Bogus Complaint INETBET Don't pay

[maxd]

My PAB has been decided and it looks like I lost but I would like to explain. My issue was deemed, "Not a PAB issue" and "Not a breach of the Terms of Accreditation".

If you are going to make a public statement about what went on with your PAB you might be a little less "economical with the truth" yourself. What I told you during the PAB was that since the purpose of your complaint was to have the details related to an Accred casino reevaluated you should have gone to the forum section specifically designed for that type of thing, namely Accredited Casinos Updates which is clearly designated as "the forum where members can post any discrepancies they notice in the Accredited Casino section".

Sometime later, at the conclusion of your PAB, I told you that I saw no breach of the Terms of Accreditation which is what you had been claiming all along.

... in the process of the PAB Inetbet were being economical with the truth to Max in telling him that the terms in the cashier window accurately reflected the terms of the promo. I have to assume Max was not able to view that page himself ....

Untrue and misleading. In fact the casino was fully forthcoming regarding the cashier window in that they provided full screenshots of the page(s) in question. As it happens I don't entirely agree with them that the text that appears there is as clear as it could be but then that's not really their fault either. That text is written and under the control of RTG, not the casino. The casino could not change it if they wanted to, that would have to be done by RTG. What the casino did do was to make the situation crystal clear in the Terms and as you very well know the Terms are where players should be looking for the final word on such things.

I have to say that your assumptions about the casino's handling of the issue aren't much more than mean-spirited slander and defamation. What's the point of that?

In terms of misrepresenting things you are probably the party at fault here. To begin with you were not forthcoming about the fact that your issue at the casino was almost a year old. You said nothing about the fact that you've been an active player there throughout that period and yet had nothing to say on this subject. During the PAB process you said and/or implied several times that the casino staff were being misleading and deceptive in their handling of this issue. AFAIC there is no evidence of this whatsoever. Frankly the way you've conducted yourself in this strongly implies that you've had an ulterior motive all along though I wouldn't care to speculate on what that might be.

The bottom line is that (a) you are barking up the wrong tree: the wording in question is an RTG issue and specifically not an iNetBet issue, and (b) this was never really a PAB issue to begin with yet you've managed to burn up a considerable amount of my time in digging into this on your behalf. THEN you dump this on the forums and imply that something was amiss in the way your PAB was handled. WTF dude! If your purpose was to have that text in the cashier's window looked at you've certainly made a mess of it because you've managed to piss off pretty much everyone who could or would have helped you accomplish that.

 

[chayton]

Max, is the OP's PAB ongoing or was it settled?

 

[maxd]

Max, is the OP's PAB ongoing or was it settled?

Submitted on the 11th, closed on the 25th. Based on evidence from the casino the OP had not followed the deposit sequence stated in the Terms of the bonus. In other words they violated the Terms and that's why the win was invalid. The OP later admitted that they never read the Terms to begin with.

 

[bigjohn]

If you are going to make a public statement about what went on with your PAB you might be a little less "economical with the truth" yourself. What I told you during the PAB was that since the purpose of your complaint was to have the details related to an Accred casino reevaluated you should have gone to the forum section specifically designed for that type of thing, namely Accredited Casinos Updates which is clearly designated as "the forum where members can post any discrepancies they notice in the Accredited Casino section".

Sometime later, at the conclusion of your PAB, I told you that I saw no breach of the Terms of Accreditation which is what you had been claiming all along.



Untrue and misleading. In fact the casino was fully forthcoming regarding the cashier window in that they provided full screenshots of the page(s) in question. As it happens I don't entirely agree with them that the text that appears there is as clear as it could be but then that's not really their fault either. That text is written and under the control of RTG, not the casino. The casino could not change it if they wanted to, that would have to be done by RTG. What the casino did do was to make the situation crystal clear in the Terms and as you very well know the Terms are where players should be looking for the final word on such things.

I have to say that your assumptions about the casino's handling of the issue aren't much more than mean-spirited slander and defamation. What's the point of that?

In terms of misrepresenting things you are probably the party at fault here. To begin with you were not forthcoming about the fact that your issue at the casino was almost a year old. You said nothing about the fact that you've been an active player there throughout that period and yet had nothing to say on this subject. During the PAB process you said and/or implied several times that the casino staff were being misleading and deceptive in their handling of this issue. AFAIC there is no evidence of this whatsoever. Frankly the way you've conducted yourself in this strongly implies that you've had an ulterior motive all along though I wouldn't care to speculate on what that might be.

The bottom line is that (a) you are barking up the wrong tree: the wording in question is an RTG issue and specifically not an iNetBet issue, and (b) this was never really a PAB issue to begin with yet you've managed to burn up a considerable amount of my time in digging into this on your behalf. THEN you dump this on the forums and imply that something was amiss in the way your PAB was handled. WTF dude! If your purpose was to have that text in the cashier's window looked at you've certainly made a mess of it because you've managed to piss off pretty much everyone who could or would have helped you accomplish that.

Okay, let me try to go through this point by point.

In the first paragraph you said, "What I told you during the PAB was that since the purpose of your complaint was to have the details related to an Accred casino reevaluated you should have gone to the forum section specifically designed for that type of thing, namely Accredited Casinos Updates which is clearly designated as "the forum where members can post any discrepancies they notice in the Accredited Casino section"." I just looked at all the e-mails I got from you and you never said this.

I did not put it in the Accredited Casinos Updates section because to me it did not seem like an update of any kind. I at first raised the issue with the casino.

As far as the terms in the cashier window being under control of RTG, even though they are wrong Inetbet decided to use them anyway and leave it there. Are you saying there is no way that can be modified? And as I stated I feel the cashier window is the 'Final Word' on the terms, that's the way I feel as it always has been correct in every single RTG casino I have ever played at. That's the way i feel, if I am wrong does that make me some kind of an asshole? I would like to see any other example of the terms in the cashier window not matching the actual terms in any other RTG casino.

How is pointing out a discrepancy 'mean-spirited slander and defamation'? The point was to have it looked at by you in an official manner. and I supported it with freshly acquired, current screenshots.

The issue I PAB'ed about is not a year old, the terms I was questioning are still there, and I have not been an active player there throughout. Did they tell you the date of my most recent deposit there? If any deposits were made at Inetbet into my account there after I fell afoul of this term I sure would like to know about it because I didn't make them. And I would also be interested to see where I implied their staff were being misleading or deceptive concerning this issue. Their staff never contacted me after I e-mailed them. And there is no need to speculate on my motive, I will spell it out here and now, they got me once with this term discrepancy, I brought it to their attention and a year later they have not fixed it. That's my whole motive.

I also don't see how me filing a PAB is wasting your time, I thought you were the PAB guy. If you find my complaint has no merit, that's fine. I work on swimming pools, if a customer calls us to service their filter and there is no problem with it I don't go off like the customer is some kind of jerk-off for making me come out to look at it, that is my job.

So, basically, you are saying I pissed off everyone in the world of on-line gaming with my bogus complaint and that the terms I questioned are no problem. Okay, fine, I thanked you for looking into it before and I'll do it again, thank you for looking into my issue.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The root cause of the problem is that RTG pulled SO many of their "Classic slots" some while ago that there are only a very small number remaining. Since then, releases have been for the Real Series range. The "Classic Slots" coupon is therefore VERY restrictive indeed, probably about a dozen games are allowed.

The Real Series coupon is far better as there are dozens of eligible slots. This is the coupon that should be used, the "Classic" coupon should be ignored.

 

[maxd]

Okay, let me try to go through this point by point.

Allow me to do likewise.

In the first paragraph you said ... I just looked at all the e-mails I got from you and you never said this.

Please refresh your memory by looking at the email sent 28/07/14 13:54 wherein I say the following:

In your last message you stated "I merely want to see them comply with the terms laid out in the Casinomeister Terms of Accreditation." I'd say that's not really a PAB issue. As I'm sure you know we have a section of the forums to handle such things.

As far as the terms in the cashier window being under control of RTG, even though they are wrong Inetbet decided to use them anyway and leave it there.

As I have said at least three times now, it is my understanding that the text that appears in the cashier's window is determined and controlled by RTG. You keep trying to blame iNetBet, I keep telling you you're barking up the wrong tree. Can the text be modified? Yes, undoubtedly it can, but not by iNetBet, afaik.

That the way i feel, if I am wrong does that make me some kind of an asshole?

Possibly yes, it depends how you conduct yourself while expressing those "feelings" to others. As I've said, you've had a pretty crap attitude toward the casino throughout this so yeah, maybe you have been an a-hole about it. Don't kill yourself over it though, it can happen to the best of us.

How is pointing out a discrepancy 'mean-spirited slander and defamation'?

Quoting me out of context and intentionally misrepresenting what I said is not going to win you any Brownie points. What I had was:

.. your assumptions about the casino's handling of the issue aren't much more than mean-spirited slander and defamation.

Those assumptions were "in the process of the PAB Inetbet were being economical with the truth to Max" as well as several references throughout out discussions that the casino was trying to cheat and deceive. In none of those cases do you know what their intentions were, what their reasons may or may not have been, or what the content of my discussions with them actually was. You've implied and directly stated more than once that they have lied to me and/or you over the course of this process and, as previously stated, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. You're pulling that stuff out of your ass because it suits you to do so and yes, that would qualify as asshole behaviour.

I would also be interested to see where I implied their staff were being misleading or deceptive concerning this issue.

Until such time as I can be arsed to sift through our email exchanges for all such references see the above.

I also don't see how me filing a PAB is wasting your time, I thought you were the PAB guy.

Again you misquote to serve your needs. What I said was:

.. this was never really a PAB issue to begin with yet you've managed to burn up a considerable amount of my time in digging into this on your behalf.

When I realised that this issue should have been handled elsewhere -- namely the Accred forum as previously mentioned -- I decided that I would respect your standing and position here as a Casinomeister member, make an exception for you, and look into it personally. That has since proven to have been a mistake.

So, basically, you are saying I pissed off everyone in the world of on-line gaming with my bogus complaint and that the terms I questioned are no problem.

Again, you misquote to serve yourself. I don't believe I've ever once said this was a "bogus" complaint. Looking back I see that I explained my perspecitve on the case in at least three different emails, all respectful and none even remotely implying that your case was bogus. In fact I have twice said that I did see some merit in your basic issue with the text in the Cashier's window.

I suggest you go back and read what I ACTUALLY wrote, namely:

If your purpose was to have that text in the cashier's window looked at you've certainly made a mess of it because you've managed to piss off pretty much everyone who could or would have helped you accomplish that.

If you choose to interpret that to mean I rejected your issue as "bogus" then (a) you are seriously missing the point and (b) you are never likely to actually get the point because you're too busy being -- in your words -- an asshole about it.

The bottom line is this:
- no one is responsible for your "feelings" but you, they don't justify a damn thing and you're being irresponsible in suggesting they do.
- if your purpose in all of this was truly to have the text in the cashier's window looked at -- I'm still not sure I believe that -- then that should have been your focus, not throwing muck at the the casino (the assumptions about their untruthfulness, etc) and not being a dick about your PAB.

Your original issue does appear to have had a measure of merit to it, the way you've approached this (as described above and elsewhere) has turned that into an unproductive shit-storm.

 

[bigjohn]

Allow me to do likewise.



Please refresh your memory by looking at the email sent 28/07/14 13:54 wherein I say the following:





As I have said at least three times now, it is my understanding that the text that appears in the cashier's window is determined and controlled by RTG. You keep trying to blame iNetBet, I keep telling you you're barking up the wrong tree. Can the text be modified? Yes, undoubtedly it can, but not by iNetBet, afaik.



Possibly yes, it depends how you conduct yourself while expressing those "feelings" to others. As I've said, you've had a pretty crap attitude toward the casino throughout this so yeah, maybe you have been an a-hole about it. Don't kill yourself over it though, it can happen to the best of us.



Quoting me out of context and intentionally misrepresenting what I said is not going to win you any Brownie points. What I had was:


Those assumptions were "in the process of the PAB Inetbet were being economical with the truth to Max" as well as several references throughout out discussions that the casino was trying to cheat and deceive. In none of those cases do you know what their intentions were, what their reasons may or may not have been, or what the content of my discussions with them actually was. You've implied and directly stated more than once that they have lied to me and/or you over the course of this process and, as previously stated, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. You're pulling that stuff out of your ass because it suits you to do so and yes, that would qualify as asshole behaviour.



Until such time as I can be arsed to sift through our email exchanges for all such references see the above.



Again you misquote to serve your needs. What I said was:


When I realised that this issue should have been handled elsewhere -- namely the Accred forum as previously mentioned -- I decided that I would respect your standing and position here as a Casinomeister member, make an exception for you, and look into it personally. That has since proven to have been a mistake.



Again, you misquote to serve yourself. I don't believe I've ever once said this was a "bogus" complaint. Looking back I see that I explained my perspecitve on the case in at least three different emails, all respectful and none even remotely implying that your case was bogus. In fact I have twice said that I did see some merit in your basic issue with the text in the Cashier's window.

I suggest you go back and read what I ACTUALLY wrote, namely:


If you choose to interpret that to mean I rejected your issue as "bogus" then (a) you are seriously missing the point and (b) you are never likely to actually get the point because you're too busy being -- in your words -- an asshole about it.

The bottom line is this:
- no one is responsible for your "feelings" but you, they don't justify a damn thing and you're being irresponsible in suggesting they do.
- if your purpose in all of this was truly to have the text in the cashier's window looked at -- I'm still not sure I believe that -- then that should have been your focus, not throwing muck at the the casino (the assumptions about their untruthfulness, etc) and not being a dick about your PAB.

Your original issue does appear to have had a measure of merit to it, the way you've approached this (as described above and elsewhere) has turned that into an unproductive shit-storm.

I really don't know where all your animosity towards me is coming from but so be it.

I thought I conducted myself in a professional manner throughout this process. If you don't think so that is your opinion and that trumps mine in this forum.

 

[maxd]

I really don't know where all your animosity towards me is coming from ....

Try reading my responses to you, here and in the emails. If you are looking for answers they're there. If you're not seeing them then I respectfully suggest that is telling you something worth listening to.

As to who trumps who I think you'd be best leaving the trump cards to Bryan because he is the MC here, not me.

 

[Mosse]

In generally I think that all this RTG-bonusterms- mess is nothing but a (__x__) on players face! In my opinion they dont play fair and also i think they know it!!!

There is also these other threads, for example Jackpot Capital- case. And also I lost a big amount early this year on winpalace cause my winnings was confiscated(also a thread about that). etc. Thats just happening too often...

I think no-one should put a single penny on these sites before they make their bonuses more simple and terms for them much more easier to understand!!! If you compare rtg- bonusterms for mg or netent-site- terms, you cant even talk about those on the same day.

So lets just stop depositing on these sites, maybe then they have to react someway and we wont see this kind of cases anymore.

 

[LuckyDalia26]

And also I lost a big amount early this year on winpalace cause my winnings was confiscated(also a thread about that). etc. Thats just happening too often...

Agreed, I have received 9 emails to date from people that were denied their winnings when they went to make a withdrawal from the NETAD management Win Palace group of casinos. A recent email just the other day from someone in the UK who is going to be posting about his Begado casino experience on this forum (Begado being another casino in the NETAD management Win Palace casino group.)

Winpalace Group
Begado Casino
Casino Titan
Golden Cherry
Jackpot Grand
Slots of Fortune
Slots Jungle
Winpalace Casino

9 emails to date from others that were denied their winnings when they went to make a withdrawal just this year since I started my own thread about Win Palace Casino taking advantage of me; they kept my deposit and winnings and only after meeting the wagering requirements of at least 10 hours of slot machine play and me trying to make a withdrawal to my neteller account did they instantly decide to keep my winnings and deposit and too date NEVER given me a reason of why. I never broke any of their T & Cs and they know it that is why they have no reason to give and they will never return any of my emails; live-chat will not give me a reason other than that management decided to close my account but that someone would be contacting me by email and to remain patient. Sadly it has been months and months and too date nobody has gotten back to me. The NETAD management Win Palace group of casinos is dishonest and takes advantage of people.

I think no-one should put a single penny on these sites.

Absolutely and INETBET is in error if you ask me as BonusKeeper should not have been able to continue making deposits under LINK5 if he already breached the terms of the promotion by depositing more than twice the amount of his original LINK1 deposit.

The moment BonusKeeper deposited 80 Euros to claim one of the LINK5 when it should have been no more than 40 Euros according to the promotion - BonusKeeper should not have been able to deposit again after that since all winnings would instantly be void and it is unfair that the system even allowed him to continue depositing using Link5 from that point on.

The Casino System should have blocked any future deposits using LINK5 once the terms of the promotion were broken or a casino representative should have contacted him right away about it so he is aware that all winnings from that point on are void on any deposits made using Link5 from that point on. That is an error of INETBET if you ask me and clearly unfair that he was even allowed to continue making deposits.

I will not be playing on INETBET and suggest others do not as well. I am disappointed in how they handled this situation with BonusKeeper. I know what it is like emailing and emailing about a withdrawal made that did not go through and the casino not replying to emails about it. It is extremely frustrating and at the very least INETBET should have been more professional about how they handled themselves and at bear minimum given BonusKeeper the common courtesy of replying to his emails. This just goes to show what kind of customer service and support they have, a red flag on any casino when they handle a situation in this manner.

 

[LuckyDalia26]

The root cause of the problem is that RTG pulled SO many of their "Classic slots" some while ago that there are only a very small number remaining The "Classic Slots" coupon is therefore VERY restrictive indeed, probably about a dozen games are allowed.

I can more than understand where BigJohn is coming from; depositing on any casino as the player under whatever promotion we want to know what the terms and conditions are in clear and definitive writing. Under the INETBET RTG screenshot BigJohn added it is unclear.

In a typical RTG casino you can click that and it will tell you which specific ones are excluded, there is no option for that here.

If other RTG casinos have links that can be clicked within the RTG software then this suggests that INETBET could further add something that gives specifics on the deposit screen under the promotion that details what slot machines can and cannot be played under the promotion.

With phone or live chat support I could have easily clarified the term but there is no option for that either.

INETBET at the very least should have a way that depositing players can contact them if they have a question other than having to wait ages for a reply via email. It sounds like INETBET takes forever to reply to an email and in some cases as shown in this thread do not reply at all. What kind of customer service is that and why would anyone want to play at INETBET if they make it so difficult to even understand their promotions in the first place.

 

[chayton]

Max, did the casino refund the OPs deposits after breaking the term?

 

[Tirilej]

Max, did the casino refund the OPs deposits after breaking the term?

My name is not Max, but yes they did.

 

[Googobucs]

Wow, all these years Ive been playing RTG and before today I never heard of real series vs classic slots. I just checked the T & C at CW; the only RTG I would ever play at, and it simply says slots.
Not that I am going to ever play here, but do they have different games from CW that are called classic slots that Ive never seen?

 

[maxd]

Max, did the casino refund the OPs deposits after breaking the term?

That's what I've heard, haven't had a chance to confirm that with the casino peeps

 

[chuchu59]

Wow, all these years Ive been playing RTG and before today I never heard of real series vs classic slots. I just checked the T & C at CW; the only RTG I would ever play at, and it simply says slots.
Not that I am going to ever play here, but do they have different games from CW that are called classic slots that Ive never seen?

Classic slots were the norm at RTG a decade or so ago but then RTG introduced real-series slots and added spice to them with random jackpots. I really doubt whether people like to play classic slots anymore so it actually makes sense to have a 'slots' coupon instead of segregating them. Other than confusing players that are relatively new to RTG I really don't see the advantage in only playing 'classic' slots as opposed to RSVS and vice-versa.

 

[SlotsLover]

still don't understand

I still don't understand how depositing too much on one bonus code, and losing (with no chance to win on that one) has affected the following code which he did deposit the right amount. No advantage was gained, if anything, the OP was at disadvantage because he could not win on the erred amount.

Please explain how this is different than if virtual casino did not pay a player on one of their unlimited slots bonuses who won on slots but who had played a disallowed game on an earlier deposit with same code (and lost).

I'm at a major loss to understand this and I'd like to hear the opinion of most members of the forum and I'd also be interested in a more detailed explanation by Max (if he likes). I'm just very confused by this ruling and maybe I am not understanding the issue right.

Also, would be great if this thread stayed on this particular INET ruling as compared to jumping all over and clouding the issue with the link5 bonus code.

 

[maxd]

As I read it the Terms specified a specific progression from one deposit to the next. The OP did not follow that progression and therefor violated the Terms. Sorry but where is the confusion?

If the Terms said you must deposit 10, then 20, then 50, then 100, then stop and you did something else -- say 10-20-100-200 -- then you would have violated the Terms. Simples, no?

I'm not saying the Terms necessarily MADE GOOD SENSE but that's not the point. They aren't required to. They are an offer made by a casino and they're free to lay out whatever hoops-for-jumping that they care to. If player agrees to participate then player should follow the prescribed obstacle course as it was defined by the casino. Don't like it? Beauty, don't play!

Apologies if I missed your point but I don't see that there's much room for equivocation here. That's doubly true (I would think) given that the OP didn't even read the Terms.

 

[Balky]

Unfortunately the casino has the right to withhold the cashout. But the promotion and the entire case are not player friendly. Seems to be profitable to set up a promotion with terms that only native english speakers can fully understand and stick to, and the casino reacts only when it comes to such a big cashout. There was no warning message set up when the coupon was requested. I have understanding for the OP. Its just tiresome to be forced to study every single term before making any small deposit. A genuine player wants to play, and not to study T&C rules. Just my 2 cents.

B

 

[aceking123]

Unfortunately the casino has the right to withhold the cashout. But the promotion and the entire case are not player friendly. Seems to be profitable to set up a promotion with terms that only native english speakers can fully understand and stick to, and the casino reacts only when it comes to such a big cashout. There was no warning message set up when the coupon was requested. I have understanding for the OP. Its just tiresome to be forced to study every single term before making any small deposit. A genuine player wants to play, and not to study T&C rules. Just my 2 cents.

B

this isnt just pointed at you or any other forum member i realy dont see anyones logic here in damning the casino , those rules are pretty damn clear to me & a few other members , had he made the same deposits throughout using the links we wouldnt even be here talking about non payment

the op has broken the rules ive taken this bonus a few times & can clarify never once has inetbet not paid me! i was within the rules i read the rules, there pretty clear its a stacking promo , you want to play using a stacking promo the you better read the conditions , ive had my fair share of problems ( cs ) no e mails but ive always been paid , had a hitch a long time ago with KYC but nifty pointed me to the problem there & it was cleared up .

 

[Balky]

After almost ten years online gambling never any of my cashouts was denied, because I do read the promotional terms. And I am not damning this casino simply because the player did break the term. All I wanted to say is that I feel sorry for the player, who was a loyal customer and lost a lot of money. There are casinos out there that handle such situations in a less restrictive way.

Balky

 

[aceking123]

im with you on it balky , i do feel for the op , but you cant go around stating inetbet does not pay when infact they do pay , but the terms were broken.

 

[Balky]

im with you on it balky , i do feel for the op , but you cant go around stating inetbet does not pay when infact they do pay , but the terms were broken.

Actually I nowhere stated, leave alone "going around stating" that they are non-payers or rogues. Obviously they are ok regarding payments, or they would not be accredited. Personally I never played there and have no attitude towards them. All I wanted to express was that I feel sorry for the player for losing 10K because he made a mistake. I dont think it was wrong to make such a post here

Cheers

Balky

 

[suzecat]

Actually I nowhere stated, leave alone "going around stating" that they are non-payers or rogues. Obviously they are ok regarding payments, or they would not be accredited. Personally I never played there and have no attitude towards them. All I wanted to express was that I feel sorry for the player for losing 10K because he made a mistake. I dont think it was wrong to make such a post here

Cheers

Balky

Not only do I think it is wrong -- it is freaking naïve to not realize the op has played you for what is it -- 13 pages -- in this thread. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[bonuskeeper]

I would first like to thank you for the many messages of solidarity.

Honestly, I never believed in this possibility of PAB. I made it just because many of you have invited me to do it.
The response of private maxd was so clear and peremptory as to seem written by the casino and not by those who should be on your side.

I have never denied that it has filed more than allowed, but did not draw any advantage from that deposit and to have won with a correct deposit.

I'm sure if I were to claim a payout of € 500 I would have paid. 10k winning attach themselves to anything not to pay.

it is normal to behave like this, it is not normal to do it one of the casino who call themselves accredited and serious.

If I did not have the advantage of good faith by the error could be taken into account when decisions are made.