Game providers have a reason to rig slots

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Borgie

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[QUOTE="cncas2123, post:
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?
[/QUOTE]

Yes i am interested in this too. Is he saying that they have changed it so he cant win ?
 

Halvor

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So no matter how you bring it, if it was my illusion, if it was a genuine bug, or if something else fall from the sky, i managed to obtain 65k out of it! Something you'll proberly never get even close to loolll.
Most likely not, because I will never hammen on at high stakes. If my goal was big profits I would invest, not bloody gamble.

With that said, neither will I spend hours of my life just a few months later complaining about losing 200 euro in a session.

But go on, keep telling us how fantastic you are at highrolling.
 

neon claws

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So I guess this is the new weekly rigged games thread?

An observation I had the other night that I wouldn't dare post a thread about because you invariably sound like a nutjob and sore loser to boot is that quite often after a big win you get a few little "aftershocks" - so you'll be hammering away happily losing for hundreds of spins with barely a 2x pay to be seen, and then you get a big 200x pay, great! But the strange part is how often you seem to get a few 25x pays in the next few spins.

The reptilian conspiracy part of my brain says it must be because the win was "due" and it's now paying out your big win, plus some change.

The logical part of my brain says "funny how overactive pattern recognition works".
 

trancemonkey

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Thanks.. didn't show as a link on my phone.
So now I have read the whole thing, the excerpt you copied and pasted in no way proves or even semi-proves anything. It is nothing more than guess work from people who don't know how games work or how testing and RNGs work.

Now, did BetSoft or the casino cock up with regards to the jackpot prize - possibly yes. However, all the claims and statements made after that are pure bullshit guesswork designed to inflame.

The RNG is tested independently to the game. It has to be certified separately and undergoes very rigorous testing (feel free to look at the freel available technical standards for information on what is required). The game then uses this RNG to determine its results, and when the game is tested, and issue with the RNG (if it was tampered with) would likely become apparent. Also, the RNG is a protected module, so if it were changed, the checksum would change and it would be obvious to any test house that this had been done.

So before you start throwing wild claims around, why don't you do some simple research and actually get the facts, rather than some fake news (damn I can't believe I said that!) that you have found on the internet and posit as true.
 

trancemonkey

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So I guess this is the new weekly rigged games thread?

An observation I had the other night that I wouldn't dare post a thread about because you invariably sound like a nutjob and sore loser to boot is that quite often after a big win you get a few little "aftershocks" - so you'll be hammering away happily losing for hundreds of spins with barely a 2x pay to be seen, and then you get a big 200x pay, great! But the strange part is how often you seem to get a few 25x pays in the next few spins.

The reptilian conspiracy part of my brain says it must be because the win was "due" and it's now paying out your big win, plus some change.

The logical part of my brain says "funny how overactive pattern recognition works".
The logical part of your brain is good :)
 

neon claws

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The logical part of your brain is good :)

I assume the old "ask me anything" thread is closed so I'll ask here:

Do these testing houses take into account accumulator wastage?

Eg; the Vikings go berzerk slot has 4 very slow to fill accumulators, now, a million spins from a single user with these will likely pay the trtp, but a thousand spins each from a thousand users? There's no way the vast majority of people will stop playing exactly after all four accumulators pay out simultaneously so the percentage of the wager dedicated to going into them is bound to be wasted.

Therefore you would expect the actual real life RTP of this slot (and indeed any slot with an accumulator function, especially multi-accumulators) to be well below advertised trtp.

Or do they somehow account for this in testing?
 

Bloatgoat

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[QUOTE="cncas2123, post:
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?

Yes i am interested in this too. Is he saying that they have changed it so he cant win ?
[/QUOTE]

Trust me, ive set a large portion aside for myself. And i bought a car with it. No worry's. As for repeating the obvious; no, it did'nt work that good aftwards again. And i suspect that that casino is running some sort of gimped version of it, it has the same bet limitation of up to 10 euro rather then the full 40 euro on extra chilli, and the difficulty into the gambling wheel is like 3x worse compared to two other casino's i play at. To give you an example, it's very rare to hit the 20 and actually win or even the 24 now. And ive tried quite a few times since then. Lately they have bin changing all sorts of games in relation of maximum bet size.

They say it's to protect their customers, but yet allow the in house games with bets up to 250 euro a spin. Who are they kidding here. The profits on the in house game(s) are much more for them since there's no licensing fee's involved. It's just to cover their liability. I remember previous year someone won 90k with DOA. They paid out accordingly, they have that repuration tho. But after that the max bet was gimped again. And it's difficult to even land something "Good" on that game now using level 4 betsize compared to a level 2 betsize.

I'm sure they can play and fiddle around with RTP's, constant give you a base game win, in the numbering have it up to 96% and still make you lose your complete deposit, get where i'm going?

To give you an idea of my gambling habbits: twice a week on avg. I spend on avg 200 to 500 euro a week. Usually within 3 weeks i hit a deposit that covers just enough of that what i put in. Sometimes i do crazy, i go high limit, or i attempt to chase a DOA wildline on a high bet. It frustrates me that it can hang you on a leach lurking your budget away for weeks really.

But i play long enough to know, it is'nt really as we're presented. Random within parameters.
 

trancemonkey

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I assume the old "ask me anything" thread is closed so I'll ask here:

Do these testing houses take into account accumulator wastage?

Eg; the Vikings go berzerk slot has 4 very slow to fill accumulators, now, a million spins from a single user with these will likely pay the trtp, but a thousand spins each from a thousand users? There's no way the vast majority of people will stop playing exactly after all four accumulators pay out simultaneously so the percentage of the wager dedicated to going into them is bound to be wasted.

Therefore you would expect the actual real life RTP of this slot (and indeed any slot with an accumulator function, especially multi-accumulators) to be well below advertised trtp.

Or do they somehow account for this in testing?

The old thread is closed but there is a new one :)

And no, sadly they don't - which is why i don't like long term persistence games. You're right that unless you play a very long time, you have no hope of getting to the total RTP...
 

neon claws

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The old thread is closed but there is a new one :)

And no, sadly they don't - which is why i don't like long term persistence games. You're right that unless you play a very long time, you have no hope of getting to the total RTP...

So, what you're saying is.. they're RIGGED?????????

J/k
 

Siohmy

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I like to think of myself as a fairly opened minded person. Generally I will not rule out any ideas that things may not be as they seem although burden of proof is on the accuser.

I'd actually say the bigger problem which is driving the, must be rigged, narrative is the abundance of shockingly designed slots over the last few years. You are always going to become more frustrated when faced with an ever increasing wave of slots which will eat 100x of your session money in 15 minutes. With larger, longer and more costly losing streaks the temptation to look to more dubious reasons is high.

Unfortunately it's a simple case that casinos found a nice cheap way of advertising through streamers and
the subsequent desire to show bigger and bigger wins overtook almost any desire to produce playable games. As a result unless you are very selective about your games you will get burnt over and over and over again to the point you can often go into a session just hoping to hit a bonus to slow the inevitable drain on your funds. The HTML switch has also provided a good excuse to dump many older, much more playable games or bring them back in almost unplayable format. I had a go on Ruby Slippers the other day and not only did the slippers bonus give me a previously very rare zero pay, it still gave me a 2x multiplier!!?? 2 times zero, yeah great. So clearly the manufacturers don't want you to go back to proper medium volatility slots.

This, rather than the theories often put forward is likely the real issue. As trancemonkey has said on numerous occasions, why would a reputable (not dodgy Russian sites) put their entire business at risk when the maths will earn them the money in the long run. The number of casinos lowering their RTP actually bears this out as this is the way to increase their revenue as it is perfectly legal.

I think the online, and the slot industry as a whole, is in trouble if I'm honest. Unless you are a hopeless addict there is really not much enticing about putting hours and quite a bit of money just grinding out for a rare bonus which despite "see I told you it had potential" will often spit 10-20x at you. Yes you want to win but, my god, even if a slot threw 1000x at me (a laughably "modest" win these days apparently) whilst doing F all for the other 11 months of the year I'd give up and I am very close to doing so, once you lose a customer it is bloody hard to get them back.

If you happen to be enticed by all the riches on offer, how long are you realistically going to stick around based on most of the common slots on offer these days. How many understand that the odds of even getting 1000x win are often in the hundreds of thousands to one?

Sorry for the rant and ramble. I haven't just lost the house or anything I can't afford even if it may sound like it. I just wanted to give my angle as to why people may often be reaching for the rigged argument rather than "slots, they're a bit sh1t these days aren't they?".

Finally for all those going through a rough patch, these figures are far from the worst but maybe will give you an idea of what to expect. Kept 4 months records for interest purposes, so also played more than I usually would to get a semblance of meaningful info.

22,564 spins at an average of 64p across a wide range of slots (admittedly quite a bit of BTG), lost on average 9p per spin so overall just under 86% RTP. Total loss £1,932.17. Biggest win in run: 273x.
 
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pinnit2014

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Peoples expectations have risen as the increase in HV offerings has continued. I'm personally guilty of it as well - in a previous life I'd be like, woohoo 100x - now it's shifted to 500x for the same. Though to be fair, when you sit through games that sometimes only bonus once in 500 plus spins there is a pre setting in your head that things 'it ought to give a half decent return'

Maybe there'll be a shift back the ways to more wins in and around the 200x mark; string a couple of those closely together and it's not a bad withdrawal, I dunno.

HV slots, whilst great when you hit them (and I have the odd time on JJ/DOA2), really do a number on you if you spend too long on them - and, having seen some of them, who can blame players but it comes with a price - your sanity :p
 

Mr_Slot5

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To be fair, I do understand what some people in here are trying to convey. I mean it's uncanny how things seem to work with the slots time after time. A few examples...

Slot sessions are dead for x amount of time. Doesn't matter what casino you play at, which providers you play, volatility of games etc it's just pure dead. Everywhere. Precious little bonuses and balance not going above start.

Slot sessions are hot. Every game you play, every provider suddenly paying out...your sessions last for ages. Feels like you're on cheat mode.

Get a massive win. Go back to that game and it's stone cold, doesn't matter what casino you play at it's dead...far worse than the 'average' gameplay you'd usually expect. This is EVERY single time. Is it really 'random' and bad luck that these dire spells always happen after an insane hit?

The ceiling- you hit a decent win early on but then become 'capped' at a certain monetary amount. Balance fluctuates around that value but feels like you cannot break through that capped balance. Your balance goes down, you hit a bonus and it pays the exact x amount to take you back to that cap. Seen this so many times.

Of course, this might all be in people's heads but it is funny how so many people clearly report the same patterns. It's almost like how RTP is irrelevant and it's all about how that RTP is managed/manipulated for the end user.
 
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Halvor

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Reporting the same is the key words here, never any underlying stats. why can't some of the tinfoils document extensive gameplay and show all of these so called clear patterns?

call me cynical but bloaties eye test won't cut it for me.
 

Mr_Slot5

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Reporting the same is the key words here, never any underlying stats. why can't some of the tinfoils document extensive gameplay and show all of these so called clear patterns?

call me cynical but bloaties eye test won't cut it for me.
Well personally I'm not interested in stats. I play for fun and have no axe to grind. It is what it is. Mine are purely observations.
 

MrEvil

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I'd actually say the bigger problem which is driving the, must be rigged, narrative is the abundance of shockingly designed slots over the last few years. You are always going to become more frustrated when faced with an ever increasing wave of slots which will eat 100x of your session money in 15 minutes. With larger, longer and more costly losing streaks the temptation to look to more dubious reasons is high.

This sums up every single Pragmatic slot released the last 1,5 year. Well designed games with high quality graphics and sounds, but every time i play one i end up leaving without having had the free spins, having spent more money than it would cost to buy the free spins instead.

Things might have changed, with less playtime for your money, but i don't think it's because of foul play. It's just a combination of increased volatility across the board and reduced RTP on many slots.
 

Playford7

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Thanks.. didn't show as a link on my phone.
So now I have read the whole thing, the excerpt you copied and pasted in no way proves or even semi-proves anything. It is nothing more than guess work from people who don't know how games work or how testing and RNGs work.

Now, did BetSoft or the casino cock up with regards to the jackpot prize - possibly yes. However, all the claims and statements made after that are pure bullshit guesswork designed to inflame.

The RNG is tested independently to the game. It has to be certified separately and undergoes very rigorous testing (feel free to look at the freel available technical standards for information on what is required). The game then uses this RNG to determine its results, and when the game is tested, and issue with the RNG (if it was tampered with) would likely become apparent. Also, the RNG is a protected module, so if it were changed, the checksum would change and it would be obvious to any test house that this had been done.

So before you start throwing wild claims around, why don't you do some simple research and actually get the facts, rather than some fake news (damn I can't believe I said that!) that you have found on the internet and posit as true.
Confirmed trump guy! You said fake news!!!
 

Bloatgoat

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The ceiling- you hit a decent win early on but then become 'capped' at a certain monetary amount. Balance fluctuates around that value but feels like you cannot break through that capped balance. Your balance goes down, you hit a bonus and it pays the exact x amount to take you back to that cap. Seen this so many times.

At the other side of the medallion you gotta be lucky enough for a hit coming in like this:

IMG_3507.jpg

No it does'nt work every day but it's there. I might add on top of this that, after a big withdrawl, winning over time is quite difficult. At first it sets you to whatever value it can / will give you, holds you there for a while exactly as you described, and then either tumble down (which is 9 out of 10) or push you ahead.

If you gamble away that portion it's sort of in the box that the next time you are able to push it more easily. In my understanding you gotta wager around alot, and at some point it starts paying back. As i said i knew a guy who booted 10 euro paysafe into the 6k marks time and time again, that was untill he start withdrawing obviously. Party was over.

Initial "new" signup to a casino as well. Like anti-cheat mode is on and litterally on any slot like it's a free trial. Previous year i kicked it with ease to 20k mark. It kept me there for hours and hours, simply put a limitation put on what i could won.

I understand a casino could have safety features, but it's a gambling establishment. Being capped at your win kind of ruins the idea that every spin is thought to be random. Today as well. Instead of buying on extra chilli i went the playing / wagering way at 10 euro a spin. At some point the 500 euro buy dropped to 370 something or so. Game chrashes, or at least does'nt respond anymore, i come back, the feature is back to 500. What kind of shit is this really.

I opened up instant a support email; but i know they are going to answer at least tomorrow or in 2 days on avg... How is this possible? Having your feature price being reset. They sure could track that down into my playing logs. I bet there will be zero compensation for that shit.

Also; whenever i play big; suddenly the collecting of bonus points (as part of a loyalty member program) was stalled for the last few days. And i wagered really alot that the numbering should be in the thousands. Not that you cant do much with it looking at it's minimum 39x wagering requirement, but still.
 

neon claws

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Bloatgoat is all over the place, impossible to engage in a debate with because you address one thing and then just throws five other random accusations out there, each vague enough to not even be argued.

But people keep saying how strange it is that you end up at a "ceiling", that your balance "resets", "I lost $600 and then, I won $600, surely rigged!"

If you think about it for just one second; with a trtp near 100% the highest probability is always going to be getting back to just under your initial balance but probably no further. If you looked at the probability of what your balance will be after 100 spins it would be a bell curve with the peak just under your initial balance. Then after another 100 spins it would be just below the last balance. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower, but always the most probable outcome is almost getting your balance back.
 

Playford7

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[QUOTE="cncas2123, post:
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?

Yes i am interested in this too. Is he saying that they have changed it so he cant win ?
[/QUOTE]
They clearly adjusted chilli just so he can’t win now after his ‘65k’ monster.
and all the providers, the casinos and even the mods are in on this terrible conspiracy against him... it’s that simple! Don’t you get it! ha
 
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