Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[cyprean]

Anyway, about PAB, He is afraid in the future he might run into some problems for a bigger amount of money and don't want to hear "yes, sorry but you already did PAB". Can he PAB in the future when he does it now?

Just PAB. It's worth it. We will know how many players have been screwed.

Please be aware that all Fortune Lounge bonuses are allotted to players in good faith, in order to enrich their gaming experience, and not to be abused for profit.

That's a quote and a half. Somehow the "take our bonuses for an enriched losing experience" message seems to have got lost along the way to the promotion department, who simplified it to "100 free!"

It's mind boggling that a casino group that's been around for years suddenly seems to be coming round to the realisation that bonuses might give the player an edge (doh!). Attracting customers costs money - and shock, horror (!), not all the customers you attract with an offer will be the ones you want.

You're absolutely right. Bonuses are promoted very aggressively, do this and get this free. They work well, and help the casino to get players to try their software. Many times the player ends up coming back and depositing more and thus being a 'good customer'. The casinos could do other kind of marketing, but I guess the bonuses are a very effective to attract players' interest and get them in effectively. If a reputable casino offers these kind of bonuses they should keep their end of the deal. A LOSE-LOSE situation where by losing you and by winning you still lose is an absolute NO-NO.

 

[Tagdog]

That's a quote and a half. Somehow the "take our bonuses for an enriched losing experience" message seems to have got lost along the way to the promotion department, who simplified it to "100 free!"

It's mind boggling that a casino group that's been around for years suddenly seems to be coming round to the realisation that bonuses might give the player an edge (doh!). Attracting customers costs money - and shock, horror (!), not all the customers you attract with an offer will be the ones you want.

Online casinos are mind boggling, they seem to think they have a devine right to make a profit no matter how badly they run their business.

It's almost unreal that they pretend to have moral issues with players playing bonuses with a mathematical edge in their favour to make money.

Guess how your casino works Fortune Lounge - you use a mathematical edge in your favour to beat people who don't care / are daft enough to think they can beat it.

You complain about advantage players making minimum wagers to not risk too much money - well unless you remove all your table limits so that a lucky millionaire has the chance of busting your whole operation with one bet you're doing the same thing.

If you market your bonuses properly then you'll have no problems. You're mistakes lead to players making money, get over it, pay everyone owed money and market your business better.

 

[Holmer]

I am also experiencing this problem with the 7 Sultans casino. I won 426.5 EUR last Thursday, and all I got at my NETeller was the initioal deposit of 20 EUR...

Here's the story:

I immediately sent a mail regarding the incorrect withdrawal. The response:

I have reviewed your account and have noted that you have not met the wagering requirements on this bonus and therefore we have returned the $20 for the purchase you have made and the remaining $406-50 has been confiscated as you have not met the wagering requirements.

As stated in the terms and conditions these bonuses will then be lost as you have made a withdrawal to early.

As I was sure I had met the wagering I went on by asking how much I actually DID wager, and what the requirements was. The response:

The wagering requirement on the bonus that you have received is bonus x 30, $193.50 X 30 = $5805.

And in the next mail:

The total amount wagered before you made the withdrawal comes to €5920.50.

This made me confused since 5920.5 is more than enough for wagerng, so I replied asking what was going on. The respnose was surprising. Now they stoped claiming I wasn't finished with wagering, and instead they said I had played in ways which was against the terms & conditions. The response:

I have checked with the security company and have been informed that the bonus has been removed due to the fact that there were discrepancies found on your account in regards with the Terms and Conditions of the promotion. The casino then has the right to take back the bonus and give back your purchase of $20.

I replied by asking in what ways I was playing against their t&c. The response came directly from the floor-manager:

Hi Anton

My name is Codie and I am the Floor Manager at the Fortune Lounge.

The decision to lock your account was taken of as a result of bonus abuse. We have reviewed your accounts and found the following.

You registered the account on the 8th of March 2007 and made the minimum required purchase of €20 to receive the bonus transfer amount of €193.50. With these funds you placed a single bet off €210 on Baccarat, where after you moved to Black Jack and French Roulette. A withdrawal was made on the same date to the value of €450

The status of the account will not be reconsidered as playing 11609 number of hands on red at $1 a bet in a roulette game is highly unnatural and improbable for any bona fide player with intent to play with us in future. Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

You have displayed the same behavior as several other players and it is amazingly co-incidental that ALL of you had the same game pattern. Was this perhaps posted on some forum or did you hear about this from someone else? A syndicate maybe ? In the event that you did pick up.

Regards

Codie

Floor Manager

I replied asking why they didn't state that this way of playing was illegal in their t&c. The response:

Hi Anton



It is not stated in our Terms and Conditions as we do not have an issue with players playing these games. You were clearly using these games to abuse our bonuses and we have the full right to disallow you to play on our casinos.



As stated previously we will not reconsider the decision taken. Only your initial purchase of €20 will be refunded to your Neteller account.



Regards


Codie


Floor Manager

So basically I've been directly lied to twice, and still don't have my money... I just reported to eCOGRA, and I am about to PAB this one...

 

[Gaahl]

Man, after reading this I am glad I have only played 32RED the last few months... Seems like the only site out there that don't try to stiff you on every occasion they get..


Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[winbig]

Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

If you ask me, that is the EXACT definition of a gambler

I've been gambling for over 14 years, and I can't count the number of times I have placed all of my money on a single hand of blackjack - online OR off.

Seriously though,

If FL will not pay these players their winnings, they need to be taken back off the accredited list.

If they want to lock said accounts AFTER paying, then fine.

 

[vincenski]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

 

[winbig]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

I'd PAB...it's obvious they're not going to change their stance on this issue.

 

[cyprean]

Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler

. If you ask me, that is the EXACT definition of a gambler

I've been gambling for over 14 years, and I can't count the number of times I have placed all of my money on a single hand of blackjack - online OR off.

Seriously though, If FL will not pay these players their winnings, they need to be taken back off the accredited list.

If they want to lock said accounts AFTER paying, then fine.

Agree, agree and agree. Fortune Lounge is not making their point very clear - if a player players bets the minimun on red then that is not legit gamgling in Fortune Lounges mind. However if the player bets ALL of his balance in one hand then that is not gambling either. Fortune Lounge seems to have no case here, they are just trying find an poor excuse for the lock ups.

So far we haven't seen a case where a player has actually frauded the casino . All the stories here have included winning with a bonus, which is not in my mind fraud if the group actively promotes the bonuses.

Like I said earlier I believe that Fortune Lounge should pay all those real players who won with a bonus. If they want to ban them afterwards, go for it. Fraudsters (if there were even any) should not be paid.

In any case this has changed my opinion of the Fortune Lounge group. I used to think that they could be trusted to handle things fairly. This seems not to be the case anymore. Their security department has gone too far.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

The FL rep told me today that he will no longer be participating in the forum. If you want to contact their help desk, you can do so here: support@casinodesk.com

PAB here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

and contact eCOGRA here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[casinocide]

Stolen funds

Well it certainly looks like a number of people have been completely railed by this unscrupulous group and their half baked, improvised excuses to commit grand larceny. As far as I'm concerned when a casino steals money from you and you haven't done anything fraudulent, then you have a right to get that money back. It's not murder if you accidently kill a crack head who just stuck a gun in your side and told you to give him all of your money.

This whole thread is completley dispicable and IMO totally representative of how this depraved, largely worthless industry views its societal role and the contemptuous view it holds towards its customers.

I've personally never had a problem with FL and actually thought they were one of the better groups on the internet. Of course even a docile lion is still a predator. You would be on guard leaving your children with a known child rapist no matter how nice and civil he seemed so you should also be on alert leaving your money with FL or any other web casino with very few exceptions.

Why PAB? For all of you legitimate players who just got ripped by these sleaze-bags-by-nature why don't you check your mail in the next couple days. You should be recieving a blank check with Selborne LTD written at the top. If some drug fiend street thug had a gun to my side, I would do some shooting of my own.

 

[vincenski]

The FL rep told me today that he will no longer be participating in the forum. If you want to contact their help desk, you can do so here: support@casinodesk.com

PAB here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

and contact eCOGRA here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok thanks Already contected casinodesk yesterday and they mailed me that they close my account and dont return even my deposit, so thats gonna be a PAB (sorry for the post overflow, just wanted to know if a PAB was right! )

 

[BBKPoker]

What is even more unacceptable (as if stealing money from players who play within the bonus terms and conditions wasn't bad enough) is that their term states specifically that ALL monies, INCLUDING purchases are forfeit to the casino. In other words, if they make a subjective decision that they do not like the way you play their bonuses and regardless of whether your bonus play is in line with their terms and conditions, they will not only NOT give you your winnings, but they'll keep your deposit too.

I mean come on...................

 

[NextToYou]

ROGUE, plz.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well it certainly looks like a number of people have been completely railed by this unscrupulous group and their half baked, improvised excuses to commit grand larceny. As far as I'm concerned when a casino steals money from you and you haven't done anything fraudulent, then you have a right to get that money back. It's not murder if you accidently kill a crack head who just stuck a gun in your side and told you to give him all of your money.

This whole thread is completley dispicable and IMO totally representative of how this depraved, largely worthless industry views its societal role and the contemptuous view it holds towards its customers.

I've personally never had a problem with FL and actually thought they were one of the better groups on the internet. Of course even a docile lion is still a predator. You would be on guard leaving your children with a known child rapist no matter how nice and civil he seemed so you should also be on alert leaving your money with FL or any other web casino with very few exceptions.

Why PAB? For all of you legitimate players who just got ripped by these sleaze-bags-by-nature why don't you check your mail in the next couple days. You should be recieving a blank check with Selborne LTD written at the top. If some drug fiend street thug had a gun to my side, I would do some shooting of my own.

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense. It seems that FL has let themselves become vulnerable to players that they don't want, and they have taken the initiative to ban these players. It's within their right to do so. The problem is specifically how to deal with these players' winnings.

If any player is going to complain in the forum, then they should PAB as well so we can get a sense on how much fraudulent activity occurred. I believe that there were accusations of multiple accounts, false ID etc. These players will be identified, and if they are members of this forum they will be booted.

Remember, this isn't a free-for-all ho-down. We're here to try and solve a problem or to set things straight. Analogies to crack heads, shooting people, and child rapists have no place here.

 

[powerball]

As I stated before, if it is a problem with ID's I can take a picture of myself infront of the housenumber I live in holding my ID. Is that good enough or is it still fraudlent?

When do you reckon we get some kind of answer to our PAB Casinomeister? Don't wanna rush you, I would just like to have an estimate

 

[GOCC]

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense. It seems that FL has let themselves become vulnerable to players that they don't want, and they have taken the initiative to ban these players. It's within their right to do so. The problem is specifically how to deal with these players' winnings.

If any player is going to complain in the forum, then they should PAB as well so we can get a sense on how much fraudulent activity occurred. I believe that there were accusations of multiple accounts, false ID etc. These players will be identified, and if they are members of this forum they will be booted.

Remember, this isn't a free-for-all ho-down. We're here to try and solve a problem or to set things straight. Analogies to crack heads, shooting people, and child rapists have no place here.

With the upmost respect to you Bryan, you do seem to be putting spin on it as being the players fault with the way the above post reads.

The email sent by codie to the player quite basically says, we didnt like the way you played so go away. You can have your deposit back. Will they be refunding all the deposits of the losers big initial bets

The FL rep says he is no longer participating in the forum. Is that the forum in general or just this thread. Just it seems to me to be a case of got caught with his trousers round his ankles and aint coming back.

Like I said, they have locked some of my accounts which I am not too bothered about. Just it seems like they want to control everyones spending. If a pub offers 3 budweiser for a fiver on a Tuesday night and on wednesday the one down the road does 4 for 6 quid, would the pub bar me on the following Tuesday. No, stupid to suggest isnt it. But this is exactly what this group are doing.

Why when you go to one of their websites then close the box, does a pop up appear advertising every bonus in the group??
We wont know coz the rep is having his ass spanked as we speak (Metaphorically )sic))

 

[casinocide]

chill out

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense.

Yea, you're probably right. When I read threads like this I can feel my blood start to boil, and I probably don't have all the info. Casinos have the right to protect themselves from fraud and that means confiscating winnings if fraud is discovered.

The analogies may be bizzare here, as I stated I have personally never had a problem with FL, but they are highly applicable elsewhere in situations that I have experienced that closesly resemble the accounts of players in this thread. It sounds like FL is way overreacting and that they don't have a handle on the potential consequences of thier own actions.

I don't retract a thing I said either. If a player is legitimate and the casino chooses to steal thier money, then it is a free for all ho down in the most Texan sense of the phrase.

 

[Vesuvio]

The status of the account will not be reconsidered as playing 11609 number of hands on red at $1 a bet in a roulette game is highly unnatural and improbable for any bona fide player with intent to play with us in future. Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

You have displayed the same behavior as several other players and it is amazingly co-incidental that ALL of you had the same game pattern. Was this perhaps posted on some forum or did you hear about this from someone else? A syndicate maybe ?

At least we can be grateful for Fortune Lounge for being blatant about what they're doing. If they'd been more experienced rogues they'd have remained vague and simply hinted at fraud (their rep's left long after the horse bolted). As it is there's no room for doubt.

re: the floor manager's comments - obviously it's reprehensible to confiscate funds on the basis of play patterns, but it's also interesting to observe the stupidity of the comments on the "amazing coincidence". Sure, these things are posted on some forums (just as winning roulette systems, slot systems and so on are posted), but if you think for a nanosecond or two why a large group of players starts playing that way you'd realise that it's simply because that's more or less the best way to play the bonus (if you want to win, as many players do ). It's not rocket science, any more than it was a stunning coincidence that in the old days people would play BJ, or then VP and so on.

 

[Casinomeister]

With the upmost respect to you Bryan, you do seem to be putting spin on it as being the players fault with the way the above post reads..

Sorry - no spin intended. I'm just trying not to use any subjective language. If that seems like spin, well what the hell.

As for the thread and chilling out, threads like this tend to spin into a pile of crap when people get all riled up. I am in the process of making some serious inquiries and comments concerning child rapists don't help.

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

 

[lojo]

I've followed this thread and read every previous post by FortuneLounge. IMO it was wise of him to exit this fray.

If you have a dog in the hunt, PAB and trust the CM process. If you just want to vent, I'd don't think it's doing anyone any good. Just my opinion, but there is no new information coming out of many repeat contributors here, just opinions and inflammations. That is not leverage.

I'm new here, but trust me, I see the very real value of open, honest, and transparent Reps to this forum and would hate to see one disappear for good.

No sense to flame me, cuz homey don't play that. Post all ya want, it's really none of my business. All I'm saying is that it is probably in everyone's best interest to trust the process.

 

[winbig]

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

Just curious, do you find that acceptable? Especially for those that have met the WR and followed the T&C to the letter, nor have multiple accounts, as well as having their ID documents in order, etc?

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks

 

[NextToYou]

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

Sounds like a good business to me. Every other player who deposits, lets say $50, loses his bet and therefore casino gets $50 win. That other half, which happens to win, casino refunds their initial $50 deposits so casino loses nothing. Oh god, I want to be in this kind of a business too.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just curious, do you find that acceptable? Especially for those that have met the WR and followed the T&C to the letter, nor have multiple accounts, as well as having their ID documents in order, etc?

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks

I think that getting their deposits back is a good first step.

 

[winbig]

I think that getting their deposits back is a good first step.

Cool beans....as long as it's not the final step.

 

[lojo]

...

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks