King Cashalot

[Slotster!]

Well, it seems all the casinos are getting very excited about the progressive jackpot amount on this one!

I can't open my email without seeing another promo from XYZ casino telling me I'm just 2.25 away from becoming a millionaire!!

As I type, the latest email says it's at "1,187,172 & rising"

Now I don't really ever play progressive slots online due to the lack of decent features and poor returns I've experienced in the past, but I might just go crazy and give this one a spin! Out of interest, anyone got any idea of the odds of lining those five kings up on the the relevant payline and hitting it big?...

P.S - How cool would it be if we could get the progressive hit screenshot posted up on the "winner screenshots" thread!

 

[KasinoKing]

I can't open my email without seeing another promo from XYZ casino telling me I'm just 2.25 away from becoming a millionaire!!

As I type, the latest email says it's at "1,187,172 & rising"

Two questions for anybody that knows!

1. As this mega-jackpot is generated across all MG casino's in one huge 'prize pool', how come the jackpot is $1,187,172 or 1,187,172 (depending which currency you play in) = vastly different amounts of cash?

2. I believe this machine can be played with different numbers of coins (?) - so is the chance of hitting the jackpot the same at min coins as it is at max coins?
(Should be if it is truly random)

 

[guesswest]

For question 2, it says in the paytable that the progressive is only payed when betting with max coins. So if you hit it with less coins you'd get the standard 15000x payout for 5 wilds (still pretty nice!).

Question 1 tho I don't know the answer to, and have always wondered this myself. In fact, IS it payable in any currency? Had occured to me that they might just pay it in $ regardless of account currency. Anyone know?

 

[guesswest]

As I type, the latest email says it's at "1,187,172 & rising"

Oops I should have read that more closely. Guess that means it does pay in . Still intrigued how they do this tho.

 

[ergopro]

I read somewhere that the jackpot pays in the currency your account is set with...so if the jackpot shows 1million and you have a account, then it pays 1million , and if you have a $ account...then it pays 1million $...strange but that's how it works...

 

[guesswest]

I read somewhere that the jackpot pays in the currency your account is set with...so if the jackpot shows 1million and you have a account, then it pays 1million , and if you have a $ account...then it pays 1million $...strange but that's how it works...

Yep that bit we've got. Question is how is this jackpot funded, 1 million is almost twice as much money as 1 million $.......

 

[Simmo!]

I had a play on this one for the first time yesterday. Not a lot mind, but actually it wasnt a bad little slot. Some nice smaller hits between $40 and $150 to keep me going, ended up around even after 400 spins or so.

If its like Tstruck, then its probably 30 symbols a reel making the chances of the Jackpot on Line 9 1/30(n5) or 1 in 24.3 million if my maths is right and it was truly random.

However, MG slots are weighted, so who knows.

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[Slotster!]

or 1 in 24.3 million

I'm pressing the 'bet max' button with slightly less optimism than earlier! Heh hee...

 

[spearmaster]

The base currency used to be dollars, but is now pounds sterling because it is the most valuable as a single unit.

If it is hit in pounds, the winner gets the entire amount and the jackpot resets to the seed value (100,000).

If it is hit in any other currency, the winner gets the amount in the currency he is playing in, and the jackpot resets to the seed value plus the difference between pounds sterling and aforementioned currency.

Here's a good tip for you though. In my experience - watching, not winning - if a progressive does not reset to near seed value (ie the jackpot is not won in pounds sterling) another jackpot will fall shortly thereafter. I don't know why this is, but it's true, at least with the Microgaming jackpots.

 

[KasinoKing]

Here's a good tip for you though. In my experience - watching, not winning - if a progressive does not reset to near seed value (ie the jackpot is not won in pounds sterling) another jackpot will fall shortly thereafter. I don't know why this is, but it's true, at least with the Microgaming jackpots.

If that's true - it's not random!

 

[spearmaster]

It's random.

Like I said, I can't explain it - other than perhaps weighting, which Simmo and I have discussed elsewhere. Doesn't change the randomness of the game - only increases the chances of better wins.

My assumption is that, the longer the jackpot goes, the more likely it is to be hit (online, that is). This is due not only to more people playing, but also likely to be because the chances of hitting the jackpot increase because of a "weight" - in this case, the value of the jackpot.

When the jackpot is hit, the weight may not necessarily shift to a lower value - ie "decreasing" the chances of hitting the jackpot - until such time as a full "reset" is triggered when another jackpot is hit and forces the weight to be lifted when it drops below a certain value.

Another way to look at it - some of you have probably seen mechanical devices or games, where a container will fill up with water - when it reaches a certain level, it dumps all the water - not part of it - and when it is empty it returns to its original position and starts to receive water again.


Besides, why would anyone complain if the chances of hitting the jackpot increase?

 

[guesswest]

Besides, why would anyone complain if the chances of hitting the jackpot increase?

Well in my case because it means the chance is decreased at other times. And I'd like to think when I click spin I have the same chance of hitting at all times.

If that is the case, though I certainly wouldnt' go as far as to say it's dishonest - well, I'm guessing most people who spin at newly restarted progressives are unaware of this. It'd basically mean the gamblers fallacy is true right?

 

[spearmaster]

Well in my case because it means the chance is decreased at other times. And I'd like to think when I click spin I have the same chance of hitting at all times.

If that is the case, though I certainly wouldnt' go as far as to say it's dishonest - well, I'm guessing most people who spin at newly restarted progressives are unaware of this. It'd basically mean the gamblers fallacy is true right?

Your chances never decrease. They are at their lowest when the jackpot is reset.

If you have the same slim chance when a jackpot is reset as when a jackpot reaches huge values, you have the same slim chance of winning. Or, as the jackpot grows, your chances increase.

Personally, I know which way I'd rather have it. I'm not saying that all progressives work this way, mind you - there are almost certainly some, if not many, progressives which have the same 1 in infinity odds of being hit - for example, how often does Megabucks in Vegas get hit?

I'd rather have more jackpots of a decent size, say a million or two, than one long-running jackpot which, when paid out, is paid over twenty years, and pays out way more money than you know what to do with - so you go and squander it. There has to be a line between common sense and unrealistically high values which ill-serve the winner, and are generally less enjoyed, and perhaps even less popular.

Put simply - give me a choice between 10 chances at a million bucks, and 1 chance at 10 million bucks, and I'll take the 10 chances every single time.

 

[guesswest]

Your chances never decrease. They are at their lowest when the jackpot is reset.

If you have the same slim chance when a jackpot is reset as when a jackpot reaches huge values, you have the same slim chance of winning. Or, as the jackpot grows, your chances increase.

Personally, I know which way I'd rather have it. I'm not saying that all progressives work this way, mind you - there are almost certainly some, if not many, progressives which have the same 1 in infinity odds of being hit - for example, how often does Megabucks in Vegas get hit?

I'd rather have more jackpots of a decent size, say a million or two, than one long-running jackpot which, when paid out, is paid over twenty years, and pays out way more money than you know what to do with - so you go and squander it. There has to be a line between common sense and unrealistically high values which ill-serve the winner, and are generally less enjoyed, and perhaps even less popular.

Put simply - give me a choice between 10 chances at a million bucks, and 1 chance at 10 million bucks, and I'll take the 10 chances every single time.

I certainly agree that I wouldn't want to see Megabucks style silly jackpots online, 1 in 23 million or whatever it is is poor enough odds for me

I likewise recognise that 'weighted' isn't the same as 'fixed'. But my issue with it is this: If they, for instance, calculated that the likelihood of hitting a progressive by counting average amount of wagers to get to that point would work out to 500k average jackpot. Then without weighting, should that progressive reach the 500k mark, the average amount of wagers for it to hit from that point, is still 500k. The same way 15 blacks on a roulette table don't make red any more likely the next time around.

Having a progressive jackpot set up like that doesn't make the average jackpots bigger, it just means they don't have tipping points. Sometimes it'd be 200k sometimes it'd be 2 mil, but everyone spinning at it would have an identical chance of hitting it. Megabucks hardly ever hits because there are like 1 in a gazillion odds of lining up the reels the right way, not because it isn't weighted.

I was under the assumption that this was how MG progressives worked, strictly on real odds, and I'd guess a lot of people are - if they weren't, I can't see many people playing them when they're newly reset. And I feel bad for anyone oblivious to this playing newly reset progressives when 'weighting' makes their minute chance of hitting even smaller.

Is there an official MG blurb anywhere on how their slots/progressives work?

 

[spearmaster]

Sometimes it'd be 200k sometimes it'd be 2 mil, but everyone spinning at it would have an identical chance of hitting it.

I'm not quite sure if we're on the same level here.

Everyone spinning always has an identical chance at hitting it, compared to the next player.

However, at $200K, you have 1 in x chances to hit the jackpot - whether that be 100, or 1 million, or whatever, it should be pretty obvious that it's not exactly something in your favor to begin with.

Because the player doesn't know that, and because MGS will never reveal how their progressives are set up - nor will any other operator - it stands to reason that people will still play progressives, newly reset or not, because there is still a chance that they will win the jackpot.

I doubt that there are more than 1 out of every 100 people that have any idea whatsoever what the odds against hitting Megabucks is. But they still play anyhow.

That's human nature - "maybe it's my turn", "what the hell, it's only twenty bucks", "I brought my lucky rabbit's foot this time", "That's the seat I hit 3 bars on last time", "Honey you're so lucky, maybe if we both push the button at the same time, we'll hit the jackpot"... this list goes on and on and on.

Needless to say, even if they KNEW what the odds were, they'd still play.

 

[guesswest]

I was talking about variance on where the jackpot would hit with the $200k/$2mil thing, from the $500k example - not the odds of hitting it.

With regards to everyone sharing the same odds, everyone only shares a 1 in x chance of hitting a progressive if the chances of that progressive being hit are always the same. If a progressive is more likely to hit when a fund has built up, ie if it's weighted or has a programmed 'bursting point', the odds aren't always the same - it means you get 1 in x chance of hitting when it's reset, and 1 in y chance of hitting later on when it's built up. Those aren't 'real odd's. Ultimately, if the likelihood of hitting a progressive jackpot is in any way at all related to the it's size at the time, or when it was last won, then you don't have an identical chance of hitting on every spin.

Obviously the odds of hitting a jackpot like that are terrible under any circumstances. But if they're weighted, if they have a payout loop, then player A playing on a recently reset progressive isn't getting the same odds on hitting a jackpot as player B who played it last week before someone won it, necessarily. And one of the reasons jackpots like Megabucks aren't weighted like that, is I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), that it's illegal to do so in NV.

 

[spearmaster]

I'm not too sure about the rules in Nevada relating to progressives, I suppose I can go find that out - but I can tell you that this is still a normal practice in places like Australia, for example.

With video poker - definitely no weighting in Vegas or elsewhere. Slots fall under different rules though so I'd have to look into that.

 

[jamiester]

The odds of hitting the jackpot should never change. The odds should be constant on any spin, independant of jackpot size or anything. The odds do not change with jackpot size. There is no reason to make a machine that complex, not to mention that it wouldn't be fair.

 

[guesswest]

Looks like some lucky person hit Cashalot. Progressive now stands at 590k, be interesting to see if the re-hit theory proves true.

 

[spearmaster]

The odds of hitting the jackpot should never change. The odds should be constant on any spin, independant of jackpot size or anything. The odds do not change with jackpot size. There is no reason to make a machine that complex, not to mention that it wouldn't be fair.

It's not complex at all. This is a very simple thing to implement.

I would, however, like to know why you think this is not fair, since:

1. Your chances increase at the same rate as everyone else's. There is no bias in favor of or against any player.
2. The odds cannot be (or shouldn't be) able to be manipulated by a human, and do not swing high/low - odds only decrease over time in a standard fashion until the jackpot is hit (ie there are no fluctuations).

There should be no problem with this method being used under any jurisdiction as long as it is clear that no one can gain any direct advantage from anything but the passing of time, or a direct correlation between odds and value of jackpot.

 

[spearmaster]

The jackpot data:

$1,218,298.51 Sep 14, 2005 11:18:00 AM GMT

This is an approximate value and could fluctuate a few bucks either side. Judging by the reset value, the jackpot was probably won in dollars.

 

[Petunia]

** IMHO - you should look at the figures as a 'credit' rather than a monatory amount. Your 'credit' will be converted into a 'monatory' amount once it is won. It not only work that way with the Jackpots, but pretty much any promo or bonus. if you are offered $10 and your account is in , you will get 10. Who pays for it? Considering that both currencies are used for play and pay... guess it evens out somewhere along the line of cyber-space!
I look at it as credits. It keeps me sane. have never played a progressive. Maybe now is the time to start?! **

 

[KasinoKing]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Can anyone remind me of that website that shows all the Progressive jackpots including loads of stats about how often hit etc?
(I seem to have lost the URL)

 

[spearmaster]

The first site you can find in my signature. The second one is www.slotcharts.com.

 

[KasinoKing]

That was the one I meant. Thanks matey!

 

[slotchik]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Can anyone remind me of that website that shows all the Progressive jackpots including loads of stats about how often hit etc?
(I seem to have lost the URL)

www.jackpotmadness.com

 

[Simmo!]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Dont worry KK, you couldn't get the Jackpot playing a penny a line anyway ...

 

[guesswest]

It's not complex at all. This is a very simple thing to implement.

I would, however, like to know why you think this is not fair, since:

1. Your chances increase at the same rate as everyone else's. There is no bias in favor of or against any player.
2. The odds cannot be (or shouldn't be) able to be manipulated by a human, and do not swing high/low - odds only decrease over time in a standard fashion until the jackpot is hit (ie there are no fluctuations).

There should be no problem with this method being used under any jurisdiction as long as it is clear that no one can gain any direct advantage from anything but the passing of time, or a direct correlation between odds and value of jackpot.

Couple of thoughts on this. Firstly this issue of weighting, I don't know what MG mean by this. Traditional 3 reel offline slot machines are 'weighted', originally by actual weights, ie making certain parts of the wheel heavier, I believe nowadays they use magnets. Normally 5 line machines aren't weighted. This stands to reason as there can't be all that many symbols on a 3 reel wheel that'd fit in a machine that size, yet they still somehow generate 6 figure progressives from them at $1 a spin. It's also why 5 reel slot machines have greater variance in land based casinos, which most people who use them will have noticed. This kind of weighting I have no problem with, the reason I have no problem with it is the weighting is the same at all times, and external to the jackpot size, it's fixed odds on hitting.

But if, as spear suggests, by 'weighting' MG mean that these slots are actually cogniscent of the jackpot size, that I have a huge problem with, and I agree it's unfair. Firstly, two players may have the same chance of hitting at exactly the same time, but they don't have the same chance of hitting as the guy who span it yesterday, that's unfair in my mind. Secondly, it means that reels don't spin independently or naturally. For instance, if I line up 4 wilds on the jackpot line, the chances of hitting that progressive with real odds might now be, for example, 1 in 250 - but is the reality that it's actually 1 in a million? zero? because of the machines payout schedule? If i get two scatters are my chances of hitting a third not elevated? That makes the whole game totally artificial. That kind of 'weighting', if it is indeed what MG do, is something I have a huge problem with - it's what they used to do with slot machines in bars etc decades ago before there was proper regulation.

So I agree with Jamie that it isn't fair. I do disagree tho that there is no reason to set up a machine like that. A machine rigged in this way will eventually take the same amount of casino profit as one that isn't, but programming slots in such a way would kill the variance completely. That's a good thing for an online casino that doesn't have the kind of start-up capital that the huge Vegas casinos etc do.

Lastly, odds don't decrease over time unless a game is fixed. If a 1 in 10 shot doesn't come in over a thousand spins it's still only a 1 in 10 shot the next spin, in a fair game. I had hoped that MG progressives were a fair game. What is your source on MG slots working like this spear?

 

[spearmaster]

Odds decreasing over time is not what I call a fixed game nor is it rigged. Again, I am not stating that MGS progressives are or are not weighted - I am presuming, based on my experience, that they are.

5 reel machines are always weighted. The positions of the reels are controlled by a microcomputer chip. There is not a single 5 reel game in the world that I know of which is free-wheeling.

No video slot machine spins independently or naturally. It does, however, post a random result based on the RNG, regardless of whether it is a normal or progressive slot, and regardless of any weighting.

Weighting only takes place outside the RNG, and so long as it:

1. Is not human-controlled
2. Does not increase the odds of a prize being won
3. Is otherwise independent of any regulation other than time or value

should be perfectly fine. Of course I am happy to invite other experts on this matter to challenge this.

By the way, for another example of weighted slots, how about those machines that build up "eggs" or "dynamite" or whatever, and once you hit the limit, the "jackpot" bursts and you get the credits?

That is far more descriptive of your scenario. And far closer to a fruit machine than any progressive should ever be.

All of my posts regarding this matter are my own opinion and have no basis in fact.

 

[guesswest]

Good stuff, thanks for posting back.

RE: slots that build up bonus credits, I'm not sure this would be different because without weighting, or with 'normal' weighting, it'd still be fixed odds on hitting the bonus, just the value of the bonus would change. In much the same way a natural progressive would build. It'd be the same thing only if the odds of hitting that bonus increased, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't on those slots - but, I might be wrong.

Truth is, tho I'm pretty sure what I've said so far is accurate, I just plain don't know enough about the workings of slot machines to evaluate all of it properly. There's also a lack of official info from MG on just how their slots work, and I really think they should provide this, seems fair that players should have access to this kind of info. What would be really cool is if there was some slots/gaming expert floating about who could jump in on this thread, because it's a pretty interesting subject I think. Anyone like that around?

 

[jamiester]

replies to this

I would, however, like to know why you think this is not fair, since:

1. Your chances increase at the same rate as everyone else's. There is no bias in favor of or against any player.
2. The odds cannot be (or shouldn't be) able to be manipulated by a human, and do not swing high/low - odds only decrease over time in a standard fashion until the jackpot is hit (ie there are no fluctuations).

This was answered well by guesswest. It is not fair to anybody who plays at a lower jackpot level than anybody else. If they set their machines up this way, they would never get anybody to play after a jackpot was hit. Also, if the odds of a combo change, this means that the EV changes over time. I don't know about you, but I don't want to play a game whose EV changes in a way I can't predict. If something like this were true, these machines could tighten or loosen up based on any number of input. It would be very unfair.

So I agree with Jamie that it isn't fair. I do disagree tho that there is no reason to set up a machine like that. A machine rigged in this way will eventually take the same amount of casino profit as one that isn't, but programming slots in such a way would kill the variance completely. That's a good thing for an online casino that doesn't have the kind of start-up capital that the huge Vegas casinos etc do.

This is a very good point. I didn't think of that. I guess I should have said that there is no point in creating a situation of changing odds TO ATTRACT PLAYERS.

5 reel machines are always weighted. The positions of the reels are controlled by a microcomputer chip. There is not a single 5 reel game in the world that I know of which is free-wheeling.

No video slot machine spins independently or naturally. It does, however, post a random result based on the RNG, regardless of whether it is a normal or progressive slot, and regardless of any weighting.

Weighting only takes place outside the RNG, and so long as it:

By the way, for another example of weighted slots, how about those machines that build up "eggs" or "dynamite" or whatever, and once you hit the limit, the "jackpot" bursts and you get the credits?

I am not sure what you are saying here. 5 reel video slots do not have to be weighted, because there is no restriction of the physical reel. The virtual reel can simply be displayed. Some 5 reel machines MAY be weighted (I can't imagine why) but the statement that all of them are weighted is categorically false. How do you know the reels are weighted? Have you mapped out the reels and recorded the results and found disproportionate occurrences of certain positions/symbols?

Video slots don't actually "spin", but the RNG should behave perfectly randomly and if the virtual reels are represented by the animated reels, then functionally, video slots should give results exactly the same as an unweighted physical reel of the same dimensions and sequence.

Why would a company need to weight a video slot when they can just create more symbols on the animated reel? (Not to mention the fact that when you weight one symbol, you weight the ones immediately above and below by the same factor, albeit on a different set of paylines.)

I am not sure what your last example has to do with weighting. A certain percentage of the payout is dedicated to the bonus and is paid out when it is hit. Where does weighting come in?

 

[spearmaster]

Go ask the Wizard of Odds, he is probably the person with the most expertise on slots.

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Also, Vegas Reference

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Strangely enough, they seem to disagree on weighting of slots - and yet I can tell you this for a fact - Michael Bluejay manages the Wizard of Odds site for the Wiz

I do want to point out that both sites, when talking about slots, are referring to land-based machines, NOT online slots. The assertions they make about slots do not necessarily apply to online games.

What the Wiz says:

However this is not true of single line machines, which most slot machines are. The fact is that on single line machine each stop is electronically weighted and the probability of the reel stopping on each symbol is proportional to its weight.

...

Multi-line slots, both with physical as well as video display reels usually do not have weighted reels. Otherwise the process is the same as above. In video display slots representations of actual reels are used, which can be quite large, 60 symbols or more.

What Vegas Reference says:

The reels are weighted so that some symbols are more likely to hit than others. For example, the slot may pick a random number from 1-127, which might select the symbols as in this hypothetical table:"

I repeat - both of these people are talking about land-based slots in Vegas.

Online - it's easy enough to tell - map the reels and see what comes up. For a progressive, if you're talking 30 stops, it's definitely weighted.

I'm going to leave it right here. We've had this discussion before (well, at least Jamiester and I have) and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You can choose what to believe. And we can agree to disagree. But I continue to believe that I am correct based on my past experiences.

 

[guesswest]

Thanks much for digging out those links spear, very interesting reading.

Both those examples of 'weighting' refer to a very different thing to the kind of weighting that was being talked about here. The kind of weighting mentioned by both those guys just means that even tho (for example) there are 100 characters on a reel, one particular character might be 500 to 1 to show up because of weighting. Like I said I have no problem with that at all, it's just an easy way of creating a game without having a slot machine that physically takes up half a mile of floor space. It still offers fixed/constant odds on any particular combo, at all times, and it means that all reels effectively spin independently. Most importantly it means that the machine isn't sentient, that if you have a 'near miss' that it actually is a near miss, rather than some meaningless pretty looking display that was predetermined to pay nothing.

That kind of weighting is a completely different thing to a slot machine reacting to the size of a progressive jackpot by changing these odds about, making the jackpot combo more likely to appear when the progressive figure was large - and thus changing the frequency of every other combo artificially also. That's the difference between weighted and fixed, as it offers different odds and thus different expectation at different times. It means every spin is artificial.

I'm pretty sure land based progressives in reputable jurisdictions do not do this. To use the example of Megabucks again, I just did a bit of googling on this. A statistical average on Megabucks hitting is 1-2 weeks but it recently went 10 months without being hit. It's also been hit days apart. I'm not a good enough mathematician to calculate that exactly, and even if I was I can't be bothered - but my instinct is that that's the kind of deviation you'd expect to see with a fair game, and the kind of deviation which strongly suggests it's spinning on real/fixed odds. I don't know that the MG software artificially controls progressives/slots, but if it turns out they do I have a big problem with it, for all the reasons already mentioned

Anyhows, accept thats spear's done on this one, thanks for sharing your views - just wanted to throw that in myself, and maybes someone else has something to say on it

 

[spearmaster]

OK - your point is taken. I had no idea Megabucks was falling anywhere NEAR that often!

Re: near misses - in the past, and possibly still on some machines now, both online and land-based - a near miss was equal to any no-win spin, and was often rigged to show the near miss more often because it was for all intents and purposes the same result.

I understand that this is probably not allowed in Vegas anymore, maybe not Atlantic City as well - but I am dead certain that it still happens online.

Weighting of progressives - we'll leave that one for now. Because I am not a mathematician, nor am I the software programmer, I am in no position to say either way whether this is really happening or not, other than from my own experience. And this is not even likely to be the same from slot to slot - for example, Cashsplash regularly falls once-twice a day. I would think that this is typical of the type of progressive you favor as the jackpots odds are not likely to be that high and thus unlikely to have the type of weight I have been talking about.

Hell, maybe none of them have weights like I describe. But my past experience in playing (a bit) and watching/monitoring (a lot more than anyone else) says that either some of these jackpots do have this type of weight, or else someone is manipulating the odds by hand - for sure it is NOT what you are expecting.

 

[Simmo!]

Sorry to butt in but regarding the original topic, some guy called Tim F won the Cashalot for $1.2 million! I think at Jackpot City - well, i say that cos they are advertising the fact he won

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

...some guy called Tim F won the Cashalot for $1.2 million!

Wonder if they'll pay that over the next 20 years, like a lottery...

 

[spearmaster]

Wonder if they'll pay that over the next 20 years, like a lottery...

All Jumbo Jackpots (Microgaming) are paid out in a single lump sum.

 

[jamiester]

thanks for the reference...

Strangely enough, they seem to disagree on weighting of slots - and yet I can tell you this for a fact - Michael Bluejay manages the Wizard of Odds site for the Wiz

I do want to point out that both sites, when talking about slots, are referring to land-based machines, NOT online slots. The assertions they make about slots do not necessarily apply to online games.


Online - it's easy enough to tell - map the reels and see what comes up. For a progressive, if you're talking 30 stops, it's definitely weighted.

I'm going to leave it right here. We've had this discussion before (well, at least Jamiester and I have) and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You can choose what to believe. And we can agree to disagree. But I continue to believe that I am correct based on my past experiences.

I hadn't seen Bluejay's site before. I do want to point out that the quote of Bluejay's you cite above was in reference to 3 reel slots only, NOT video slots, so I don't think they disagree. (Interestingly, however,the Wizard contradicts himself on this subject on his own site!)
Also a quote from Bluejay's page you linked (talking about progressives):

The odds of hitting the jackpot are the same on every spin. It doesn't matter if the machine has been played for months or years without hitting the jackpot, the odds of hitting the jackpot on the next spin are ALWAYS the same. No slot is ever "due" to hit a jackpot. The universe doesn't work like that.

It is also cool that he mentions the Casino.net actually publishes the odds of their progressives (and they are static). That is very cool of them!

Near misses - On video 5 reel+ slots there are no near misses as there are no blank spots on the reels. Well, there are near misses, but they can't be programmed in to appear more often than chance would dictate.

You talk about your experience in watching slots and I am sure you have a lot. But that is just anecdotal observation. You really need a statistical analysis of results to be able to make a claim of changing odds or whatever.

You are going to believe what you want, I guess, but I think we should point out if you saying things that we feel are not true or don't make sense. No offense intended.

 

[spearmaster]

I repeat - Bluejay is talking about land-based slots in Vegas. That does not make them any more fair than other slots elsewhere - just that they meet Nevada standards.

Also, he is correct in saying a slot is never due. Even under the scenario I described, it does not make a slot any more due - otherwise there would have to be a point (in theory) where a slot MUST pay off in order to meet its published or unpublished odds. That is what a fruit machine in the UK would do.

Any variance in odds of hitting the jackpot would still be very limited - it would never go from say 10 million to 1 to 1 million to 1. It might, however, slide from 10 million to 9 million over a fairly lengthy period of time. There obviously has to be some sort of limit on how much variance in odds there could possibly be.

Now - if one person is playing the slots, and no one else, obviously his odds would remain quite long and the jackpot might last forever - it's the increase in the number of people playing, and subsequently the amount of chances generated, which will eventually crack a jackpot under the right circumstances. This is the same under any normal scenario.

Anyway, back to the point - Michael Bluejay is talking about land-based slots. I am not aware that he has any direct experience with online slots - however, the Wiz does have experience analyzing online slots for sure - so he would be the best person to put this question to for an informed answer.

Me, I'm just offering my opinion. And by "watching slots", I mean watching progressive slots, ever since they evolved on the Net starting with CashSplash. However, as you say, to be conclusive, you would need statistical analysis - which I don't have, which is why I say it's my opinion, and not stating that anything is fact

Near misses - I was actually referring to three-reel slots I haven't heard anything about a 5-reel slot being programmed for near misses - and it doesn't always take a blank to cause a near miss

 

[Daffy]

Inquiring minds...

Spear-"Because the player doesn't know that, and because MGS will never reveal how their progressives are set up - nor will any other operator - it stands to reason that people will still play progressives, newly reset or not, because there is still a chance that they will win the jackpot."

Hard to believe that in 5+ years no one has divulged the progressive info...no disgruntled former employees.

Possibly they put it together like a "secret" pyramid...several programmers working independantly on a portion...no one knows the whole product.

the dUck

Edit-I guess I could tell all about how I built the racecar...but I wouldn't have a clue how the driver was going to drive it.

 

[guesswest]

however, the Wiz does have experience analyzing online slots for sure - so he would be the best person to put this question to for an informed answer.

I did drop Mr. Wizard an email linking this thread, in case he could enlighten us any. I suspect he likely has better uses of his time tho

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

I suspect he likely has better uses of his time tho

Like using his knowledge to defeat casinos...

 

[cheekymonkey]

In 's too....

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Can't remember the jackpot being this high before.

 

[gullcry]

Two questions for anybody that knows!

1. As this mega-jackpot is generated across all MG casino's in one huge 'prize pool', how come the jackpot is $1,187,172 or 1,187,172 (depending which currency you play in) = vastly different amounts of cash?

Actually it is not just pounds or dollars. You can win this progressive on South Africa's Piggs Peak Casino and will be paid out in Rands.

1 Pound= 14 Rand. A lot of the progressives get won on PiggsPeak. If you look at their winners table you can see this. And I remember someone winning the King Cashelot Jackpot there about two or three years ago.

 

[Addisyn]

Then the answer is to wait for the smaller jackpot. LOL... I have been trying for that jackpot on and off for a month. Let's just say with those odds I am now off. I am not lottery winner lucky. :notworthy

 

[tennis_balls]

actually I won the damm thing, but the casino e-mailed me to say I would be banned from future promotions unless I declined the jackpot. i'm still digesting the whole situation...

 

[cheekymonkey]

actually I won the damm thing, but the casino e-mailed me to say I would be banned from future promotions unless I declined the jackpot. i'm still digesting the whole situation...

 

[gullcry]

Since my post last night I just had another quick look at Piggs Peak winners page. The Mega Moohla jackpot was hit there on 25 December- 39000. But as this is paid out in South African Rands it only cost Microgaming about 2000 odd pounds.

The way I see it is that every time someone hits a proggressive there, Microgaming saves a bundle. I just wonder how this imbalace is addressed? Also you cannot play the Rand version unless you have a Rands credit card. I know because I have tried to open an account there and was denied

 

[Simmo!]

The way I see it is that every time someone hits a proggressive there, Microgaming saves a bundle. I just wonder how this imbalace is addressed?

Interesting question. It should theoretically mean the reset value for the next one is higher. But wonder if anyone's ever checked.

 

[nektar4d]

its done!

"this email is to let you know that King Cashalot has just been won for $1,745,471."