Help!! Historic complaint 32red

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
What did you ask for?
I would be asking for
Copy of all correspondence to include : emails, live chat transcripts, any notes made during/after telephone interaction (assuming there was any phone calls)
Copy of all manual notes made on your account from opening.
List of transactions since account opening, to include deposits and withdrawals, net profit/loss of the account, full gaming history is not required.

Thanks for this I requested :-

In the meantime I wish to make a Subject Access Request (SAR) for all the personal information you hold about me including, but not limited to my accounts deposits and withdrawals, all live chat transcripts, emails, recordings of any phone calls.

Only thing I could have missed them is manual notes I will email to ensure they are included.
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
oh and just for the record, you mentioned small claims in your first post, that is most likely why Mark hasn't responded, I wouldn't either if I thought it might end up in court.

Oh I see. My hope Is the GC will be able to be confirm the breach and in turn ADRs will deal as per their website (via complaints on social responsibility)
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
Hi @Ss8499,

Just a brief courtesy note to say that as this is going through our internal complaints procedure, I'm not in a position to comment I'm afraid.

Regards,
Mark

It’s already gone through internal complaints procedure as of today I received final response. To which they are still denying any wrong doing. Which somewhat surprised me.

As per above posts am now going to wait for what the gambling commission have to say.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
I might be missing some obvious point now why this all look quite stupid for me, what steps i'm missing_

- Self-Exclusion requested years ago, at the time there was form to fill like we all know, you decided not to do it (i don't have printer but if i need something printed, i can get it done really fast when needed but instead didn't do anything, not really severe gambling problem where you do everything possible to help yourself).

- At later stage self-exclusion asked again, form not needed anymore but email sent to wrong email address (never bothered to contact casino? If not getting reply to email, quite normal is assume it haven't been delivered to right place, normally would chase it up and ask, especially if you are seriously addicted and want to get things sorted, they even had chat at the time did they? Could have quickly ask if email is received and if now, try to get things sorted)

- Then naturally account is still open because self-exclusion not completed but just left how it was, then when realize that self-exclusion is not there, instead of contacting casinos, starting to deposit and lose. Then when realize that losing is still not nice like it wasn't before, will ask deposits back.

Dunno which court you planning to go and find some obvious failure, process was how it was by the time, there were multiple options to get self-exclusion active but filling form or following up email was too much to do and just left everything how it was. Your claim is that because you have asked self-exclusion and casino have provided you tools to do it but you haven't done it, they should have known that you still wanna do it even you didn't wanna complete it.

I guess best UKGC could do would be to increase age needed for gambling to be above 50 and see if that would anyhow decrease amounts of "Casino should have been seen i have gambling problem but they didn't and failed to protect me and i'm so vulnerable that i couldn't do anything myself" complaints or maybe mandatory "Gambler License" provided by UKGC what all would need to get before allowed to single deposit, all would be aware that gambling can lead losing money which is not nice if can't control how much is able to lose etc.... and with that license everyone would have agreed to be grown up people and take responsibilities from own actions, instead of willing afterward remove all responsibilities to other parties can get compensated about own doings.
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
I don’t even feel this deserves a reply you clearly are not an advocate for responsible gambling. You also clearly nothing about gambling addition. The fact is they should have closed my account as I requested several times for it be closed and for me to be excluded. The onus wasn’t on me to go around searching for a printer I’d provided enough information to confirm my addiction. Also you are suggesting the onus is on me to chase emails requesting again that my account is closed? Do you think someone who is addicted to gambling would do all this ? I’m essentially trying to stop myself from something I actually want to do. The last thing a gambler needs is to be given numerous hurdles to jump before they are excluded.

Whilst I understand that I have to take responsibility for my actions, the casinos also have responsibilities too.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I guess best UKGC could do would be to increase age needed for gambling to be above 50 and see if that would anyhow decrease amounts of "Casino should have been seen i have gambling problem but they didn't and failed to protect me and i'm so vulnerable that i couldn't do anything myself" complaints or maybe mandatory "Gambler License" provided by UKGC what all would need to get before allowed to single deposit, all would be aware that gambling can lead losing money which is not nice if can't control how much is able to lose etc.... and with that license everyone would have agreed to be grown up people and take responsibilities from own actions, instead of willing afterward remove all responsibilities to other parties can get compensated about own doings.
Being honest, that is rather belittling to the OP.
The fact is, certainly around that time, 32Red/Roxy Palace were not good with Self Exclusions. There were many threads on here (a couple I linked to above) where people had asked to be SE'd and they didn't do it. Thats not needing the casino to spot a potential problem gambler, but someone telling them 'I have a problem, PLEASE self exclude me'.
Their SE policy stank, and personally I can't believe they remained accredited the way they acted. Pretty much everyone who posted in the (extremely long) thread about it, thought what they were doing was wrong.
That was backed up by the £2 million penalty they got for failings during that period.
Regarding him not following up after not getting a response to an email he sent, assuming he is correct in what he says, what sort of major company closes an email address and immediately ceases monitoring it?
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

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May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
Hi Colin,

“Regarding him not following up after not getting a response to an email he sent, assuming he is correct in what he says, what sort of major company closes an email address and immediately ceases monitoring it?”

The email address was set up to send auto replies to anyone who emailed it to advise them to use our new help centre. This was introduced so we could deal with queries quicker and track progress rather than the old way of doing things with many reps sharing one inbox.

I can also confirm live chat was available throughout the period as well as a free phone telephone number manned 24/7.

Regards
Mark
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Hi Colin,

“Regarding him not following up after not getting a response to an email he sent, assuming he is correct in what he says, what sort of major company closes an email address and immediately ceases monitoring it?”

The email address was set up to send auto replies to anyone who emailed it to advise them to use our new help centre. This was introduced so we could deal with queries quicker and track progress rather than the old way of doing things with many reps sharing one inbox.

I can also confirm live chat was available throughout the period as well as a free phone telephone number manned 24/7.

Regards
Mark

Surely you checked the emails though? Auto response emails are notoriously bad for being picked up as spam, and your help centre wasn't exactly easy to navigate.
Regardless of that, I do think he should have followed it up, emails get lost too, so for all he knows, you didn't get it.
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
Surely you checked the emails though? Auto response emails are notoriously bad for being picked up as spam, and your help centre wasn't exactly easy to navigate.
Regardless of that, I do think he should have followed it up, emails get lost too, so for all he knows, you didn't get it.

To be completely honest I don’t know if they were monitored, it was a big process change for us and I’m sure we did operate the old and new system in tandem for a while after removing the email address off the site.

Genuine question to Ss849 and I should probably say this is without prejudice to any case and my own personal question (I don’t know any details of your situation, just a name on a forum) - at any point did you tell the support team you were not able to complete the form? I’m sure despite the different way of working back then it may have made a difference.

Mark
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
Hi Colin,

“Regarding him not following up after not getting a response to an email he sent, assuming he is correct in what he says, what sort of major company closes an email address and immediately ceases monitoring it?”

The email address was set up to send auto replies to anyone who emailed it to advise them to use our new help centre. This was introduced so we could deal with queries quicker and track progress rather than the old way of doing things with many reps sharing one inbox.

I can also confirm live chat was available throughout the period as well as a free phone telephone number manned 24/7.

Regards
Mark
I received no bounce back from this email I sent on 3rd April.
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
To be completely honest I don’t know if they were monitored, it was a big process change for us and I’m sure we did operate the old and new system in tandem for a while after removing the email address off the site.

Genuine question to Ss849 and I should probably say this is without prejudice to any case and my own personal question (I don’t know any details of your situation, just a name on a forum) - at any point did you tell the support team you were not able to complete the form? I’m sure despite the different way of working back then it may have made a difference.

Mark

I did! On probably the third occasion of me moaning about excluding they gave me a link to follow. The link didn’t work and I advised you of this. I honestly at one point thought this is impossible.

I tried and tried and tried again but was given hoop after hoop to jump through. It was made so hard and Im glad your practices have probably now changed but that does not negate from the bad conduct previously.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Being honest, that is rather belittling to the OP.
The fact is, certainly around that time, 32Red/Roxy Palace were not good with Self Exclusions. There were many threads on here (a couple I linked to above) where people had asked to be SE'd and they didn't do it. Thats not needing the casino to spot a potential problem gambler, but someone telling them 'I have a problem, PLEASE self exclude me'.
Their SE policy stank, and personally I can't believe they remained accredited the way they acted. Pretty much everyone who posted in the (extremely long) thread about it, thought what they were doing was wrong.
That was backed up by the £2 million penalty they got for failings during that period.
Regarding him not following up after not getting a response to an email he sent, assuming he is correct in what he says, what sort of major company closes an email address and immediately ceases monitoring it?

Sure that process sucked and have changed, still it feels weird that grown up person couldn't get self-excluded even after that form wasn't needed anymore and still to date OP haven't bothered to register Gamstop which would solve loads of problems if the problem is so severe that have 0 control to own doings.

95% of these complaints what we read here would have been quite easy to sort by player, if can't get casino account self-excluded (even it would need form, which it didn't anymore afterwards when OP tried again), i don't understand how these same people survive with everyday life, that's why suggestion to increase age of gambling or make it mandatory course you have to pass to learn that losing all your money is not nice.

Responsible gaming also include some responsibilities about own actions, if OP would have wanted to be self-excluded back then hard as now willing to get deposits back, i'm sure it would have worked out, especially after that form was not needed but if that's too much to contact casino and make sure message has been received and acted, then it is. If i would want to stop my contract with anything, mobile, internet or what so ever, i most probably email to them but if not hearing back, for sure will follow it up until i get it done, all companies i have customer relationship will reply to your email and confirm something is done, if not receiving that email (and obviously in this case it's really easy to see if account is open or not) about it, for sure would contact them (instead of playing away all my money when can access to account).

Just have ran out of sympathy for these sob stories where whole world have been stopping somebody from self-excluding casino account even tried so hard and now afterwards it would be nice to get refunded. Every single refund just create 10 new ones, happy that UKGC opinion is quite a lot against refunds but instead giving penalties to operators which is way better than refunding these stories.
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
I did! On probably the third occasion of me moaning about excluding they gave me a link to follow. The link didn’t work and I advised you of this. I honestly at one point thought this is impossible.

I tried and tried and tried again but was given hoop after hoop to jump through. It was made so hard and Im glad your practices have probably now changed but that does not negate from the bad conduct previously.

Again, without prejudice (I am sure our legal team would appreciate that) I’m not going to get into a debate on what was good and bad conduct but I know the escalation procedure looks at key terminology used and the processes/options offered as well as other things. As I say, I don’t know who you are so can only take your word for it that you reached out and said you couldn’t complete the form etc etc.

I’m obviously going to be biased even though this is my personal opinion but based on my experience (since the UKGC ruling went public we’ve obviously had other requests for historical refunds which I’ve had limited view of) I’ve got confidence that if a manager has reviewed your complaint on the complaints procedure and still advised you to go to an ADR then we (they) must be happy with the investigation and processes at the time.

I personally wish you the best of luck with the ADR and hopefully when the SAR comes back it may bring up correspondence to either help with your case or remind you of the interactions you had.

Mark
 
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Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
Oh god. These aren’t sob stories. There are real people with real addiction issues. Issues which have been taken advantage of by predatory casinos.

You seem to feel it’s Gambling addiction some sort of joke. Let me assure you it is not.


Sure that process sucked and have changed, still it feels weird that grown up person couldn't get self-excluded even after that form wasn't needed anymore and still to date OP haven't bothered to register Gamstop which would solve loads of problems if the problem is so severe that have 0 control to own doings.

95% of these complaints what we read here would have been quite easy to sort by player, if can't get casino account self-excluded (even it would need form, which it didn't anymore afterwards when OP tried again), i don't understand how these same people survive with everyday life, that's why suggestion to increase age of gambling or make it mandatory course you have to pass to learn that losing all your money is not nice.

Responsible gaming also include some responsibilities about own actions, if OP would have wanted to be self-excluded back then hard as now willing to get deposits back, i'm sure it would have worked out, especially after that form was not needed but if that's too much to contact casino and make sure message has been received and acted, then it is. If i would want to stop my contract with anything, mobile, internet or what so ever, i most probably email to them but if not hearing back, for sure will follow it up until i get it done, all companies i have customer relationship will reply to your email and confirm something is done, if not receiving that email (and obviously in this case it's really easy to see if account is open or not) about it, for sure would contact them (instead of playing away all my money when can access to account).

Just have ran out of sympathy for these sob stories where whole world have been stopping somebody from self-excluding casino account even tried so hard and now afterwards it would be nice to get refunded. Every single refund just create 10 new ones, happy that UKGC opinion is quite a lot against refunds but instead giving penalties to operators which is way better than refunding these stories.
Believe it or not too when I sent these various emails and live chat requests I didn’t always have the time to chase or follow up. I thought an email or conversation stating I was out of control and had a gambling problem and various explicit requests would be enough.

Question for you ma
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
Whilst I appreciate your response it’s quite clear you are trying to say my case insinuate my case is not as I have explained. I can assure you it is.

Question for you ....are you confident 32red treated vulnerable players/problem gamblers during those years ? Your fine would suggest otherwise yet you still seem to want to defend your policy decisions.


M
Again, without prejudice (I am sure our legal team would appreciate that) I’m not going to get into a debate on what was good and bad conduct but I know the escalation procedure looks at key terminology used and the processes/options offered as well as other things. As I say, I don’t know who you are so can only take your word for it that you reached out and said you couldn’t complete the form.

I’m obviously going to be biased even though this is my personal opinion but based on my experience (since the UKGC ruling went public we’ve obviously had other requests for historical refunds which I’ve had limited view of) I’ve got confidence that if a manager has reviewed your complaint on the complaints procedure and still advised you to go to an ADR then we (they) must be happy with the investigation and processes at the time.

I personally wish you the best of luck with the ADR and hopefully when the SAR comes back it may bring up correspondence to either help with your case or remind you of the interactions you had.

Mark
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
Question for you ....are you confident 32red treated vulnerable players/problem gamblers during those years ? Your fine would suggest otherwise yet you still seem to want to defend your policy decisions.

Let me simply share the BBC article covering the UKGC decision and penalty payment (not fine).

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Digest the article as you see fit.

Mark
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Oh god. These aren’t sob stories. There are real people with real addiction issues. Issues which have been taken advantage of by predatory casinos.

You seem to feel it’s Gambling addiction some sort of joke. Let me assure you it is not.



Believe it or not too when I sent these various emails and live chat requests I didn’t always have the time to chase or follow up. I thought an email or conversation stating I was out of control and had a gambling problem and various explicit requests would be enough.

Question for you ma

If you would have been this serious with your problem, you would have been self-excluded years ago, with this same effort you have spent trying to get your deposits back, you would have bought one printer and print that paper but then of course even following up one email was too time consuming but now suddenly there's all the time in the world to contact different places to try to get money back.

If person have bad addcition, i do have loads of sympathy if person is trying to do something for it but obviously is not really bad if it wasn't worth to self-exclude from gambling, even through Gamstop.

Wonder why any badly addicted person never come to forums ask help to get self-excluded widely as possible but skipping that step and prefering to try freeroll afterwards instead. You would have got loads of help if you would have been interested to help yourself, many help organizations would have been helping you with self-exclusions etc....

Casino had fcked up system yes, but there is no perfect parts in this story so would be worth much more to work with your addiction instead of fighting with casino and hang in gambling forums to get whole thing to your head again. Hope you have at least by now register to Gamstop and done something more for your addiction than sob story claims for casinos.
 

Ss8499

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Location
Manchester
Whilst you are all for individual responsibility, which I actually agree with. I fully take responsibility for my part but in this situation the casino had a responsibility too. This policy was clearly in place to try and stop problem gamblers from self-excluding and If you think anything else you are deluded.

I look back and am angry at their conduct which I am allowed to be. I rarely complain about anything as llike I say I agree some of it is personal responsibility. But this was different I was begging they let me stop depositing. They had a responsibility too.

You are criticising me for being on a forum explaining MY complaint and addiction. It’s you that clearly has a weird issue ‘hanging’ around a forum to try and dismiss someone’s addiction and complaint.

QUOTE="Slottery, post: 1170012, member: 45362"]
If you would have been this serious with your problem, you would have been self-excluded years ago, with this same effort you have spent trying to get your deposits back, you would have bought one printer and print that paper but then of course even following up one email was too time consuming but now suddenly there's all the time in the world to contact different places to try to get money back.

If person have bad addcition, i do have loads of sympathy if person is trying to do something for it but obviously is not really bad if it wasn't worth to self-exclude from gambling, even through Gamstop.

Wonder why any badly addicted person never come to forums ask help to get self-excluded widely as possible but skipping that step and prefering to try freeroll afterwards instead. You would have got loads of help if you would have been interested to help yourself, many help organizations would have been helping you with self-exclusions etc....

Casino had fcked up system yes, but there is no perfect parts in this story so would be worth much more to work with your addiction instead of fighting with casino and hang in gambling forums to get whole thing to your head again. Hope you have at least by now register to Gamstop and done something more for your addiction than sob story claims for casinos.
[/QUOTE]


Let me simply share the BBC article covering the UKGC decision and penalty payment (not fine).

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Digest the article as you see fit.

Mark
 
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