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King Cashalot

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Slotster!, Sep 13, 2005.

    Sep 13, 2005
  1. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Well, it seems all the casinos are getting very excited about the progressive jackpot amount on this one!

    I can't open my email without seeing another promo from XYZ casino telling me I'm just 2.25 away from becoming a millionaire!!

    As I type, the latest email says it's at "1,187,172 & rising"

    Now I don't really ever play progressive slots online due to the lack of decent features and poor returns I've experienced in the past, but I might just go crazy and give this one a spin! Out of interest, anyone got any idea of the odds of lining those five kings up on the the relevant payline and hitting it big?...

    P.S - How cool would it be if we could get the progressive hit screenshot posted up on the "winner screenshots" thread! :thumbsup:
     
  2. Sep 13, 2005
  3. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Two questions for anybody that knows!

    1. As this mega-jackpot is generated across all MG casino's in one huge 'prize pool', how come the jackpot is $1,187,172 or 1,187,172 (depending which currency you play in) = vastly different amounts of cash? :confused:

    2. I believe this machine can be played with different numbers of coins (?) - so is the chance of hitting the jackpot the same at min coins as it is at max coins?
    (Should be if it is truly random)
     
  4. Sep 13, 2005
  5. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    For question 2, it says in the paytable that the progressive is only payed when betting with max coins. So if you hit it with less coins you'd get the standard 15000x payout for 5 wilds (still pretty nice!).

    Question 1 tho I don't know the answer to, and have always wondered this myself. In fact, IS it payable in any currency? Had occured to me that they might just pay it in $ regardless of account currency. Anyone know?
     
  6. Sep 13, 2005
  7. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    Oops I should have read that more closely. Guess that means it does pay in . Still intrigued how they do this tho.
     
  8. Sep 13, 2005
  9. ergopro

    ergopro Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Gamblers Anonymous
    I read somewhere that the jackpot pays in the currency your account is set with...so if the jackpot shows 1million and you have a account, then it pays 1million , and if you have a $ account...then it pays 1million $...strange but that's how it works...
     
  10. Sep 13, 2005
  11. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    Yep that bit we've got. Question is how is this jackpot funded, 1 million is almost twice as much money as 1 million $.......
     
  12. Sep 13, 2005
  13. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I had a play on this one for the first time yesterday. Not a lot mind, but actually it wasnt a bad little slot. Some nice smaller hits between $40 and $150 to keep me going, ended up around even after 400 spins or so.

    If its like Tstruck, then its probably 30 symbols a reel making the chances of the Jackpot on Line 9 1/30(n5) or 1 in 24.3 million if my maths is right and it was truly random.

    However, MG slots are weighted, so who knows.

    Cheers

    Simmo!
     
  14. Sep 13, 2005
  15. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    :eek2:

    I'm pressing the 'bet max' button with slightly less optimism than earlier! Heh hee...
     
  16. Sep 13, 2005
  17. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    The base currency used to be dollars, but is now pounds sterling because it is the most valuable as a single unit.

    If it is hit in pounds, the winner gets the entire amount and the jackpot resets to the seed value (100,000).

    If it is hit in any other currency, the winner gets the amount in the currency he is playing in, and the jackpot resets to the seed value plus the difference between pounds sterling and aforementioned currency.

    Here's a good tip for you though. In my experience - watching, not winning - if a progressive does not reset to near seed value (ie the jackpot is not won in pounds sterling) another jackpot will fall shortly thereafter. I don't know why this is, but it's true, at least with the Microgaming jackpots.
     
  18. Sep 13, 2005
  19. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    If that's true - it's not random! :eek:
     
  20. Sep 13, 2005
  21. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    It's random.

    Like I said, I can't explain it - other than perhaps weighting, which Simmo and I have discussed elsewhere. Doesn't change the randomness of the game - only increases the chances of better wins.

    My assumption is that, the longer the jackpot goes, the more likely it is to be hit (online, that is). This is due not only to more people playing, but also likely to be because the chances of hitting the jackpot increase because of a "weight" - in this case, the value of the jackpot.

    When the jackpot is hit, the weight may not necessarily shift to a lower value - ie "decreasing" the chances of hitting the jackpot - until such time as a full "reset" is triggered when another jackpot is hit and forces the weight to be lifted when it drops below a certain value.

    Another way to look at it - some of you have probably seen mechanical devices or games, where a container will fill up with water - when it reaches a certain level, it dumps all the water - not part of it - and when it is empty it returns to its original position and starts to receive water again.


    Besides, why would anyone complain if the chances of hitting the jackpot increase? :D
     
  22. Sep 13, 2005
  23. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    Well in my case because it means the chance is decreased at other times. And I'd like to think when I click spin I have the same chance of hitting at all times.

    If that is the case, though I certainly wouldnt' go as far as to say it's dishonest - well, I'm guessing most people who spin at newly restarted progressives are unaware of this. It'd basically mean the gamblers fallacy is true right?
     
  24. Sep 13, 2005
  25. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Your chances never decrease. They are at their lowest when the jackpot is reset.

    If you have the same slim chance when a jackpot is reset as when a jackpot reaches huge values, you have the same slim chance of winning. Or, as the jackpot grows, your chances increase.

    Personally, I know which way I'd rather have it. I'm not saying that all progressives work this way, mind you - there are almost certainly some, if not many, progressives which have the same 1 in infinity odds of being hit - for example, how often does Megabucks in Vegas get hit?

    I'd rather have more jackpots of a decent size, say a million or two, than one long-running jackpot which, when paid out, is paid over twenty years, and pays out way more money than you know what to do with - so you go and squander it. There has to be a line between common sense and unrealistically high values which ill-serve the winner, and are generally less enjoyed, and perhaps even less popular.

    Put simply - give me a choice between 10 chances at a million bucks, and 1 chance at 10 million bucks, and I'll take the 10 chances every single time.
     
  26. Sep 13, 2005
  27. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta

    I certainly agree that I wouldn't want to see Megabucks style silly jackpots online, 1 in 23 million or whatever it is is poor enough odds for me :D

    I likewise recognise that 'weighted' isn't the same as 'fixed'. But my issue with it is this: If they, for instance, calculated that the likelihood of hitting a progressive by counting average amount of wagers to get to that point would work out to 500k average jackpot. Then without weighting, should that progressive reach the 500k mark, the average amount of wagers for it to hit from that point, is still 500k. The same way 15 blacks on a roulette table don't make red any more likely the next time around.

    Having a progressive jackpot set up like that doesn't make the average jackpots bigger, it just means they don't have tipping points. Sometimes it'd be 200k sometimes it'd be 2 mil, but everyone spinning at it would have an identical chance of hitting it. Megabucks hardly ever hits because there are like 1 in a gazillion odds of lining up the reels the right way, not because it isn't weighted.

    I was under the assumption that this was how MG progressives worked, strictly on real odds, and I'd guess a lot of people are - if they weren't, I can't see many people playing them when they're newly reset. And I feel bad for anyone oblivious to this playing newly reset progressives when 'weighting' makes their minute chance of hitting even smaller.

    Is there an official MG blurb anywhere on how their slots/progressives work?
     
  28. Sep 13, 2005
  29. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I'm not quite sure if we're on the same level here.

    Everyone spinning always has an identical chance at hitting it, compared to the next player.

    However, at $200K, you have 1 in x chances to hit the jackpot - whether that be 100, or 1 million, or whatever, it should be pretty obvious that it's not exactly something in your favor to begin with.

    Because the player doesn't know that, and because MGS will never reveal how their progressives are set up - nor will any other operator - it stands to reason that people will still play progressives, newly reset or not, because there is still a chance that they will win the jackpot.

    I doubt that there are more than 1 out of every 100 people that have any idea whatsoever what the odds against hitting Megabucks is. But they still play anyhow.

    That's human nature - "maybe it's my turn", "what the hell, it's only twenty bucks", "I brought my lucky rabbit's foot this time", "That's the seat I hit 3 bars on last time", "Honey you're so lucky, maybe if we both push the button at the same time, we'll hit the jackpot"... this list goes on and on and on.

    Needless to say, even if they KNEW what the odds were, they'd still play.
     
  30. Sep 13, 2005
  31. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    I was talking about variance on where the jackpot would hit with the $200k/$2mil thing, from the $500k example - not the odds of hitting it.

    With regards to everyone sharing the same odds, everyone only shares a 1 in x chance of hitting a progressive if the chances of that progressive being hit are always the same. If a progressive is more likely to hit when a fund has built up, ie if it's weighted or has a programmed 'bursting point', the odds aren't always the same - it means you get 1 in x chance of hitting when it's reset, and 1 in y chance of hitting later on when it's built up. Those aren't 'real odd's. Ultimately, if the likelihood of hitting a progressive jackpot is in any way at all related to the it's size at the time, or when it was last won, then you don't have an identical chance of hitting on every spin.

    Obviously the odds of hitting a jackpot like that are terrible under any circumstances. But if they're weighted, if they have a payout loop, then player A playing on a recently reset progressive isn't getting the same odds on hitting a jackpot as player B who played it last week before someone won it, necessarily. And one of the reasons jackpots like Megabucks aren't weighted like that, is I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), that it's illegal to do so in NV.
     
  32. Sep 14, 2005
  33. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I'm not too sure about the rules in Nevada relating to progressives, I suppose I can go find that out - but I can tell you that this is still a normal practice in places like Australia, for example.

    With video poker - definitely no weighting in Vegas or elsewhere. Slots fall under different rules though so I'd have to look into that.
     
  34. Sep 14, 2005
  35. jamiester

    jamiester Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Overnight dispatcher
    Location:
    Hampshire County, MA
    The odds of hitting the jackpot should never change. The odds should be constant on any spin, independant of jackpot size or anything. The odds do not change with jackpot size. There is no reason to make a machine that complex, not to mention that it wouldn't be fair.
     
  36. Sep 14, 2005
  37. guesswest

    guesswest Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    xxx
    Location:
    Malta
    Looks like some lucky person hit Cashalot. Progressive now stands at 590k, be interesting to see if the re-hit theory proves true.
     
  38. Sep 14, 2005
  39. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    It's not complex at all. This is a very simple thing to implement.

    I would, however, like to know why you think this is not fair, since:

    1. Your chances increase at the same rate as everyone else's. There is no bias in favor of or against any player.
    2. The odds cannot be (or shouldn't be) able to be manipulated by a human, and do not swing high/low - odds only decrease over time in a standard fashion until the jackpot is hit (ie there are no fluctuations).

    There should be no problem with this method being used under any jurisdiction as long as it is clear that no one can gain any direct advantage from anything but the passing of time, or a direct correlation between odds and value of jackpot.
     

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