Game providers have a reason to rig slots

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player1

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Game slot providers are making their money from the money that the customer is losing at the casino right?
the casino takes lets say 80% of the profit on losses and the provider will take 20%..

who is stopping these game providers from doing whatever they like. why does it feel like games are programmed to pay huge wins at the minimum stakes.
for example dead or alive 2 multiple videos of people getting 100000x
but always at 9p stake.
where are the videos of people hitting 100000x at bigger stakes, lets say 2 euros.. so 200k win someone can buy a new house , but no you never see wins like this on slots really.
you can tell me more people are playing slots at 9p stake. ok but i just have never found a video of someone winning big on slots at a reasonable stake.

it just feels like these slots are programmed to pay huge wins at very low / minimum stakes.
providers are making money from the profits that the casino is making i know some providers are being paid a flat fee for the slot , but still..

also feels like the slot providers / casinos are getting more greedy.
with rtp, for example gonzo megaways now 92% on some casinos this is an 8% edge for the casino which is huge. i know its over many many thousand spins but seem like nobody care about rtp too much anymore.
 

Big Time Gaming

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Hey @player1, questions answered from a providers perspective:

Game slot providers are making their money from the money that the customer is losing at the casino right?
the casino takes lets say 80% of the profit on losses and the provider will take 20%..

Most providers are revenue based, yes! All slots are built for players to lose money on, they are for entertainment. The fact that the RTP is against you means you will lose money over time; a 96% RTP game will return 9.60p on a £10 deposit, on average, over time.

who is stopping these game providers from doing whatever they like. why does it feel like games are programmed to pay huge wins at the minimum stakes.

Third-party companies that audit games such as GLI test labs (and others) who work with licensed jurisdictions such as the UKGC and MGA etc to make sure the games pay the exact RTP that the game states it does, over time spent spinning.

for example dead or alive 2 multiple videos of people getting 100000x
but always at 9p stake.

I can't speak for other providers but our games have the same math no matter the stake and they are not capped unless the casino has a capped payout in place.

where are the videos of people hitting 100000x at bigger stakes, lets say 2 euros.. so 200k win someone can buy a new house, but no you never see wins like this on slots really.

Here's one of our biggest
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you can tell me more people are playing slots at 9p stake. ok but i just have never found a video of someone winning big on slots at a reasonable stake.

Yes, it's true, there are more people playing slots for low stake the mass majority under a pound per spin. So, if you had 10,000 players playing at 20p and 100 players playing at £15 (our av max stake) you could say that the chance of a player getting that big win on a big stake statistically, is less.

it just feels like these slots are programmed to pay huge wins at very low / minimum stakes.
Regulated jurisdictions will not allow this to happen.

providers are making money from the profits that the casino is making i know some providers are being paid a flat fee for the slot , but still..
This varies from provider to provider

also feels like the slot providers / casinos are getting more greedy.
Personally, I've always lost money at casinos they are there for entertainment.

with rtp, for example gonzo megaways now 92% on some casinos this is an 8% edge for the casino which is huge. i know its over many many thousand spins but seem like nobody care about rtp too much anymore.

RTP's are listed in the game, always check and have a look at RTP's before you play any game. We have fixed RTP's on all our games and we have never changed them and have no plans on that front.
 

maxd

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Thank you @Big Time Gaming for taking the time to reply. :thumbsup:

@player1 you are quite right in what you say, however there are two problems with it:
  • you are stating the obvious. What you say has been true since the day Ugh and Ugh-Ugh started throwing bones against the wall of their Neanderthal cave and betting their collection of nice round pebbles on outcome. Ugh hated to lose, which he did, and so Ugh-Ugh was obviously cheating. Sound familiar?
  • you have also missed the obvious in that if the casino cheats (too much) they eventually get found out, their reputation goes to shit and they start losing money because of it. Since the games are all designed to put money in their pockets anyway all they have to do is be fair and patient and the money will start rolling in. Players _want_ to give their money to casino operators so the operators are in a win-win scenario from the get-go.
In other words what you say has been posted and discussed to death a million times or more. Not that you've done a bad thing, just be aware that anyone who's been around the scene for any time at all knows all about it.
 
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Robert Rabbit

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.....All slots are built for players to lose money on, they are for entertainment

Good to see this - I would say it's a very expensive form of entertainment, but it's nice to see someone from the industry put it down so bluntly.

If you quantified this entertainment against other forms it is horrendously expensive on average.

Gym Membership = £1 per day
Cinema ticket = £10 for 2 hours entertainment
Swimming = £5

If you look at the losses of a well known streamer (Hypa) over a year it comes to around £30,000 a year (or roughly £80 a day for entertainment. The difference is that in my comparison's you don't stand the chance of getting money back, or making a profit, it is "dead money" from the outset.

But balance that against the statement that the odds are staked against you and invest some of your money in alternative forms of entertainment, as well as playing the slots if you want. You can then make a judgement as to which is most fun and most value for money.

I actually love the slots - but they have certainly brought me more pain than they have pleasure :). I'm not altogether sure entertainment is supposed to do that (apart from certain at well known private gentlemen's clubs in London :) )
 

Bloatgoat

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Yep. The cost of "entertainment" right here is just beserk. I feel with OP, we gamble to win. But the reality online is that 7 out of 10 deposits on avg are a straight loss. No matter your tactic. If your lucky enough you might 'roundplay' your initial deposit. But nobody is going to deposit 100, play for 2 hours, and hit withdrawl at a 100 again. It's a false form of entertainment and the way we are presented the RTP numbers.

I am so frustrated at the moment, if there was a punching bag i'd rip it apart with my fists right now. The fact alone that playing slots can just drive me to this madness is just crazy. What entertainment? It's pure lurking of players money, giving "near" shit all the time all over the place, or a standaard "130 coins" on a DOA bonus game, nummerous of times.

I wagered 3 to 5 grand in the last 2 weeks on DOA, sustained same bet. I played it at night. I played it in the morning. I played it in the afternoon. I even played it an half hour ago. The bottom line is: dont waste your time on these peaces of shit slots to be honest. Netent is truely the cancer of the industry in my opinion. It's just happening with most major providers since previous year really.

I really should have left previous year. Wipe my ass with all these providers and brands, and say get some evil decease really. All i ever accomplish in 3 different casino's is to play my money at least one time over and if i'm lucky enough get a small bone tossed over time. Random my ass. It's a RNG with extra's, all comes down to not making too much over a large amount of time.

I had it 4 times now. Dropped in 600 euro, lost, last frigging bonus buy on chilli on 10 euro (!) and getting a miracle fullscreen of purple's nobody ever seen in their life hitting like that before. And i did awefully alot of bonus buys on Chilli for it to know that this is'nt really what you call genuine. Yes a random event but a bit obvious after losing 600 euro.

iwpjrgijwerg.jpg

Previous week: 200 euro, buying 5x 40 euro bonus bets. I lose 'm all on the gamble feature. Left with 12 euro? I do the last buy, and frigging i have it on video as well, landing me perfectly around the 200 euro mark. Wtf is this wagered, rigged shit.

Obviously i lose both winnings here, because i already knew, it's a part of the systematic playing my deposit at least 1x round. Casino only gives me a blabla answer, nobody is going to really show the inner side workings of a casino. There's this huge silentness from providers that dont want their recipes to be dumped on the street.

Really people; big bets, 18 pounds on DOA, is just money that goes straight back to the 9 cents betters. All games have a tendency to trigger you into betting more. Bets are truely limited in relation of payout. If you want more you gotta take more risk. And many games do have a adjusted payback formula as i can say when playing on 9 cents vs 90 cents vs 3.60 vs 9 a spin. Left right, your going to get fisted anyway. It's programmed todo this.
 

LordSilver

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Good to see this - I would say it's a very expensive form of entertainment, but it's nice to see someone from the industry put it down so bluntly.

If you quantified this entertainment against other forms it is horrendously expensive on average.

Gym Membership = £1 per day
Cinema ticket = £10 for 2 hours entertainment
Swimming = £5

Most here on Casinomeister are not average players, so when they look at things, they naturally look at it from their point of view.

But most of the players are just casual ones, for them it's entertainment they spend 10, 20 maybe up to 50 pounds per month on. But like with all hobbies, there are those spending more, whether you do it on buying fancy wine bottles, own a horse or play on slots. So I don't agree it's an expensive entertainment, it's what you make out of it really. What I like about it, is that it's entertainment but with some thrill to it, if I'm lucky I can win a bit..or even a lot.

People play on lotto, even if they know the chances to win big are very very small, but the thrill that the possibility is there, that's enough for most people. Same goes with slots.

I know many here wouldn't agree, but you have to look at the big bunch of players out there too, who play slots for small sums as a form of entertainment :)
 

trancemonkey

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@trancemonkey in 3....2....1....

There is nothing I can say that I haven't already said in the two AMA threads and that @Big Time Gaming has not already mentioned.

There are some people that will never believe the amount of shit most companies (not all... in unregulated markets I'm sure it's likely to be very much the wild west) have to go through in order to get games certified as compliant to whatever jurisdiction they need to be in.

There are bound to be dodgy people in an industry this big where so much money is at stake, but there are bad people in every industry.

As a games provider, our job is basically to make spending money enjoyable as much as possible. In the end, nearly everyone will lose at some point as it's basically just maths.
 

trancemonkey

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I think
Yep. The cost of "entertainment" right here is just beserk. I feel with OP, we gamble to win. But the reality online is that 7 out of 10 deposits on avg are a straight loss. No matter your tactic. If your lucky enough you might 'roundplay' your initial deposit. But nobody is going to deposit 100, play for 2 hours, and hit withdrawl at a 100 again. It's a false form of entertainment and the way we are presented the RTP numbers.

I am so frustrated at the moment, if there was a punching bag i'd rip it apart with my fists right now. The fact alone that playing slots can just drive me to this madness is just crazy. What entertainment? It's pure lurking of players money, giving "near" shit all the time all over the place, or a standaard "130 coins" on a DOA bonus game, nummerous of times.

I wagered 3 to 5 grand in the last 2 weeks on DOA, sustained same bet. I played it at night. I played it in the morning. I played it in the afternoon. I even played it an half hour ago. The bottom line is: dont waste your time on these peaces of shit slots to be honest. Netent is truely the cancer of the industry in my opinion. It's just happening with most major providers since previous year really.

I really should have left previous year. Wipe my ass with all these providers and brands, and say get some evil decease really. All i ever accomplish in 3 different casino's is to play my money at least one time over and if i'm lucky enough get a small bone tossed over time. Random my ass. It's a RNG with extra's, all comes down to not making too much over a large amount of time.

I had it 4 times now. Dropped in 600 euro, lost, last frigging bonus buy on chilli on 10 euro (!) and getting a miracle fullscreen of purple's nobody ever seen in their life hitting like that before. And i did awefully alot of bonus buys on Chilli for it to know that this is'nt really what you call genuine. Yes a random event but a bit obvious after losing 600 euro.

View attachment 138034

Previous week: 200 euro, buying 5x 40 euro bonus bets. I lose 'm all on the gamble feature. Left with 12 euro? I do the last buy, and frigging i have it on video as well, landing me perfectly around the 200 euro mark. Wtf is this wagered, rigged shit.

Obviously i lose both winnings here, because i already knew, it's a part of the systematic playing my deposit at least 1x round. Casino only gives me a blabla answer, nobody is going to really show the inner side workings of a casino. There's this huge silentness from providers that dont want their recipes to be dumped on the street.

Really people; big bets, 18 pounds on DOA, is just money that goes straight back to the 9 cents betters. All games have a tendency to trigger you into betting more. Bets are truely limited in relation of payout. If you want more you gotta take more risk. And many games do have a adjusted payback formula as i can say when playing on 9 cents vs 90 cents vs 3.60 vs 9 a spin. Left right, your going to get fisted anyway. It's programmed todo this.

With all due respect, you sound like you have a gambling problem to be honest. If its not entertaining, why on earth would you do it...
 

Bloatgoat

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With all due respect, you sound like you have a gambling problem to be honest. If its not entertaining, why on earth would you do it...

Yes, i admit i have a problem. I am chasing something that just drives me crazy through the point of hitting a wall really. And i'm kind of a very self-controlled regards to any fysical stuff really. That's just in a nutshell where playing slots could lead to. Thanks to the 'industrial' bullshit having shit to put to extreme amounts of wagering and where even bandit admits, playing for 20 hours in some session is like the average of his, video's you see on his youtube.

It's a bit due to the Covid-19 where public places are locked; so there's alot time spend behind my computer due to my business, and it's very, very tempting to wake up and have another tab running in the background really. I'd wish i could just punch a representative straight in the face for the shit caused with a dozen of people thanks to the genius algorithms and developed strategy's to new slots which sole intention is to stick people for longer and longer making them lose more money overall, and even cushioning players that losing is very 'normal'.

It kind of relieves me at this moment expressing the way i feel right now, but you get my point here. I can throw in another landbased story right now on how quick i could walk away with real cash in my hands but screw it.
 

Robert Rabbit

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Yes, i admit i have a problem. I am chasing something that just drives me crazy through the point of hitting a wall really. And i'm kind of a very self-controlled regards to any fysical stuff really. That's just in a nutshell where playing slots could lead to. Thanks to the 'industrial' bullshit having shit to put to extreme amounts of wagering and where even bandit admits, playing for 20 hours in some session is like the average of his, video's you see on his youtube.

It's a bit due to the Covid-19 where public places are locked; so there's alot time spend behind my computer due to my business, and it's very, very tempting to wake up and have another tab running in the background really. I'd wish i could just punch a representative straight in the face for the shit caused with a dozen of people thanks to the genius algorithms and developed strategy's to new slots which sole intention is to stick people for longer and longer making them lose more money overall, and even cushioning players that losing is very 'normal'.

It kind of relieves me at this moment expressing the way i feel right now, but you get my point here. I can throw in another landbased story right now on how quick i could walk away with real cash in my hands but screw it.
I think the point is that the slots are not rigged in the true sense of the term, they are programmed to pay out less than they receive, and the difference is the charge for your entertainment, this is freely admitted by the BTG representative.

I would reiterate trancemonkeys comment though, this does not seem like entertainment to me. You appear to be getting no enjoyment out it, and all it is doing is generating frustration and aggression. If you are in the UK my advice would be to consider putting a block on your card for gambling at least temporarily until you feel you are in control, it is amazing how much the urge goes away when you no longer have the ability to assuage it.

Winning big feels like you are on top of the world, but it doesn't always balance out the lows and the sleepless nights.
 

brianmon

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for example dead or alive 2 multiple videos of people getting 100000x
but always at 9p stake.
where are the videos of people hitting 100000x at bigger stakes, lets say 2 euros.. so 200k win someone can buy a new house , but no you never see wins like this on slots really.
you can tell me more people are playing slots at 9p stake. ok but i just have never found a video of someone winning big on slots at a reasonable stake.
It's also probably only a tiny minority of players, who would even video or screenshot any big wins, let alone post them on Youtube or wherever else
 

Bloatgoat

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I think the point is that the slots are not rigged in the true sense of the term, they are programmed to pay out less than they receive, and the difference is the charge for your entertainment, this is freely admitted by the BTG representative.

I would reiterate trancemonkeys comment though, this does not seem like entertainment to me. You appear to be getting no enjoyment out it, and all it is doing is generating frustration and aggression. If you are in the UK my advice would be to consider putting a block on your card for gambling at least temporarily until you feel you are in control, it is amazing how much the urge goes away when you no longer have the ability to assuage it.

Winning big feels like you are on top of the world, but it doesn't always balance out the lows and the sleepless nights.

Well, they actually are paying less over the last few years. That's the point. I suggest reading Providers moving the goal posts as i'm not the only one. And proberly the point of the OP here, too. Providers have changed. I had betters years really on a more steady, base peaking at a 65k withdrawl previous year. From that point on, and that was'nt really my fault or anything except for going back at it again, things simply changed. And i could tell the casino that i did play at, altering slots where limiting the max bets suddenly. And that more and more games where getting a gradius stupid cap on the amount of payback.

I'm going to take a break anyway, as i'm pretty much done. People in my shoes would feel the same after losing a tremendous amount of hard earned cash on slots, where it just throw you a small bone here and there, with it's sole intention is to keep you going.

Dont believe the (streaming) video hype's out there. I can produce big wins too if i'm on bonus money and within my wagering requirement. Boohoo great entertainment.
 

Robert Rabbit

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Dont believe the (streaming) video hype's out there.
Anyone who does needs psychiatric help :) The point of streaming is to generate sign ups and make money, you do that by highlighting what a get rich quick scheme it is because "it could be you".

You wouldn't advertise a car by showing how the wheels fall off after you have been driving it for half an hour, which is a reasonable comparison to playing slots for entertainment. You sell the car by advertising what an amazing piece of equipment is, and then once you have the cash it's too late for the buyer to complain :)
 

Bloatgoat

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I was reffering to the "big wins" > with real cash it's nearly impossible.

I think the model of bonus money has shifted anyway. I always encounter myself in having far better luck when on bonus money rather then real money. And when i'm reffering to "within wagering requirements" it means that good shit always happens as long as your still in your wagering.
 

dunover

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Thank you @Big Time Gaming for taking the time to reply. :thumbsup:

@player1 you are quite right in what you say, however there are two problems with it:
  • you are stating the obvious. What you say has been true since the day Ugh and Ugh-Ugh started throwing bones against the wall of their Neanderthal cave and betting their collection of nice round pebbles on outcome. Ugh hated to lose, which he did, and so Ugh-Ugh was obviously cheating. Sound familiar?
  • you have also missed the obvious in that if the casino cheats (too much) they eventually get found out, their reputation goes to shit and they start losing money because of it. Since the games are all designed to put money in their pockets anyway all they have to do is be fair and patient and the money will start rolling in. Players _want_ to give their money to casino operators so the operators are in a win-win scenario from the get-go.
In other words what you say has been posted and discussed to death a million times or more. Not that you've done a bad thing, just be aware that anyone who's been around the scene for any time at all knows all about it.

:laugh::laugh:
 

Robert Rabbit

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Thank you @Big Time Gaming for taking the time to reply. :thumbsup:

@player1 you are quite right in what you say, however there are two problems with it:
  • you are stating the obvious. What you say has been true since the day Ugh and Ugh-Ugh started throwing bones against the wall of their Neanderthal cave and betting their collection of nice round pebbles on outcome. Ugh hated to lose, which he did, and so Ugh-Ugh was obviously cheating. Sound familiar?
Yep but in that case Ugh Ugh would have got a hefty kick in the nuts :)
 

goatwack

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Pretty sure gambling is to try and win money whilst being entertained, not just 'entertainment' where the 'fun' comes from watching some ropey graphics make the little balance go zewo

And yes, given designers' lack of transparency, altering RTPs on the down-low, random Number Generators that aren't random (but 'sort of') & the classic 'It's all audited by 3rd- parties, to achieve the true numbers one has to play through 50 million spins bruh' mantra, it's quite clear the industry has every angle covered.

Meanwhile, streamers showcase games that run like they're in Demo Mode on crack, and mere mortals with functioning eyes can see games play differently to even 4-5 years ago :thumbsup:
 

wizzy

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Pretty sure gambling is to try and win money whilst being entertained, not just 'entertainment' where the 'fun' comes from watching some ropey graphics make the little balance go zewo

And yes, given designers' lack of transparency, altering RTPs on the down-low, random Number Generators that aren't random (but 'sort of') & the classic 'It's all audited by 3rd- parties, to achieve the true numbers one has to play through 50 million spins bruh' mantra, it's quite clear the industry has every angle covered.

Meanwhile, streamers showcase games that run like they're in Demo Mode on crack, and mere mortals with functioning eyes can see games play differently to even 4-5 years ago :thumbsup:

playing slots feels very different these days, it feels much tougher to win overall on slots and the rtp just gets worse by the day.
 

pinnit2014

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playing slots feels very different these days, it feels much tougher to win overall on slots and the rtp just gets worse by the day.

Doubling your deposit, even if a tenner, is a mission in itself. Hard to find entertainment solace when Zero appears to have a Magneto effect on your starting balance.
 
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