jemmanunn VS Buck & Butler

[ProbabilityZero]

Jemma I wish you luck. You are right in that the original terms were ambiguous and misleading to say the least in my humble opinion.

Further I'm afraid Johnny is talking nonsense as all 10% limits are obviously related to starting deposit amount and NOT balance. Many times I have won with balances dropping low where bets exceeded 10% of balance. Under johnnys interpretation if someone had a bonus of £10 and was playing a 243,way slot and dropped to £3 they would not be able to bet at all when minimum bet is 30p. Utter drivel. You can indeed always bet 10% of bonus received regardless of how much of that bonus is left.

 

[Blathaon]

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum, I have looked around a bit to find somewhere which I think may be useful and could benefit from my information. Seems to be a lot of active users on here so here I am.

Basically I would not invest any money into Buck & Butler casino.. After the experience I have had, it leaves me with no other conclusion apart from the fact they are corrupt.

I'll explain, I signed up to their Casino on Friday 1st August, I deposited 290.00 and got 290.00 bonus. I was very fortunate and had a fantastic win of 8023.00 on a video slot. They asked me for documents from myself, I sent all of this as requested.

Then I received a email stating they were not paying me because I breached 'Term 6' from their 'Casino Bonus terms'

The term up until Wednesday 6th August read as follows :-

In order to maintain fair play, a maximum permitted amount per wager has been set until the playthrough/wagering requirement has been met. The maximum wager is 10% of the bonus amount received. A wager is defined as one turn on the roulette table or slot machine or one dealt hand in a table game or in a video poker game (this includes games with multiple concurrent hands). This rule also applies to the use of the double/gamble function in all games, for example in video poker. This means that a player cannot continue to double a gain such that it exceeds 20% of the bonus amount received. If this rule is breached, the player accepts that the bonus and associated gains will be voided. Exception: players are allowed to places bets up to the max size of € 6 (or equivalent amount in other currencies), regardless of bonus amount received.

Can anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from the bonus I received I should be entitled to place bets up to the size of 29.90 ??

The maximum bet I placed at one time was 27.50. They have confirmed over email that I did not in fact break the 10% rule, but the 6 euro rule.. How is this rule ever apparrant to myself with that term?

After going back and forth for a week, they in fact changed their terms on Thursday morning 7th August. They changed them too :-

The maximum allowed bet amount with the signup bonus, until wagering requirements are met is 10% of total balance or 6 euro per spin/bet, whichever is highest.

They then changed their terms again that day to what they are now.

They have confirmed I did not bet more than 10% of the bonus I received but that I did in fact break the 6 euro rule.

Can I please have peoples feedback on this, and what you think I should do going forward? is their any way I can get my money from this casino, they have clearly stole it.

I attach all images to back up my claim.

I appreciate everyone reading and any responses are extremely welcome.

Jemma

The way i would interpret the rules as they were presented to you on the 6th is that you can bet 10% of bonus, and the exception is simply there so that if you are on a small bonus you can bet 6€ even if 10% of the bonus is less than 6€.

So IMO you didn't break the max bet rule.

I couldn't find any rep from Buck&Butler here at CM but as Jasminebed suggested you can try contacting Rainmaker and see if he can help.

If he is unable to help you then i think it's time to Link Outdated / Removed.
Make sure to read the PAB FAQ before submitting a complaint. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

 

[mathsboy1975]

You are a mum in your late 20s and you never signed up here before, (you say "I have looked around a bit to find somewhere which I think may be useful")

Yet you screenshot terms and conditions and are playing huge bets at a casino that ive never seen advertised in the UK?

I am not sure what you are getting at with this. I had managed to lose thousands on slots before I found the casinomeister site, and I am sure that there are many many more high rollers out there playing casinos that have never heard of casinomeister. The likelihood is that the OP found this site BECAUSE she is having issue with payouts and signed up to get some advice.

As for age and motherhood - what on earth does that have to do with anything??

 

[SpinUk]

This one's not rocket science. The casino is indeed trying to snide your winnings from you.

Under their interpretation they could simply have stated in the original terms "maximum bet size 6 euros, regardless of bonus".

Which they didn't.

Then had the cheek to try to retrospectively change their terms after the horse has bolted. Well, they wouldn't be the first I guess.

Lets see if they pay.

:

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum, I have looked around a bit to find somewhere which I think may be useful and could benefit from my information. Seems to be a lot of active users on here so here I am.

Basically I would not invest any money into Buck & Butler casino.. After the experience I have had, it leaves me with no other conclusion apart from the fact they are corrupt.

I'll explain, I signed up to their Casino on Friday 1st August, I deposited 290.00 and got 290.00 bonus. I was very fortunate and had a fantastic win of 8023.00 on a video slot. They asked me for documents from myself, I sent all of this as requested.

Then I received a email stating they were not paying me because I breached 'Term 6' from their 'Casino Bonus terms'

The term up until Wednesday 6th August read as follows :-

In order to maintain fair play, a maximum permitted amount per wager has been set until the playthrough/wagering requirement has been met. The maximum wager is 10% of the bonus amount received. A wager is defined as one turn on the roulette table or slot machine or one dealt hand in a table game or in a video poker game (this includes games with multiple concurrent hands). This rule also applies to the use of the double/gamble function in all games, for example in video poker. This means that a player cannot continue to double a gain such that it exceeds 20% of the bonus amount received. If this rule is breached, the player accepts that the bonus and associated gains will be voided. Exception: players are allowed to places bets up to the max size of € 6 (or equivalent amount in other currencies), regardless of bonus amount received.

Can anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from the bonus I received I should be entitled to place bets up to the size of 29.90 ??

The maximum bet I placed at one time was 27.50. They have confirmed over email that I did not in fact break the 10% rule, but the 6 euro rule.. How is this rule ever apparrant to myself with that term?

After going back and forth for a week, they in fact changed their terms on Thursday morning 7th August. They changed them too :-

The maximum allowed bet amount with the signup bonus, until wagering requirements are met is 10% of total balance or 6 euro per spin/bet, whichever is highest.

They then changed their terms again that day to what they are now.

They have confirmed I did not bet more than 10% of the bonus I received but that I did in fact break the 6 euro rule.

Can I please have peoples feedback on this, and what you think I should do going forward? is their any way I can get my money from this casino, they have clearly stole it.

I attach all images to back up my claim.

I appreciate everyone reading and any responses are extremely welcome.

Jemma

 

[chayton]

Exception: players are allowed to places bets up to the max size of € 6 (or equivalent amount in other currencies), regardless of bonus amount received.

I think that this is a badly written term that means the opposite of what it actually looks like. I think what they were trying to with the 'regardless of bonus amount received' is that no matter how big your bonus is, you can only bet up to the max bet size of €6.

So max bet is 10% of the bonus - if you get a €20 bonus, your max bet size is €2. If you got a €60 bonus, your max bet size is €6. And the 'exception' is that if you got a €100 or €200 or €300 bonus, your max bet size is still €6.

If that's the case, then the term is so convoluted that there's no way for the player to make sense of it. And if the casino has since changed the term several times to clarify it, then they know how senseless it was.

The only thing that I would think that would lose a PAB for this player is if the casino had been hit with a group of players all taking advantage of this poorly written (or maybe badly translated?) rule at the same time.

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

Incorrect statement.

I think that this is a badly written term that means the opposite of what it actually looks like. I think what they were trying to with the 'regardless of bonus amount received' is that no matter how big your bonus is, you can only bet up to the max bet size of €6.

So max bet is 10% of the bonus - if you get a €20 bonus, your max bet size is €2. If you got a €60 bonus, your max bet size is €6. And the 'exception' is that if you got a €100 or €200 or €300 bonus, your max bet size is still €6.

If that's the case, then the term is so convoluted that there's no way for the player to make sense of it. And if the casino has since changed the term several times to clarify it, then they know how senseless it was.

The only thing that I would think that would lose a PAB for this player is if the casino had been hit with a group of players all taking advantage of this poorly written (or maybe badly translated?) rule at the same time.

The terms are clear. 10% max wager to any bonus. That is clear.

Then, an EXCEPTION is added. An EXCEPTION is an amendement to the terms. An addition. Which they have the right to do as per their terms.

It clearly states, 6 dollars max.

Jemma violated the terms. It's a clear violation. And to be honest, I support BUCK's decision.

Even posting a PAB will solve nothing.

The terms were clear. Violation of terms is a forfeiture of all winnings.

I tell u Jemma. Talk to the VIP host, wagering 30 bucks a spin is high rolling. They will treat you with respect. Make a fair deal. Tell them u love their place and it will be a place that u will frequent.

They can make an exception. Many casinos do.

Going in there and starting trouble will get u nothing.

I know what I'm saying. Sometimes it's better to be reasonable instead of hot headed.

There are ways.

-tell them I are going to refer friends
-leave 3k inside and play it.
-tell them u will post about your win at forums
-make yourself sound like a high high roller

Work them a bit. You will be surprised!

U have nothing to lose.

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

A single mum playing 30 bucks a spin?????

You are a mum in your late 20s and you never signed up here before, (you say "I have looked around a bit to find somewhere which I think may be useful")

Yet you screenshot terms and conditions and are playing huge bets at a casino that ive never seen advertised in the UK?

I am curious as to how you came to gamble like this.

Also, this is in the wrong forum and if everything is genuine as you say I highly recommend you PAB.

Wow. I thought I was crazy!

30 bucks a spin as a single mum?????

Wow.

As a high roller myself I have limits. Kids first. Maybe she should put some limits down and concentrate on that more than anything.

In my country, 30 bucks can buy 12 litres of milk for the kids. It's a lot of money.

I hope she gets something from all this. Single mum gambling 30 bucks a spin. I can only imagine the money lost over the years. Good luck Jem

 

[MillyOfLeValley]

The attacks on Jem for being a single mom are uncalled for, tasteless & tacky.

Her single mom status has no relevance to the reason why she posted here.

So if she had stated I am a happily married mother of 2 then you'd be fine with her betting 30 bucks a spin?

Wow. I thought I was crazy!

30 bucks a spin as a single mum?????

Wow.

As a high roller myself I have limits. Kids first. Maybe she should put some limits down and concentrate on that more than anything.

In my country, 30 bucks can buy 12 litres of milk for the kids. It's a lot of money.

I hope she gets something from all this. Single mum gambling 30 bucks a spin. I can only imagine the money lost over the years. Good luck Jem

 

[mimi26]

Wow. I thought I was crazy!

30 bucks a spin as a single mum?????

Wow.

As a high roller myself I have limits. Kids first. Maybe she should put some limits down and concentrate on that more than anything.

In my country, 30 bucks can buy 12 litres of milk for the kids. It's a lot of money.

I hope she gets something from all this. Single mum gambling 30 bucks a spin. I can only imagine the money lost over the years. Good luck Jem

eh?, so if you are a single mum you are incapable of having a good career, a huge bank account, (a sugar dadddy ), just because this lady is single and has a child does not mean 1, that she cant afford 30 bucks a spin and 2, she is neglecting her child in anyway.

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

No one knows her situation......

eh?, so if you are a single mum you are incapable of having a good career, a huge bank account, (a sugar dadddy ), just because this lady is single and has a child does not mean 1, that she cant afford 30 bucks a spin and 2, she is neglecting her child in anyway.

Single moms have the right to do what they want.

I didn't even know until I read someone else saying it.

Now a days, single moms all over the world are working 2 jobs to make ends meet.

If she can afford 30 bucks a spin then good for her. Many can not even afford to pay their rent.


I personally think a single mom is a scared thing. Raising a child on your own in this crazy world is an accomplishment on its own. Maybe she is a millionaire, who knows. I just wish that the 30 bucks per spin is not hurting her children.

We all know what gambling can do to a family. We all know the dangers.

I really hope she is being smart about all this. I never compromised my family with gambling and I am sick as y'all know. There is a point where common sense must prevail.

Hopefully she gets some money I doubt she is a millionaire. I hope she gets it all. Single mom is a sacred thing and that money can really go a long way.

 

[spoton]

What!!!? It clearly states that the 6 Euro limit is an exception for players whose bonus is lower than 60. If everything you are saying are correct, you should try get hold of a manager incase the support reps on the floor aren't good on percentage calculation, and file a PAB if that doesen't work.

I played B&Bs welcome bonus and won 300-400 Euros. That went smoothly. But ofcourse the sum you won is quite a bit more.

Good luck

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

Lawyers......

What!!!? It clearly states that the 6 Euro limit is an exception for players whose bonus is lower than 60. If everything you are saying are correct, you should try get hold of a manager incase the support reps on the floor aren't good on percentage calculation, and file a PAB if that doesen't work.

I played B&Bs welcome bonus and won 300-400 Euros. That went smoothly. But ofcourse the sum you won is quite a bit more.

Good luck

The casino lawyers are paid 2k and hour to write these terms. They word it in a way that makes it easy for them to clearly make one misinterpret what it really means.

The word Exception is a modification to the actual terms. A modification.

These hot shot lawyers are not stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Jemma is a victim of her own misunderstanding of a 2k an hour lawyers words.

 

[Jasminebed]

Even posting a PAB will solve nothing.

Did I miss the post that announced Johnny is now a mod at this forum?

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

A mod?

Did I miss the post that announced Johnny is now a mod at this forum?

If I was a mod here i would ban myself!

 

[spoton]

Wow. I thought I was crazy!

30 bucks a spin as a single mum?????

Wow.

As a high roller myself I have limits. Kids first. Maybe she should put some limits down and concentrate on that more than anything.

In my country, 30 bucks can buy 12 litres of milk for the kids. It's a lot of money.

I hope she gets something from all this. Single mum gambling 30 bucks a spin. I can only imagine the money lost over the years. Good luck Jem

Go ask your local grocery store if they will accept money that is tied down with wagering requirements at some online casino next time you buy milk. I highly doubt so.

 

[refre]

I definitely feel you should be paid.
Perhaps €6 was meant to be the absolute max bet?
Doesn't really matter though when terms say otherwise.

Never a good sign when terms have to be changed to fit the argument.

As they stood I would not have thought of seeking clarification.

 

[mathsboy1975]

The terms are clear. 10% max wager to any bonus. That is clear.

Then, an EXCEPTION is added. An EXCEPTION is an amendement to the terms. An addition. Which they have the right to do as per their terms.

It clearly states, 6 dollars max.

Jemma violated the terms. It's a clear violation. And to be honest, I support BUCK's decision.

Even posting a PAB will solve nothing.

The terms were clear. Violation of terms is a forfeiture of all winnings.

I think you made your point in this regard with your first 5 posts on the matter. What do you hope to achieve by simply repeating the statement. And who are you to say that posting a PAB will solve nothing.

Your dismissive attitude towards anything that differs from your own opinion is irritating to say the least.

 

[mathsboy1975]

If I was a mod here i would ban myself!

fingers crossed.....

 

[catapultaudio]

The terms are clear. 10% max wager to any bonus. That is clear. Then, an EXCEPTION is added. An EXCEPTION is an amendement to the terms. An addition. Which they have the right to do as per their terms.

It clearly states, 6 dollars max. Jemma violated the terms. It's a clear violation. And to be honest, I support BUCK's decision. Even posting a PAB will solve nothing. The terms were clear. Violation of terms is a forfeiture of all winnings.

I tell u Jemma. Talk to the VIP host, wagering 30 bucks a spin is high rolling. They will treat you with respect. Make a fair deal. Tell them u love their place and it will be a place that u will frequent.

They can make an exception. Many casinos do. Going in there and starting trouble will get u nothing. I know what I'm saying. Sometimes it's better to be reasonable instead of hot headed.

-tell them I are going to refer friends
-leave 3k inside and play it.
-tell them u will post about your win at forums
-make yourself sound like a high high roller

Work them a bit. You will be surprised!

U have nothing to lose.

No Johnny, the terms are not clear. Your the only person so far who has failed to spot the obvious mistake in the wording of the terms which is the basis of Jems argument. You also do not appear to have grasped the fact that their decision to update these terms immediately after this dispute over 8000 actually proves they also realised the terms WERE NOT CLEAR. So you might agree with Buck, but they obviously do not agree with you!

They are acting like a rogue here in my view, if everything stated is correct - its an obvious attempt to avoid paying out this sizable win.There is definitely a case here, so a PAB has every chance of success.

As for your 12 line guide to blagging the casino into paying you, wow, Go Wild really bought that load of garbage? "I promise to play here lots if you give me my money" doesn't strike me as a winning argument but perhaps you used a million times more tact than you do here on the forum?

Johnny, doesn't the fact NOBODY has agreed with you tell you anything? Go back to the start of the thread, read it again, try and understand this is not a straightforward breach of terms. It would be really great to see you start to acknowledge other peoples posts, and actually learn something... I know it's about a million to one shot but hell I have to try.

 

[Derrick Sanders]

free chips

I wish all bonuses were scam free

the scamiest bonuses are the 1000$ free for 1 hour... you will never finish to wager them in an hour no matter what...

--Derrick

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

Wow

No Johnny, the terms are not clear. Your the only person so far who has failed to spot the obvious mistake in the wording of the terms which is the basis of Jems argument. You also do not appear to have grasped the fact that their decision to update these terms immediately after this dispute over 8000 actually proves they also realised the terms WERE NOT CLEAR. So you might agree with Buck, but they obviously do not agree with you!

They are acting like a rogue here in my view, if everything stated is correct - its an obvious attempt to avoid paying out this sizable win.There is definitely a case here, so a PAB has every chance of success.

As for your 12 line guide to blagging the casino into paying you, wow, Go Wild really bought that load of garbage? "I promise to play here lots if you give me my money" doesn't strike me as a winning argument but perhaps you used a million times more tact than you do here on the forum?

Johnny, doesn't the fact NOBODY has agreed with you tell you anything? Go back to the start of the thread, read it again, try and understand this is not a straightforward breach of terms. It would be really great to see you start to acknowledge other peoples posts, and actually learn something... I know it's about a million to one shot but hell I have to try.

Rogue??? Are u kidding me???? OMG.

U just called B and B a rogue casino???? Wow

 

[maxd]

Go read the Pitch-a-Bitch FAQs in the meantime. I suggest you don't post further in case you do need to use the PAB service.

Good advice! As it happens the OP filed a PAB at 03:52 this morning, and then proceeded to post freely which, of course, is a violation of the PAB guidelines in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

@ jemmanunn : I'll assume that your Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ violations are due to you having only recently joined us. Fair enough, an honest n00b mistake, but I must now insist that you read the FAQ and send confirmation to me at

that you have read, understood and will comply with the FAQ.

Once I receive that confirmation I will proceed with your PAB. Until I receive that confirmation your PAB is on hold.

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

PAB boss....

Good advice! As it happens the OP filed a PAB at 03:52 this morning, and then proceeded to post freely which, of course, is a violation of the PAB guidelines in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

@ jemmanunn : I'll assume that your Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ violations are due to you having only recently joined us. Fair enough, an honest n00b mistake, but I must now insist that you read the FAQ and send confirmation to me at

that you have read, understood and will comply with the FAQ.

Once I receive that confirmation I will proceed with your PAB. Until I receive that confirmation your PAB is on hold.

I am sure it was a rookie mistake. Her violation of CM PAB policy was not done purposely.

I hope PAB can help her get something.

Later.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Good advice! As it happens the OP filed a PAB at 03:52 this morning, and then proceeded to post freely which, of course, is a violation of the PAB guidelines in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

@ jemmanunn : I'll assume that your Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ violations are due to you having only recently joined us. Fair enough, an honest n00b mistake, but I must now insist that you read the FAQ and send confirmation to me at

that you have read, understood and will comply with the FAQ.

Once I receive that confirmation I will proceed with your PAB. Until I receive that confirmation your PAB is on hold.

Hi Max you are incorrect in this statement. OP has not posted since she submitted the PAB. Last post from her was 3.23AM and you state she submitted 03:52AM

 

[Johnnygotthebon]

Maybe this will help you Jem.....

3. CHANGES TO THE TERMS OF USE

3.1. We may need to change the Terms for a number of reasons, including for commercial reasons, to comply with new laws or regulations or for customer service reasons. The most up-to-date Terms of Use can be accessed here, and the date on which they came into force is noted.
3.2. Where we make changes to the Terms of Use which we wish to notify you of, we will do so by email or by placing a notice on the Website, the player must re-confirm acceptance before the changes come into effect and he is able to place bets on our website.



Clause 3.2 of their general terms..... Did U accept the change?



If not..... They will hide behind this!


27.1. If any of the Terms are determined to be invalid, unlawful or unenforceable to any extent, such term, condition or provision will to that extent be severed from the remaining terms, conditions and provisions which will continue to be valid to the fullest extent permitted by law. In such cases, the part deemed invalid or unenforceable shall be amended in a manner consistent with the applicable law to reflect, as closely as possible, our original intent.