “I’ll have £100 on Man City to win the league” in August and not have to pay/get the win until end of season.
 
Well I might have got this wrong for casino but when I started in the industry in a bookmakers we had plenty of customers who had credit accounts they would pay off at the end of the month. It was pretty standard. Always a crazy one for ante-post bets. “I’ll have £100 on Man City to win the league” in August and not have to pay/get the win until end of season.

Ahh ok makes sense in bookies, I never been into a bookie so never knew.
 
Back to the rating system:

The system in place now works, but it needs to be improved. We should not be reinventing the wheel here since a number of comments have already been dealt with in the past. And some suggestions have either been done or thrown out.

The reason I created the Meister Minions was to ensure we have quality input from experienced players, not off the wall comments from disgruntled players with unhelpful, unqualified comments, (which most competing sites encourage.). The MMs need an incentive to be involved, and managed properly. We have done this before - the only way to get people to involved is to give something in return. That is a cold fact - few care about doing stuff for free, they want incentives. So we have the engine already to go - it needs to be managed with prizes or other incentives to get folks involved. I have been battling this for a while now.

As for what to rate: it needs to be doable and realistic. We had this conversation in the MMs forum some time ago - I need to look at that. And the rating categories need to be measurable, at the moment the ratings are as follows:

Non-accredited casinos - ratings 1 - 5

Software

  • All Platforms = 5 (casino games, sports, poker, skill games, everything...)
  • Some Platforms (i.e. casino games, live games, poker) = 4
  • Few Platforms (i.e. slots, live games) = 3
  • All slots = 2
  • One provider (et al RTG) = 1

Jurisdiction 5 being outstanding - 1 being a shithole.
  • Kahnawake – 5
  • UKGC – 5
  • Alderney – 4
  • Isle of Man – 4
  • Malta (MGA)- 4
  • New Jersey – 4
  • Gibraltar – 3
  • Antigua – 2
  • Costa Rica – 2
  • Curacao
  • 8048/JAZ - 2
  • 365/JAZ - 2
  • 5536/JAZ - 1
  • 1668/JAZ – 0
  • Cyprus – 2

Reverse Time Reverse time should be replaced with perhaps availablity of RTP results, something like that. No one knows what reverse time is - they certainly did 10 years ago.

  • 0 hrs = 5
  • 1 – 12 hours = 4
  • 13 – 24 hours = 3
  • 25 – 48 hours = 2
  • +48 hours = 1

Cashout Time (this is applied to verified player cash outs)

  • 0 – 11 hours = 5
  • 12 – 23 hours = 4
  • 24 – 47 hours = 3
  • 48 – 71 hours = 2
  • 72 hours and higher = 1

Weekly withdrawal limits Loads of players over look this. Some may not care since they may be low rollers, but normal players, or high rollers can be caught off guard with low weekly withdrawal limits. Playing back their winnings is a common outcome. No one rates this as far as I know.

  • No limit = 5
  • 10,000 or higher = 4
  • 5001 – 9999 = 3
  • 3001 – 5000 = 2
  • 2000 – 3000 = 1

Responsiveness to complaints This applies to the casino rep, or when we have a PAB and need some answers.

  • Super responsive - within hours = 5
  • Responsive - 12 - 24 hours = 4
  • Medium - 25 - 36 hours =3
  • Meh = 36 - 72 hrs = 2
  • A week or longer = 1 or 0

Meister Points These are our incentives for the casino operator to get busy at Casinomeister.

  • Meister awards +1
  • Posting timely and helpful replies to complaints +1
  • Engaging the membership with interesting and insightful discourse. +1
  • Posting exclusive promos. +1
  • Maintaining an attitude that reflects the Casinomeister Philosophy +1

So this is applied to ALL non Accredited casinos. These numbers are averaged out for their CM score which is 1 - 10.

As soon as a casino becomes accredited, they are rated in the same categories, but other MEASURABLE categories are used - these include:

  • Weekend payouts y/n
  • Lock winnings on request when withdrawing (known as flushing) y/n
  • The length of time that the casino has been established is also computed into the score. The longer a casino stays in business, the better.
The Meister Minions already have a forum where they can add their input and scores. All they need to do is get busy. The only drawback at the moment is most of this is done by hand, except for the Accred scores which are automated via that formula.

I have been here long enough to know that it is rare for anyone to do anything for free - so yeah, who wants to be a Meister Minion when there is nothing but a badge to wear? When we had monthly drawings fo the top MMs who were active - well that worked. I am sure something can be done here. :thumbsup:
 
wow I never saw a casino that offered credit lol

When I worked land based (long time ago) we offered credit to a select few customers.

Credit cap was (I think) based on their history of previous visits which was kept a close but not 100% check of.

For example if they'd done 3 visits in a 2 week spell and lost 3K, they'd be offered around 50% of this as a credit / loan to play with in the casino.

I know also we used to cash cheques with no guarantee cards
 
Back to the rating system:

The system in place now works, but it needs to be improved. We should not be reinventing the wheel here since a number of comments have already been dealt with in the past. And some suggestions have either been done or thrown out.

The reason I created the Meister Minions was to ensure we have quality input from experienced players, not off the wall comments from disgruntled players with unhelpful, unqualified comments, (which most competing sites encourage.). The MMs need an incentive to be involved, and managed properly. We have done this before - the only way to get people to involved is to give something in return. That is a cold fact - few care about doing stuff for free, they want incentives. So we have the engine already to go - it needs to be managed with prizes or other incentives to get folks involved. I have been battling this for a while now.

As for what to rate: it needs to be doable and realistic. We had this conversation in the MMs forum some time ago - I need to look at that. And the rating categories need to be measurable, at the moment the ratings are as follows:

Non-accredited casinos - ratings 1 - 5

Software

  • All Platforms = 5 (casino games, sports, poker, skill games, everything...)
  • Some Platforms (i.e. casino games, live games, poker) = 4
  • Few Platforms (i.e. slots, live games) = 3
  • All slots = 2
  • One provider (et al RTG) = 1

Jurisdiction 5 being outstanding - 1 being a shithole.
  • Kahnawake – 5
  • UKGC – 5
  • Alderney – 4
  • Isle of Man – 4
  • Malta (MGA)- 4
  • New Jersey – 4
  • Gibraltar – 3
  • Antigua – 2
  • Costa Rica – 2
  • Curacao
  • 8048/JAZ - 2
  • 365/JAZ - 2
  • 5536/JAZ - 1
  • 1668/JAZ – 0
  • Cyprus – 2

Reverse Time Reverse time should be replaced with perhaps availablity of RTP results, something like that. No one knows what reverse time is - they certainly did 10 years ago.

  • 0 hrs = 5
  • 1 – 12 hours = 4
  • 13 – 24 hours = 3
  • 25 – 48 hours = 2
  • +48 hours = 1

Cashout Time (this is applied to verified player cash outs)

  • 0 – 11 hours = 5
  • 12 – 23 hours = 4
  • 24 – 47 hours = 3
  • 48 – 71 hours = 2
  • 72 hours and higher = 1

Weekly withdrawal limits Loads of players over look this. Some may not care since they may be low rollers, but normal players, or high rollers can be caught off guard with low weekly withdrawal limits. Playing back their winnings is a common outcome. No one rates this as far as I know.

  • No limit = 5
  • 10,000 or higher = 4
  • 5001 – 9999 = 3
  • 3001 – 5000 = 2
  • 2000 – 3000 = 1

Responsiveness to complaints This applies to the casino rep, or when we have a PAB and need some answers.

  • Super responsive - within hours = 5
  • Responsive - 12 - 24 hours = 4
  • Medium - 25 - 36 hours =3
  • Meh = 36 - 72 hrs = 2
  • A week or longer = 1 or 0

Meister Points These are our incentives for the casino operator to get busy at Casinomeister.

  • Meister awards +1
  • Posting timely and helpful replies to complaints +1
  • Engaging the membership with interesting and insightful discourse. +1
  • Posting exclusive promos. +1
  • Maintaining an attitude that reflects the Casinomeister Philosophy +1

So this is applied to ALL non Accredited casinos. These numbers are averaged out for their CM score which is 1 - 10.

As soon as a casino becomes accredited, they are rated in the same categories, but other MEASURABLE categories are used - these include:

  • Weekend payouts y/n
  • Lock winnings on request when withdrawing (known as flushing) y/n
  • The length of time that the casino has been established is also computed into the score. The longer a casino stays in business, the better.
The Meister Minions already have a forum where they can add their input and scores. All they need to do is get busy. The only drawback at the moment is most of this is done by hand, except for the Accred scores which are automated via that formula.

I have been here long enough to know that it is rare for anyone to do anything for free - so yeah, who wants to be a Meister Minion when there is nothing but a badge to wear? When we had monthly drawings fo the top MMs who were active - well that worked. I am sure something can be done here. :thumbsup:
Well vent to have a look see if i had forgot to rate any of the casinos i mostly play
But couldnt find the top rated casino in there Winz for some reason ? 🙂
 
Attributing decimal scoring out of ten seems to go in and out of fashion, but does appear antiquated, and everything below e.g '7.7' redundant to players, seeing this as flawed compared to the '9+'-rated casinos in a sidebar!

Players will also forego any objectivity when losing at a 'great' casino, whilst praising a 'poor' one that has paid them. Couple that with Trustpilot-esque open comments, it's pretty much impossible to garner any sense of authenticity in the modern bot- and shill-infested landscape.

For ease of use it'd be far less cluttered if casinos fell into three or four categories, like the aforementioned 'Best of the Best' or simple headers like 'Essential and 'Recommended', with the remainder of casinos not bearing any of those down to player discretion.

Data should ideally be collected and curated by somewhat seasoned players at that joint when factored in to any scoring system, with Johnny-come-latelies not able to hijack proceedings. If anything, it's these minions that are the real guidance, and their input all that matters. I'd also look to have that membership reviewed as many have likely moved on from their posts!
 
You could have both a CM rating and a player rating.
Like they do on Rotten tomatoes, its neat being able to compare the audience score with the professional reviews.
The problem with this is we still end up in a situation where the CM rating is largely static, and if a casino declines, the user rating will be out of whack with the CM rating. This leave things over to interpretation (eg are the low user ratings primarily from losing players).

In saying the above, I don’t have a better solution.
 
The problem with this is we still end up in a situation where the CM rating is largely static, and if a casino declines, the user rating will be out of whack with the CM rating. This leave things over to interpretation (eg are the low user ratings primarily from losing players).

In saying the above, I don’t have a better solution.
The scores should be reviewed on a monthly or biweekly plan. That should not be a prob. I do that - but my days are numbers here :p :eek2:
 

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