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Casino Complaint HofmannEs VS Fortune Room Casino

1.Between the date of my deposit and my first withdrawal I was playing at the casino.
2.I don't get strange the fact I requested my first withdrawal after 3 months and a half, I hope I didn't broke any T&C with that
3.Fortune Room casino has a slowly verification process and requested many documents in stages, isn't that strange?
4.I won't request a PAB, I would like to keep this public, but if Casinomeister would like to review documents, emails or something else I am willing to give them. I have nothing to hide and I am ready to confront Fortune Room rep here in front of you all.

So you want Bryan to have access to your documents but not the casino's?

File a PAB and let Bryan or Max have access to ALL the information and if you're not a fraud you'll get your money.

Keep bitching about it here and it will quickly get old and you'll get nothing.

There's absolutely nothing anyone can say in this thread that will get you paid.
 
when you sent the message?
i have contacted the rep a few times (not because of complaints fortunaly) and usually i was answered in 24 hours or less

also i have sent them my docs this year and in the same day i´ve got thee answer it was aproved

if you have 100% sure that you are correct, without broke any terms, without have multiple accounts etc, PAB the case.
in case if you win, everyone will know
in case if you loose, everyone will know also

i think you should do that.
but read all the pab rules 1st


The message was sent on 20th September 2013, 03:25 PM, still no answer.
 
So you want Bryan to have access to your documents but not the casino's?

File a PAB and let Bryan or Max have access to ALL the information and if you're not a fraud you'll get your money.

Keep bitching about it here and it will quickly get old and you'll get nothing.

There's absolutely nothing anyone can say in this thread that will get you paid.

Casino already have my documents, as I said some of you didn't read the full post.

As long as third party get in possesion of my documents, personal information, gamehistory or something else, the case became non-confidential.Making a PAB it's non-confidential in my opinion, posting this public it's also non-confidential in my opinion.

I don't get why some of you are so mad about my action and don't question why the casino rep doesn't respond to my private message or casino closes account after a long period of playing citing a strange reason.
 
I think in this case it might be useful if someone who is German explains to him what the PAB service actually is. I'm suspecting English isn't the first language of the OP and might not totally understand what benefit the PAB service can have during a dispute with another casino.

Like other members pointed out, if you have no problem co-operating and showing evidence/docs/mails/screenshots etc. Then basically it serves the same purpose as a PAB.


Right, English isn't my native spoken language. I understand what is a PAB.
 
I assume this thread could be closed and I accepted this from the beginning.
If my case won't be solved this way I will consult the option to call them in court, They are registered in Malta which it is a state member of European Union since 2004 as Germany is.
 
I assume this thread could be closed and I accepted this from the beginning.
If my case won't be solved this way I will consult the option to call them in court, They are registered in Malta which it is a state member of European Union since 2004 as Germany is.

Not sure if you are being an ass now or what, you have been told to file a PAB a completely free service, people have advised you that you cannot fight it out with the rep here, now you are threatening to take to court :confused:

What the hell is your problem just file the PAB If I had that much money at stake and I knew I had done nothing wrong I would not hesitate to do it. As I said in an earlier thread I am always willing to give the benefit of the doubt but now I am sure there is something wrong with your story just by your total rejection of advice given
 
I assume this thread could be closed and I accepted this from the beginning.
If my case won't be solved this way I will consult the option to call them in court, They are registered in Malta which it is a state member of European Union since 2004 as Germany is.

Ok cool much much easier to take them to court than to PAB !!! Good luck with that ! :rolleyes:
 
I assume this thread could be closed and I accepted this from the beginning.
If my case won't be solved this way I will consult the option to call them in court, They are registered in Malta which it is a state member of European Union since 2004 as Germany is.


Can you wait for court answer 8 years ? You maybe win 16000 € back , but in same pay 16000€ in cost of trial. ( If you win , court allways have right to, but both involved pay own expences )

I think you should PAB first and if that goes poorly. Then go to court.
 
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How sensitive became the 'court' subject suddently :), does someone here benefits the Fortune Lounge affiliate programs and don't want their image beeing harmed or what? Just asking!

People belive more in PAB than court, I don't say PAB can't solve issues like this but I don't know who is behind, for me Casinomeister it's a casino forum I found on Google. They can not force Fortune Room to pay me or cancel their license incase they are found guilty, a court can do that.
 
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How sensitive became the 'court' subject suddently :), does someone here benefits the Fortune Lounge affiliate programs and don't want their image beeing harmed or what? Just asking!

People belive more in PAB than court, I don't say PAB can't solve issues like this but I don't know who is behind, for me Casinomeister it's a casino forum I found on Google. They can not force Fortune Room to pay me or cancel their license incase they are found guilty, a court can do that.

If you are thinking that you don't really want to make PAB ( PAB don't cost you anything ).

Any one here don't care if you go to court, it is your decision. It may just cost you and a lot.
 
HofmannEs;580945[B said:
]How sensitive became the 'court' subject suddently :), does someone here benefits the Fortune Lounge affiliate programs and don't want their image beeing harmed or what? Just asking![/B]

People belive more in PAB than court, I don't say PAB can't solve issues like this but I don't know who is behind, for me Casinomeister it's a casino forum I found on Google. They can not force Fortune Room to pay me or cancel their license incase they are found guilty, a court can do that.

Now I am convinced you are an ass

If you lose all your money then it serves you right
 
How sensitive became the 'court' subject suddently :), does someone here benefits the Fortune Lounge affiliate programs and don't want their image beeing harmed or what? Just asking!

People belive more in PAB than court, I don't say PAB can't solve issues like this but I don't know who is behind, for me Casinomeister it's a casino forum I found on Google. They can not force Fortune Room to pay me or cancel their license incase they are found guilty, a court can do that.

You're entering a slippery slope my friend. Sarcasm, allusions of forum honesty and credibility of people who run it will get you barred before you blink, rightly so.

to PAB, or not to PAB, that is the question, yes?

Well, PAB:

1. You enter into an email exchange with MAX and provide all docs and emails (just like you would as you suggest, openly in a forum)
1a. You list your valid questions, why were my docs accepted, why was I left to play, why did they ask 6 times, why did they claim i was an AP... etc. And MAx will add a few of his own you may not have thought of, due to his vast experience.

2. Casino replies and they show their evidence and answers the questions, just like they wouldn't be able to in a forum.

** Let me preempt the "why not?" for you: because we don't feel like teaching fraudulent players how they are caught, so EVERY mediation service is known to agree that no public discolure of evidence will follow. That includes maxes PAB service, gamblinggrumbles, the POGG and pick any other site. **

3. Max is either shown the evidence that exposes you to be fraudulent; and by this i mean you opened multiple accounts, you used fake ID's, etc. (not AP - if you're an AP you'll get paid, it's casinos fault for not catching you on time; best they can do is bar you in future)

OR the casino starts stuttering and shifting about because they did in fact freeze your winnings because you took advantage of their bonus.

End result: the case comes to a close (let's assume in your favour) and we are informed of the outcome. Hopefully, you are paid. Alternatively, casino doesn't pay you but they go off the accredited list and get severe PR damage, far greater than your payout would cost them.

Needless to say, Casinomesiter standing behind your case and veto-ing casino credibility has far more reaching influence than your alone.

************************

Second option - you DONT PAB.

1. You state your case (already done)
2. Casino states they cant reply because they have sensitive information that you are a fraudster and they cant disclose it.
3. You ask "but why? Tell the people, i have nothing to hide."
4. They say, "you do have what to hide and you know what it is. We have no interest in teaching you how to avoid getting caught next time"

You start angrily trashing their name, Max and Bryan - kill your account. You bitterly walk off into the sundown.

Effectively you have tied Max's hands, you put yourself ion a position where even a rogue casino can easily defend themselves and say you are lying and you achieved nothing but label yourself as yet another fraudster like many we have seen before.

**Above is the reason why this entire audience cant understand why you wont PAB.

Don't read above as *one of outcome possibilities* - if you don't PAB, above will happen, exactly as written, without a shred of doubt.

I can tell you first hand: no casino, ever, will expose their anti-fraud measures and processes publicly, leaving them on the internet free-to-read for generations to come. It's just not going to happen. As such, all they have to do is label you a fraudster and you are done. Without a PAB, they don't need to prove it (publicly as you demand) and you refused to enter mediation on your own accord, so trust is not on your side.

Your only option here is to PAB after a post like the one you opened this thread with, otherwise, i suspect we'll be seeing your name in red by this time tomorrow.

Good luck

Igor
 
Now I am convinced you are an ass

If you lose all your money then it serves you right

I have no intention beeing an ass or offend someone, I simply can't post my experience in someones perspective.
This discution goes away from the case. I will avoid responding to challenges in the future but I will update the thread when I'll have fresh news about the case.
 
and yes, casino can´t pos any sensitive information in public

in all the casinos sites says, "your information keeps private"
so if the casino go against that, the casino is going agains their own rules of guarantee to the player max security

or you want the casino to broke that rule and try take advantage of that? :rolleyes:

if you are waiting that, you can forget

if your reason is to blame the casino, the casino is not being affected, you are being affected more negativly than the casino, because you are not helping to the things get solved to one side, or to another side.

PAB is FREE, and, in my opinion is totally confidential, you will not get any spams, you will not send any personal docs to nobody of CM, only to casino if needed, (it looks that if you have already sent it will not be necessary to send again)

you asked for help? people here are trying to help you, but you also need to colaborate., if you dont want be helped and you want to solve the things in your ways? go ahead and dont ask for help, its your decision.
 
I have no intention beeing an ass or offend someone, I simply can't post my experience in someones perspective.
This discution goes away from the case. I will avoid responding to challenges in the future but I will update the thread when I'll have fresh news about the case.

people are trying to help you not challenge you )

PAB it we as members would like to see the outcome

you have nothing to lose by a PAB anyway
 
Some people think by posting in a forum that the casino will get all upset and make nice. Ain't the way it works here.


My mousey whiskers are tingling.... I may be wrong, but.... maybe Bryan would do well to check the OPs IP against former members....
 
Some people think by posting in a forum that the casino will get all upset and make nice. Ain't the way it works here.


My mousey whiskers are tingling.... I may be wrong, but.... maybe Bryan would do well to check the OPs IP against former members....


it looks like the op dont wnat the help, looks like want to blame the casino, but who´s getting blammed is the op with such attitudes.
 
I have no intention beeing an ass or offend someone, I simply can't post my experience in someones perspective.
This discution goes away from the case. I will avoid responding to challenges in the future but I will update the thread when I'll have fresh news about the case.

I cannot speak for others but I have no interest whatsoever on the outcome of your case. If I had your misfortune(taken from title of thread) I would happily PAB and given Max's stellar history of getting issues resolved I would be laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Like Chu I have no interest whatsoever in the outcome of your case, except for the fact that I hate to see players get played by casinos (and I love to see cheating players get fried as well).

I can only, like everyone else, tell you that Max has excellent results in getting cases like yours resolved, so if you're as genuine as you say you are, you should seriously PAB, if you want to have the slightest chance of ever seeing any of your money. It IS by far your best shot.

To keep posting here, not willing to try and work something out, will not help you. All it does is make YOU look suspicious, so right now, you're actually helping the casino.
 
How sensitive became the 'court' subject suddently :), does someone here benefits the Fortune Lounge affiliate programs and don't want their image beeing harmed or what? Just asking!

People belive more in PAB than court, I don't say PAB can't solve issues like this but I don't know who is behind, for me Casinomeister it's a casino forum I found on Google. They can not force Fortune Room to pay me or cancel their license incase they are found guilty, a court can do that.

You just closed your own thread good job.
 
You just closed your own thread good job.

Thank you for the opinion to this case, Casinomeister will decide that and I am sure will take the appropiate actions, even they are against me, I assume that.
Fortune Lounge Representative response or/and Casinomeister indications will be crucial for me submitting a PAB.
In this case any comments are useless.
 
Hallo,
nur zur deiner Information. Ein PAB ist kostenlos und wenn du nichts zu verbergen hast, die beste Lösung für dein Problem. Leider ist deine Geschichte etwas unglaubwürdig, du nimmst keine Ratschläge an und willst öffentlich gegen ein Casino losgehen. Viel Glück dabei, aber du wirst hier keine Unterstützung finden bei deinem Vorhaben.

Hello,
just for your information. A PAB is free and if you have nothing to hide the best chance to solve your problem. Unfortunately your story is not reliable, you don`t take advices and you want to rip into a casino in public. I wish you good luck with this case but you will get no support from this forum in this project.
 
I remember the times when it was allowed to discuss the issues on the forum and making the PAB at the same time.
And the problems were solved much faster. These days even bad choice of words by the OP can increase the chances
of PAB being thrown to the garbage. From the moment the OP publishes his complaint he is shouted at: shut up, shut up, you better shut up!
Just read the archives and see how these same problems were solved at this forum at 2000-2010 years. Everything was much more player-friendly. I wonder what happened?
Suddenly everybody become fraudsters?
 
Thank you for the opinion to this case, Casinomeister will decide that and I am sure will take the appropiate actions, even they are against me, I assume that.
Fortune Lounge Representative response or/and Casinomeister indications will be crucial for me submitting a PAB.
In this case any comments are useless.

casino reputation will not suffer any changes with simple comments of who have the real reason
 
Anything is wrong with this guy. If I have the chance to get my money back, and 16`000 Euros is a lot of money for me, I would to anything for it. He don`t want a PAB, well in my opinion something stinks here. Just my 2 cents.
 
16.000 is a lot of money really
if it was me, i was alreday sending pm´s to the rep, pab, etc instead of saying that everyone is wrong or that saying that want the discussion in public
 
I remember the times when it was allowed to discuss the issues on the forum and making the PAB at the same time.
And the problems were solved much faster. These days even bad choice of words by the OP can increase the chances
of PAB being thrown to the garbage. From the moment the OP publishes his complaint he is shouted at: shut up, shut up, you better shut up!
Just read the archives and see how these same problems were solved at this forum at 2000-2010 years. Everything was much more player-friendly. I wonder what happened?
Suddenly everybody become fraudsters?

With all DUE respect......

You have no idea what you're on about. Not a clue.

It's pretty obvious you have a personal agenda against CM and casinos in general, and you support every complainant that walks through the door....even AFTER they've been proven to be fraudsters.

Why do you even come here? I could think of some other forums you would be far more comfortable at, should that be your choice.
 
It sounds to me like you've already decided you're not getting paid.

The story seemed strange at first with the casino allowing you to continue playing after a withdrawal was refused but when a member openly states he would rather trash the casino in public than solve the problem in private the member probably has something to hide.

No casino rep is going to come here and fight with you in public. First of all, that's not a casino rep's job and second of all there would be absolutely no point in it. If a casino believes there is something wrong with your account all the public fighting in the world isn't going to change that.

If you want to clear the matter up you have to have a third party look at all the information and act as an arbitrator. One post from Max or Bryan stating that this casino is wrongfully holding your winnings will damage this casino's reputation (at least in this forum) more than a thousand of your poorly written rants.

The only way you'll get any real help from this forum is to PAB. Now explain why you're willing to sacrifice €16000 to avoid doing that.
 
A private message was sent to Fortune Lounge rep at 03:25 PM 20th September 2013, still no response, still no reason to make a PAB yet.
Please stop making stories
 
A private message was sent to Fortune Lounge rep at 03:25 PM 20th September 2013, still no response, still no reason to make a PAB yet.
Please stop making stories

They don't visit the forum 7/24 so please be patient. FL is one of the better MG casino groups and unless fraud is involved they usually do the right thing. Anyway, stop making enemies of members here. Nobody is making up stories against you but similarly, out of mutual respect, you shouldn't be firing accusations at others. Most of us wont be pampering you. We just want both the player and casino to be treated fairly and we wont take your word for everything.
 
I remember the times when it was allowed to discuss the issues on the forum and making the PAB at the same time. ... Suddenly everybody become fraudsters?

You're always welcome to contact Bryan if you have requests for changes to the PAB process, or you could post it in the Link Outdated / Removed forum. Either option would certainly be more constructive than a random grumble buried away in someone else's thread.

Insofar a fraud goes perhaps you need to spend a little time looking through the PAB Archives. You will see that:
  1. fraud cases have always been part of the overall PAB statistics.
  2. fraud cases have become more common over the years -- a fairly steady increase -- largely due to better detection methods on the casino side.
  3. certainly not "everybody" is a fraudster. Again, look at the archives. Fraud is around 30%, give or take.

Finally, don't be a troll. If you think we're such shite then go elsewhere and be happy there. Taking shots at us by sprinkling your dirt around the forums is not constructive.
 
I also remember the time when Bryan had to tighten up the rules about discussing ongoing PABs because operators began to feel the procedure wasn't fair on them, and it also entrenched positions on both sides making a resolution more difficult.

Gambling Grumbles tends to allow more in the way of discussion during their own mediation procedures, and they often have different outcomes to a PAB. There are operators that are willing to work with Gambling Grumbles, but not CM, and vice versa. Fortune Lounge however IS willing to work with CM.

It would seem that other sites have Fortune Lounge on their warning lists or black lists, yet Beating Bonuses have a number of threads on how to "do" the boni there, despite classing them as "high risk". Many members there bear a grudge because FL are particularly adept at catching them out, and it seems they view "gnoming" as acceptable advantage play, whereas here it is viewed as "crossing the line" that divides advantage play from fraud.

Someone over at BB even said one of their multi accounters went so far as to set up his own notary office in order to get around the increasing trend for requesting notarised documents. I can't quite figure this out as surely one needs to be properly qualified and vetted to be listed as a notary and perform these duties to the satisfaction of those relying on the service to authenticate high value business transactions.

If a rep does not reply to their PM after a reasonable time, then a PAB can still go ahead. When the form has been completed and given the OK by Max, it is sent to the rep, and Max then takes care of managing this side of communications.
 
I also remember the time when Bryan had to tighten up the rules about discussing ongoing PABs because operators began to feel the procedure wasn't fair on them, and it also entrenched positions on both sides making a resolution more difficult.

Gambling Grumbles tends to allow more in the way of discussion during their own mediation procedures, and they often have different outcomes to a PAB. There are operators that are willing to work with Gambling Grumbles, but not CM, and vice versa. Fortune Lounge however IS willing to work with CM.

It would seem that other sites have Fortune Lounge on their warning lists or black lists, yet Beating Bonuses have a number of threads on how to "do" the boni there, despite classing them as "high risk". Many members there bear a grudge because FL are particularly adept at catching them out, and it seems they view "gnoming" as acceptable advantage play, whereas here it is viewed as "crossing the line" that divides advantage play from fraud.

Someone over at BB even said one of their multi accounters went so far as to set up his own notary office in order to get around the increasing trend for requesting notarised documents. I can't quite figure this out as surely one needs to be properly qualified and vetted to be listed as a notary and perform these duties to the satisfaction of those relying on the service to authenticate high value business transactions.

If a rep does not reply to their PM after a reasonable time, then a PAB can still go ahead. When the form has been completed and given the OK by Max, it is sent to the rep, and Max then takes care of managing this side of communications.

Very good post Vinyl :thumbsup:

If the bolded statement above doesn't convince the doubters, then I don't know what will.
 
I don't know why this is even an issue, to keep pressing the OP to file a PAB. We already know the outcome of this. The end results is only going to make some us deposit at Fortune Room even more. LOL
 
Very good post Vinyl :thumbsup:

If the bolded statement above doesn't convince the doubters, then I don't know what will.

This is what surprised me the most. I came close in suggesting the possibility of a "corrupt notary", but thought that they would still have had to have entered the profession after having undergone a whole raft of checks. If it really is possible for some ordinary person to just set themselves up as a notary, then the whole concept of requesting notarised documents from suspect players could be dead in the water. The determined fraudsters would have already thought of this and have their own "in ring notary" ready and waiting to notarise the output of whatever Adobe product the multi accounter chose to use.

This makes me think again about that earlier case where even notarised documents were dismissed by the casino from a player with a username reminiscent of the Wimbledon Ladies final when I was a young teen. A legit notary by all accounts, seemingly checking out, but was this the notary to which the BB member was referring?

If this is all in the BB public forum, God knows what they are discussing in the private one. Their mods appear to be asleep at the wheel, as anyone, including the FL rep, can take a wander over there and read all of this.

Getting into the BB private forum seems just a case of signing up at 10 of the casinos promoted there, and "doing the boni", and then asking to be let in after a few useful posts. I understand that the REAL dark stuff isn't there either, but it seems that a slip up by a member, just as in the public forum, might leave a clue as to the next method the multi accounters are up to.
 
This is what surprised me the most. I came close in suggesting the possibility of a "corrupt notary", but thought that they would still have had to have entered the profession after having undergone a whole raft of checks. If it really is possible for some ordinary person to just set themselves up as a notary, then the whole concept of requesting notarised documents from suspect players could be dead in the water. The determined fraudsters would have already thought of this and have their own "in ring notary" ready and waiting to notarise the output of whatever Adobe product the multi accounter chose to use.

This makes me think again about that earlier case where even notarised documents were dismissed by the casino from a player with a username reminiscent of the Wimbledon Ladies final when I was a young teen. A legit notary by all accounts, seemingly checking out, but was this the notary to which the BB member was referring?

If this is all in the BB public forum, God knows what they are discussing in the private one. Their mods appear to be asleep at the wheel, as anyone, including the FL rep, can take a wander over there and read all of this.

Getting into the BB private forum seems just a case of signing up at 10 of the casinos promoted there, and "doing the boni", and then asking to be let in after a few useful posts. I understand that the REAL dark stuff isn't there either, but it seems that a slip up by a member, just as in the public forum, might leave a clue as to the next method the multi accounters are up to.


vinyl
sorry for my ignorance but
what means the "BB"?
 
Becoming a Notary Public in the UK

I have found this guide on the internet, an excerpt from a Notaries own site in answer to a number of queries received from those whishing to become one.

The overwhelming majority of Notaries Public are qualified solicitors or legal practitioners. A Notary Public in London, or elsewhere in England and Wales for that matter, must first complete the Postgraduate Diploma in Notarial Practice.

To the best of our knowledge, the only place offering such a Notary diploma is Cambridge University. The course is conducted as distance learning via the internet and with group teaching sessions at Madingley Hall in Cambridge. It lasts for a two year period, and is open to solicitors and barristers in general private practice, and to those with a recent qualifying law degree and Legal Practice Certificate. All Applicants should hold an up to date and complete Certificate of Exemption obtainable from the Faculty Office of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

There are three core subject areas to study. The area is Roman law, which is covered in year one, along with Private International Law.

Notarial Practice forms the basis for the second year of study.

There are written assignments of 2,000 words for both Roman Law and Private International Law, followed by an examination, and three assignments for the Notarial practice course of 3,000 words each.

The final assessment stage to become a Notary Public is a two hour written exam held in Cambridge.

Even if you make it past this, there is still a period where the newly admitted notary has to be supervised by an experienced one.

It seems that in the UK at least, the scope to just set up as a genuine notary is seriously limited. This leaves the possibility that setting up as a fake notary is what might be going on. There is, of course, the following list of recognised Notaries Public in England and Wales.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


If a player has had their documents verified by a genuine notary in England or Wales, they should be on this list. Operators should, of course, be using this list, not the contact details supplied by the player, to validate the authenticity of the seal. I would presume that similar lists are available for notaries elsewhere, and as such would be useful for players faced with such a request, as well as operators verifying the seals.
 
In my opinion some players make a lot of mistakes.
1. I play for the first time online or landbased and I win--> now I always win
2. I play 10 sessions after my win and I lose 9 of them --> the casino let me win and now I`m a junkie and can`t stop
3. After a big win I lose --> Well, if you play slots your RTP is about 95%, that`s normal. If you win (100 --> 1000 or more), that`s not normal, this is called luck. If you lose then it`s an unlucky session. Wrong time and wrong place and your bad luck. But in long term you will always lose in casinos, that`s a fact.
I play for 25 years now and I lost money in the most years . But I don`t play for making money, I play for entertainment, I like it, that`s all.

The problem nowadays are the fraudsters, people who believe to make some money in the gambling industry. These people are the reason why I have to give all the documents to the casino, why I have to play through the bonus for 50 times, why the TaC are so restrictive and so on and on and on.
There are a lot of black casino sheeps around and CM is a good platform to inform the gamblers not to gamble in these casinos.
But in this forum are also a lot of fraudsters, and I saw a statement from Max that 30% of the PAB are from fraudsters. Makes me a little sad for all the members here in the forum, including myself.

Now back to topic: The OP is a german guy who don`t want to make a PAB, because the casino didn`t answered his mail. Well, maybe he has a lot of money to burn or he tried to kid CM or the casino. I can`t find a stagegy in his line of action.

Hope you can understand my writing

Greetings
Sascha:)
 
Too much excitement here my friends, again, no offence.
I am still waiting rep's private response to me, that it's decisive for making a PAB, Maxd already gaved me free hand on it.
 
vinyl
sorry for my ignorance but
what means the "BB"?
I think he means Beating Bonuses - a portal and forum specifically aimed at "advantage players".
Care should be taken by anyone using that site, as they promote a lot of casinos that are rogued here at CM.

KK
 
Edit: This is what Gambling Grumbles had to say about FL just 2 months ago:

"We have said it over and over and over again: Stay away from any casino which belongs to the Fortune Lounge Group. It doesn't matter if it is 7Sultans, Vegas Palms, Vegas Towers, Platinum Play, Desert Dollar, Royal Vegas, Poker Time, or Giggle Bingo -- don't play there.

Francisco S of Brighton, England, learned that lesson the hard way. He played at three Fortune Lounge casinos, getting a bonus each time, and winding up losing his deposits. Okay, he had no problem with that, gambling is gambling and you can always lose. What bothers Francisco (and Gambling Grumbles) is that when he played at Vegas Palms he won and it not only refused to give him his winnings but also kept his deposit."

We are quite aware of the comments on Gambling Grumbles.

If you look at all the complaints on Gambling Grumbles they relate to players whose accounts were locked and winnings confiscated. Here on CM members know that we do not just lock accounts and confiscate winnings without very good reason and after extensive investigations. The players complaining in that forums would have been subjected to the very same investigations.

We made a conscious decision (for several reasons) not to participate in the Gambling Grumbles forum.

Regards

Wim
 
We are quite aware of the comments on Gambling Grumbles.

If you look at all the complaints on Gambling Grumbles they relate to players whose accounts were locked and winnings confiscated. Here on CM members know that we do not just lock accounts and confiscate winnings without very good reason and after extensive investigations. The players complaining in that forums would have been subjected to the very same investigations.

We made a conscious decision (for several reasons) not to participate in the Gambling Grumbles forum.

Regards

Wim

From what I read at many forums - you not only confiscate winnings - you also confiscate players' deposits. Tons and tons of players' deposits. And then you refuse to discuss. And you don't discuss anything at this forum too. Look at this thread- you just ignored the OP and his complaint.
 
Hi hakapuku

That is quite true. When a player attempts to defraud one of our casinos we will, in most cases confiscate winnings and deposits.

I have not ignored the player or his complaint. I have already responded to his PM and as soon as I have all the facts I will first repond to him via PM and then post in the forum (like I always do)

Regards

Wim
 
From what I read at many forums - you not only confiscate winnings - you also confiscate players' deposits. Tons and tons of players' deposits. And then you refuse to discuss. And you don't discuss anything at this forum too. Look at this thread- you just ignored the OP and his complaint.

This is a far more serious issue, and deposits should always be sent back after bets are voided.

The cases at Gambling Grumbles will have been decided on the players' evidence alone given that the operator in this case does not participate. This, unfortunately, means fraudsters are less likely to get exposed as their evidence cannot be verified against that of the operator, and they are not likely to tell Gambling Grumbles the full story.

Keeping deposits should be very rare, and only where it is impossible to verify the rightful owner of the funds, nor possible to send it back to source, such as with MasterCard and methods like UKash.

Deposits should NEVER be kept when it is merely "advantage play" exploiting a loophole in the terms, and the standards here are that in such cases, the player should be paid and then booted out.

Keeping deposits can open the door to chargebacks by offering a justification for exercising the right with the card company under consumer banking regulations. Once it becomes more acceptable to charge back because a casino has kept the deposit after voiding the bets, it is easier for frauds to pretend that their charge backs are nothing more sinister than exercising the same rights, rather than them charging back all losing deposits and trying to get paid off the winners.

In almost all cases that come here, we see deposits returned at some stage in the proceedings. It's possible that in many of the cases at Gambling Grumbles, the players did eventually get their deposits back, but "forgot" to update Gambling Grumbles about it, hence the report is based on only the initial complaint.

From a quick look at the main forum at BB, I get the impression that Fortune Lounge is over represented, and hence possibly a top target. This would then lead to an unusually high number of cases where players got their bets voided reaching the various fora. Perhaps 8 sister casinos with a welcome bonus at each is what has drawn BB players there in the past.
 
I've worked with Wim for several years now on many dozens of PAB cases. In my opinion they are thorough and fair when it comes to their handling of player issues. It is true that FL has a somewhat aggressive policy towards fraudsters but then they're trying to deter such activities and I'd say that the confiscation of deposits is most certainly an effective deterrent. The idea that a fraudster should be treated like any other player is foolishness and the FL group are well within their rights to make exceptions, and examples, of them.
 
I've worked with Wim for several years now on many dozens of PAB cases. In my opinion they are thorough and fair when it comes to their handling of player issues. It is true that FL has a somewhat aggressive policy towards fraudsters but then they're trying to deter such activities and I'd say that the confiscation of deposits is most certainly an effective deterrent. The idea that a fraudster should be treated like any other player is foolishness and the FL group are well within their rights to make exceptions, and examples, of them.

The problem is that it is the casino that is often judge and jury in such cases, and there is no guarantee that they are right in every case. Whilst it might make fraudsters think twice, it probably does little to deter the determined ones, but is a policy that can be used to create bad PR for the operator, which in turn makes the fraudsters look less bad. I would suspect fraudsters would have factored in the risk of having deposits confiscated, and taken measures to minimise their losses. These measures would likely be along the lines of ensuring that they can use the chargeback weapon of last resort through the structuring of their deposit methods, and not necessarily as obvious as using a credit card and depositing £100 or more.
 

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