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Mansion group voids 24K on false information VIPHOST

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by GamblerXXXl, May 21, 2015.

    May 21, 2015
  1. GamblerXXXl

    GamblerXXXl Dormant account PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    real estate
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Hi Guys,

    I just wants the forum to be aware of this casino and tell you what has happened to me. Let me explain first that I am a loyal player of the mansion group since 2011 and never had any issues with this casino until now.

    The last year I was playing extremely high stakes at the mansion group I think I roughly deposited over 60K. In the past half year I had some wins and they payed 10K in 1 day if I had a winning session, so I was very happy with the service of this casino they made like an elite vip player, so i was getting great offers every day and played them. I had vip host on the phone with new offers in the chat gave some cool offers they just wanted me to keep playing. I was all down for that, I had a hot run last month and won quiet a few sessions I was keep getting payed and it was all cool. So i got an special offers from my vip hostest only when I looked at the terms of the bonus I saw this rule

    "If you bet more than £/€/$5 per spin and £/€/$0.5 per bet line on any game round on any slots or videopoker games, while wagering funds that are associated with a deposit bonus, the bonus and winnings may be voided."

    So I asked my vip host right away if there was any problem with this rule I will copy paste my chat so the forum can read it.

    "
    Host.: Okay I can offer you a 50% reload, and 50euro on top if you play with 500 or more

    player: ok that sounds good

    host.: Okay, just notify us prior to placing a deposit and we can add the bonus for you

    player: ok

    player: wherare the terms

    host: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    host.: There you go, it has standard wagering requirement of 40 and it is non redeemable

    player: is it a vip bonus?

    host.: It is a bonus for a vip member

    player: I see this rule If you bet more than £/€/$5 per spin and £/€/$0.5 per bet line on any game round on any slots or videopoker games, while wagering funds that are associated with a deposit bonus, the bonus and winnings may be voided.

    player: can I only bet 5?

    Host.: No, you may bet as much as you want, as long as there is no pure bonus abusive gameplay we will not void the winnings

    Host.: However you can maximumly bet 20% of the bonus, so if the bonus is 100$ you cannot place a bet above 20$
    "

    Chat continues to talk about some other stuff....

    After that I deposited 1000 euro and got a 550 bonus as I finished the session I had a 24K I only cashed out a small amount and kept playing with the rest to win even more, only a few days later when they want to process my money I got the email that my money has been void on the 5 euro max bet rule. I bet over 5 euro that is but I kept playing with same bet size, that I always play, I was always played with this same playstyle in the years before. Now I have a winning streak and they instantly voids my winnings when I am losing everything is fine but when you are winnings they start to do dirty tricks to not pay you, so for every other player that plays high stakes like me, not fall for this trick of the vip support.

    It's under review by higher management now, I sent the full chat to them to read it this was 5 weeks ago still didn't got a responds...
     
    7 people like this.
  2. May 21, 2015
  3. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That is disgraceful..

    They have a rep here I believe - contact him asap
     
    5 people like this.
  4. May 21, 2015
  5. coxwel

    coxwel Senior Member PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    germany
    They shouldn´t try palying these games with one of their loyal customers, if the lady in chat told you do not worry "bet as you wish" its pretty poor if they pull this stunt on you now. I think you have a good case as you have the chat transcript and they offered you sth personal as you´re vip with them. Vip treatment should also mean "no bs" ;) A guy dropping 60k should not be bothered with this, in my opinion they would be better off by powdering your *** ;) Happy customer likely comes back and drops another 60k ^^

    I really hope "higher management" is serious and pays you in full.

    Keep us posted..
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
    7 people like this.
  6. Jun 2, 2015
  7. GamblerXXXl

    GamblerXXXl Dormant account PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    real estate
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Hey Guys,

    Got an answer from the Mansion group that they are going to sort things out for me, it was a good conversation, I will keep the forum posted on the status of my issue...
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 2, 2015
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I don't care whether they 'sort things out' or if they pay you. You were (past tense I hope) a big depositor and a 'VIP' yet they shafted you and took 5 weeks to attempt to sort it for you despite you having proved the CS told you that you could bet up to 20% of bonus.

    I'd take the cash-out if they pay, tell 'em where to stick their bonuses and account and find somewhere else that actually values a VIP even when, God forbid, they win.

    Look how Redbet treated Nate on his recent run of massive wins - THAT'S how you treat a VIP player.:thumbsup:

    P.S.
    Playtech games generally have poor RTP's, especially Marvel ones.
    Playtech happily provide software to rogue casinos.
    Playtech have more casinos in the pit/not recommended here than any other software.
    Playtech happily allow casinos to withhold jackpot winnings and drip-feed them to the 'lucky' winner.
    Playtech - only casinos that are good are few and far between.
    Playtech casinos routinely (not all) have 96-hour pending periods.
    Playtech take over the platform of places that previously had MG (Like Ladbrokes) and IGT (Like Boyle) and things seem to slowly turn to ratsh!t.

    Guess which casinos I NEVER join?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
    2 people like this.
  10. Jun 2, 2015
  11. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    The default in the Playtech software is indeed 96 hrs although Mansion have set theirs to 48hrs and, with some VIPs, used to reduce further although not played recently so not sure if that is still the case.

    Regards the OP, this is quite unusual as normally a casino will bend over backwards to keep a VIP playing and relax loyalty bonus rules because they know you will stick around.
     
  12. Jun 5, 2015
  13. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I believe mansion group was in the (no can do list) Cannot seem to find them now?

    Nether trust a CS help desk, There is very few that actually know what there talking about (Sorry for you good ones out there) Giving you a poxy 50% bonus should have been a clue to stay well clear,

    Also do abit of reserch if deposit that sort of cash, I know you said you was paid a few times but thats what alot do, They wind you in on false hopes than take you to the cleaners
     
  14. Jun 5, 2015
  15. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    This was not just the CS desk but a VIP host assigned to the OP. In either case, players must be able to rely on the info told by CS and if false info is given, the casino is responsible for not honouring its info/promises.
     
  16. Jun 5, 2015
  17. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I agree, But note that VIP host are just another CS in disguise to take cash from you, Make it look abit better,

    I like it how they offerd it than after deposit they use the excuse about speaking to manager? Why not do that b4 hand or better still actually know something, I belive its a fast one any way, VIP / chat host / manager is the same knob, You do not get that sort of thing with sites such as 32 or guts, If you do than its sorted, They stick there hands up
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 5, 2015
  19. conker

    conker Senior Member CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Marketer
    Location:
    UK
    I echo the statements of many by adding that this is really poor form by a casino. Total short term gain for long term loss.

    Mansion Group, like others that have taken a kicking on the forum recently have been around for 10 plus years and should know better. Maybe back in the good ol' days you could get away with treating players like this, but certainly not anymore.

    For the OP's sake I am glad they have sorted it out now. Now take Dunover's advice and find a better place to spend your money.
     
  20. Jun 24, 2015
  21. GamblerXXXl

    GamblerXXXl Dormant account PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    real estate
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Mansion wants to pay me 5000 to keep my mounth shut.

    Hi Guys,

    Sorry for the long wait I have been out allot for business, plus there were some long (slow) communications from the Lesa casino VIP managers. They offered me me to settle for a 5000 payment and I didn't accepted it. I feel I have been treated unjustified by this casino and want to let all high rollers like myself know NEVER to play at this casino again. They have made threats that they will take legal action against me if I decided to post again on this forum. As I feel that the gambling community is entitled to this information and I am also hoping to get some feedback and help from the Casinomeister forum at the same time, I still wanted to write this post.

    After my post here on Casinomeister I finally received an answer from the Mansion group it's started out with
    "You have already publicized this dispute in the Casinomeister Forum, therefore we have already experienced damage to our reputation." the next thing they told me is that the legal team looked into it and that only the T&C is binding nothing else. They called it a inadvertent miscommunication coming from agent. I don't know if this is inadvertent or misleading to get big deposits in the casino and never willing to pay if there is money to be won. I call it a big FRAUD mechanism to trick in players and void there money!!

    They did make a me a really generous purpose (their words) about the "misunderstanding" an ex gratia payment of € 5,000 in full and final settlement, upon your signing a settlement letter and contact the Casinomeister Forum to inform them that there was a misunderstanding on my behalf and that I want to retract my complaint. I was totally not agreeing on up this settlement but I thought let me read it and see what they want me to do and that just blew my hat straight off, let me posts some quotes as they already treated to take legal action against me if I would expose the full letter.

    "the Player accepts that it has no outstanding claims or disputes with the Company and the Player will not take any actions against the Company"

    "time in the future, except for as follows: player will post a message on the Casinomeister forum, in response to his original complaint, stating that there was a misunderstanding on his behalf and the issue has been satisfactorily resolved."

    Mansion is trying to get me to say it is my fault to not pay me in full. I believed I didn't do anything wrong so I didn't accept this offer. I had some communications with VIP managers and they just telling me that is was under higher review and I have to wait a couple of days longer, after some back and forth emailing they gave me their final response.

    "Thank you for your patience whilst our management team reviewed your account.
    After a lengthy review and considering all facts, the management team have upheld the initial decision and not refund you your winnings was an inadvertent misunderstanding from our Customer Support team, but the terms and conditions are binding.

    Furthermore the ex-gratia payment offered they felt was suitable compensation for a communications misunderstanding that took place"

    In every mail from Mansion casino they said just go to the regulator file you complaint over there the Gibraltar Gambling Commissioner, I never heard of them I don't know if that regulator is fair and honest but if they are so pushy for it I think it has to be a lost case with for me. I am outrages and willing to take action against this casino so if anyone has a good lawyer on Gibraltar that is trusted and not lives under the same roof with this casino, I would be happy to get PM :), as I heard way to many stories about ppl paying a lawyer and starting the case and never hearing back from these lawyers again.

    Any help, advice is appreciated
     
  22. Jun 24, 2015
  23. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    This reminds me of the multi-million jackpot win where a lady signed a letter and wrote off a significant amount of her winnings :mad:

    One reason why I have not used PlayTech for years and never will again.

    I hope you reach a resolution and/or the Gibraltar Authorities uphold your claim.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jun 24, 2015
  25. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Mantion group is already no go in this site, There are are few that running from them wich I pontined out some yraer back,

    I notable to read that bit but will be back and get bit help
     
  26. Jun 25, 2015
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Definitely a miscommunication, they should fire the incompetent VIP host that said the player could bet up to 20% of the bonus as it is they that caused this whole mess in the first place. They have very little wriggle room because the player made it pretty clear what their query was, and asked for the answer to be repeated in a couple of different ways through slightly different questioning in order to be absolutely sure.

    In effect, an agent for the company agreed on behalf of the company a bespoke variation for this specific deposit, and the player made it clear that his decision to deposit was down to the agreement made with the host, whereas they would not have deposited had the standard terms been confirmed as being applicable by the host.

    Of course they want the Gibraltar authorities to mediate, they are not truly independent and will most likely rule in favour of the casino, regardless of the probability that this would violate the EU directive on consumer protection legislation (which makes Gibraltar rather convenient for casino operators as they don't necessarily have to abide by all the EU rules and regulations due to an unusual status with the EU held by Gibraltar).

    They probably feel confidently well insulated from legal action from players, but equally they probably won't want to follow through with their counter threats either, it would be as tricky for them as it is for you taking them to court in Gibraltar. They are probably looking at libel, but so long as you confine yourself to the truth, and have evidence to back it up, you are not in too much danger, hence they are trying the tactic of paying you 5000 to make you go away.

    Tell them you will accept 24K in full and final settlement, you will even let them call it a "good will gesture without admission of liability", and will post here upon receipt that this has been dealt with to your full satisfaction.
     
    5 people like this.
  28. Jun 25, 2015
  29. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    @GamblerXXXl

    Really glad you ignored the the bit about posting here, But if they knew about posts than than they should also know about post not being able to delete,

    Take a look at pogs rating
    Trustworthiness: 2/10
    Payout Speed: 3/10
    Customer Service: 9/10
    Bonuses: 3/10
    Software: 10/10
    Slot House Edge: 10/10
    Comp Points: 2/10
    Licensing: 6/10
    Overall: 5.3

    Cs would be good with payouts at that rate just to wind you in and talk bullshit to you, I have just seen that they are U.K license which I did not know about, I also no a few briefs but they wouldn't know about this sort sort of stuff,
     
  30. Jun 25, 2015
  31. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight MM

    Occupation:
    Nothing much
    Location:
    PokieLand
    I really don't understand casinos that do this.

    You have a player that deposits $1000 in ONE deposit!!!
    The poor bastard gets lucky and hits a win... (he's not even going to be even with all he lost in the casino).

    And then I don't know, what's happening with the casino at that point?

    Are they having a council? Sitting around a bonfire passing the peace pipe, smoking and asking one another:
    - Should we pay him?
    - Neah, not this one... what's the worst he can do?

    The OP, after winning the 24k, I am almost certain he would deposit another 10-20k easily in the same casino in the next few months... because - gambling...
    They just lost a valuable customer that actually made them money!

    Truly hope this will be solved in the OPs favor! Especially after the blackmailing part, which is truly disgraceful!
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jun 25, 2015
  33. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I hope it gets sorted in players favour, Offering 5k to keep mouth shut is a disgrace, I cannot guess what they do but it wil not be far of what you said and be sitting round a fire eating good meat,

    I personally would nether depost so much money and take a bonus, If I had that much to spare than it be a straight depo on a good site, What people doing depo thousands with a bonus? Is beyond me,

    I like a bonus but only deposit small, Why risk that sort of cash when so much to lose such as bet to much, Played our sister site, play wrong games & rest of bul shit, I know a grand or 2 is not much money to some people and belive me I have blown that away in a night going out but gambling it is a different stopry

     
  34. Jun 25, 2015
  35. Captain Chaos

    Captain Chaos Senior Member webby

    Occupation:
    Train Guard
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think the problem is that some casinos simply view customers as cannon fodder. They don't care because they believe that someone else will simply come along and fill the void. These are the casinos that should naturally be avoided but sadly, as we all know, people will always sign up with such establishments. This isn't of course the players fault. Most people on the street would consider, in this example, the casino to be highly reputable due to their previous high profile sponsorship deals (Tottenham Hotspur comes to mind). They will see that 32red sponsor Rangers and think 'these guys must be good. What can possibly go wrong?' Though, as we all know, plenty can go wrong. What is irritating though is that it doesn't just put off the player from the establishment that has tried to stiff them, it might put them off playing at other places or worse, consider these household names not much good and try unheard of clip joints.

    I really hope the OP gets this sorted. It's not way to treat any player and certainly not a high roller. Absolute madness to gamble with losing such a customer. Do these people not want to make money? The mind boggles sometimes...
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jun 25, 2015
  37. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    I think i would definately try Gibralter.

    You read the terms and even questioned those terms and was basically told to ignore them by the host, The host got it wrong and now they are trying to screw you out of 24K.:rolleyes:

    Isnt what they have done called Misrepresentation and covered under the Misrepresentation Act 1967. or is it different for online casino's operating out of Gibralter ?
    You must register/login in order to see the link.,

    It may also be time you speak to your own lawyer and see what they say. Although doing so and taking action will probably cost you more than whatever winnings you have and i expect the casino knows this, so are trying to bully you into taking the 5K

     
  38. Jun 25, 2015
  39. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight MM

    Occupation:
    Nothing much
    Location:
    PokieLand
    I would recommend the OP to do a PAB before contacting a lawyer.
    Hopefully Max will be able to sort things out for him.

    I agree with you Spintee, I usually spend all that money in land-based casinos only.
    I play with bonuses in online casinos, but smaller values on deposits, not to risk all that money, but it will add up to the same amount I spend in land-based casinos at one point...
     

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