Roguish Grand Duke Not Paying £7200 BJ Winnings Due to 'System'!

[Casinomeister]

BTW (and this is directed toward Grand Duke's Casino) a retraction needs to be made over at the GPWA asap. Thank you.

 

[jackieonweb]

God they are digging themselves deeper into a their hole aren't they?

Would just like to say thanks to Max for trying for me. They are now where they deserve, in the pit.

 

[jackieonweb]

They asked me to send off my notarized ID to the Philippines, so I replied asking if they had changed their mind on paying me.. they replied saying my account would be checked after they had received my ID.

So I asked them the same question again.... this repeated about 5 times until I gave up. Their incompetence has no bounds.

 

[Seventh777]

They asked me to send off my notarized ID to the Philippines, so I replied asking if they had changed their mind on paying me.. they replied saying my account would be checked after they had received my ID.

So I asked them the same question again.... this repeated about 5 times until I gave up. Their incompetence has no bounds.

What has player ID got to do with *cheating the system*?, this sickens me, now imagine if you were the average player whom had no knowledge of this website etc, you would now be in the situation of probably believing that you had done something wrong, and gave up on perfectly legit winnings.

Once again, good luck with getting your money.

P.S.

If this incident hasn`t put you off online gambling for life, stick to the casinos that you see here on the accredited list, believe me the likes of 32Red, 3Dice etc are as good as the others are bad .

 

[vinylweatherman]

They asked me to send off my notarized ID to the Philippines, so I replied asking if they had changed their mind on paying me.. they replied saying my account would be checked after they had received my ID.

So I asked them the same question again.... this repeated about 5 times until I gave up. Their incompetence has no bounds.

It's time this was properly investigated. What has the philipines got to do with a casino licensed in the EU, regardless of whether this outfit can be trusted to handle these documents.
Also this is NOT Playtech, and this is by their own admission.

How come EVERY Playtech asks suspected frauds to send these documents to the Philipines. I can't see every operator independently coming to the decision to choose the same Philipines based security company given how many other, and EU based ones at that, are available to the industry.

I suspect this is where the "Playtech bonus abusers blacklist" lies. This Philipines company is not Playtech, but quite clearly handles player data from all Playtech operators. It would not be too hard for them to operate a service whereby they make available a list containing the names of players bonus banned at one Playtech group to other Playtech operators.

Hence, we see things like this:-

They labeled me a serious bonus abuser without any reason. Didn't even get a chance to deposit.Them saying they have enough material to back the accusations up would probably mean Playtech's network wide bonus ban/ listings...sorry, Integra, probably a false positive cause those Playtech listings are total bs.

What has player ID got to do with *cheating the system*?, this sickens me, now imagine if you were the average player whom had no knowledge of this website etc, you would now be in the situation of probably believing that you had done something wrong, and gave up on perfectly legit winnings.

Once again, good luck with getting your money.

P.S.

If this incident hasn`t put you off online gambling for life, stick to the casinos that you see here on the accredited list, believe me the likes of 32Red, 3Dice etc are as good as the others are bad .

It looks like they are now fishing for another excuse not to pay now that they have dug themselves into a pit over this "system" excuse.

No doubt, the documents will end up failing verification, and they will switch to accusing the OP of fraud, and not paying on those grounds.
They may also be playing on the fears of sending such sensitive information abroad, and thus hoping the player will walk away.

This is £7K though, not £100, and is quite an incentive to jump through the hoops.

I would suggest complying with the request, waiting for a conclusion to be reached, and then grassing this company up to Trading Standards and the Information Commissioner's office in order to "seek an official view" of an EU based outfit demanding their customers directly send their documents to a security company in the Philipines.

With the Philipines not being a member of the EU, the officials will wonder why an EU based security company is not being used, which at least would be subject to EU wide regulations on the handling of personal information.

 

[Seventh777]

It looks like they are now fishing for another excuse not to pay now that they have dug themselves into a pit over this "system" excuse.

No doubt, the documents will end up failing verification, and they will switch to accusing the OP of fraud, and not paying on those grounds.
They may also be playing on the fears of sending such sensitive information abroad, and thus hoping the player will walk away.

This is £7K though, not £100, and is quite an incentive to jump through the hoops.

I would suggest complying with the request, waiting for a conclusion to be reached, and then grassing this company up to Trading Standards and the Information Commissioner's office in order to "seek an official view" of an EU based outfit demanding their customers directly send their documents to a security company in the Philipines.

With the Philipines not being a member of the EU, the officials will wonder why an EU based security company is not being used, which at least would be subject to EU wide regulations on the handling of personal information.

My thoughts entirely, this stinks of insider information and some form of bonus abusing player blacklist, on a side note however it is great to see the various web masters and affiliate web site owners removing this casino from their site until further notice, mucho kudos and hats off to you guys for this .

I personally would like to see a complete overhaul of the PJP payouts, whenever I read something bad about a Playtech casino I think of the poor guy whom was robbed of his PJP winnings, imagine the scenario and this goes for every software casino out there that has PJP games.......

We all know these are hard times, no doubting that, casinos are closing down at an alarming rate, hell even MGS ones are suffering to the extent that roughly 20%-30% of MGS casinos are now owned by the Casino Rewards group, so, back to the plot, you have sunk every penny, cent, dime you own into your casino, your house is re mortgaged to the hilt, you`ve sold your wife and kids on E-bay, you are upto your neck in debt, you are going under, you have lost everything, then boom one of your players just hit a 2 million jackpot and the cash is there, in your casino`s bank, what ya gonna do?.

These jackpots should be paid to the winner, directly from the software company that provides them, period, how do we know that there are not a few sinister evil minded casino managers out there just waiting for this to happen?, certain groups increasing in size to increase the chances of one being hit in one of their casinos, in today`s present climate these PJP`s and their payout protocols need a complete overhaul imho.

 

[Mousey]

They asked me to send off my notarized ID to the Philippines, so I replied asking if they had changed their mind on paying me.. they replied saying my account would be checked after they had received my ID.

So I asked them the same question again.... this repeated about 5 times until I gave up. Their incompetence has no bounds.

Personally, I wouldn't send them squat without confering with Maxd or Bryan first.

And please be sure to keep safe copies of every communication with them.

This situation grows more smelly every day....

 

[jackieonweb]

They said on the other forum that they discussed the issue with you this morning Bryan... is that true?

 

[Casinomeister]

They said on the other forum that they discussed the issue with you this morning Bryan... is that true?

Yes, we spoke this morning, and here is a statement from the casino:

After reading the threads regarding this players situation, we felt that the issue should be addressed in full on CM.

There were several points in the thread which we would like to address:

1.It seems that what primarily set everyone off here was the use of the word "systems". In this case the term "strategy" would have better been applied.

2. The player in question was flagged for more than one reason.

3. The reason we did not address this forum immediately is due to two separate reasons:
*As a policy, we do not release any of our clients personal information in public forums.
*We did not hear from anyone at CM until earlier today. Before replying, we felt that we should discuss this with Bryan.

4. Bryan was kind enough to listen to our reasoning behind the decision, and also explained his point of view on the issue.

5. Despite our belief in the decision we made regarding this player not being eligible for withdrawal, at the request of Bryan, who made some valid points during our conversation, we will release the funds to this player once proper documentation has been provided.(Thus far it has not been provided)

6. We will continue to uphold a ZERO Tolerance policy towards bonus abusers and fraudulent players.

In essence, there was probably a breakdown of communication between the casino support and the upper management since we were in contact with the casino last week. I explained that the "systems" terminology was the key phrase and topic that got them a fast-track ticket into the rogue pit. Since the casino operators agree that the term was used in error and are willing to settle this issue in a fair manner, I'm willing to pull the rogue listing.

I explained that advantage players are par for the course in this industry; as long as there are bonus offers, advantage players will be there playing to win. If an operator doesn't like the way a person is playing - by all means - it's the casinos right to close the player's account. But the player should be paid any winnings earned up to that point. This is standard amongst most casinos, at least the ones listed in the Accredited Section.

So - as soon as the player sends off the requested paperwork, and it's approved, she should be paid.

 

[jetset]

That Grand Duke statement smacks of spin, spin, spin....and I don't mean the free gambling kind!

All's well that ends well (for the player in this case) but my personal perception is that they tried to pull a fast one, and I wouldn't go near 'em after this example of their integrity.

 

[Repro]

That Grand Duke statement smacks of spin, spin, spin....and I don't mean the free gambling kind!

All's well that ends well (for the player in this case) but my personal perception is that they tried to pull a fast one, and I wouldn't go near 'em after this example of their integrity.

I agree. My feeling is they just got caught redhanded and doing some damagecontrol right now.

I wouldn't play there.

 

[heador112]

The player should be paid if he can pass the following security checks :

1. Notarised ID (looks like there is already a request)

2. A Picture of him holding his/her Passport/ ID in the hand .

3.If the player depositet with moneybookers or Neteller check with their security department if there are P2P to other players from his account which have claimed your bonuses .


If the player can pass all these checks , the chance that he/she is a fraudster is very small and Grand Duke should pay the money .

 

[jackieonweb]

Ah well this is a turn up... cheers Bryan/Max

So I just need to get my photo ID notarized? I can do this at the post office, can't I?

If/When they pay me, I will donate £300 to a charity of Max's/Bryan's choice

 

[heador112]

Dont think so . You can do it at the police station .

 

[CasinoBeacon]

It's great that the player is going to be paid. It's the only fair result. If I was Grand Duke, I'd be chucking in a chunky 'sorry about that' bonus and hoping to salvage what's left of their reputation. I don't care if the player used a 'strategy' or not. If they did, fair play to them for trying to win at GAMBLING, which is always in the house's favour.

This entire episode makes me ashamed to be an online casino affiliate. It smacks of the bad old days.

 

[chuchu59]

Ah, the might of the CM forum. I am proud to be a small part of it. Kudos Bryan and Max.

 

[Casinomeister]

Ah well this is a turn up... cheers Bryan/Max

So I just need to get my photo ID notarized? I can do this at the post office, can't I?

If/When they pay me, I will donate £300 to a charity of Max's/Bryan's choice

You need to send whatever they need to their support office in the Philippines. As soon as everything is good to go, I'm sure you'll get paid.

 

[GrandMaster]

Ah well this is a turn up... cheers Bryan/Max

So I just need to get my photo ID notarized? I can do this at the post office, can't I?

If/When they pay me, I will donate £300 to a charity of Max's/Bryan's choice

If they really want it notarised, rather than merely certified, you will need to go to a notary public.

 

[Nifty29]

Good point GM.

Notarization is a PITA.....and can be expensive.

 

[baldidiot]

So I just need to get my photo ID notarized? I can do this at the post office, can't I?

Most do ID checking (certification), not strictly notarized but I have used it in the passed when registering a company - if it's good enough for that... You can check your nearest branch here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Costs around £8 I think, off the top of my head.

Glad you're getting paid!

 

[vinylweatherman]

That Grand Duke statement smacks of spin, spin, spin....and I don't mean the free gambling kind!

All's well that ends well (for the player in this case) but my personal perception is that they tried to pull a fast one, and I wouldn't go near 'em after this example of their integrity.

They clearly MEANT "system", as they went on to expand by saying that the play contained signs of "Paroli......".

It's like saying "Martingale system", and then trying to say, "sorry for the misunderstanding, we meant to say Martingale strategy".

The "strategy" in this case seems to have been flat betting a very chunky £200 per hand, which is not even a STRATEGY, let alone a system. I think this claim that even flat betting is a "banned abusive strategy" would cover 99% of Blackjack players.

It seems nothing more than the fact that this player "gambled sensibly", and withdrew their profit, rather than going "on tilt" and losing it all back.

If they don't like players making such large bets on Blackjack, they should prohibit it in the terms and conditions.

If they only want slots play on bonuses, then say so in the offer and the terms, and make all non-slot games an exclusion with these bonuses.

One sign that they have learned from this is if they have ensured this can never happen again through plugging this loophole in the terms.

If they still have the old terms, having made their "zero tolerance" view clear, it is nothing less than predatory to continue to give the impression that play on Blackjack is still allowed, and with no other restriction than the stated WR.

 

[Temperance Fox]

Well. I'll played at GDK on my own, Depositinfg 100 and getting 200.
Nothing has changed, great confusion in the section where I could see my wagering. I was speedy told into chat it was 30 x, and progressive allowed

I think I spend a lot of time to understan what I'm going to copy
It's been a hard fight and quite demential...

All has began with...

1)
You have been upgraded!

Dear Nxxxx
(User ID: WNxxxxxx)

On behalf of Winner.com, we are happy to announce that you have been upgraded to our VIP Elite Level!

As one of our most important clients, your new privileges include:
Welcome to the VIP Elite Level
$150 Welcome Gift
As our welcome gift to you, you will find a free $150 bonus - no deposit required - in your Winner Casino account. ------------------------

Ok , I log in the casino and see the free is 50,
email from me, apologise from them

2) walking into the fog, after my depositing , wrote
I had an email from you, giving a welcome back of 200%. I've deposited and found a customer, I don't remember his name.

I asked for some informations. I asked also the confirm this 200% wagering was amount plus deposit x 30 times. He confirmed it.

I played for about an hour or more with 300, up and downs...ok.

For my curiousity I look at the usufull section you have (quite new respect other casinos) and I' ve seen that I have to wager about 12.000...

Making a little mathematical operation I see that 100+200 is 300. 300 x30 is 9000. And I wonder if you can give me some information about this strange thing.

------------------------------------------

3) another email from me

Hi again, this is quite stressing, indeed!

I've found all terms

take a look here

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

All bonuses received must be wagered a minimum of thirty (30) times before winnings being eligible for withdrawal.
This means 300x 30 is 9000 of wagering that are 900 comp points
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So when I began playing I had 491 comp point, later , as I let you see at 2 o'clock, while writing, I have a total of 789. It means I wagered 2980 =298 comp . In fact the screen shows 789 comp points

In the mean time, it results I still have to wager 12000!!!!!(screen)

How is it possible?
First I've just wagered a certain amount, second 12000 means that the wagering requested is not 30 x, but , almost 12000 plus 2980 , that is about 50 x!!!!!!!

Here are the screens , ask for the last time to be clear and give me some explanations,Sorry , but customers must treat a little better

Regards

4) Finally answered
Your Highness,(!!!!!!!)

Thank you for choosing Grand Duke Casino. This is Angel from the Support
Team.
The bonus was automatically issued in your account after you made the deposit.
Moreover, your concern regarding the wagering requirement of the bonus has been
forwarded to the relevant team. We will be sure to contact you as soon as we
receive their response.
5)
Me

Maybe...

but your answer takes a long time, indeed.
I've seen the wagering is 300x 30, and it's 9000 usd, so I don't understand those 12 000 of wager written into my section bonuses. Last time happened something similar with a frend of mine...How is it possible that a support can't answer about such a simple question?

Althought the wagering could be seen also looking at comp point.

So, please try to ask me in a clear way, thanks
6)
Einstein...
......
We have clarified your wagering requirement to the relevant team to ensure
that the correct details will be given to you.
Yes, you are correct that your wagering requirement is bonus plus deposit
times 30 ($200.00 + $100.00 x 30 = $15000).

As of 2011-07-06 01:51:28 (casino time), you still need to complete the
wagering requirement of $6,025.53 on allowed games for the last bonus that you
received.

OMG!!!
7)
Sorry, but
300 (deposit plus bonus) x 30 is 9000 not 15000. If it shoul be 15000 the wagering is 50 x !!!!

8)
after 1 hour
Your Highness,

This is Angel from the Grand Duke Casino Support Team.

We apologize for the confusion.

It is deposit plus bonus times 30 ($200.00 + $100.00 x 30 = $9000).


I don' keep on writing about it, but this is not the end of the story.....

I've noticed that when another girl played there they have similar behaviour...

...to be continue....

 

[SlotMonster]

I think they have serious problems with their math skills...

$200.00 + $100.00 x 30 = $9000

And they are WRONG again:

$200.00 + $100.00 x 30 = $3200
($200.00 + $100.00) x 30 would be $9000, I guess

 

[Casinomeister]

Well. I'll played at GDK on my own, Depositinfg 100 and getting 200.
Nothing has changed, great confusion in the section where I could see my wagering. I was speedy told into chat it was 30 x, and progressive allowed

I think I spend a lot of time to understan what I'm going to copy
It's been a hard fight and quite demential...

All has began with...

1)
You have been upgraded!

Dear Nxxxx
(User ID: WNxxxxxx)

On behalf of Winner.com, we are happy to announce that you have been upgraded to our VIP Elite Level!...

Are you sure you're posting in the right thread? This is about Grand Duke - not winner.com

or???



But then, this is outsourced support (in the Philippines) so it's understandable that they get their wires crossed.

 

[Temperance Fox]

Hi there, sorry, the first one was fromwinner, and they wrote so and gave me 50 (another good place!) .I've made a sort of mass, coying the many emails ...

Almost I've been upgraded also at GDK, without any gift, so, I go on with that Oddity...

For sure 300 x30 is 9000! But it tooks about 5 hours as you can see in the last mail and a lot of "meeting" and consultations to write I was right.

Ok.
At the end I was k.o and very disappointed , so I wrote again all my reasons
at last they phoned me, they say they were young (it's only one, as I've understood) , and talking about my troubling game session I was told that
- there was another mistake: the wagering was 25 x
- progressive slot are NOT allowed


So, I spent a lot of time playing with wrong informations.

If they have communications gap, they could write down into the site or the promo email all the correct informations.Or, call me before, not after my last email with finally complains

Bad bad experience.Pay attention or, better, don't waste your money there!
It also appeared a pop up of congrats on my winnings....
Still have headache...

Thanks and bye , for now.