Casino Complaint HofmannEs VS Fortune Room Casino

[Nifty29]

They simply have a higher volume of complaints than some other outfits out there. There's a lot of casinos available, and I tend to stick with those that don't have a history of player-casino issues.

For example, there's been only one complaint so far regarding Ladbrokes new casino and yet, I'm already a bit anxious. If I see plenty of complains then I'm no longer anxious - I just prefer to avoid such casino by default. You never know when you might hit that x1000 bet and I wouldn't want this to happen in one of FL casinos .

This was just a general remark, we don't know what happened in this case in particular. Although requesting more and more stuff from a player, rather that ask for everything in one batch will always create a bad impression. Casinos should ask for everything in one go : ID + photo of ID+face + notary + copy of CC + utility + whatever else, or if they have some other 'identifiers' they should just close the account right off the bat, rather than let alleged fraudster play while asking for stuff that won't make much difference anyway. That's how professional casinos should operate.

I find it a bit amusing that photo of a player holding his passport was supposed to be the ultimate solution to multiaccounting and now we see it doesn't really make any difference. Why don't they ask the player make a video of him walking down his street holding his passport, then walk into his house and show his account balance on his own computer. Cheaper than notary and much more solid in terms of proof

If you remove that issue that happened nearly 7 years ago....which WAS the result of a fraud ring IIRC which caused the net to be cast too wide (which is why SOME players were reimbursed)...the FL group actually has a LOW number of complaints. I don't recall many cases here at CM for years, and I've certainly not seen any GENUINE players lose their winnings. I'm sure Max can clarify that.

People should take much of what happens at "other sites" with a grain of salt. Many of these "other sites" either actively encourage fraudsters, or take the player's version of events as gospel etc. Given that FL are accredited here, this site and it's PAB service would be the first and best port of call for players experiencing issues....and yet there are very few here.

In my experience over nearly 20 years, I can safely say that if you have an issue with FL, and you're a genuine honest player, you have NOTHING to worry about.

The fact that you had to use, and misrepresent, something that happened more than 6 years ago as your basis for shitcanning FL makes me wonder if you have some kind of personal agenda.

You'll also notice the (unattributed) quote you provided says "LIKELY due to eCogra etc"....in other words, it's supposition and assumption, which is unfair to FL as it suggests they were "forced" to pay players when it may well have not been the case.

 

[skiny]

They simply have a higher volume of complaints than some other outfits out there. There's a lot of casinos available, and I tend to stick with those that don't have a history of player-casino issues.

For example, there's been only one complaint so far regarding Ladbrokes new casino and yet, I'm already a bit anxious. If I see plenty of complains then I'm no longer anxious - I just prefer to avoid such casino by default. You never know when you might hit that x1000 bet and I wouldn't want this to happen in one of FL casinos .

This was just a general remark, we don't know what happened in this case in particular. Although requesting more and more stuff from a player, rather that ask for everything in one batch will always create a bad impression. Casinos should ask for everything in one go : ID + photo of ID+face + notary + copy of CC + utility + whatever else, or if they have some other 'identifiers' they should just close the account right off the bat, rather than let alleged fraudster play while asking for stuff that won't make much difference anyway. That's how professional casinos should operate.

I find it a bit amusing that photo of a player holding his passport was supposed to be the ultimate solution to multiaccounting and now we see it doesn't really make any difference. Why don't they ask the player make a video of him walking down his street holding his passport, then walk into his house and show his account balance on his own computer. Cheaper than notary and much more solid in terms of proof

Quite often it's just a stall tactic when casinos continue requesting new documents and other times the documents provided just aren't good enough or there are suspicions and the stall tactic is created just to give the casino more time to investigate. When a casino stalls a payment it's not always a case of not wanting to part with the money. But when a player is under investigation or under suspicion the account should be locked. People shouldn't be allowed to win or lose money at a casino when they may not get paid.

In this case, after the first withdrawal attempt failed the player was allowed to play and win another 16k. Personally I wouldn't have kept playing if a casino refused a payment. In this case it may have worked in the player's favour. It depends if the player is proven a fraud.

I recently started playing at Bodog just for a change. I have never tried to make a withdrawal from this casino so after I played my first deposit I sent an email asking if they needed any documents in the event I ever try to make a withdrawal. They responded with a vague "We'll let you know." I emailed back and said you can let me know now. I don't want to wait until I'm ready to withdrawal to send documents. Two more vague emails later I finally got a solid "Yes we have everything we need." I saved that email and then I made my second deposit. Casino support there is more than nice enough and I don't think they were doing anything shady. I just think they were being a little more relaxed about the request than I cared for them to be.

 

[hakapuku]

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[Przecinek]

The fact that you had to use, and misrepresent, something that happened more than 6 years ago as your basis for shitcanning FL makes me wonder if you have some kind of personal agenda.

You'll also notice the (unattributed) quote you provided says "LIKELY due to eCogra etc"....in other words, it's supposition and assumption, which is unfair to FL as it suggests they were "forced" to pay players when it may well have not been the case.

I think you are mixing up something here Nifty. I never said anything about this 2007 case or misrepresented anything. That was another poster (but BTW, betfair happy hour promo is already 3 years old).

I just said I don't trust them. I based my assumptions on information available at GG and such. I consider GG to be a solid site, saying "if it doesn't exist on CM then I'm not acknowledging it" is fine and all. I prefer to have more info, not less.
I don't know if that last comment was directed to me or not. Personal snides will cause nothing but derail.

Anyone who follows my posts, will see I am generally skeptical when it comes to casinos. I'm not going to pat them on the shoulder if I don't feel they earned it One accredited casino here has a rule that max withdrawal can be 6x deposit at their discretion. I won't play there and this is my right - and I would expect others to respect it. These days you can't even say you don't trust a casino without being accused ...sheesh.

Edit: This is what Gambling Grumbles had to say about FL just 2 months ago:

"We have said it over and over and over again: Stay away from any casino which belongs to the Fortune Lounge Group. It doesn't matter if it is 7Sultans, Vegas Palms, Vegas Towers, Platinum Play, Desert Dollar, Royal Vegas, Poker Time, or Giggle Bingo -- don't play there.

Francisco S of Brighton, England, learned that lesson the hard way. He played at three Fortune Lounge casinos, getting a bonus each time, and winding up losing his deposits. Okay, he had no problem with that, gambling is gambling and you can always lose. What bothers Francisco (and Gambling Grumbles) is that when he played at Vegas Palms he won and it not only refused to give him his winnings but also kept his deposit."

 

[HofmannEs]

The OP has been betting 50 euros a spin which is forbidden in the bonus rules IF he was playing on a bonus which was still live at the time. This goes back 5 months according to him, so why the complaining now? If I was 'owed' 16k I'd be pissing in each and every corner within a few days if things seemed to be going wrong. Fortune Lounge are a decent group and I have had accounts at a few of their sites in the past, with no issues. I think we need the OP to tell us a bit more here. I personally suspect multiple accounting.

You didn't read the entire post, you missunderstood the whole situation and you have the nerve to blame me in the same time. What do you need to know more except things I already said? this discussion goes in a wrong direction!

 

[mimi26]

I think you are mixing up something here Nifty. I never said anything about this 2007 case or misrepresented anything. That was another poster (but BTW, betfair happy hour promo is already 3 years old).

I just said I don't trust them. I based my assumptions on information available at GG and such. I consider GG to be a solid site, saying "if it doesn't exist on CM then I'm not acknowledging it" is fine and all. I prefer to have more info, not less.
I don't know if that last comment was directed to me or not. Personal snides will cause nothing but derail.

Anyone who follows my posts, will see I am generally skeptical when it comes to casinos. I'm not going to pat them on the shoulder if I don't feel they earned it One accredited casino here has a rule that max withdrawal can be 6x deposit at their discretion. I won't play there and this is my right - and I would expect others to respect it. These days you can't even say you don't trust a casino without being accused ...sheesh.

Edit: This is what Gambling Grumbles had to say about FL just 2 months ago:

"We have said it over and over and over again: Stay away from any casino which belongs to the Fortune Lounge Group. It doesn't matter if it is 7Sultans, Vegas Palms, Vegas Towers, Platinum Play, Desert Dollar, Royal Vegas, Poker Time, or Giggle Bingo -- don't play there.

Francisco S of Brighton, England, learned that lesson the hard way. He played at three Fortune Lounge casinos, getting a bonus each time, and winding up losing his deposits. Okay, he had no problem with that, gambling is gambling and you can always lose. What bothers Francisco (and Gambling Grumbles) is that when he played at Vegas Palms he won and it not only refused to give him his winnings but also kept his deposit."

Ok derailing I know but what casino would that be, just so I can avoid it

 

[HofmannEs]

We still only have one side of the story but it does seem like a strange story.

The OP makes a deposit of 100 euros and reaches a balance of 3000. Then the OP proceeds to play it down to 2500 and make a first withdrawal request 5 months later?

Documents are sent as requested but a month after this the withdrawal still hasn't been processed but instead is returned to his casino balance and the OP continues to play. A month after the first request a second withdrawal is requested and two weeks later while the second request was still in process(?) the OP wins 16k and then the account is locked.

We still have no idea as to the real reason for the account being locked. A PAB would probably sort this out. It's entirely possible that the OP has done something that breaches the casinos terms of service but the time factors are the strange part. If there was some suspicion of fraud during the first withdrawal request the casino should have locked the account then, not returned the money to the player's account.

The questions I have are -

If there was a problem with the first withdrawal, why was the money sent back to the OP's account as playable funds?
If there was a problem with the first and second withdrawal why was the OP still allowed to continue playing at all?

To be honest it's probably best that the account remain locked until the withdrawal issues are sorted out. This doesn't give the OP the option of playing the entire 13k or whatever is left back while an investigation is in process. Either the OP's identification will be verified through the PAB process and he (or she) will be able to withdraw the full balance or the OP will be found in breach of the casino's terms in which case he (or she) shouldn't be playing any more anyway.

1.Between the date of my deposit and my first withdrawal I was playing at the casino.
2.I don't get strange the fact I requested my first withdrawal after 3 months and a half, I hope I didn't broke any T&C with that
3.Fortune Room casino has a slowly verification process and requested many documents in stages, isn't that strange?
4.I won't request a PAB, I would like to keep this public, but if Casinomeister would like to review documents, emails or something else I am willing to give them. I have nothing to hide and I am ready to confront Fortune Room rep here in front of you all.

 

[Nifty29]

1.Between the date of my deposit and my first withdrawal I was playing at the casino.
2.I don't get strange the fact I requested my first withdrawal after 3 months and a half, I hope I didn't broke any T&C with that
3.Fortune Room casino has a slowly verification process and requested many documents in stages, isn't that strange?
4.I won't request a PAB, I would like to keep this public, but if Casinomeister would like to review documents, emails or something else I am willing to give them. I have nothing to hide and I am ready to confront Fortune Room rep here in front of you all.

Sorry, but the fact that you refuse to PAB, but want to fight it out in public, is a HUGE red flag and tells me either:

1. You haven't been telling the whole story, and you know the casino won't post publicly with sensitive information, hence you'll win by default and/or by drumming up sympathy from the casino-bashers, OR

2. You're not serious about resolving your dispute, but would rather drag the casino through the mud in the forums, OR

3. Both

I think you'll find you will NOT be allowed to turn your "issue" into a forum fight with the casino rep and the mods, so you might want to give that some thought. You have been warned.

If I were totally innocent and was treated unfairly, I would be filing a PAB and clamming up and allow Max to give me a fair hearing. The only reason I'd avoid doing this is if I had something to hide.

 

[HofmannEs]

They simply have a higher volume of complaints than some other outfits out there. There's a lot of casinos available, and I tend to stick with those that don't have a history of player-casino issues.

For example, there's been only one complaint so far regarding Ladbrokes new casino and yet, I'm already a bit anxious. If I see plenty of complains then I'm no longer anxious - I just prefer to avoid such casino by default. You never know when you might hit that x1000 bet and I wouldn't want this to happen in one of FL casinos .

This was just a general remark, we don't know what happened in this case in particular. Although requesting more and more stuff from a player, rather that ask for everything in one batch will always create a bad impression. Casinos should ask for everything in one go : ID + photo of ID+face + notary + copy of CC + utility + whatever else, or if they have some other 'identifiers' they should just close the account right off the bat, rather than let alleged fraudster play while asking for stuff that won't make much difference anyway. That's how professional casinos should operate.

I find it a bit amusing that photo of a player holding his passport was supposed to be the ultimate solution to multiaccounting and now we see it doesn't really make any difference. Why don't they ask the player make a video of him walking down his street holding his passport, then walk into his house and show his account balance on his own computer. Cheaper than notary and much more solid in terms of proof

Sometimes people read the full post and have usefull opinions for this case.

If I was against their therms why my account wasn't blocked from the beginning?
They never close accounts after you loose all your balance, it never happened to me by now

 

[Nifty29]

Sometimes people read the full post and have usefull opinions for this case.

If I was against their therms why my account wasn't blocked from the beginning?
They never close accounts after you loose all your balance, it never happened to me by now

Ummm....yeah casinos DO close accounts if you LOSE if it's required.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they "didn't read your whole post".

 

[Mozaik]

I would really recommend you to file a PAB. If you claim to have been honest and have nothing to hide, and have no problem sharing any docs/info, then why wouldn't you?

Are you just going to wave the 13,500 euros goodbye? It just don't make sense from in that perspective.

 

[mimi26]

Sorry, but the fact that you refuse to PAB, but want to fight it out in public, is a HUGE red flag and tells me either:

1. You haven't been telling the whole story, and you know the casino won't post publicly with sensitive information, hence you'll win by default and/or by drumming up sympathy from the casino-bashers, OR

2. You're not serious about resolving your dispute, but would rather drag the casino through the mud in the forums, OR

3. Both

I think you'll find you will NOT be allowed to turn your "issue" into a forum fight with the casino rep and the mods, so you might want to give that some thought. You have been warned.

If I were totally innocent and was treated unfairly, I would be filing a PAB and clamming up and allow Max to give me a fair hearing. The only reason I'd avoid doing this is if I had something to hide.

Not necessarily Nifty, the OP may feel that he has been accused of being untruthful by some forum members so has decided to fight it out in public to prove his innocence. I am not saying this is the case but I can see it from this perspective also. Its extremely frustrating when people dont believe you or have doubts when you know you are being truthful.



edited to add: If it was me I would file a PAB

 

[Nifty29]

Not necessarily Nifty, the OP may feel that he has been accused of being untruthful by some forum members so has decided to fight it out in public to prove his innocence. I am not saying this is the case but I can see it from this perspective also. Its extremely frustrating when people dont believe you or have doubts when you know you are being truthful.



edited to add: If it was me I would file a PAB

Sorry, but I don't buy that.

If the PAB goes in their favour, then they will be vindicated anyway.

If they're honest, the end result will be that everyone will know.

Trust me. I've seen this sort of things dozens of times, and there is always a reason for the OP not filing a PAB, and it's got nothing to do with "proving they're honest etc"....that's what the PAB is for!

 

[Sovietsky]

Do a PAB or else it will just be a speculation thread wich will lead nowhere and thread will be closed.

 

[mimi26]

Sorry, but I don't buy that.

If the PAB goes in their favour, then they will be vindicated anyway.

If they're honest, the end result will be that everyone will know.

Trust me. I've seen this sort of things dozens of times, and there is always a reason for the OP not filing a PAB, and it's got nothing to do with "proving they're honest etc"....that's what the PAB is for!

we will have to agree to disagree here. If the OP wants to fight it out with the rep here I see harm in that, (as long as things are kept within forum rules), myself I would file a PAB maybe some dont have any faith in them, I dont know why though I thinks its a great FREE service and I would not hesitate to use it. People have their reasons, I would like to know the OPs for not using the PAB though

 

[Sovietsky]

we will have to agree to disagree here. If the OP wants to fight it out with the rep here I see harm in that, (as long as things are kept within forum rules), myself I would file a PAB maybe some dont have any faith in them, I dont know why though I thinks its a great FREE service and I would not hesitate to use it. People have their reasons, I would like to know the OPs for not using the PAB though

When you make a PAB then everything comes out so I wonder what is he hidding? You can't just start a thread saying casino X is bad and not providing anything.

 

[Nifty29]

we will have to agree to disagree here. If the OP wants to fight it out with the rep here I see harm in that, (as long as things are kept within forum rules), myself I would file a PAB maybe some dont have any faith in them, I dont know why though I thinks its a great FREE service and I would not hesitate to use it. People have their reasons, I would like to know the OPs for not using the PAB though

"Fighting" issues out with reps in public has never been allowed by the mods....and rightly so.

The choice is clear.....if you have a complaint, contact the rep via PM and/or submit a PAB. Otherwise, you will get nowhere fast.

Casinos will not provide sensitive information and evidence in public....it just serves to help the fraudsters improve their skills. Still, I'm sure the OP knows this..it's why some players WANT to make it public I.e. because they know the casinos hands are tied and they can say what they like and not be able to be proven wrong.

Still, it's your opinion.

 

[mimi26]

"Fighting" issues out with reps in public has never been allowed by the mods....and rightly so.

The choice is clear.....if you have a complaint, contact the rep via PM and/or submit a PAB. Otherwise, you will get nowhere fast.

Casinos will not provide sensitive information and evidence in public....it just serves to help the fraudsters improve their skills. Still, I'm sure the OP knows this..it's why some players WANT to make it public I.e. because they know the casinos hands are tied and they can say what they like and not be able to be proven wrong.

Still, it's your opinion.

That goes both ways though does it not, casinos having the final say, tough luck, you re not getting your money.

Anyway I am not going to get into a debate about the PAB service, thats up to the OP to decide, as you can see I am not as well informed as you and maybe that applies to the OP too. But I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt before I call their stories bullshit

 

[Sovietsky]

That goes both ways though does it not, casinos having the final say, tough luck, you re not getting your money.

Anyway I am not going to get into a debate about the PAB service, thats up to the OP to decide, as you can see I am not as well informed as you and maybe that applies to the OP too. But I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt before I call their stories bullshit

I agree and I usally wait and read before I start posting but whenever the OP don't want to make a PAB then the whole thread was just a waste of time imo.

 

[mimi26]

I agree and I usally wait and read before I start posting but whenever the OP don't want to make a PAB then the whole thread was just a waste of time imo.

Yep I get where you are coming from, but maybe they think the rep will just sort it out.

Anyway come back OP we want to know why you dont want to PAB

 

[HofmannEs]

Sorry, but the fact that you refuse to PAB, but want to fight it out in public, is a HUGE red flag and tells me either:

1. You haven't been telling the whole story, and you know the casino won't post publicly with sensitive information, hence you'll win by default and/or by drumming up sympathy from the casino-bashers, OR

2. You're not serious about resolving your dispute, but would rather drag the casino through the mud in the forums, OR

3. Both

I think you'll find you will NOT be allowed to turn your "issue" into a forum fight with the casino rep and the mods, so you might want to give that some thought. You have been warned.

If I were totally innocent and was treated unfairly, I would be filing a PAB and clamming up and allow Max to give me a fair hearing. The only reason I'd avoid doing this is if I had something to hide.

1.Nifty29, you want to say that a public process it's less transparent and impartial than a private one without witnesses....OK no need to answer to that, it's clear for me
2."You haven't been telling the whole story, and you know the casino won't post publicly with sensitive information", there are no sensitive information, but please give a few examples of what means 'sensitive' informations regarding me or the casino in this case.
As I said I am willing to provide any info, documents and mail to Casinomeister rep.Fortune Room must show the REASON they closed my account because I know they have no real reason for doing that. And some people here are blaming without requesting the casinos rep opinion, just blaming and nothing more.
3.Nifty29 how you don't question yourself when casino request so much documents in stages and doesn't give any response, so I need to contact them to know what happend with the documents and the next e-mail is : "send more documents".

Trial: "In law, a trial is a coming together of parties to a dispute, to present information (in the form of evidence) in a tribunal, a formal setting with the authority to adjudicate claims or disputes. One form of tribunal is a court. The tribunal, which may occur before a judge, jury, or other designated trier of fact, aims to achieve a resolution to their dispute."

 

[mimi26]

1.Nifty29, you want to say that a public process it's less transparent and impartial than a private one without witnesses....OK no need to answer to that, it's clear for me
2."You haven't been telling the whole story, and you know the casino won't post publicly with sensitive information", there are no sensitive information, but please give a few examples of what means 'sensitive' informations regarding me or the casino in this case.
As I said I am willing to provide any info, documents and mail to Casinomeister rep.Fortune Room must show the REASON they closed my account because I know they have no real reason for doing that. And some people here are blaming without requesting the casinos rep opinion, just blaming and nothing more.
3.Nifty29 how you don't question yourself when casino request so much documents in stages and doesn't give any response, so I need to contact them to know what happend with the documents and the next e-mail is : "send more documents".

Trial: "In law, a trial is a coming together of parties to a dispute, to present information (in the form of evidence) in a tribunal, a formal setting with the authority to adjudicate claims or disputes. One form of tribunal is a court. The tribunal, which may occur before a judge, jury, or other designated trier of fact, aims to achieve a resolution to their dispute."

You may as well just do a PAB then because basically that is what it is, you make the complaint and provide the evidence

 

[HofmannEs]

With a PAB or without a PAB, in the end only the Casino decides if I'll be payed or not.
Someone said I am willing to drag the casino in mud ... I suspect some people here have some interests as long as they make such accusations.... How can a guy fight a multimilion company ?!?

I am still waiting the Fortune Lounge representative response to my private message.

 

[bsilva028]

With a PAB or without a PAB, in the end only the Casino decides if I'll be payed or not.
Someone said I am willing to drag the casino in mud ... I suspect some people here have some interests as long as they make such accusations.... How can a guy fight a multimilion company ?!?

I am still waiting the Fortune Lounge representative response to my private message.

when you sent the message?
i have contacted the rep a few times (not because of complaints fortunaly) and usually i was answered in 24 hours or less

also i have sent them my docs this year and in the same day i´ve got thee answer it was aproved

if you have 100% sure that you are correct, without broke any terms, without have multiple accounts etc, PAB the case.
in case if you win, everyone will know
in case if you loose, everyone will know also

i think you should do that.
but read all the pab rules 1st

 

[Mozaik]

I think in this case it might be useful if someone who is German explains to him what the PAB service actually is. I'm suspecting English isn't the first language of the OP and might not totally understand what benefit the PAB service can have during a dispute with another casino.

Like other members pointed out, if you have no problem co-operating and showing evidence/docs/mails/screenshots etc. Then basically it serves the same purpose as a PAB.