Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[Vesuvio]

It was always going to be far too easy for the casino to fudge its way out of.

I tend to agree that it's more than a little disingenuous for most of the players involved to claim they thought they'd been made instant VIPs (though less knowledgable players might have thought so), but I think the point is this isn't something the casino can "fudge its way out of".

They've had to go in for wholesale falsification of records and various incoherent claims to cover the fact that there isn't even a get-out clause to cover them in this case. All players have done is clicked to cash-in comp points at the rate announced in the software before they played. There was no software error (if the software processed claims at a different rate to the one shown that would have been a software error).

I disagree with those giving in to Joyland's "abuse" claims so that they can claim their "legitimate" (minus the comp points) winnings. The comp rate was just part of the way the casino was set up - and as ever players tried to make money however they could. If the casino was too generous (as others have been with bonuses), they just have to pay up and heed the lesson for the future. We'll still have to see if they will, of course, but if they don't they'll be dragging down the reputation of a number of companies that are much bigger than Joyland.

 

[freakin]

The key being "assume". However VIP anyone is, a 4% comp rate is extraordinary. To achieve such a level, if such exists, a player would have to be a seriously known quantity as a provenly serious sucker, with a lot of sucker-play history in the bag at the casino in question. To achieve that 4% level on signup is, I'm sure, unheard of. On that basis, yes, this was an unreasonable assumption. And again, the key is "assumption": there was no written backup to any of this. It was always going to be far too easy for the casino to fudge its way out of.

I recently saw a new casino start up. The promotions manager had obviously shown a complete lack of research in the world of signup bonuses, because they were offering an extremely generous blackjack bonus with a low wagering requirement. I knew that within a short period of time they would realize their mistake and correct it. They did. They corrected it by changing the terms and condition, and the $ amount of their bonus; they did not correcting it by screaming bonus abuse on all teh players who had accepted their offer and seizing their bonus + winnings. Even without any bonus, I would highly recommend this casino (and I have) to anyone looking for a place to play. Yeah, they lost money, but they surely gained some legitimate players because of it.

Joyland needs to realize that they have a group of 7 or 8 casinos that are quite well known in the world of online gambling. I do not think the amount they lost in this situation is more than 500,000 (and thats probably pushing it). How long do you think it takes to earn that much money? I'm guessing it's no more than a couple months. They handled this incredibly stupidly, and refusal to pay out is going to cost them a helluva lot more in the long run.

If they were smart, they would have said something like 'We're so generous that we paid out a half-million during a comp-point promo! Stay tuned for our next crazy promotion!'

Freakin

 

[The Gunslinger]

Joyland needs to realize that they have a group of 7 or 8 casinos that are quite well known in the world of online gambling. I do not think the amount they lost in this situation is more than 500,000 (and thats probably pushing it). How long do you think it takes to earn that much money? I'm guessing it's no more than a couple months. They handled this incredibly stupidly, and refusal to pay out is going to cost them a helluva lot more in the long run.

If they were smart, they would have said something like 'We're so generous that we paid out a half-million during a comp-point promo! Stay tuned for our next crazy promotion!'

Freakin

And Freakin, I think you touched on the bottom line here.

When does it become profitable to screw players? Joyland must realize that along with their own reputation, they're juggling that of Mon. Gold, NY Casino, Club Dice, Carnival ... etc. etc. Not to mention the fact that as could be expected over half (I didn't count) of this thread is blaming the software provider along with the casino. I figured that although we were stirring up a ruckus here on Casinomeister, it would still in the end be more profitable for the casino to just screw all of the players and wait for it all to blow over. That is until I found Link Removed (invalid URL) (safe.)

I think Joyland's management needs a simple weekend course in business critical analysis.

On one hand, if they don't pay the players:

+ They keep however much they would have had to pay out to players (an upper estimate seems to cap at $500,000)

o They establish industry precident for the non-payment of players on an extremely wide scale using the grounds of "a software error," which it clearly was not. Easily a "misconfiguration," possibly a deceptive tactic, but at any rate: Not a software malfunctionn.

- They incur what will undoubtedly be irrepairable damages to their single casino's reputation. A reputation which was brand new all of a two months ago.

- They incur what must be highly significant damages to the reputation of all other casinos which people the public is able to link them to, a group that extends at least to two other casinos, and more than likely to a majority of the popular Playtechs (sans the Golden Palace casinos.)

- They incur what will likely be significant damages to the reputation of the entire family of Playtech casinos, including what is possibly the most publicly well known online casino "Golden Palace."

- They incur what could possibly be temporary damages to the reputation of the online gaming world as a whole.

- Eventual losses no doubt in the millions over the long term for Joyland and it's related parties due to their actions in this dispute.


On the other hand, if they just pay the players:

+ (Most Significant) They will likely be able to salavage their reputation and repair what damage has been done to it thus far by "firing someone" and making good on what they should have done in the first place. Thus not causing damage to their reputation, nor their groups, nor Playtechs, nor Online Gaming as a whole.

+ They gain a publicity free pass card from the payment from the comp system, as well as easing the worries of anyone who would worry about depositing at their casino.

+ They get to keep their investment and continue from this day forward as a profitable casino (as most are) with a great deal of free advertising.

- They're out $500,000 (max) to players they have as creditors.

.... THAT'S THE ONLY DOWNSIDE FOR JOYLAND. I DON'T GET IT!!!!

This is making really clear to us how much whatever kinda money Joyland owes to it's players it worth to them. It's pointing out that if an Online Casino can screw you for that much money, they will screw you for that much money.

To the Joyland rep. involved in this dispute ... I ask that you listen. Regardless what you decide to do, I believe my assessment is generally accurate. I think your paramount concern should be that your point of no return (I'd imagine) is approaching at alarming speed. Either you're going to drag this out too far, and players are going to perminently lose faith in you, your affiliates, and your software ... you're going to flat out say you're not paying anymore people ... or someone's gunna get you on record saying somthing you shouldn't ... and when that happens, you'll be past the point of no return, and you'll have lost much more than whatever withholding players rightfull winnings could have gained you.

Why not make this right while you still have the chance?

The Gunslinger

 

[thelawnet]

After my account got credited (~ $1100) and I cashed-in, Joyland contacted me saying they forgot to subtract the 808 bonus. On the previous call I was told I could cash-in the full amount.
I only got ~$300, so that sucks. I'm done with this casino.

Can I clarify?

You deposit 500, they gave you 800.

You won a lot of comps, leaving you well in profit

They said 'we aren't going to pay you the comps, but you can have your 500 back like everyone else'

You 'considering I won without comps, can you please deduct them and give me my winnings?'

Casino 'ok'

a short time later:

Casino 'ha ha. Even though when you signed up you probably did so partly because of the comps, and as a result of them you won a good amount, so we thought we would just give you your deposit back. But now you've let us take the comps away, we have a special joyland surprise for you! Guess what?

You're not even getting your 500 back. Only 300 for you!'

Joyland - where the joy never stops.

 

[Amsterdamn]

Can I clarify?
You're not even getting your 500 back. Only 300 for you!'

No.
I got my 500 deposit back two weeks ago, like everybody else.
Yesterday I got 300 more.

 

[jon593]

No.
I got my 500 deposit back two weeks ago, like everybody else.
Yesterday I got 300 more.

whan you originally cashed out did the bonus get removed? i know it got removed from my account

 

[Amsterdamn]

whan you originally cashed out did the bonus get removed? i know it got removed from my account

Deposit: 500
Bonus: 808

Played, total of 464 comps

Cashout: 1214 (with bonus removed)

Deposit back: 500
Account credited: 1080
Cashout: (after removal from 808 'bonus') 272

Total winnings: 1214
Total from Joyland: 772

 

[funeralparty]

I think the thing that amazes me most about this thread is that people still play on their garbage software.

Had I taken the bonus and played at this casino, I would have assumed the generous comps were adjusted to make up for Playtech's rigged BJ games

 

[freakin]

I think the thing that amazes me most about this thread is that people still play on their garbage software.

Had I taken the bonus and played at this casino, I would have assumed the generous comps were adjusted to make up for Playtech's rigged BJ games

I :heart: playtech.

It's probably my favorite software to play VP on. I just wish they'd take care of this situation so I could actually support them and continue playing.

Freakin

 

[Lord_Have_Mercy]

I :heart: playtech.

It's probably my favorite software to play VP on. I just wish they'd take care of this situation so I could actually support them and continue playing.

Freakin

Support them or your habit? All Playtech casinos should be ban not just until they straighten this matter out. But also until they provide facts to prove their BJ is fair. We players have the power right now to bring Playtech down to its knees. I would suggest we all boycott them as a whole until everyone's questions are answered. DOWN WITH PLAYTECH :axeman2:

 

[andrew26]

Since Joyland and Playtech have decided to go about dealing with this matter in the most sleazy manner possible, I now introduce you to my new signature for this and other online discussion groups:

JOYLAND casino and Playtech Gaming STOLE my money.
Read all about it here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

We, as players, cannot let this casino group get away with this incredibly offensive activity without any damage to the reputations involved.

All the online casinos have going for them is the trust of the online gaming public. Without that they will fold. I ask you to join me in publicizing this matter outside of this thread and making sure that Joyland and Playtech are held accountable for this sleazy and dishonest way of doing business.

 

[caruso]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

 

[jon593]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

no, i have not tried to contact them because they are just trying to sweep things under the rug and get off with out paying out what they really owe

although if i were htis person i would contact them soon

 

[ElDuderino]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

Nope! I would contact them (as invited to do so by their rep in this thread), but their total lack of professionalism (along with their tag of "abuser" on anyone who redeemed comp points AT THE RATE THEY SET THEM AT) means that I will wait til CM gets back and let Mr. Bailey address this for me. I will not extend myself to a group of people who makes such poor decisions and disrespect me so.

-Dude

 

[The Dude]

The Pitch a Bitch section will be reopened shortly, and I'd appreciate it if all players who have complaints concerning Joyland (besides those who have already filled out the form) to please submit a complaint through me:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

This will give me the info I need to review and forward to the concerned parties. Thanks!

 

[qazwsx]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

 

[GOCC]

I note from your post qazwsx you call them "Cowardice and Unethical"

This coming from someone who has joined today to just post this message criticising others. There is a Private forum at Rpoints as well but no one mentions that.


I dont know what the bug was as I only play Microgaming

 

[cardsandmore]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

How is the private forum at BW secret & hidden? I am a lurker there and even I know it exists because it is spelled out in the public forums. Heck they even tell you how to get admitted if you really want in. Sounds to me like a disgruntled ex poster from there since you are only attacking them. I don't really know anyone there since I only lurk but it has really helped me in the past so I don't see how your attacks are warranted.

 

[thelawnet]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

How is playing at an advantage evil? Casinos do it all the time.

The players on the evil players list were involved in fraud, faking screenshots, chargebacks, etc.

From what I can see the only fraud here is Joyland's in deleting records.

Or does sharing this in a group make it wrong? Like the forums that list mispriced Dell PCs. Those guys are evil too?

 

[Vesuvio]

Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few.

That would be the forum mentioned on the public forum on a thread with a title along the lines of "a public private forum" - not exactly a "secret, hidden forum"

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

Why on earth does it matter if people have played at a casino because someone else recommended it to them - or after discussing it with others? It doesn't change any of the issues here. Are you saying that if someone recommends a good bonus to me and I play it I'm evil!? Somehow I get the feeling you work for Joyland and decided to try going on the offensive to cover up your own stupidity and fraud.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

Thieves!? You've got some twisted morals there, qazwsx (gotta love those anonymous forum names ). If seeing a good offer and taking advantage of it makes you a thief I'd love to know which circle of hell you'd consign the casino to for refusing to pay players who played by its rules

p.s. for the record I don't post at the forum in question and have never played at Joyland.

 

[qazwsx]

That would be the forum mentioned on the public forum on a thread with a title along the lines of "a public private forum" - not exactly a "secret, hidden forum"
Why on earth does it matter if people have played at a casino because someone else recommended it to them - or after discussing it with others? It doesn't change any of the issues here. Are you saying that if someone recommends a good bonus to me and I play it I'm evil!? Somehow I get the feeling you work for Joyland and decided to try going on the offensive to cover up your own stupidity and fraud.
Thieves!? You've got some twisted morals there, qazwsx (gotta love those anonymous forum names ). If seeing a good offer and taking advantage of it makes you a thief I'd love to know which circle of hell you'd consign the casino to for refusing to pay players who played by its rules

p.s. for the record I don't post at the forum in question and have never played at Joyland.

The issue in this particular situation is that particular community.

If someone sees a slot machine paying every pull, many would sit and play rather than contact the casino. In this case, they all called their buddies over to play. Then when the error was found, instead of moving on and being happy they got their funds back, they had the nerve to bring it to a regulatory forum and waste precious time of the Webmaster.

They are thieves for pursuing their claims and should all be added to the EVIL list. For the record, I am an active member of that community so the previous poster that mentions my motives a disgruntled, I respond that I posted there as recently as 2 hours ago.

 

[scrollock]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

hey hey well qwascx, i guess this is another member of the well known Rpoints forum members creating a new identity on casinomeister out of spite.

yes their is people who have abused the system, but does that allow the casino to just arbitarily void everyones winnings?

 

[The Dude]

Hi all,

Just popping in at 2:30 AM my time to put out a fire before it starts. No portal wars in this thread please. That's the quickest way to derail a thread. If ya'll want to hammer away at each other (in a civilized manner) feel free to start a new thread. Thanks!

 

[cardsandmore]

The issue in this particular situation is that particular community.

If someone sees a slot machine paying every pull, many would sit and play rather than contact the casino. In this case, they all called their buddies over to play. Then when the error was found, instead of moving on and being happy they got their funds back, they had the nerve to bring it to a regulatory forum and waste precious time of the Webmaster.

They are thieves for pursuing their claims and should all be added to the EVIL list. For the record, I am an active member of that community so the previous poster that mentions my motives a disgruntled, I respond that I posted there as recently as 2 hours ago.

then why are you trying to hide your identity with a new name? Because you post doesn't mean you aren't disgruntled. Did you get denied admission to this super secret forum you speak of? Your attacks here seem to be motivated by hatred than the fact the casinos aren't honoring their side of the deal. I could care less about what goes on at BW but I am interested in why you have such a hatred for them.

 

[The Dude]

then why are you trying to hide your identity with a new name? Because you post doesn't mean you aren't disgruntled. Did you get denied admission to this super secret forum you speak of? Your attacks here seem to be motivated by hatred than the fact the casinos aren't honoring their side of the deal. I could care less about what goes on at BW but I am interested in why you have such a hatred for them.

Please read my last post - thanks!

 

[cardsandmore]

Please read my last post - thanks!

Sorry you are right. I think we were posting at the same time.


Back on topic - has anyone been able to get through on the phone of late? I just tried and still got no response.

 

[qazwsx]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

 

[JohnGalt]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

99.99% means 9,999 out of 10,000. That's obviously not the case here. You say the problem honestly only applies to a handful of vocal thieves, but how could you possibly know? You are clearly being disingenuous and biased for some reason.

And what exactly is a zero sum game?????

There's plenty of blame to go around here, but lets try to be fair and not 100% one-sided about something that obviously involves both parties.

Clearly a lot of completely innocent people got caught up in this problem, far more than 1 in 10,000. And I don't know why you equate "advantage player" with "thief". You post at BW and you're not an advantage player? You must feel very lonely there. I can't see how "advantage player" is a pejorative term.

But nevertheless, many innocent people have not been paid and joyland still has not explained their alteration of the transaction records or how this mistake was made and allowed to continue for a week. These are very serious problems that have not been addressed by the casino at all. Clearly there is far more to this situation than a few vocal "thieves"

 

[scrollock]

99.99% means 9,999 out of 10,000. That's obviously not the case here. You say the problem honestly only applies to a handful of vocal thieves, but how could you possibly know? You are clearly being disingenuous and biased for some reason.

And what exactly is a zero sum game?????

There's plenty of blame to go around here, but lets try to be fair and not 100% one-sided about something that obviously involves both parties.

Clearly a lot of completely innocent people got caught up in this problem, far more than 1 in 10,000. And I don't know why you equate "advantage player" with "thief". You post at BW and you're not an advantage player? You must feel very lonely there. I can't see how "advantage player" is a pejorative term.

But nevertheless, many innocent people have not been paid and joyland still has not explained their alteration of the transaction records or how this mistake was made and allowed to continue for a week. These are very serious problems that have not been addressed by the casino at all. Clearly there is far more to this situation than a few vocal "thieves"

by far the best and most unbiased post in this whole entire thread.

 

[scrollock]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

calling casinomeister, no offence that this poster is out of kilter with the rest of us here,as that is the right of every member, however for example John Galt who in no way supports the joyland protesters has even taken exception to his post in that it is suspect.

would a quick IP check do anygood? i mean it would be very revealing it if showed up as st johns wood in antigua.

 

[Annorax]

Hi, I'm having a bit of an identity crisis. I think I'm a Joyland supporter, and I'm irrationally and wrongfully calling hundreds of people thieves. Or maybe I'm a Joyland shill, I don't know. Link Outdated / Removed to do the right thing with me!

Fixed your post. Can we get an IP check on this guy?

 

[jetset]

If q-whatever is a Joyland person it would be evidence of incredible ineptitude or maybe even criminal stupidity to try to mount a defence at Casinomeister in this manner.

Yet the poster does seem to know way more about the casino side of this disgraceful incident than the rest of us, which makes me suspicious.

And this reference to a "bug" in the Playtech software frankly bugs me, because it seems to me that there are strong indications that this was a casino employee error (on the comp points) for which the casino now seeks to transfer the cost to its players. Not a sensible or responsible strategy in my view.

John Galt's post really goes to the heart of this distraction, and the questions he raises remain unanswered by Joyland.

Was this a software fault for which Playtech is answerable, or was it a human error on the casino side?

Why were the transaction logs tampered with (and incidentally, if BW expunged their posts on this issue, it is a little rich for Joyland to be calling them on it in protesting their own innocence - the pot calling the kettle black)

How does q-whatever know who was and who was not penalised by Joyland's actions, or is this just a guess on his or her part?

The casino seemingly screwed up on its comp points over a surprisingly long timespan that could indicate negligence as well as incompetence, yet they are castigating the player community for their own mistakes.

 

[qazwsx]

John Galt who in no way supports the joyland protesters has even taken exception to his post in that it is suspect

ROFL

The same John Galt that spends 23 hours a day posting at bonuswhores? The same John Galt that may not have been involved, but has a dozen friends that are owed five figures?

Yes, he is uninvolved and unbiased </sarcasm>

 

[qazwsx]

If q-whatever is a Joyland person it would be evidence of incredible ineptitude or maybe even criminal stupidity to try to mount a defence at Casinomeister in this manner.

Yet the poster does seem to know way more about the casino side of this disgraceful incident than the rest of us, which makes me suspicious.

And this reference to a "bug" in the Playtech software frankly bugs me, because it seems to me that there are strong indications that this was a casino employee error (on the comp points) for which the casino now seeks to transfer the cost to its players. Not a sensible or responsible strategy in my view.

John Galt's post really goes to the heart of this distraction, and the questions he raises remain unanswered by Joyland.

Was this a software fault for which Playtech is answerable, or was it a human error on the casino side?

Why were the transaction logs tampered with (and incidentally, if BW expunged their posts on this issue, it is a little rich for Joyland to be calling them on it in protesting their own innocence - the pot calling the kettle black)

How does q-whatever know who was and who was not penalised by Joyland's actions, or is this just a guess on his or her part?

The casino seemingly screwed up on its comp points over a surprisingly long timespan that could indicate negligence as well as incompetence, yet they are castigating the player community for their own mistakes.

Promo log entries for Playtech partners are not the responsibility of Playtech. I defy any of these "victims" to present one altered play log regarding actual wagering on games.

Why would the casino alter anything that reads

500-red
500-black
50-zero

This is their proof, not something that would be altered. Regardless, for the record, this site can't alter play logs. Why can't you people see you are being manipulated by greedy people that are BAD for online gaming and future online bonuses?

Correction, the people see it. Only those repeating themselves here are the ones arguing. That's because they are the sour grapes morons who got caught and can't understand why they are thieves to begin with.

 

[jetset]

Once again qazwsx claims a surprisingly detailed level of knowledge about a poster here in his *expose* of John Galt, and then follows it with more insulting comment and detail from the casino perspective.

Come on Q - 'fess up - how close are you to Joyland or Playtech?

And what makes you believe that the player community should pay for Joyland's mistakes?

 

[The Gunslinger]

Promo log entries for Playtech partners are not the responsibility of Playtech. I defy any of these "victims" to present one altered play log regarding actual wagering on games.

Why would the casino alter anything that reads

500-red
500-black
50-zero

This is their proof, not something that would be altered. Regardless, for the record, this site can't alter play logs. Why can't you people see you are being manipulated by greedy people that are BAD for online gaming and future online bonuses?

Correction, the people see it. Only those repeating themselves here are the ones arguing. That's because they are the sour grapes morons who got caught and can't understand why they are thieves to begin with.

Hahahahahaha.

500 Red
500 Black
50 Zero.

First off it's "Green" when refered to in this context, second off that's not a "Zero Sum Bet" as you previously refered to.

However, your tactics are again blatently obvious.

First you come into this thread and make all types of assertion beyond what a player would typically know in your position, then when someone mentions it, you shoot back with comments that plainly seem ignorant. The above mentioned quote, along with your general comment regarding altering of what you now seem to believe are game logs, whilst the whole time everyone has been saying it's the modification of transaction histories, and what is even more rediculous is your asertation of break even betting, which players on this thread (at least 1 in every 10,000 lol) have said they played video poker, one player must've even been playing $5 coins. I've busted out $5,000 balances before playing Video Poker with $5 coins, it's not exactly a break even kinda stratagy.

So my inclination is to say that you are either someone slanted for the casinos who has come on this thread trying to stir the pot, you said more than you should, and is now trying to backpeddel by slipping in inconsistancies and plainly wrong assertations. OR, you could be a player who thinks that posting anonymously is doing more good than hard by trying to misrepresent the casino side of things, which would be a highly misguided view.

Of course there is a possibility you are who you say you are, an affluent member of the BW community, but then why exactly would you be doing what you are doing. My only reason for mentioning that is the train of logic is simple.

If you are not who you say you are (which is highly likely the case,) then you found it nessisary to lie about who you are, so if you found it nessisary to lie about who you are, you are obviously someone who does not want their views tied to their identity.

The only question is ... why?

The Gunslinger

p.s. I saw the irrelivant shot you took at John Galt for being a member of BW. Obviously I've made no attempt to conceal my identity, as niether has he. I have no money whatsoever tied up in Joyland, and my only interest in this thread is to see that this precident doesn't get set that casinos can refuse payment in the event of essentially what turns out to be nothing more than the player winning. Anyway, I'd appreciate you not bringing BW into this regarding me as I do not in anyway represent BW, nor perticularly the same views as it's manager, infact Jek and I have found eachother at odds a couple of times. I just duely find it troublesome that you would launch an attack on John Galt based only on information you were able to ascertain because he's straightforward enough not to conceal himself as you have plainly done. The attack is as rediculous as it comes because you yourself say you're an active member of the community, posting there as recently as two hours ago. Well, perhaps you are, in which case, I'm sure you'll recognize me, so who exactly are you? I think you're a liar, and I believe you are a shill.

 

[qazwsx]

which players on this thread (at least 1 in every 10,000 lol) have said they played video poker

You are trying to portray intelligence, yet you are completely ignorant to the scam, OR are a misleading participant.

These high wagers in a near 50-50 game were made possible by the simple activation of the spin because of the comp dollars generated. Play enough $100, or any value spins, and there will be paytable scores due to expected hits. Hits = more play time, more play time = a money tree.

500 Red
500 Black
50 Zero

Take your grammar naziism elsewhere. You knew what I meant.

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

What do they owe You ?!

Smarten up Sally.

 

[qazwsx]

Of course there is a possibility you are who you say you are, an affluent member of the BW community, but then why exactly would you be doing what you are doing. My only reason for mentioning that is the train of logic is simple.

I play sanctioned Poker Bonuses that sites condone, and find them there. Also, i find useful strategy there every now and then.

Pretty insidious stuff, huh ?

I am taking the approach I have because of the deception to THIS community by a small number of thugs, smearing a casino making an innocent mistake makes me sick especially when all innocent players were paid, and the sheer gall that some of you have makes me angry.

 

[Vesuvio]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Now there's a quote worthy of Joyland

 

[raol]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Nice way of putting it! How is it "correcting" to delete a requested withdrawal from the log? The proper thing to do if the casino wants to decline it, is to mark it as "declined". Totally unacceptable to remove it from the log.

 

[jetset]

Now there's a quote worthy of Joyland

I agree - one for the classics in online gambling!!!

 

[thelawnet]

It is pointless to respond to your bile, as its convincing nobody. Blah, Blah, the casino clearly stated the comp ratio in the software, but people who played were somehow evil for doing so. yeah whatever. I would suggest that there is no point in responding to any more of this garbage. Lets instead move this on to you, who claim to be interested only in poker, but yet have an intricate knowledge of this situation. You only signed up yesterday, but claim to be concerned about bryan and this forum. You claim that all the innocent players were paid, and you are just here to defend poor joyland. You claim to know what was done to transaction records. You are convincing nobody with this anonymous charade. So come on, forget joy land, let's talk about you.

 

[JohnGalt]

ROFL

The same John Galt that spends 23 hours a day posting at bonuswhores? The same John Galt that may not have been involved, but has a dozen friends that are owed five figures?

Yes, he is uninvolved and unbiased </sarcasm>

I guess all you did is go to BW and check my username to see how many posts I had. Why don't you try READING THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD.

While I don't have any animus towards the posters at BW, they are not my "friends", they are just random people on the internet, none of whom I have ever met. My position as stated has been about as pro-casino as it gets, that I felt this was a mistake that players took advantage of and that their comp points should be recalculated to the right amount. However, there is clear evidence of wrongdoind by Joyland that apparently you just want to sweep under the rug. Good strategy, and good luck.

 

[mary]

Anybody try contacting Antigua on this? Modifying the play or transaction logs is probably a violation of their license.

A note of precedence: Cryptologic paid out millions to players who had won when Crypto got hacked.

As the Gunslinger points out, this was a configuration value entered by an employee, not a software glitch or outside attack. The company should be held liable. To do otherwise is to give them a free pass to screw around with the comp point system to entice deposits and rip off players whenever they feel like it. The fact that they have not proactively contacted their losing players in this situation shows that they're happy to take advantage of it to their benefit.

 

[scrollock]

qazwsx, anychance that you are the now unemployed comps manager for joyland? hence your anger & vendetta in this thread, also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

 

[Aindreas_Daoc]

qazwsx, anychance that you are the now unemployed comps manager for joyland? hence your anger & vendetta in this thread, also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

Now I'm reading this thread purely for entertainment.

 

[TrixSlice]

Top three quotes of this thread

Top three posts:

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.
I am aware of the fact that this should had been traced by us, and it was

This ^ cracks me up. Darn you guys! The ship was going down and no one told the captain! Arg!

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

These ^ are the words of a pyscho.

.. also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

^... so so true. This one just mirrors the crap I talk about how poorly most casino operators.. don't operate.


My transactions weren't altered, probably because I made zero dollars even after the huge amount of comps I earned. Maybe next time, eh QAZWSX?

PS - I just posted this thread and realized it is getting more offtopic then it should be, as CM pointed out.

So is it Empire Poker that bought the whole buliding? Crown, Imperial E-Club, Intercont.? I think someone should give them a call, point this out to them. This is pretty important, as if Joyland continues to lie to thierself, it's going to bring down that whole group. Each and every casino that shares their building even if they are not truly related. That's just how business is: ruthless. But you still gotta pay the customer.

PSS - Also, someone with good standing should also contact Antigua or the legal jurisdiction where Joyland is based. Perhaps we should start compiling any screenshots and saved emails people have in a *case* folder? I've never filed a PAB, so I'm not sure if Bryan accepts screenshots and emails as proof, but it's probably worth compiling.

 

[The Dude]

I have just forwarded the PABs that have come in since yesterday (after I opened the PAB back up) to Playtech and Joyland.

So far a total of 16 complaints have been filed via the Pitch a Bitch section totalling in the neighboorhood of around $111,000 in claimed winnings.

 

[scrollock]

Anybody try contacting Antigua on this? Modifying the play or transaction logs is probably a violation of their license.

A note of precedence: Cryptologic paid out millions to players who had won when Crypto got hacked.

As the Gunslinger points out, this was a configuration value entered by an employee, not a software glitch or outside attack. The company should be held liable. To do otherwise is to give them a free pass to screw around with the comp point system to entice deposits and rip off players whenever they feel like it. The fact that they have not proactively contacted their losing players in this situation shows that they're happy to take advantage of it to their benefit.

as someone said this thread is becoming off-topic, rather than concentrating on the problem at hand.

I would have to disagree with you mary, about that the casino should be held liable because it was an employee that had enterted the value. i have worked in the industry before and know that input errors are very common and if every casino/bookmaker was held liable to them all, then each one would be bankrupted at some point.

however what makes this case different, is that the evidence is clear that a "wrong value " wasnt entered, but a value that was decided by management, which was then entered correctly by the input operator. it was not a case of an input operator being handed a figure to input into the system, who then consequently entered a different figure.

the evidence for this, is that they changed the figure from a 100 to a $, to 150 to a $, if the original figure was input so grossly wrong in the first place, then why the small change in its value, when it was corrected? and even after it was corrected, it was still possible make money by using optimimal play, i find it highly unlikely that a casino would make the same highly expensive mistake twice.

it is quite clear what has happened,a very incompetent promo manager took the decision to set the comps value at 100 to a $, they then seen that were losing money, so then thought "lets change it 150", they were then still losing money, eventually at some point they have managed to call in some body who can count, who has then pointed out what the problem is.

even if the first figure was a mistake, the second figure wasnt, as a decision was taken to change it to that, but as that was so close to the first i can only conclude the first figure was what was intended.

if it was a computer glitch or an input operator typo, then i would have to take the stance of john galt, however as the evidence is contary to this, then i will have to take the opposing view, in that everyone should be paid.

 

[Jay]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Says the casino employee, pretending to be a third party. You seem to know a lot about it.

In my case, I requested a fairly large withdrawal. I got an email confirmation of the withdrawal request, with a transaction number. It was declined without comment by the casino, and the money disappeared. Emails to the casino went unanswered, and they didn't answer their phone. The online transaction logs were changed to remove my large withdrawal altogether, though two smaller withdrawals were "declined" also, but remained there. Of course, I have the EMAILED transaction numbers...

I'm so glad they "corrected" the logs by removing the declined transaction. That was very confusing before they "corrected" them to remove evidence of their actions.

And Playtech's "72 hour response" to my complaint is now 2 days overdue.

Anyway, now I see that Joyland has responded HERE, first with some BS about how everyone is satisfied, and then after that lie didn't stick, with a long explanation (three weeks after the fact) about what happened and why they confiscated all the funds, and now something about how they'll reconsider if people re-complain about it?

They have my email. They have my phone number. If they're so freaking honest and above-board, why weren't any of those explanations emailed to ME? Surely they knew what they were doing right around the time they blocked my cashouts and stole my money.

They post good intentions in public, but make no effort to actually inform their customers personally about why they did what they did. Why should I have to re-submit a complaint? Did they purge my original complaint from the system along with the logs, so that they could make the claim that everyone involved was satisfied? Is there ANYTHING honest about this casino? Is Playtech itself now condoning rogue licensees, who can have second thoughts about their promotions after the fact?

Just asking.