Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[JALaw]

Locked Account at Royal Vegas, Vegas Towers, etc

It's mighty unfortunate that the casino representative fails to understand that the players in question met the terms and conditions set forth by the casinos. They should demand documentation on the players to avoid gnomes, pay everyone what they're owed, unlock the accounts and get on with running a business.

The concerns about "bonus abuse" should be addressed by changing the terms and conditions of the bonus such that it is less attractive, possibly just break-even EV-wise.
That will chase away the bonus whores, but still attract casual players, and possibly attract some long term loyal players. I presume that is the kind of client mix the casinos actually want.

As long as casinos provide bonuses which are +EV, there will be individuals who look for the method which maximizes their EV and play the bonus in that manner. The casinos have nobody to blame but themselves when the casino loses money on +EV bonuses. Banning intelligent players (or those who at least do internet searches for maximizing the EV from a bonus) is not the solution -- it just generates negative press at a time when the industry can least afford it.

In my particular case I have been banned from a handful of the fortune lounge casinos for aggressively playing bonuses, which isn't a big deal to me or likely the casinos. However, due to the banning, I will boycott any online poker rooms associated with fortune lounge -- which is definitely -EV for fortune lounge (and me). I drop more in rake these days in a month than I've ever made on a casino bonus.



jeff

 

[The Dude]

Point to be made

Just so we're straight here - the bottom line is this, and this applies to all casinos across the board.

If the casino operation does not approve in the manner in which the player plays, then they have every right to lock a player's account just so this is outlined in the terms and conditions.

If fraudulent activity is detected (multiple accounts, faked IDs, bogus personal info, etc.) then winnings should be confiscated since these would be considered bogus accounts.

If the player account is legit, the wagering requirements are met, and the terms and conditions are not breached, then winnings should be paid.

 

[powerball]

I am not the only one beeing banned from this casinogroup I see.. (I have my own thread in the "bonus-complaint" forum)

If you dont like people gambling on one big bet of baccarat, why don't you put it in your T&C? I have my own theory on this. And that is that you now have created a win\win situation for yourself in a very sneaky way. If the so called "bonus abuser" ends up loosing, you get his money, if he "wins", you lock his account and also get his money.

If a bank does not have metal detectors it doesn't justify why the bank should be robbed.

What is the logic behind this? If the bank doesnt have a metaldetector it is still illegal to "rob" the bank as you say it. That is because the LAWS (lets call it societies terms and conditions) says that it is illegal to "rob" people. The casinos sets up their own laws in the form of terms and conditions. When these laws don't prohibit people to gamble it up with the bonus, then they can not be judged for doing so.

In Norway we have a legal paragraph saying "You cannot be judged without authority of the law". Meaning you cannot be judged for something one party claims is a criminal act, when it is not any laws against it.

It is the same situation in this case. The Casino makes the laws in form of terms and conditions. If a player havent broken these, the player can neither be judged for it.

 

[BBKPoker]

Just so we're straight here - the bottom line is this, and this applies to all casinos across the board.

If the casino operation does not approve in the manner in which the player plays, then they have every right to lock a player's account just so this is outlined in the terms and conditions.

If fraudulent activity is detected (multiple accounts, faked IDs, bogus personal info, etc.) then winnings should be confiscated since these would be considered bogus accounts.

If the player account is legit, the wagering requirements are met, and the terms and conditions are not breached, then winnings should be paid.

Agreed, but at least one player has posted a response from the casino that is an objection to his manner of play (which does not breach their terms and conditions) rather than actual fraudulent activity (multiple accounts, bogus info, etc). That is a contemptible way of doing business on any casino's part, and it's even more appalling when it's defended as a legitimate reason to confiscate winnings by a group that has previously been a model for operating as an honest establishment. Very depressing action to see from a casino group that is going to quickly lose it's credibility if it thinks that kind of argument is going to fly anywhere.

 

[The Dude]

Agreed, but at least one player has posted a response from the casino that is an objection to his manner of play ...

Yeah, I know. I'm hoping by tomorrow sometime things might be a bit more clearer.

 

[JALaw]

Fortune Lounge Group

Yeah, I know. I'm hoping by tomorrow sometime things might be a bit more clearer.

It's more than one player that wasn't committing any kind of fraud. Did I aggressively play their bonus? absolutely (can't remember if I won or lost at this point). But I _never_ engaged in any fraudulent activity.

I personally don't care that my account was closed permanently, but their actions reflect badly upon their company and online gaming as a whole. For online gaming to survive it must be seen as legitimate and this kind of behavior undermines the legitimacy of online gaming in a significant way.

Jeff

 

[Vesuvio]

Apologies for repeating what others have said, but for the record:

This is a case where players purchase the minium required to receive the offer (no problem with this) wager the full amount on one hand of a low risk game and, if they win, proceed to play only French Roulette, betting on red or black / odds or evens to meet the wagering requirements and then to cash in and disappear. This is nothing else than bonus abuse, call it what you like.

No, that's simply a player trying to make the most of a bonus. Alter the rules, if it's a problem for you. Note, betting one hand on a "low risk" game isn't low risk and betting on red "or" black at roulette is still risking your balance at a high house edge.

Thank you for your version. We regard syndicates as players linked by certain identifiers who play from the same area and display the same patterns.

Fair enough and good to have your definition, though obviously perfectly legitimate players can also play in the same area with a similar pattern of play. The bottom line is you can exclude who you like but must have proof of fraud to confiscate funds.

If a bank does not have metal detectors it doesn't justify why the bank should be robbed.

Comparing yourself to a bank is apt, but it's not a robbery if you lose money when players take up your offers and win - any more than it's a robbery if they take up the offers and lose.

Bonuses are there to attract real, honest, bona fide players. It should be our right to exclude players who clearly display that they are only interested in taking advantage of a free money offer with no intention to return.

I don't dispute your right to exclude players - of course you can. But if your terms have been met and no fraud committed you have to pay out winnings first. (in passing, "free money" is a comical misnomer if even the players who are "robbing" you are more likely to lose their deposit than win when they play)

We have never practiced "we can do whatever we like" You seem to advocate this for players.

The player needs to meet your terms (the clearcut ones, not the catch-all) and commit no fraud. The only "whatever they like" I'm advocating is that players can play a bonus how they choose - big hands, small hands, having a target and stopping when they reach it, or simply playing for fun until they lose their balance.

If we (and other operators) keep on allowing bonus abuse to this extent, we won't have a business.

You set the terms of the game - you can change your offers or use a different business model if you don't like the results. You can't justify committing a crime by claiming it's the best business decision! (though you're not the first casino group to try)

Our Terms and Conditions are very explicit on this issue. It is every player's responsibility to read, understand and agree to these Terms and Conditions and no player is allowed to open an account unless he/she agrees to these terms. If someone is not happy with a particular term or condition, then the logical thing to do is to go and find a casino that does not have such a term.
Terms and Conditions are there to protect players and casino alike.

Taken to it's logical conclusion that would sound the death knell for the online casino industry. All casinos have something similar written into their terms but the fine line between the industry being reputable and simply criminal is that only the rogue outfits have enforced it - a rational player either has to consider the catch-all term unenforcable nonsense, or not play. It's worth noting that such terms would have zero legal weight in a properly regulated industry/jurisdiction.

It boggles my mind then that, when we enforce these terms, it becomes an issue and we are wrong. We are then liars and thieves and the player is the victim.

Spare us the pretense that you thought you could get away with what you're doing without a response. No doubt you calculated that the fraudulently obtained funds would outweigh the bad publicity - all players can do is try and tip the scales of the calculation on forums like this one.

 

[GOCC]

Just checked my email and I have 3 accounts locked with this group that I have only used for their sign up offer.

So it can only be if you win with the bonus, they dont want you

 

[wangpoker]

I have knew this method to abuse the bonus for a long time.
VPL casinos have 100% or 150% or 200% or 300% signup bonuses.
One account can earn about 100-300 bucks at low risk in this group.
This method applys to Fortune Lounge and other groups.

Whose fault? MG's new bonus system? players' greed?

I never tried this method although it works.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Bonus

The method described is one specific method of "advantage play". It is not any kind of "abuse", bonus or otherwise, provided the player has not broken rules about multiple accounts or ID fraud.

The casino makes these offers to gain players. EXISTING players of one or two of their casinos are vigorously encouraged to play at the others, WITH THE BONUS. If the casino sees a player use this method at one casino, why not instantly bar them from any of the others before they get a chance to turn a very high risk advantage play method into a very low risk near certain winner.
There is nothing to stop the casino from moving French Roulette to the 10% weighting level, instead of the standard 50% for tables. This would remove the opportunity to grind out a WR profitably, even after a one off high risk bet.
The faults are mathematical, whoever implemented these promotions was not sufficiently qualified, and management let this pass for too long because presumably they did not want to alienate players. They waited too long, and have now taken severe and delayed action without there being any change in the terms and conditions to scare off further advantage players.

At least we have an admission that the E-mail suggesting fraud should not have been sent out to mere "bonus abusers".

Now this has been put out in the open, how on earth can future players be certain that simply doing their best to beat the house will not get them labelled as an abuser. What if they deposit the max, play a slot with a chunky bet size and hit an early bonus round, then play other slots at a much smaller bet to meet WR and end up with a win - is this "abuse", or just "luck".

The only real defence is to implement a system whereby a bonus claim is denied, and an explanation given that the player has not demonstrated a desire to play after receiving an earlier bonus. This system should get rid of "bonus abusers" at the outset, but would NOT result in the casino resorting to confiscation of winnings after the fact - the one act that causes the most bad feeling in these disputed cases.

Mass closing of acounts where "the horse has already bolted" serves no purpose other than to blow the issue out of necessary proportion - this thread began not with players not receiving cash-ins, but with players suddenly being accused of "suspicious activity" on what they took to be long dead accounts. IF these accounts had been simply left open, no further "abuse" could have happened from them, and there would have been no fuss on this forum. T & C could have been changed to prevent more than one automatic bonus over the entire group (others only by invitation and personal claim), and French Roulette wager weighting (an anomaly within EZBonus), reset to reflect the favourable house edge on the even money bets. The initial big bet could even be dealt with by restricting the max bet size on new accounts. This has been demonstrated as being possible under MG by the fact that when Casino Action used separate bonus accounts this is exactly how they dealt with this, by limiting the bets on these even money shots to $100, whereas in the real account of the same casino they were set to $500.

 

[largeeyes]

Actually, this argument works in the players favor. Here in the states, quite a few banks offer sign up bonuses, especially in this age of negative savings rates. They have rules that are well below what is profitable to the bank, like Deposit $1500, get $200 value bonus, only needing to leave the money there a few months. If you do take it out, they don't label you an abuser. This isn't robbing the bank, it's following the rules. Tsk tsk fortune lounge.

I am not the only one beeing banned from this casinogroup I see.. (I have my own thread in the "bonus-complaint" forum)

If you dont like people gambling on one big bet of baccarat, why don't you put it in your T&C? I have my own theory on this. And that is that you now have created a win\win situation for yourself in a very sneaky way. If the so called "bonus abuser" ends up loosing, you get his money, if he "wins", you lock his account and also get his money.



What is the logic behind this? If the bank doesnt have a metaldetector it is still illegal to "rob" the bank as you say it. That is because the LAWS (lets call it societies terms and conditions) says that it is illegal to "rob" people. The casinos sets up their own laws in the form of terms and conditions. When these laws don't prohibit people to gamble it up with the bonus, then they can not be judged for doing so.

In Norway we have a legal paragraph saying "You cannot be judged without authority of the law". Meaning you cannot be judged for something one party claims is a criminal act, when it is not any laws against it.

It is the same situation in this case. The Casino makes the laws in form of terms and conditions. If a player havent broken these, the player can neither be judged for it.

 

[cyprean]

Just so we're straight here - the bottom line is this, and this applies to all casinos across the board.

If the casino operation does not approve in the manner in which the player plays, then they have every right to lock a player's account just so this is outlined in the terms and conditions.

If fraudulent activity is detected (multiple accounts, faked IDs, bogus personal info, etc.) then winnings should be confiscated since these would be considered bogus accounts.

If the player account is legit, the wagering requirements are met, and the terms and conditions are not breached, then winnings should be paid.

Touche. Couldn't have said it better myself.

If there has been real breaches of security such as fake information and credit card frauds - then I understand the bannings. But if legit players who have followed T&Cs are getting slaughtered here and winnings forfeited then that casino actions are rogue and clearly unacceptable. To me it seems like the latter is the case here.

 

[powerball]

To me it seems like the latter is the case here.

That is atleast the situation in my case. I can take a picture of myself holding up my ID, in front of the house were I live, with the house number showing, if that is what it takes..

 

[vinylweatherman]

Quite

Actually, this argument works in the players favor. Here in the states, quite a few banks offer sign up bonuses, especially in this age of negative savings rates. They have rules that are well below what is profitable to the bank, like Deposit $1500, get $200 value bonus, only needing to leave the money there a few months. If you do take it out, they don't label you an abuser. This isn't robbing the bank, it's following the rules. Tsk tsk fortune lounge.

Banks have done that here, but best of all are the credit cards. They used to offer 0% deals on balance transfers for as long as 18 months in a few cases. The "advantage play" here was to take out one card, transfer the biggest balance you could from another card, and put the money that would have been used to pay it off into a savings account. As each offer comes to an end, the next card is applied for, and the process begins again. The net gain was around 4% of whatever limit you could get. Up to 20,000 was easy, but lately the banks have tightened up. I was banned from MBNA even before I had opened my first account (Pity, they had great bonuses )

I have "abused a sign-up bonus" at First Direct, but at least I went on to deposit more, and gave them some "meaningful action" with these deposits by paying off my Barclaycard, and taking out, and using, their credit card.

It is still possible to "whore" the sign-up offers at the Gas and Electricity utilities, and at a few phone providers.

NPower were offering 50 and 6 free low energy lightbulbs, but I have already done them. I am currently on PowerGen, but there is a new tranche of offers coming out this spring, just need to suck the remaining value from PowerGen - more free lightbulbs

I have also made 20 per month from NTL (now Virgin Media), by explaining how I only ever watched SKY ONE, and might as well get rid of the telly box now it has gone and download Stargate over the broadband or rent the DVD.

What hapened to all this cash?

Just lost it at All Slots

 

[GrandMaster]

The Royal Bank of Scotland is offering a 100 sign-up bonus with no WR at the moment.

 

[The Dude]

...Mass closing of acounts where "the horse has already bolted" serves no purpose other than to blow the issue out of necessary proportion - this thread began not with players not receiving cash-ins, but with players suddenly being accused of "suspicious activity" on what they took to be long dead accounts...

Good point. But we're not 100% privy to what exactly initiated the locking of 4000 accounts. I am making an assumption that many are dormant, never to be used again. Please bear in mind that we do not have all the facts from both sides.

So far only only three PABs concerning this issue. Two Norwegians, and one Fin. No US or UK players yet.

 

[vincenski]

Well my account at 777 sultans and Desert Dollar was locked too. Desert Dollar with 200 in my cash balance. I also got this email this morning:

Thank you for your email.

I am sending this e-mail in regards to your recent request concerning the status of your locked Desert Dollar account.

The decision that was made is based on promotional abuse being identified on the account. We can unfortunately not provide you with the specific details behind the process of the promotional abuse being identified as this would negatively impact the security of the casino and its processes.

As per the terms and conditions, if the account is locked by the casino for any such activity, any balance on the account including purchases, free money, bonuses and winnings will be forfeit.

I trust that you will find the above information of use and would like to thank you for your understanding in regards to this matter.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require any further assistance.

Thank you for playing with Fortune Lounge.

Kind regards

Jake

Casino Support

Where the Player comes First



Should I place a PAB for this??

 

[GForceT1]

Well my account at 777 sultans and Desert Dollar was locked too. Desert Dollar with 200 in my cash balance. I also got this email this morning:

Thank you for your email.

I am sending this e-mail in regards to your recent request concerning the status of your locked Desert Dollar account.

The decision that was made is based on promotional abuse being identified on the account. We can unfortunately not provide you with the specific details behind the process of the promotional abuse being identified as this would negatively impact the security of the casino and its processes.

As per the terms and conditions, if the account is locked by the casino for any such activity, any balance on the account including purchases, free money, bonuses and winnings will be forfeit.

I trust that you will find the above information of use and would like to thank you for your understanding in regards to this matter.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require any further assistance.

Thank you for playing with Fortune Lounge.

Kind regards

Jake

Casino Support

Where the Player comes First



Should I place a PAB for this??

that last sentence

My accounts are not closed. I also made a big baccarat bet in the beginning, because I want to maximize my bonus. However I LOST this bet.
Fortunelounge could you return my deposit and lock me to?? Or you only do that to winners?

Vincenski if you want CM to go after your money, you should PAB. I think you should PAB anyway so there is a ground for a thorough investigation of this.

 

[cyprean]

Well my account at 777 sultans and Desert Dollar was locked too. Desert Dollar with 200 in my cash balance. I also got this email this morning:

Should I place a PAB for this??

Please PAB. Then we will learn a little more about the gravity of these lockdowns. Especially when they took 200 from your cash balance. Please file eCogra complaint also.

 

[TeddyFSB]

My accounts are not closed. I also made a big baccarat bet in the beginning, because I want to maximize my bonus. However I LOST this bet.
Fortunelounge could you return my deposit and lock me to?? Or you only do that to winners?

Read their email carefully: they are not even returning deposits. So rogue, so sad.

 

[vincenski]

Please PAB. Then we will learn a little more about the gravity of these lockdowns. Especially when they took 200 from your cash balance. Please file eCogra complaint also.

Okay I will PAB when I'm at home this afternoon Thanks.

 

[GForceT1]

well I heard of some other guy they will void his withdrawal of 290 and return his deposit of 60. So appearantly they are not returning anything to someplayers, whilst others get their deposit back.
I'll ask that player to post here so we can get a better view of what's going on here.

 

[GForceT1]

Ok, I got the details about the person who got his money back. (money is returned to neteller and received)

In total he had 3 accounts at the fortunelounge group.
He never before made a withdrawal. This was the 2nd casino he deposited. On 1 he made an account but hasn't played there for real money yet.
He wanted to win some of his earlier money back so made a couple of big bets and was lucky. Then he tried to withdraw 290€. So this was his 1st withdrawal EVER at fortunelounge. (lost deposit at an other casino of FL). Terms and conditions were respected, no fraud committed (unless you call making big bets 'fraud' )

He then received this email:"
"Hi XXXXX,


* * * * BONUS FORFEITED * * * *


This e-mail is in reference to your recent cashin of €290 on your Desert Dollar account number XXXXXXXXXX.


Please be aware that all Fortune Lounge bonuses are allotted to players in good faith, in order to enrich their gaming experience, and not to be abused for profit. Unfortunately, your recent withdrawal request of €290 included a bonus amount that you already received via our promotional offers.


We sincerely regret that as a result of this recent activity, we have had no choice but to forfeit your bonus and the winnings derived from it. However, we have refunded your original purchase amount. If you are unclear as to why you have forfeited your bonus please refer to our terms and conditions for more details regarding promotional abuse.


Should you require additional information regarding the play-through requirements on bonuses, please go here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

FL_Direct#tnc


Alternatively, you can call us on one of the toll free numbers below or email us at:

[email protected]


Regards,


Jaco
ECash Operations
_____________________________________________

Toll Free Tel:

USA: 1-866-745-2415
Portugal: 800-827-002
Canada: 1-800-766-3571
Hong Kong: 800-901-014
Australia: 1-800-706-903
Italy: 800-782-446
United Kingdom: 0-800-056-9578
Singapore: 800-270-0005
Germany: 0-800-180-0948
France: 0-800-918-780
Malaysia: 1-800-805-933
Taiwan: 801-279-906
Thailand: 1-800-271-1802
Israel: 1-800-945-1602"

So you can't make a profit of a bonus because that is abuse. It is only good so you can see thunderstruck rolling a few times longer before it eats your money.

Anyway, about PAB, He is afraid in the future he might run into some problems for a bigger amount of money and don't want to hear "yes, sorry but you already did PAB". Can he PAB in the future when he does it now?


Strange things are happening there...... and it's not even RTG

 

[The Dude]

...Anyway, about PAB, He is afraid in the future he might run into some problems for a bigger amount of money and don't want to hear "yes, sorry but you already did PAB". Can he PAB in the future when he does it now?

The rules for submitting complaints are clearly stated here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

 

[Vesuvio]

Please be aware that all Fortune Lounge bonuses are allotted to players in good faith, in order to enrich their gaming experience, and not to be abused for profit.

That's a quote and a half. Somehow the "take our bonuses for an enriched losing experience" message seems to have got lost along the way to the promotion department, who simplified it to "100 free!"

It's mind boggling that a casino group that's been around for years suddenly seems to be coming round to the realisation that bonuses might give the player an edge (doh!). Attracting customers costs money - and shock, horror (!), not all the customers you attract with an offer will be the ones you want.

 

[cyprean]

Anyway, about PAB, He is afraid in the future he might run into some problems for a bigger amount of money and don't want to hear "yes, sorry but you already did PAB". Can he PAB in the future when he does it now?

Just PAB. It's worth it. We will know how many players have been screwed.

Please be aware that all Fortune Lounge bonuses are allotted to players in good faith, in order to enrich their gaming experience, and not to be abused for profit.

That's a quote and a half. Somehow the "take our bonuses for an enriched losing experience" message seems to have got lost along the way to the promotion department, who simplified it to "100 free!"

It's mind boggling that a casino group that's been around for years suddenly seems to be coming round to the realisation that bonuses might give the player an edge (doh!). Attracting customers costs money - and shock, horror (!), not all the customers you attract with an offer will be the ones you want.

You're absolutely right. Bonuses are promoted very aggressively, do this and get this free. They work well, and help the casino to get players to try their software. Many times the player ends up coming back and depositing more and thus being a 'good customer'. The casinos could do other kind of marketing, but I guess the bonuses are a very effective to attract players' interest and get them in effectively. If a reputable casino offers these kind of bonuses they should keep their end of the deal. A LOSE-LOSE situation where by losing you and by winning you still lose is an absolute NO-NO.

 

[Tagdog]

That's a quote and a half. Somehow the "take our bonuses for an enriched losing experience" message seems to have got lost along the way to the promotion department, who simplified it to "100 free!"

It's mind boggling that a casino group that's been around for years suddenly seems to be coming round to the realisation that bonuses might give the player an edge (doh!). Attracting customers costs money - and shock, horror (!), not all the customers you attract with an offer will be the ones you want.

Online casinos are mind boggling, they seem to think they have a devine right to make a profit no matter how badly they run their business.

It's almost unreal that they pretend to have moral issues with players playing bonuses with a mathematical edge in their favour to make money.

Guess how your casino works Fortune Lounge - you use a mathematical edge in your favour to beat people who don't care / are daft enough to think they can beat it.

You complain about advantage players making minimum wagers to not risk too much money - well unless you remove all your table limits so that a lucky millionaire has the chance of busting your whole operation with one bet you're doing the same thing.

If you market your bonuses properly then you'll have no problems. You're mistakes lead to players making money, get over it, pay everyone owed money and market your business better.

 

[Holmer]

I am also experiencing this problem with the 7 Sultans casino. I won 426.5 EUR last Thursday, and all I got at my NETeller was the initioal deposit of 20 EUR...

Here's the story:

I immediately sent a mail regarding the incorrect withdrawal. The response:

I have reviewed your account and have noted that you have not met the wagering requirements on this bonus and therefore we have returned the $20 for the purchase you have made and the remaining $406-50 has been confiscated as you have not met the wagering requirements.

As stated in the terms and conditions these bonuses will then be lost as you have made a withdrawal to early.

As I was sure I had met the wagering I went on by asking how much I actually DID wager, and what the requirements was. The response:

The wagering requirement on the bonus that you have received is bonus x 30, $193.50 X 30 = $5805.

And in the next mail:

The total amount wagered before you made the withdrawal comes to €5920.50.

This made me confused since 5920.5 is more than enough for wagerng, so I replied asking what was going on. The respnose was surprising. Now they stoped claiming I wasn't finished with wagering, and instead they said I had played in ways which was against the terms & conditions. The response:

I have checked with the security company and have been informed that the bonus has been removed due to the fact that there were discrepancies found on your account in regards with the Terms and Conditions of the promotion. The casino then has the right to take back the bonus and give back your purchase of $20.

I replied by asking in what ways I was playing against their t&c. The response came directly from the floor-manager:

Hi Anton

My name is Codie and I am the Floor Manager at the Fortune Lounge.

The decision to lock your account was taken of as a result of bonus abuse. We have reviewed your accounts and found the following.

You registered the account on the 8th of March 2007 and made the minimum required purchase of €20 to receive the bonus transfer amount of €193.50. With these funds you placed a single bet off €210 on Baccarat, where after you moved to Black Jack and French Roulette. A withdrawal was made on the same date to the value of €450

The status of the account will not be reconsidered as playing 11609 number of hands on red at $1 a bet in a roulette game is highly unnatural and improbable for any bona fide player with intent to play with us in future. Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

You have displayed the same behavior as several other players and it is amazingly co-incidental that ALL of you had the same game pattern. Was this perhaps posted on some forum or did you hear about this from someone else? A syndicate maybe ? In the event that you did pick up.

Regards

Codie

Floor Manager

I replied asking why they didn't state that this way of playing was illegal in their t&c. The response:

Hi Anton



It is not stated in our Terms and Conditions as we do not have an issue with players playing these games. You were clearly using these games to abuse our bonuses and we have the full right to disallow you to play on our casinos.



As stated previously we will not reconsider the decision taken. Only your initial purchase of €20 will be refunded to your Neteller account.



Regards


Codie


Floor Manager

So basically I've been directly lied to twice, and still don't have my money... I just reported to eCOGRA, and I am about to PAB this one...

 

[Gaahl]

Man, after reading this I am glad I have only played 32RED the last few months... Seems like the only site out there that don't try to stiff you on every occasion they get..


Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[winbig]

Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

If you ask me, that is the EXACT definition of a gambler

I've been gambling for over 14 years, and I can't count the number of times I have placed all of my money on a single hand of blackjack - online OR off.

Seriously though,

If FL will not pay these players their winnings, they need to be taken back off the accredited list.

If they want to lock said accounts AFTER paying, then fine.

 

[vincenski]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

 

[winbig]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

I'd PAB...it's obvious they're not going to change their stance on this issue.

 

[cyprean]

Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler

. If you ask me, that is the EXACT definition of a gambler

I've been gambling for over 14 years, and I can't count the number of times I have placed all of my money on a single hand of blackjack - online OR off.

Seriously though, If FL will not pay these players their winnings, they need to be taken back off the accredited list.

If they want to lock said accounts AFTER paying, then fine.

Agree, agree and agree. Fortune Lounge is not making their point very clear - if a player players bets the minimun on red then that is not legit gamgling in Fortune Lounges mind. However if the player bets ALL of his balance in one hand then that is not gambling either. Fortune Lounge seems to have no case here, they are just trying find an poor excuse for the lock ups.

So far we haven't seen a case where a player has actually frauded the casino . All the stories here have included winning with a bonus, which is not in my mind fraud if the group actively promotes the bonuses.

Like I said earlier I believe that Fortune Lounge should pay all those real players who won with a bonus. If they want to ban them afterwards, go for it. Fraudsters (if there were even any) should not be paid.

In any case this has changed my opinion of the Fortune Lounge group. I used to think that they could be trusted to handle things fairly. This seems not to be the case anymore. Their security department has gone too far.

 

[The Dude]

Just 1 question: I've posted earlier with this problem, and 200 euros confiscated. Should i contact FL represantative on CM first (i did on email) or can i just post a PAB? Because I'm kind of pissed about this problem

The FL rep told me today that he will no longer be participating in the forum. If you want to contact their help desk, you can do so here: [email protected]

PAB here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

and contact eCOGRA here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[casinocide]

Stolen funds

Well it certainly looks like a number of people have been completely railed by this unscrupulous group and their half baked, improvised excuses to commit grand larceny. As far as I'm concerned when a casino steals money from you and you haven't done anything fraudulent, then you have a right to get that money back. It's not murder if you accidently kill a crack head who just stuck a gun in your side and told you to give him all of your money.

This whole thread is completley dispicable and IMO totally representative of how this depraved, largely worthless industry views its societal role and the contemptuous view it holds towards its customers.

I've personally never had a problem with FL and actually thought they were one of the better groups on the internet. Of course even a docile lion is still a predator. You would be on guard leaving your children with a known child rapist no matter how nice and civil he seemed so you should also be on alert leaving your money with FL or any other web casino with very few exceptions.

Why PAB? For all of you legitimate players who just got ripped by these sleaze-bags-by-nature why don't you check your mail in the next couple days. You should be recieving a blank check with Selborne LTD written at the top. If some drug fiend street thug had a gun to my side, I would do some shooting of my own.

 

[vincenski]

The FL rep told me today that he will no longer be participating in the forum. If you want to contact their help desk, you can do so here: [email protected]

PAB here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

and contact eCOGRA here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok thanks Already contected casinodesk yesterday and they mailed me that they close my account and dont return even my deposit, so thats gonna be a PAB (sorry for the post overflow, just wanted to know if a PAB was right! )

 

[BBKPoker]

What is even more unacceptable (as if stealing money from players who play within the bonus terms and conditions wasn't bad enough) is that their term states specifically that ALL monies, INCLUDING purchases are forfeit to the casino. In other words, if they make a subjective decision that they do not like the way you play their bonuses and regardless of whether your bonus play is in line with their terms and conditions, they will not only NOT give you your winnings, but they'll keep your deposit too.

I mean come on...................

 

[NextToYou]

ROGUE, plz.

 

[The Dude]

Well it certainly looks like a number of people have been completely railed by this unscrupulous group and their half baked, improvised excuses to commit grand larceny. As far as I'm concerned when a casino steals money from you and you haven't done anything fraudulent, then you have a right to get that money back. It's not murder if you accidently kill a crack head who just stuck a gun in your side and told you to give him all of your money.

This whole thread is completley dispicable and IMO totally representative of how this depraved, largely worthless industry views its societal role and the contemptuous view it holds towards its customers.

I've personally never had a problem with FL and actually thought they were one of the better groups on the internet. Of course even a docile lion is still a predator. You would be on guard leaving your children with a known child rapist no matter how nice and civil he seemed so you should also be on alert leaving your money with FL or any other web casino with very few exceptions.

Why PAB? For all of you legitimate players who just got ripped by these sleaze-bags-by-nature why don't you check your mail in the next couple days. You should be recieving a blank check with Selborne LTD written at the top. If some drug fiend street thug had a gun to my side, I would do some shooting of my own.

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense. It seems that FL has let themselves become vulnerable to players that they don't want, and they have taken the initiative to ban these players. It's within their right to do so. The problem is specifically how to deal with these players' winnings.

If any player is going to complain in the forum, then they should PAB as well so we can get a sense on how much fraudulent activity occurred. I believe that there were accusations of multiple accounts, false ID etc. These players will be identified, and if they are members of this forum they will be booted.

Remember, this isn't a free-for-all ho-down. We're here to try and solve a problem or to set things straight. Analogies to crack heads, shooting people, and child rapists have no place here.

 

[powerball]

As I stated before, if it is a problem with ID's I can take a picture of myself infront of the housenumber I live in holding my ID. Is that good enough or is it still fraudlent?

When do you reckon we get some kind of answer to our PAB Casinomeister? Don't wanna rush you, I would just like to have an estimate

 

[GOCC]

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense. It seems that FL has let themselves become vulnerable to players that they don't want, and they have taken the initiative to ban these players. It's within their right to do so. The problem is specifically how to deal with these players' winnings.

If any player is going to complain in the forum, then they should PAB as well so we can get a sense on how much fraudulent activity occurred. I believe that there were accusations of multiple accounts, false ID etc. These players will be identified, and if they are members of this forum they will be booted.

Remember, this isn't a free-for-all ho-down. We're here to try and solve a problem or to set things straight. Analogies to crack heads, shooting people, and child rapists have no place here.

With the upmost respect to you Bryan, you do seem to be putting spin on it as being the players fault with the way the above post reads.

The email sent by codie to the player quite basically says, we didnt like the way you played so go away. You can have your deposit back. Will they be refunding all the deposits of the losers big initial bets

The FL rep says he is no longer participating in the forum. Is that the forum in general or just this thread. Just it seems to me to be a case of got caught with his trousers round his ankles and aint coming back.

Like I said, they have locked some of my accounts which I am not too bothered about. Just it seems like they want to control everyones spending. If a pub offers 3 budweiser for a fiver on a Tuesday night and on wednesday the one down the road does 4 for 6 quid, would the pub bar me on the following Tuesday. No, stupid to suggest isnt it. But this is exactly what this group are doing.

Why when you go to one of their websites then close the box, does a pop up appear advertising every bonus in the group??
We wont know coz the rep is having his ass spanked as we speak (Metaphorically )sic))

 

[casinocide]

chill out

Let's chill out for a bit, okay? You're making some bizarre analogies that don't make much sense.

Yea, you're probably right. When I read threads like this I can feel my blood start to boil, and I probably don't have all the info. Casinos have the right to protect themselves from fraud and that means confiscating winnings if fraud is discovered.

The analogies may be bizzare here, as I stated I have personally never had a problem with FL, but they are highly applicable elsewhere in situations that I have experienced that closesly resemble the accounts of players in this thread. It sounds like FL is way overreacting and that they don't have a handle on the potential consequences of thier own actions.

I don't retract a thing I said either. If a player is legitimate and the casino chooses to steal thier money, then it is a free for all ho down in the most Texan sense of the phrase.

 

[Vesuvio]

The status of the account will not be reconsidered as playing 11609 number of hands on red at $1 a bet in a roulette game is highly unnatural and improbable for any bona fide player with intent to play with us in future. Similarly, placing all your money on one single bet is also highly unlikely for any serious gambler.

You have displayed the same behavior as several other players and it is amazingly co-incidental that ALL of you had the same game pattern. Was this perhaps posted on some forum or did you hear about this from someone else? A syndicate maybe ?

At least we can be grateful for Fortune Lounge for being blatant about what they're doing. If they'd been more experienced rogues they'd have remained vague and simply hinted at fraud (their rep's left long after the horse bolted). As it is there's no room for doubt.

re: the floor manager's comments - obviously it's reprehensible to confiscate funds on the basis of play patterns, but it's also interesting to observe the stupidity of the comments on the "amazing coincidence". Sure, these things are posted on some forums (just as winning roulette systems, slot systems and so on are posted), but if you think for a nanosecond or two why a large group of players starts playing that way you'd realise that it's simply because that's more or less the best way to play the bonus (if you want to win, as many players do ). It's not rocket science, any more than it was a stunning coincidence that in the old days people would play BJ, or then VP and so on.

 

[The Dude]

With the upmost respect to you Bryan, you do seem to be putting spin on it as being the players fault with the way the above post reads..

Sorry - no spin intended. I'm just trying not to use any subjective language. If that seems like spin, well what the hell.

As for the thread and chilling out, threads like this tend to spin into a pile of crap when people get all riled up. I am in the process of making some serious inquiries and comments concerning child rapists don't help.

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

 

[lojo]

I've followed this thread and read every previous post by FortuneLounge. IMO it was wise of him to exit this fray.

If you have a dog in the hunt, PAB and trust the CM process. If you just want to vent, I'd don't think it's doing anyone any good. Just my opinion, but there is no new information coming out of many repeat contributors here, just opinions and inflammations. That is not leverage.

I'm new here, but trust me, I see the very real value of open, honest, and transparent Reps to this forum and would hate to see one disappear for good.

No sense to flame me, cuz homey don't play that. Post all ya want, it's really none of my business. All I'm saying is that it is probably in everyone's best interest to trust the process.

 

[winbig]

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

Just curious, do you find that acceptable? Especially for those that have met the WR and followed the T&C to the letter, nor have multiple accounts, as well as having their ID documents in order, etc?

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks

 

[NextToYou]

By the way, all players with pending cash-ins who have had their accounts locked will receive a refund of their purchases. That's directly from the casino.

Sounds like a good business to me. Every other player who deposits, lets say $50, loses his bet and therefore casino gets $50 win. That other half, which happens to win, casino refunds their initial $50 deposits so casino loses nothing. Oh god, I want to be in this kind of a business too.

 

[The Dude]

Just curious, do you find that acceptable? Especially for those that have met the WR and followed the T&C to the letter, nor have multiple accounts, as well as having their ID documents in order, etc?

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks

I think that getting their deposits back is a good first step.

 

[winbig]

I think that getting their deposits back is a good first step.

Cool beans....as long as it's not the final step.

 

[lojo]

...

and lol @ lojo....Homey D. Clown rocks