For people who play at 3Dice.

[skiny]

I just had a chat with Ellen. Money taken from the safe no longer counts toward vip.

I had a 25 dollar gift, turned it into over 100 bucks put it all in the safe and piddled it away on a losing streak that took me back to zero.

It's fine, you win some you lose some.

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

So if you want your winnings to count toward your vip you have to take it out of the casino. I'll use Moneybookers or back to my credit card from now on.

 

[Nifty29]

I just had a chat with Ellen. Money taken from the safe no longer counts toward vip.

I had a 25 dollar gift, turned it into over 100 bucks put it all in the safe and piddled it away on a losing streak that took me back to zero.

It's fine, you win some you lose some.

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

So if you want your winnings to count toward your vip you have to take it out of the casino. I'll use Moneybookers or back to my credit card from now on.

I'm guessing they're doing it due to abuse. Maybe some are continually moving money in and out of the safe to create "ghost deposits" to artificially increase their vip status. If its true, then its another example of the innocent paying the price for the actions of the dodgy (you being innocent )

It might be an unpopular view, but I don't think the VIP program is very good at all....certainly not in comparison to 32red etc. I do like that I can sometimes get a 50% match with no WR (albeit small) and the quick payouts, but otherwise there's not much else. I'm not as big a fan as I once was, especially since that ISS game came out.....I had a few good hits early on when there were heaps of players, but now that there's almost nobody playing it, my cash just get sucked like a vacuum. I haven't had a multiplier over 40 in months and that green stuff is much more scarce.

Anyway, sorry for the partial derail.

 

[skiny]

I'm guessing they're doing it due to abuse. Maybe some are continually moving money in and out of the safe to create "ghost deposits" to artificially increase their vip status. If its true, then its another example of the innocent paying the price for the actions of the dodgy (you being innocent )

It might be an unpopular view, but I don't think the VIP program is very good at all....certainly not in comparison to 32red etc. I do like that I can sometimes get a 50% match with no WR (albeit small) and the quick payouts, but otherwise there's not much else. I'm not as big a fan as I once was, especially since that ISS game came out.....I had a few good hits early on when there were heaps of players, but now that there's almost nobody playing it, my cash just get sucked like a vacuum. I haven't had a multiplier over 40 in months and that green stuff is much more scarce.

Anyway, sorry for the partial derail.

Actually comparing the vip to 32Red is like apples and oranges. 3Dice has many different vip levels, the lowest basically allowing you to play all the tournaments. From there the levels go to bronze, silver, gold and some sort of God like status that nobody talks about.

The initial 50 dollar per month deposit is enough to get you the lowest vip level. Some people like to make small deposits and low roll. Not everyone is a big time gambler. Some people pay the 50 bucks and then play the tournaments for the most part and they aren't that easy to win but it kills time. Now the way it used to work is if you had some winnings like I did today I could withdraw it to the safe rather than take it right out of the casino. Then when I take it back out of the safe it still counts as a deposit. Apparently that is no longer the case. None of the money I had in my safe today counted toward me getting a vip status. The 25 dollar gift counted toward it but the money from the safe didn't. Almost 4x as much as I would have needed to make the required 50 dollars.

All this is fine but it would be nice to be informed of these changes so I would change my methods. I could have easily withdrew the money to MB and then sent it back later on. That is the whole idea behind using the safe. When people win they like to put it in the safe rather than withdraw it from the casino and then play it in smaller "deposits" later on. It benefits the player because they don't have the hassle of taking the money out of the casino and it benefits the casino because you'll probably end up losing it anyway and the money never left the casino. lol

All I know is if I won money and put it in the safe it used to count toward retaining my vip. Today it did not. That is new and I don't know about anyone else but nobody told me.

 

[Pocketdiggers77]

I just had a chat with Ellen. Money taken from the safe no longer counts toward vip.

I had a 25 dollar gift, turned it into over 100 bucks put it all in the safe and piddled it away on a losing streak that took me back to zero.

It's fine, you win some you lose some.

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

So if you want your winnings to count toward your vip you have to take it out of the casino. I'll use Moneybookers or back to my credit card from now on.

Do you mean the $50 deposit a month required to play in the free tournaments? I always thought that any money wagered counted towards your VIP status. how that is determined is a 3dice mystery. I have asked for some sort of counter but that never materialized. It would be nice if we knew how much wagering we needed to advance to the next level. the 3dice bounses are small in comparison but they are ok with me. I can work with it.

 

[blonde]

I just had a chat with Ellen. Money taken from the safe no longer counts toward vip.

I had a 25 dollar gift, turned it into over 100 bucks put it all in the safe and piddled it away on a losing streak that took me back to zero.

It's fine, you win some you lose some.

Now I find out that the 400 dollars in play I generated and the 80 or 90 dollars in safe deposits don't count toward vip anymore.

So if you want your winnings to count toward your vip you have to take it out of the casino. I'll use Moneybookers or back to my credit card from now on.

Well I for one totally agree with this. I have said for a while now that to retain your VIP level you need to make the minimum deposit. IMO when you play the "safe" game with "gifts" it is not fair to depositors in regards to competition with tournaments etc. If you have made the minimum deposit in the last 30 days, then I am sure your game play today would of counted towards your VIP level. Cashing out your winnings has nothing to do with your VIP level, if you are a VIP player then game play will count from your 400 dollars in play.

 

[blonde]

Do you mean the $50 deposit a month required to play in the free tournaments? I always thought that any money wagered counted towards your VIP status. how that is determined is a 3dice mystery. I have asked for some sort of counter but that never materialized. It would be nice if we knew how much wagering we needed to advance to the next level. the 3dice bounses are small in comparison but they are ok with me. I can work with it.

A $50 monthly deposit is needed to be a VIP player, however lets say you are a Silver 5 player and make your monthly required deposit, then do not have any luck the previous 10 days for the loyalty time frame, you will only drop one level. Another scenario; you deposit one time, $50 and play the rest of the month on tourney wins and do pretty good racking up comp points, this counts. It is a bit confusing, hope I didn't make things worse

 

[skiny]

I've heard this same story many times over. It's not unfair for any player who deposited 50 dollars to play the vip tournaments.

Bottom level vip is vip. If you deposited more and played more you get higher level vip.

A 50 dollar deposit is required to play the vip tournaments each month. As it stood for as long as I've known, deposits from the safe counted as deposits.

Not having to remove your money from the casino is the entire reason behind using the safe. If deposits from the safe don't count as "deposits" then people who want to use their winnings to retain bottom level vip will just have to take at least 50 dollars out of the casino and then deposit back in.

First of all, there are already 17 different categories of player ranging from Member to Platinum with 5 Bronze, 5 Silver and 5 Gold levels in between. Each category has its own set of deposit bonuses, no-deposit bonuses, entry codes and extra entry codes to 3 different tournaments (bronze, silver and gold.) There are 2 different categories of tournament for VIP and Non-VIP members.

What if a player made a deposit in the last 30 day period but not the current one, did not lose the money, popped it in the safe and came back a later to play it? VIP or not?

What if a player wins 10 dollars on the 1st of the month in a tournament, turns it into 200 dollars worth of real money and sticks in the safe? Should that player deposit more money from outside the casino in addition to the 200 that’s already in the safe in the next 30 days to be considered VIP?

Should the player withdraw the 200 to Moneybookers or some other eWallet, wait a day then redeposit back into the casino so it now counts as a deposit? Or should that money not count at all? Withdraw the money, stick it in your left pocket, reach in your right pocket pull out a brand new 50 dollars and deposit that with some verification that it is not in fact part of the original 200 dollars you won with the 10 dollar tournament win?

What if a player never made a deposit? What if some new player or a player who’s had problems making deposits decided to play a free tournament for Non-VIP members and won 10 dollars, turned that into 200 and stuck that in his or her safe? Is that considered real money? It does say right at the top of the cashier “Play free tournaments, win real money.” So assuming that is true and the 200 dollars is real money, how is that turned into a deposit? Should the player and the casino pay for the cost of withdrawing it and re-depositing for it to qualify as a “real” deposit?

Ok, let’s forget the whole can of worms that new set of deposit rules would open up and look at the logistics of the suggestion some players have had that there should be different tournaments for different levels of vip. (Apart from the 3 different loyalty tournaments.) Because as we all know the reps don’t have nearly enough to do already with setting up free tournaments, VIP tournaments, buy in tournaments, community tournaments, trivia tournaments, sponsored tournaments, chat hunts and chat games. Lets tack on some more like:

VIP/deposited in the last 30 days from outside of the casino tournaments.
VIP/ deposited real money from the safe that they had left over from 30 days ago rather than withdrawing it and re-depositing it tournaments.
VIP/managed to wager 10,000 dollars before losing the 10 dollars they won in a tournament… tournaments?

And of course I’m sure even that would leave them lots of spare time to answer questions like:
“I didn't deposit since the 4th but I did earn 900 loyalty points in the last 30 days. Which tournaments can I play?”
“Will my withdrawal be processed soon? There’s a deposited from outside the casino tournament coming up and I’d like to redeposit my winnings.”

Of course there’s always the option of just not worrying about what everyone else deposited or whether or not they paid their cable bill or if they could afford real Chinese food or had to settle for a bowl of Raman noodles with soy sauce and just be happy for people when they actually manage to win some real money regardless of how they won it even if it means they get to play in the same tournament as you.

 

[blonde]

I've heard this same story many times over. It's not unfair for any player who deposited 50 dollars to play the vip tournaments.

Bottom level vip is vip. If you deposited more and played more you get higher level vip.=

Whoa buddy, first of all I never said who deposits that it is unfair if they play the tournaments. Maybe look over what I posted, thanks! I am excluding myself from this convo as with the past convo's between the two of us leads to nowhere. You posted on the 3dice forum already, so not really sure what the intentions are for this thread, anyway Gl to you skiny.

 

[hokiepoker]

Stop it.... you'll go blind!!!

I've heard this same story many times over. It's not unfair for any player who deposited 50 dollars to play the vip tournaments.

Bottom level vip is vip. If you deposited more and played more you get higher level vip.

A 50 dollar deposit is required to play the vip tournaments each month. As it stood for as long as I've known, deposits from the safe counted as deposits.

Not having to remove your money from the casino is the entire reason behind using the safe. If deposits from the safe don't count as "deposits" then people who want to use their winnings to retain bottom level vip will just have to take at least 50 dollars out of the casino and then deposit back in.

First of all, there are already 17 different categories of player ranging from Member to Platinum with 5 Bronze, 5 Silver and 5 Gold levels in between. Each category has its own set of deposit bonuses, no-deposit bonuses, entry codes and extra entry codes to 3 different tournaments (bronze, silver and gold.) There are 2 different categories of tournament for VIP and Non-VIP members.

What if a player made a deposit in the last 30 day period but not the current one, did not lose the money, popped it in the safe and came back a later to play it? VIP or not?

What if a player wins 10 dollars on the 1st of the month in a tournament, turns it into 200 dollars worth of real money and sticks in the safe? Should that player deposit more money from outside the casino in addition to the 200 that’s already in the safe in the next 30 days to be considered VIP?

Should the player withdraw the 200 to Moneybookers or some other eWallet, wait a day then redeposit back into the casino so it now counts as a deposit? Or should that money not count at all? Withdraw the money, stick it in your left pocket, reach in your right pocket pull out a brand new 50 dollars and deposit that with some verification that it is not in fact part of the original 200 dollars you won with the 10 dollar tournament win?

What if a player never made a deposit? What if some new player or a player who’s had problems making deposits decided to play a free tournament for Non-VIP members and won 10 dollars, turned that into 200 and stuck that in his or her safe? Is that considered real money? It does say right at the top of the cashier “Play free tournaments, win real money.” So assuming that is true and the 200 dollars is real money, how is that turned into a deposit? Should the player and the casino pay for the cost of withdrawing it and re-depositing for it to qualify as a “real” deposit?

Ok, let’s forget the whole can of worms that new set of deposit rules would open up and look at the logistics of the suggestion some players have had that there should be different tournaments for different levels of vip. (Apart from the 3 different loyalty tournaments.) Because as we all know the reps don’t have nearly enough to do already with setting up free tournaments, VIP tournaments, buy in tournaments, community tournaments, trivia tournaments, sponsored tournaments, chat hunts and chat games. Lets tack on some more like:

VIP/deposited in the last 30 days from outside of the casino tournaments.
VIP/ deposited real money from the safe that they had left over from 30 days ago rather than withdrawing it and re-depositing it tournaments.
VIP/managed to wager 10,000 dollars before losing the 10 dollars they won in a tournament… tournaments?

And of course I’m sure even that would leave them lots of spare time to answer questions like:
“I didn't deposit since the 4th but I did earn 900 loyalty points in the last 30 days. Which tournaments can I play?”
“Will my withdrawal be processed soon? There’s a deposited from outside the casino tournament coming up and I’d like to redeposit my winnings.”

Of course there’s always the option of just not worrying about what everyone else deposited or whether or not they paid their cable bill or if they could afford real Chinese food or had to settle for a bowl of Raman noodles with soy sauce and just be happy for people when they actually manage to win some real money regardless of how they won it even if it means they get to play in the same tournament as you.

You need help!!!

 

[Glunn11]

I don't understand why 3Dice doesn't move to a completely playthrough-based VIP model. If you wager $100, it doesn't matter where it came from. You consented to risking $100 and gave 3Dice a long-term cut of that, even though that money was yours and could have been withdrawn at any time. There's no way to abuse that.

It just seems odd to me that they don't do this considering that they already have a playthrough-based comp point system already in place. After all, it's the play that ultimately gives 3Dice their revenue.

 

[LHofsdal]

I personally think that the whole thing should be revamped because of the deposit restrictions placed on the US players. I was a Silver level 1 asteric from gold, now I am a broze level. Nothing I can do about it. I can't deposit like I use to because for some reason I am only approved 1 out of every 5 tries to get one of those vouchers to make a deposit.

So I just watch my status go down. Will I ever leave 3dice, nope, love the place and the people. If that is how they do things, then that is it, nothing I can do about it. Don't really like it but I guess there is nothing to do about it but go with it.

LH

 

[skiny]

Whoa buddy, first of all I never said who deposits that it is unfair if they play the tournaments.

Well, I assumed that's what this meant.

IMO when you play the "safe" game with "gifts" it is not fair to depositors in regards to competition with tournaments etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by "game with gifts." I had a 25 dollar gift. I did play a game with it. I played a lot of games with it. That's how it became 100 dollars. Then I put it in the safe. I could have taken it out of the casino. I didn't.

Then I found out the new rule is if you don't take it out of the casino and redeposit it, it does not count toward your vip. It's no longer "deposited" money.

You posted on the 3dice forum already, so not really sure what the intentions are for this thread,

My intention is to tell people so they don't make the same mistake and I decided to do it here because most people don't read the 3dice forum.

Is that a good enough reason... buddy?

I don't understand why 3Dice doesn't move to a completely playthrough-based VIP model. If you wager $100, it doesn't matter where it came from. You consented to risking $100 and gave 3Dice a long-term cut of that, even though that money was yours and could have been withdrawn at any time. There's no way to abuse that.

It just seems odd to me that they don't do this considering that they already have a playthrough-based comp point system already in place. After all, it's the play that ultimately gives 3Dice their revenue.

Actually nobody seems to understand how the vip system works. Go ask a rep for definitive answers.

The only thing anyone seems to know for sure is you have to deposit 50 dollars a month to play vip tournaments and wager $200(?) for a comp point. After that, it's a mystery.

And I'm not even going to bother with that other post. I think someone's been drinking again.

 

[skiny]

I personally think that the whole thing should be revamped because of the deposit restrictions placed on the US players. I was a Silver level 1 asteric from gold, now I am a broze level. Nothing I can do about it. I can't deposit like I use to because for some reason I am only approved 1 out of every 5 tries to get one of those vouchers to make a deposit.

So I just watch my status go down. Will I ever leave 3dice, nope, love the place and the people. If that is how they do things, then that is it, nothing I can do about it. Don't really like it but I guess there is nothing to do about it but go with it.

LH

I can understand and sympathize with you but I think the US government needs to fix that problem. It's kind of hard to maintain a gold vip level at a casino you can't make deposits to.

 

[butterflyboogie]

I personally think that the whole thing should be revamped because of the deposit restrictions placed on the US players. I was a Silver level 1 asteric from gold, now I am a broze level. Nothing I can do about it. I can't deposit like I use to because for some reason I am only approved 1 out of every 5 tries to get one of those vouchers to make a deposit.

So I just watch my status go down. Will I ever leave 3dice, nope, love the place and the people. If that is how they do things, then that is it, nothing I can do about it. Don't really like it but I guess there is nothing to do about it but go with it.

LH

. I can totally understand what you are saying. I was gold and had worked hard to get there, however for about a month there was only one way to deposit and that wallet only allowed a certain amount weekly, so my level went to the pits. I can honestly say that due to the fact that it was not my fault that the depositing options were not available the VIP levels should not have decreased (IMO). You can't deposit if there is no way to deposit. There is a new option now, however I can say I've slowed down there some. Still like it, love the people, however I was a little disappointed over my VIP level.

 

[3Dice]

Hi Guys,

Allow me to shed some light on the situation here. First off, the 3Dice VIP program is entirely
playthrough based. I know it is not the most simple one - but there is a very good reason for that.
When this system was designed we considered all the simpler systems first.

For example, a deposit based system would have a strong bias towards those players that generate
a lot of transactions .. i.e. it would award those that 'play' the cashier more than the games.
So, although it would be really easy and one could say just deposit x and you'll get to the next
level - it is clearly unfair and encourages abuse.

A simple playthrough based system - play X and you'll get to the next level - doesn't suffer that
problem, but it has another issue - one we call winner comping. The amount of playthrough you get
on a deposit is extremely dependant on how much luck you have. If you have good luck you generate
a big multiple of the playthrough that you do when you have bad luck. So a system like this ends
up comping the lucky players - almost the exact oposite of what we want.

So to solve that problem, one needs a structure that compensates for the extra playthrough you get
because you are lucky. To do this we divide the play on your past 30 days in 3 periods of 10 days.
The average playthrough in each of those 10 days is measured. If two of three of those have an
average playthrough above your current level, then you earn an extra star. If two out of three
of those 10 day blocks have an average playthrough of less than your current level, you lose a star.

Say we have two players (named A and B) - that both deposit and play the same amount X, with the
3Dice system, they will both end at the same loyalty level - and stay stable at that level -
if they hit big and generate a lot more playthrough - that doesn't make them more loyal - it makes
them more lucky - and this system will incorporate that correctly. If however one of the players
starts playing more - then it will only take two blocks of 10 days for the system to detect this
and adjust the players level.

The result is a fair system that does not suffer from the winner comping bias - or the cashier-play
bias. It works very well for the vast majority of players and few manual adjustments are needed.
It is however not perfect, especially at the lower end of the scale (bronze one star), it can
happen that you really have bad luck and while it normally just means a star less for a week
or two - for the bronze* players it means no more VIP tournaments for that time.

That's why an exception was added for that scenario. An average lucky player needs $30/month
to stay bronze* - but if you've had bad luck and do lose your star than a $50 deposit in the
past 30 days will also keep you in the VIP tournaments.

When we detected a while back that people were using the safe to generate that minimum deposit
virtually - it was turned off. In short that means that your safe deposits _still count_ towards
your loyalty - they generate valid playthrough like any other deposit method. But they don't
count for that (exception) scenario of the min $50 deposit.

In short it always comes down to this .. if a system can be abused then you will always have
people doing it. So ask yourself the question - are you one of those ? Cause if so then though
luck - there's a method less now - and if not then great there's one way less for others to
abuse you.

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[fanihi]

WOAH!!!

Hi Guys,

Allow me to shed some light on the situation here. First off, the 3Dice VIP program is entirely
playthrough based. I know it is not the most simple one - but there is a very good reason for that.
When this system was designed we considered all the simpler systems first.

For example, a deposit based system would have a strong bias towards those players that generate
a lot of transactions .. i.e. it would award those that 'play' the cashier more than the games.
So, although it would be really easy and one could say just deposit x and you'll get to the next
level - it is clearly unfair and encourages abuse.

A simple playthrough based system - play X and you'll get to the next level - doesn't suffer that
problem, but it has another issue - one we call winner comping. The amount of playthrough you get
on a deposit is extremely dependant on how much luck you have. If you have good luck you generate
a big multiple of the playthrough that you do when you have bad luck. So a system like this ends
up comping the lucky players - almost the exact oposite of what we want.
So to solve that problem, one needs a structure that compensates for the extra playthrough you get
because you are lucky. To do this we divide the play on your past 30 days in 3 periods of 10 days.
The average playthrough in each of those 10 days is measured. If two of three of those have an
average playthrough above your current level, then you earn an extra star. If two out of three
of those 10 day blocks have an average playthrough of less than your current level, you lose a star.

Say we have two players (named A and B) - that both deposit and play the same amount X, with the
3Dice system, they will both end at the same loyalty level - and stay stable at that level -
if they hit big and generate a lot more playthrough - that doesn't make them more loyal - it makes
them more lucky - and this system will incorporate that correctly. If however one of the players
starts playing more - then it will only take two blocks of 10 days for the system to detect this
and adjust the players level.

The result is a fair system that does not suffer from the winner comping bias - or the cashier-play
bias. It works very well for the vast majority of players and few manual adjustments are needed.
It is however not perfect, especially at the lower end of the scale (bronze one star), it can
happen that you really have bad luck and while it normally just means a star less for a week
or two - for the bronze* players it means no more VIP tournaments for that time.

That's why an exception was added for that scenario. An average lucky player needs $30/month
to stay bronze* - but if you've had bad luck and do lose your star than a $50 deposit in the
past 30 days will also keep you in the VIP tournaments.

When we detected a while back that people were using the safe to generate that minimum deposit
virtually - it was turned off. In short that means that your safe deposits _still count_ towards
your loyalty - they generate valid playthrough like any other deposit method. But they don't
count for that (exception) scenario of the min $50 deposit.

In short it always comes down to this .. if a system can be abused then you will always have
people doing it. So ask yourself the question - are you one of those ? Cause if so then though
luck - there's a method less now - and if not then great there's one way less for others to
abuse you.

Cheers,

Enzo

WOW , it took all of that to explain the system!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Guys,

Allow me to shed some light on the situation here. First off, the 3Dice VIP program is entirely
playthrough based. I know it is not the most simple one - but there is a very good reason for that.
When this system was designed we considered all the simpler systems first.

For example, a deposit based system would have a strong bias towards those players that generate
a lot of transactions .. i.e. it would award those that 'play' the cashier more than the games.
So, although it would be really easy and one could say just deposit x and you'll get to the next
level - it is clearly unfair and encourages abuse.

A simple playthrough based system - play X and you'll get to the next level - doesn't suffer that
problem, but it has another issue - one we call winner comping. The amount of playthrough you get
on a deposit is extremely dependant on how much luck you have. If you have good luck you generate
a big multiple of the playthrough that you do when you have bad luck. So a system like this ends
up comping the lucky players - almost the exact oposite of what we want.

So to solve that problem, one needs a structure that compensates for the extra playthrough you get
because you are lucky. To do this we divide the play on your past 30 days in 3 periods of 10 days.
The average playthrough in each of those 10 days is measured. If two of three of those have an
average playthrough above your current level, then you earn an extra star. If two out of three
of those 10 day blocks have an average playthrough of less than your current level, you lose a star.

Say we have two players (named A and B) - that both deposit and play the same amount X, with the
3Dice system, they will both end at the same loyalty level - and stay stable at that level -
if they hit big and generate a lot more playthrough - that doesn't make them more loyal - it makes
them more lucky - and this system will incorporate that correctly. If however one of the players
starts playing more - then it will only take two blocks of 10 days for the system to detect this
and adjust the players level.

The result is a fair system that does not suffer from the winner comping bias - or the cashier-play
bias. It works very well for the vast majority of players and few manual adjustments are needed.
It is however not perfect, especially at the lower end of the scale (bronze one star), it can
happen that you really have bad luck and while it normally just means a star less for a week
or two - for the bronze* players it means no more VIP tournaments for that time.

That's why an exception was added for that scenario. An average lucky player needs $30/month
to stay bronze* - but if you've had bad luck and do lose your star than a $50 deposit in the
past 30 days will also keep you in the VIP tournaments.

When we detected a while back that people were using the safe to generate that minimum deposit
virtually - it was turned off. In short that means that your safe deposits _still count_ towards
your loyalty - they generate valid playthrough like any other deposit method. But they don't
count for that (exception) scenario of the min $50 deposit.

In short it always comes down to this .. if a system can be abused then you will always have
people doing it. So ask yourself the question - are you one of those ? Cause if so then though
luck - there's a method less now - and if not then great there's one way less for others to
abuse you.

Cheers,

Enzo

Many will see no difference between this, and withdrawing from the casino altogether and redepositing $50. The real "abuse" seems more likely using the SAME $50 month after month, depositing it and then putting it straight back into the safe just to make the exception the rule, and play the tournaments without even trying to retain the appropriate level by making playthrough in the casino. The scope for abuse is just as bad, but it seems that US players have to rely more on the safe to "game the system" than non-US players. This move has only really cut the opportunities for "abuse" from US players, the rest just have to use Moneybookers or Neteller as their "safe".
US players who are willing to deposit, but have no working options, ALSO rely on the safe to give them an available supply of deposits for periods where other methods don't work. These players are also now barred from making their monthly $50 deposit using the safe, yet are not trying to manipulate the system, they just can't get enough deposits to go through to enable them to make enough playthrough, and cannot even get $50 through each month to retain access to the tournaments.

The real answer is to find a deposit method that can be guaranteed to work for $50 per month per player, even if this means limiting the amount processed via this method to keep it "below the radar". If players keep enough in their safe, they can earn and retain their status via playthrough, and would not have to rely on the $50 per month exception.

A manual intervention could be considered for those players who can't, rather than won't, play "fair" with the system, so that an inabilty to deposit via any method does not mean they can't play the tournaments. It would have to be done manually, as an automated system would be easily "gamed" by those seeking to milk the free tournaments, rather than mix free tournament play with casino play.

 

[skiny]

In short it always comes down to this .. if a system can be abused then you will always have
people doing it. So ask yourself the question - are you one of those ? Cause if so then though
luck - there's a method less now - and if not then great there's one way less for others to
abuse you.

Ask myself if I abused anything? The answer is no. I didn't win that money in a tournament. It was a real money deposit that generated over 100 dollars of real money which I put in my safe instead of taking it out of the casino. Nobody I know knew anything about this "method less" until I tried to play vip after losing the 100 dollars and told them. And your explanation verifies my original post. If you have money in your safe and you want to use it to keep a minimum vip level so you can play the tournaments you have to remove it from the casino and then redeposit it back in.

That is not abuse. The money that is in our safes is OUR money. If we have money in the safe there is no reason to deposit more. Why would anyone deposit money into a casino that they already have money in?

It's a little late but now I know the new rules. Next time I won't bother with the safe. Good luck to the US players who can't easily do the same.

Also, if you're going to change the rules that effect how people handle their money in the casino, an appropriate step would be to inform the players.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ask myself if I abused anything? The answer is no. I didn't win that money in a tournament. It was a real money deposit that generated over 100 dollars of real money which I put in my safe instead of taking it out of the casino. Nobody I know knew anything about this "method less" until I tried to play vip after losing the 100 dollars and told them. And your explanation verifies my original post. If you have money in your safe and you want to use it to keep a minimum vip level so you can play the tournaments you have to remove it from the casino and then redeposit it back in.

That is not abuse. The money that is in our safes is OUR money. If we have money in the safe there is no reason to deposit more. Why would anyone deposit money into a casino that they already have money in?

It's a little late but now I know the new rules. Next time I won't bother with the safe. Good luck to the US players who can't easily do the same.

Also, if you're going to change the rules that effect how people handle their money in the casino, an appropriate step would be to inform the players.

I agree, it saves arguments with CS, and players not involved in this "abuse" thinking they have been accused of it.

It is a twist on an old and well known "abuse" method, where a deposit is made, and then immediately withdrawn without any play, in order to qualify for something free. In the past, this has been used to trick casino systems into granting a deposit bonus without the need for the player to risk their own money. This happened because earlier systems often didn't add a bonus straight away, and withdrawing the deposit meant that WR restrictions would only start to apply once the bonus has been credited.

The same thinking would work at 3Dice, $50 from safe to casino, and then straight back to the safe. This $50 would never be risked by the player, but the move would give them another 30 stretch of free tournaments, where they could win some free money. If done well, this would allow players to make steady, if small, long term profits at zero risk to themselves.

Enzo has made things harder by insisting that money must come in from outside, rather than from the safe. It hasn't made it impossible, and it is likely Enzo will have to keep checking and manually adjust some players OUT of the tournaments who are clearly just depositing and withdrawing the same $50 every month over a prolonged period.

It also illustrates something I said a while back when Enzo first said the 3Dice system was "advantage player proof", and they didn't worry too much about advantage players. I said they would still look for a loophole, and clearly they FOUND one If they can find one, they will be looking for others.

 

[nisosbar]

Will I ever leave 3dice, nope, love the place and the people. If that is how they do things, then that is it, nothing I can do about it.

I heart 3Dice!

 

[3Dice]

Ask myself if I abused anything? The answer is no. I didn't win that money in a tournament. It was a real money deposit that generated over 100 dollars of real money which I put in my safe instead of taking it out of the casino. Nobody I know knew anything about this "method less" until I tried to play vip after losing the 100 dollars and told them. And your explanation verifies my original post. If you have money in your safe and you want to use it to keep a minimum vip level so you can play the tournaments you have to remove it from the casino and then redeposit it back in.

That is not abuse. The money that is in our safes is OUR money. If we have money in the safe there is no reason to deposit more. Why would anyone deposit money into a casino that they already have money in?

It's a little late but now I know the new rules. Next time I won't bother with the safe. Good luck to the US players who can't easily do the same.

That's open for interpretation - your last actual deposit was well over a month ago - you didn't withdraw on that. Since then you've only played (many) tourneywins and gifts from other players (which were also tourney wins). The safe withdraw you speak of was won on one of those - not on an actual deposit. Had I implemented this rule earlier you would have had no safe withdraw to begin with - instead you would have lost your VIP status at the beginning of the month which in this case would have been much more fair. (A bronze* player that doesn't deposit or generate enough playthrough for over a month is not supposed to retain his VIP status.)

Also, if you're going to change the rules that effect how people handle their money in the casino, an appropriate step would be to inform the players.

This rule only affects people that were trying to 'ride' the system to begin with - I don't feel we have any obligation towards those particular players - they just make our job more difficult and have a negative impact on our community. Every player that's in the VIP's that shouldn't be reduces the odds for legitimate players to win in those tournaments. The safe is an exceptional withdraw method on which we allow ultimate freedom. The suggestion you make that abusers will now simply use e.g. moneybookers instead of the safe is not valid. Depositing and withdrawing to the safe without actual play is no problem at all - doing that repeatedly to an external processor will result in the transaction costs being subtracted - and if we feel its all just a setup to take advantage of the $50 exception - which is in place for unlucky players - then it'll simply result in closure of the account. We have free tournaments that are always open to everyone - the VIP tournaments however are for the players that generate enough play to stay in the VIP system - and we owe it to those regular and valued players to make sure that the same requirements to get in apply to everyone.

I sincerely doubt any legitimate players have been impacted by this rule (we've verified who was going to be impacted before this was implemented) - and even if that were the case, I know for a fact that my support team is quite capable of assessing the situation and make manual adjustments where needed.

Regards,

Enzo

 

[skiny]

I agree, it saves arguments with CS, and players not involved in this "abuse" thinking they have been accused of it.

It is a twist on an old and well known "abuse" method, where a deposit is made, and then immediately withdrawn without any play, in order to qualify for something free. In the past, this has been used to trick casino systems into granting a deposit bonus without the need for the player to risk their own money. This happened because earlier systems often didn't add a bonus straight away, and withdrawing the deposit meant that WR restrictions would only start to apply once the bonus has been credited.

The same thinking would work at 3Dice, $50 from safe to casino, and then straight back to the safe. This $50 would never be risked by the player, but the move would give them another 30 stretch of free tournaments, where they could win some free money. If done well, this would allow players to make steady, if small, long term profits at zero risk to themselves.

Enzo has made things harder by insisting that money must come in from outside, rather than from the safe. It hasn't made it impossible, and it is likely Enzo will have to keep checking and manually adjust some players OUT of the tournaments who are clearly just depositing and withdrawing the same $50 every month over a prolonged period.

It also illustrates something I said a while back when Enzo first said the 3Dice system was "advantage player proof", and they didn't worry too much about advantage players. I said they would still look for a loophole, and clearly they FOUND one If they can find one, they will be looking for others.

The only advantage I received was I didn't have to withdraw the money and redeposit it. I didn't "move the money back and forth" for any reason other than to play it. I won 100 dollars. I put it in the safe. Later I took it back out in smaller amounts and lost it. If that's abuse then anyone who uses the safe is abusing the system.

By the way, when I had vip status last year I was told I was abusing the system because my vip level increased due to my safe activity. So apparently moving your money in and out of the safe for any reason is abusing the system. 3Dice created a system that generated higher vip levels with deposits from the safe and counted the safe deposits as real money deposits and then decided doing so is abusing the system.

At the same time I know one player who made very regular deposits, almost weekly and had a steady decline in vip levels and when a complaint was made he was told he should have MORE safe activity at the same time they were telling me I shouldn't gain vip levels from safe activity even though I have no control over what the system does when I use the safe.

Actually the more I discuss this the more broken the entire system seems to me. I'm not much of a gambler anymore. I play the tournaments more to kill time than anything else. The casino advertises right in the cashier "Play free tournaments, win real money." I'm assuming doing this isn't abuse since it's blatently advertised. I also have to assume when the players play free tournaments and win "real money" the money IS real money and the money now belongs to the player. Once this happens a player has no reason to deposit more money if the player already has money in the casino but still cannot play the vip tournaments until that money is removed from the casino and then redeposited. (Under the new rule.)

Also if the player has a vip status and puts his winnings in the safe and takes it out to play in smaller amounts the system automatically counts these deposits from the safe toward higher vip levels yet when I had a string of decent hits that I could keep in the safe and take back out to play at my leisure the casino considered this abuse to the system even though I have no control what the system does.

I'm starting to think the whole system just abuses itself.

I heart 3Dice!

I heart being told of changes that effect the way I handle my money.

 

[nisosbar]

I heart being told of changes that effect the way I handle my money.

And I'm sure you also heart Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt and all the other fun places you Canadians get to play.

 

[3Dice]

Actually the more I discuss this the more broken the entire system seems to me. I'm not much of a gambler anymore. I play the tournaments more to kill time than anything else. The casino advertises right in the cashier "Play free tournaments, win real money." I'm assuming doing this isn't abuse since it's blatently advertised. I also have to assume when the players play free tournaments and win "real money" the money IS real money and the money now belongs to the player. Once this happens a player has no reason to deposit more money if the player already has money in the casino but still cannot play the vip tournaments until that money is removed from the casino and then redeposited. (Under the new rule.)

Not at all - like I said before money deposited from the safe will still earn you comp points and thus increase your vip level. Money deposited from the safe just doesn't contribute to the _exception_ scenario where a bronze player has made deposits and played but had such bad luck that he would lose his vip status. Keeping money in your safe so you can qualify for that exception scenario - not cool. Keeping money in your safe to play later - no problem at all - it will retain and improve your VIP level - and you'd have no interest in withdrawing/redepositing that externally.

By your own admission - you're not much of a gambler anymore - and are just trying to stay in the VIP system. Well we have free tournaments - just so we're clear that's not the VIP tournaments, but the ones at the top of the tournament list labeled 'free tournaments'. The VIP tournaments are not free - they are a perk for our regular depositing players. It's our responsibility to make sure that the VIP system stays fair and doesn't get filled up with people that are intentionally trying to minimize their effort with as only goal to retain VIP access - that's just not the idea behind it.

In all this, let me make a crucial sidenote - when I put this rule in place I very much expected some of the people to complain loudly. Allow me to note that this new rule doesn't save me a penny - I still have to pay all tournament prizes - I just sleep a lot better knowing the large budget spent on VIP tournaments is going back to the loyal players and not the ones looking for loopholes in the system.

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[skiny]

That's open for interpretation - your last actual deposit was well over a month ago - you didn't withdraw on that. Since then you've only played (many) tourneywins and gifts from other players (which were also tourney wins). The safe withdraw you speak of was won on one of those - not on an actual deposit. Had I implemented this rule earlier you would have had no safe withdraw to begin with - instead you would have lost your VIP status at the beginning of the month which in this case would have been much more fair. (A bronze* player that doesn't deposit or generate enough playthrough for over a month is not supposed to retain his VIP status.)

My deposit wasn't the point. And I didn't have "many gifts from other players." I had ONE. And I'm assuming if that player was able to send me a gift is was HIS money. Where he got that money is irrelevant unless the casino considers all money in the casino "casino property." The fact and the reality is I had 25 dollars of my own money. Where I got it is nobody's business unless the casino gave it to me themselves. If another player gave it to me or my next door neighbour did it's all the same. It's money that belong to someone else and they gave it to me. I won 100 dollars in real money playing your games fair and square and I put it in my safe. I now have 100 dollars of my own money. And if I had known you had changed your rules I would have withdrawn it completely. I have no idea where anyone gets the idea that using 100 dollars of my own money to make the required 50 dollar deposit is abusing anything but it's simply ridiculous. If that 100 dollars was sitting in my safe or in my front pocket it is still my 100 dollars and tournament play had NOTHING to do with that money.

I'm not sure if you are aware of it but people gamble every day at all different casinos. They win money and they withdraw it and then they use that money to redeposit and take new bonuses with the money they won. Once the money is withdrawn it is not abuse to redeposit it back at the same casino or anywhere else on the planet just because the player benefits from the new deposit. So now apparently if a player wins enough to withdraw 50 dollars and redeposits it at a later date, the vip status they gain from it is abuse because they didn't have to deposit their own money back into the casino? It's starting to look like if any player doesn't have to give the casino at least some of their own money every month they're abusing the system. That pretty much eliminates any reason for a low roller to gamble. You can never get ahead. "I'm up 50 dollars but I might as well lose it because still have to deposit a new 50 dollars to play vip tournaments. If I withdraw this 50 dollars I'll be considered a system abuser later when I make my 50 dollar deposit."

This rule only affects people that were trying to 'ride' the system to begin with - I don't feel we have any obligation towards those particular players - they just make our job more difficult and have a negative impact on our community. Every player that's in the VIP's that shouldn't be reduces the odds for legitimate players to win in those tournaments. The safe is an exceptional withdraw method on which we allow ultimate freedom. The suggestion you make that abusers will now simply use e.g. moneybookers instead of the safe is not valid. Depositing and withdrawing to the safe without actual play is no problem at all - doing that repeatedly to an external processor will result in the transaction costs being subtracted - and if we feel its all just a setup to take advantage of the $50 exception - which is in place for unlucky players - then it'll simply result in closure of the account. We have free tournaments that are always open to everyone - the VIP tournaments however are for the players that generate enough play to stay in the VIP system - and we owe it to those regular and valued players to make sure that the same requirements to get in apply to everyone.

Once again you talk like using 50 dollars won at the casino to deposit the vip requirement is an abuse. You do run a casino. Any money the players win is real money and belongs to the player. Just because a player doesn't win very much or very often doesn't mean what they did win isn't real money. And now you're saying that if a player wins 50 dollars or more they can't put it in the safe and take it back out as they're monthly deposit and they can't take it out of the casino to Moneybookers and use it for their monthly deposit. Apparently when a player wins 50 dollars it's not real money? It doesn't belong to the player? Or is it just a case of the casino not liking the fact that sometimes people win enough to keep their vip status without making a deposit? That's how casinos work. Some people are ahead. Most are not but some people are. And some people use the money they won to redeposit. And those new deposits regardless of where they play count toward the same bonuses and benefits as anyone else

I sincerely doubt any legitimate players have been impacted by this rule (we've verified who was going to be impacted before this was implemented) - and even if that were the case, I know for a fact that my support team is quite capable of assessing the situation and make manual adjustments where needed.

All "players" are legitimate players. I don't think anyone at your casino appreciate being considered not a legitimate player because they didn't deposit every single month.

And now I understand. You went through the players and picked out the ones that won enough to keep playing vip tournaments without making a deposit and "fixed" it.

Well, it's all good. Casinos can do whatever they like but I think there should be a term in the agreement that says you HAVE to deposit 50 dollars more than you withdrew each month to keep vip status. Because if you win 50 dollars and withdraw it, redepositing it is an abuse.

 

[skiny]

By your own admission - you're not much of a gambler anymore - and are just trying to stay in the VIP system. Well we have free tournaments - just so we're clear that's not the VIP tournaments, but the ones at the top of the tournament list labeled 'free tournaments'. The VIP tournaments are not free - they are a perk for our regular depositing players. It's our responsibility to make sure that the VIP system stays fair and doesn't get filled up with people that are intentionally trying to minimize their effort with as only goal to retain VIP access - that's just not the idea behind it.

Free tournaments that win "real money." Just so we're clear if you do win real money it's not real money that can be used to get vip status. If you put the money in the safe or take it out of the casino you have to deposit 50 dollars more than the real money you won?

 

[skiny]

And I'm sure you also heart Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt and all the other fun places you Canadians get to play.

I've played at all of them and even casinos I haven't played at in years still send me the odd email telling me something is changed.

 

[nisosbar]

I've played at all of them and even casinos I haven't played at in years still send me the odd email telling me something is changed.

I don't understand your point here. If your point is that you are losing 'too much' at online casinos lately, then please just say so. Or that all casinos have tightened their RTP...?

Can you please explain. Thanks.

 

[skiny]

I don't understand your point here. If your point is that you are losing 'too much' at online casinos lately, then please just say so. Or that all casinos have tightened their RTP...?

Can you please explain. Thanks.

My original point to your post was that some casinos I haven't played at in years inform me of changes. Apparently all members are "legitimate."

 

[bb28]

Skiny......although your complaint might have some validity, it's difficult to root it out from all of your posts in this thread. The more you post the more petty and small it becomes and also I for one can accept Enzo's explanation as it seemed quite reasonable. You wouldn't be trying to take advantage would you?

Clearly you have an ax to grind with 3D from looking at your past posts regarding them. If 3 D is such a thorn in your foot, I don't get why you just don't quit playing there. Why do you?

 

[cpdnd31]

OK after reading and rereading this thread I think there are 2 main issues going on here- DO NOT JUMP ON ME TRYING TO STAY IMPARTIAL AND DISSECT THE PROBLEM.

Issue number 1 casino side.

Player A wins 100.00 player A gifts 50 to player B. Player B then takes gift puts in safe for a day or 2 and then deposits it. Player B does not play in it and passes it back to player A and or now player C -

These players are abusing the system by passing the same 50 and depositing it to keep there VIP Tournament status.

2nd situation-Player side

Player a who does not gamble as often gets a gift- of below min amount required to deposit to maintain status. Said player plays on amount wins and puts money in safe. Then player redeposits amount over min needed of lets say 100- and plays and loses. Player A then goes to play tournament and is told he is no longer VIP. Even tho he did spend 100 on casino games.

I understand the abuse going on in situation number 1 however if a player plays 100 on games no matter how he received that 100 I feel he should be allowed to keep his VIP status. He did spend the money playing. As far as comp points keeping him in his VIP level. You can't count on that I am well over 30 deposits with no wins and or playtime. If i can't get playtime I cant build the comp points to build my VIP status up. As well as my bet size which we all know helps keep us up on our VIP level as well. My point is on scenario number 1 I can see the proof of abuse however on scenario number 2 I don't. He played 100 when all that is needed was 50. Unless I missing something. It seems plain and simple to me.

There will always be people who are able to bend the rules- however what rule was broken or bent by receiving money- playing money -winning money and then losing money.

Now here is another ? we all know USA has a hard time depositing at 3Dice. So let's say I as a regular player who was also effected by this - was gifted (because at one point brokering was turned off for certain people) - so lets say I made outside arrangements with someone and they gifted me 25 and I played and won am I then too affected by this new rule? Once I do get money below 300 I keep in safe to play on just so I don't have to jump thru hoops or occur more charges to redeposit.

I understand what Enzo is saying but as a player I also see Skinys side.

If you know people are abusing the system lock there accounts kick them out say goodbye- what good are they if they are cheating.

But to pick and choose people to implement a new rule upon is not fair either- It should be all for one and one for all.

Like I said in the beginning this is just a neutral thought and not intended to bash anyone so please don't bash me.

 

[skiny]

Skiny......although your complaint might have some validity, it's difficult to root it out from all of your posts in this thread. The more you post the more petty and small it becomes and also I for one can accept Enzo's explanation as it seemed quite reasonable. You wouldn't be trying to take advantage would you?

Clearly you have an ax to grind with 3D from looking at your past posts regarding them. If 3 D is such a thorn in your foot, I don't get why you just don't quit playing there. Why do you?

Actually I was having a time keeping up. I answered one post and when I posted it there was a new one under it.

People seem to be under the impression that I dislike 3Dice. Enzo and I have had our differences and on occasion we actually do agree. I've had good things and bad things to say about many casinos. I'm not the kind of person to mince my words hoping not to offend people. I say what I feel, sometimes people like it, sometimes they don't.

3Dice is not a "bad" casino. The games are interesting they pay out quicker than anyone that I know of and there are a lot of people that play there that I like. Some of them actually like me.

There is a possibility that you can win big at this casino but like all casinos there is a likelihood that you will just lose. The tournament system has always been a bonus for people who play here. Especially the players who do not deposit often. I haven't looked at the rest of the bonus system very closely but I've heard it said that without the tournaments the rest of the system is no better than any other casino and in fact worse than some. For me this is hearsay so you would have to check this out yourself.

As for this thread, changes were made that I wasn't aware of and if I had known I might have done things differently. Maybe that's why I wasn't aware of them. I don't know. I decided to let other people know who this might effect. I thought people should known in spite of Enzo's claim that he doesn't have to inform "Illegitimate" players of changes to the rules.

Today it seemed like a race to respond to posts before new ones were made. Maybe I'm just getting old.

edit -- You see, Choc posted while I was typing this! You people are too fast for me.

 

[Nifty29]

Actually I was having a time keeping up. I answered one post and when I posted it there was a new one under it.

People seem to be under the impression that I dislike 3Dice. Enzo and I have had our differences and on occasion we actually do agree. I've had good things and bad things to say about many casinos. I'm not the kind of person to mince my words hoping not to offend people. I say what I feel, sometimes people like it, sometimes they don't.

3Dice is not a "bad" casino. The games are interesting they pay out quicker than anyone that I know of and there are a lot of people that play there that I like. Some of them actually like me.

There is a possibility that you can win big at this casino but like all casinos there is a likelihood that you will just lose. The tournament system has always been a bonus for people who play here. Especially the players who do not deposit often. I haven't looked at the rest of the bonus system very closely but I've heard it said that without the tournaments the rest of the system is no better than any other casino and in fact worse than some. For me this is hearsay so you would have to check this out yourself.

As for this thread, changes were made that I wasn't aware of and if I had known I might have done things differently. Maybe that's why I wasn't aware of them. I don't know. I decided to let other people know who this might effect. I thought people should known in spite of Enzo's claim that he doesn't have to inform "Illegitimate" players of changes to the rules.

Today it seemed like a race to respond to posts before new ones were made. Maybe I'm just getting old.

edit -- You see, Choc posted while I was typing this! You people are too fast for me.

Are you saying that you did not move money in and out of the safe with the sole aim of becoming eligible for VIP tournaments? It kinda looks like that's what you were doing. What also makes me think that is the way you reacted to the decision. If it wasn't your intention to recycle your casino balance to retain permanent access to VIP perks (which is what the VIP tourneys are) then I wouldn't have thought it would even have warranted a post, let alone several. A regular player who just deposits and withdraws and wins and loses as in any other casino wouldn't give two hoots about this change....I know I don't, and it seems nobody else has been affected here in this thread either.

I see your point about money in the safe being "yours", but I also see Enzo's point that players such as yourself are taking unfair advantage of the VIP system by recycling the same funds just to enter the VIP tournaments. It seems you seldom deposit money, and seldom play the regular games either, only the tourneys...and as Enzo said, there ARE free tourneys for everyone and for those who cannot afford to deposit.

Personally, I think the best way to avoid this situation is not to manually exclude players or restrict safe transactions, but rather to have a higher minimum entry level for the VIP tourneys e.g. Have Bronze 3 as the minimum requirement. In this way, players would have to actually give the casino some action in return for the perks.

I do not believe that someone who seldom deposits and plays only via gifts and free tourney wins should receive the same benefits as someone who deposits and plays regularly e.g. places their own personal funds at risk, rather than just winnings from someone else's money. It's not a personal thing against you as I have always held this view.

I also think you're starting to get petty in concentrating on the "legitimate" player comment made by Enzo. You know exactly what he was referring to, and your argument, as someone else mentioned, is being diluted by your insistence on being unnecessarily pedantic about individual words and phrases. You already made your argument well. I just don't 100% agree with it.

 

[bb28]

Actually I was having a time keeping up. I answered one post and when I posted it there was a new one under it.

People seem to be under the impression that I dislike 3Dice. Enzo and I have had our differences and on occasion we actually do agree. I've had good things and bad things to say about many casinos. I'm not the kind of person to mince my words hoping not to offend people. I say what I feel, sometimes people like it, sometimes they don't.

3Dice is not a "bad" casino. The games are interesting they pay out quicker than anyone that I know of and there are a lot of people that play there that I like. Some of them actually like me.

There is a possibility that you can win big at this casino but like all casinos there is a likelihood that you will just lose. The tournament system has always been a bonus for people who play here. Especially the players who do not deposit often. I haven't looked at the rest of the bonus system very closely but I've heard it said that without the tournaments the rest of the system is no better than any other casino and in fact worse than some. For me this is hearsay so you would have to check this out yourself.

As for this thread, changes were made that I wasn't aware of and if I had known I might have done things differently. Maybe that's why I wasn't aware of them. I don't know. I decided to let other people know who this might effect. I thought people should known in spite of Enzo's claim that he doesn't have to inform "Illegitimate" players of changes to the rules.

Today it seemed like a race to respond to posts before new ones were made. Maybe I'm just getting old.

edit -- You see, Choc posted while I was typing this! You people are too fast for me.

Maybe my blonde is coming out but this whole thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense..........unless you were trying to pull one over on 3 D in order to keep your vip status to play the tourneys. Seriously.....why not just deposit the 50 bucks and be done with it?

I feel a little bad about calling you out skiny but I was bored one night and did a search for 3 D threads and there were numerous ones that you started complaining about one thing or the other. Well we all have a right to moan and groan on occasion but it seems to be excessive from you as it relates to 3 D. Also you have many similar threads over at the 3 D forum also.
So what is the real deal here Skiny? Like I said in the above, why not just deposit your 50 bucks and deal with it like the rest of us?

 

[skiny]

Are you saying that you did not move money in and out of the safe with the sole aim of becoming eligible for VIP tournaments?

I moved the money to the safe so I could take it out and play it at my leisure. My playing habits and strategies may not be the same as yours but it's not an uncommon practice at 3Dice. People use the safe to store winnings and take smaller amounts out to play with. It's not an unacceptable practice.

It kinda looks like that's what you were doing.

People will see what they want to see. Maybe what you see is wrong. What I see is you siding with the casino in pretty much every complaint I've ever read. Maybe what I see is wrong. But I guess we all have our own way of perceiving things.

What also makes me think that is the way you reacted to the decision. If it wasn't your intention to recycle your casino balance to retain permanent access to VIP perks (which is what the VIP tourneys are) then I wouldn't have thought it would even have warranted a post, let alone several. A regular player who just deposits and withdraws and wins and loses as in any other casino wouldn't give two hoots about this change....I know I don't, and it seems nobody else has been affected here in this thread either.

I'm not sure what you think was recycled. I put the money in all at once and took it out a little at a time. I lost it all and then noticed that it didn't count toward vip. This is a new rule. A rule I knew nothing about and assumed nobody else did either. A new unannounced rule warrants a discussion. Just like someone's birthday warrants a discussion or help with a scanned picture warrants a discussion or a joke or a movie. People are welcome to read every title or the first paragraph of every thread started here and if they have no interest they are just as welcome to move along. As for "several" posts, as long as people continue to discuss it or give their opinions I see no reason not to remain in the discussion. Especially when the new posts are directed to me. Or should I have started the thread and ended the first post with "Ok, discuss this amongst yourselves?"

I see your point about money in the safe being "yours", but I also see Enzo's point that players such as yourself are taking unfair advantage of the VIP system by recycling the same funds just to enter the VIP tournaments. It seems you seldom deposit money, and seldom play the regular games either, only the tourneys...and as Enzo said, there ARE free tourneys for everyone and for those who cannot afford to deposit.

Again you mention recycling money. No money was recycled. If I had not made a deposit in 6 months it would and should have changed nothing. There was a single gift to my account. I played that money, won more money with it and put the lump in my safe to play later. That is not abuse. That is a general practice. You also seem to be under the impression that the only reason people don't deposit at casinos is because they can't afford to. It doesn't matter if it was me or anyone else and it doesn't matter if I deposited every day or haven't done so in a year. The gift was real money that did not belong to the casino before it was sent to me and did not belong to the casino after it was sent to me. With that real money I won more. I know it's surprising but it does happen once in a while. Now this being a "real" casino, the money I won with the gift is also supposed to be real money. Real money that belongs to me not the casino. Now I have much more real money and if I decide I want to use that real money to make the monthly deposit that allows me to play vip games it is my choice. It is not abuse. The only difference now is I have to remove it from the casino first. And apparently if I win enough money playing these casino games that I don't have to use my own money to make a deposit that is abuse as well so at some point I have to lose all of my money and then deposit or deposit more than I won? Basically it seems like if you win often enough that you use the casinos money more than your own you eventually get a rap on the knuckles.

Personally, I think the best way to avoid this situation is not to manually exclude players or restrict safe transactions, but rather to have a higher minimum entry level for the VIP tourneys e.g. Have Bronze 3 as the minimum requirement. In this way, players would have to actually give the casino some action in return for the perks.

Set the rules how you like. Everyone I know is following them. If they change and everyone is aware of the changes everyone will continue following them. Of course you might get some arguments from the "unlucky" people who are bronze 2 and have deposited twice as much as someone who is a "lucky" bronze 3.

I do not believe that someone who seldom deposits and plays only via gifts and free tourney wins should receive the same benefits as someone who deposits and plays regularly e.g. places their own personal funds at risk, rather than just winnings from someone else's money. It's not a personal thing against you as I have always held this view.

Gift.

By the way, you do realize it's probably impossible to maintain a vip level of any kind stricktly off tournament wins? I've managed to win enough on occassion to pay for the vip deposit but nobody I know of ever maintained a vip for any long period of time using only tournament wins and I don't think I need to stress again that money won at the casino belongs to the player. If I have $10,000 cash and 200 of it is in my safe at 3Dice it's still part of my $10,000. It makes no difference how it got there.

I also think you're starting to get petty in concentrating on the "legitimate" player comment made by Enzo. You know exactly what he was referring to, and your argument, as someone else mentioned, is being diluted by your insistence on being unnecessarily pedantic about individual words and phrases. You already made your argument well. I just don't 100% agree with it.

You're more than welcome not to agree with it. I take no offence to anyone not agreeing with my opinions. I don't need to be offended to offer my rebuttal. I do love a good debate. I don't even mind being called pedantic.

Maybe my blonde is coming out but this whole thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense..........unless you were trying to pull one over on 3 D in order to keep your vip status to play the tourneys. Seriously.....why not just deposit the 50 bucks and be done with it?

You're right. Your blonde is coming out. But nobody is holding it against you.

I feel a little bad about calling you out skiny but I was bored one night and did a search for 3 D threads and there were numerous ones that you started complaining about one thing or the other. Well we all have a right to moan and groan on occasion but it seems to be excessive from you as it relates to 3 D. Also you have many similar threads over at the 3 D forum also.
So what is the real deal here Skiny?

I've made about 1200 posts in this forum and yes, it's true some of them were complaints. I don't think I need offer appologies for giving my honest
opinions. I won't ask for yours if you don't care to read them.

Like I said in the above, why not just deposit your 50 bucks and deal with it like the rest of us?

I did deposit "my" 50 bucks. In fact I deposited twice that.

 

[heatherad]

Are you saying that you did not move money in and out of the safe with the sole aim of becoming eligible for VIP tournaments? It kinda looks like that's what you were doing. What also makes me think that is the way you reacted to the decision. If it wasn't your intention to recycle your casino balance to retain permanent access to VIP perks (which is what the VIP tourneys are) then I wouldn't have thought it would even have warranted a post, let alone several. A regular player who just deposits and withdraws and wins and loses as in any other casino wouldn't give two hoots about this change....I know I don't, and it seems nobody else has been affected here in this thread either.

I see your point about money in the safe being "yours", but I also see Enzo's point that players such as yourself are taking unfair advantage of the VIP system by recycling the same funds just to enter the VIP tournaments. It seems you seldom deposit money, and seldom play the regular games either, only the tourneys...and as Enzo said, there ARE free tourneys for everyone and for those who cannot afford to deposit.

Personally, I think the best way to avoid this situation is not to manually exclude players or restrict safe transactions, but rather to have a higher minimum entry level for the VIP tourneys e.g. Have Bronze 3 as the minimum requirement. In this way, players would have to actually give the casino some action in return for the perks.

I do not believe that someone who seldom deposits and plays only via gifts and free tourney wins should receive the same benefits as someone who deposits and plays regularly e.g. places their own personal funds at risk, rather than just winnings from someone else's money. It's not a personal thing against you as I have always held this view.

I also think you're starting to get petty in concentrating on the "legitimate" player comment made by Enzo. You know exactly what he was referring to, and your argument, as someone else mentioned, is being diluted by your insistence on being unnecessarily pedantic about individual words and phrases. You already made your argument well. I just don't 100% agree with it.

I actually agree with what you posted.
I truly believe a VIP player should be entitled to those special little perks. As you stated, it is what distinguishes them from the player who seldom deposits and plays at any casino.
Im just on the fence about this *safe* thing mostly because its been about a year or so since I even looked at 3Dice so Im not familiar with things going on there anymore. Personally I don't think there should be restrictions on money in the safe but on the other hand if an abuser of the system can use it to their advantage over players who deposit on a regular basis and maintain their VIP level then perhaps having the *safe* is not a sound option. They will have a few disgruntled players no matter what.
I also need to say that I do agree with some aspects of skinnys posts as well.

 

[Jasminebed]

One of the reasons 3Dice gave players a "safe" was to reduce processing costs for the casino.

US players usually incur quite heavy fees in depositing, and the methods used to pay them are probably not low-cost for 3Dice either.

If I got lucky, banked $1 K and deposited back $100 per week, I'd be shocked to find after 30 days I was no longer VIP.

3Dice is free to make whatever rules it likes, but it is always good to know the rules you are playing by.

 

[zap987]

I think you need to think of something else to achieve what you want Enzo, the simple fact is that, assuming those $50 in the safe are withdrawable, it would be easy enough to withdraw to an ewallet and redeposit to meet the requirements. You might catch some people for one month but after that it will be back to normal with the only change being a bit more processing costs for the casino.

How about making the special case not look at deposits but instead results, if at any point the player is at -$50 or more for the period they qualify just the same as they do now by making a $50 deposit, or they can qualify normally by generating playthrough. It would get people just having bad luck in and would be safe from abuse, you actually need to lose to get taken in under the $50 protection for lowest VIP level.

 

[maphesto]

I can see the casinos view, but the safe is probably there because the casino wants to reduce processing costs. To exclude "safe-deposits" from those 50$ you have to deposit to play a few more tournaments shows us that 3Dice sees the safe money as already deposited. And why then, as a player, use the safe?

The idea behind the safe is very smart, the gift possibility is also very smart. Those things are keeping down the processing fees for the casino. And, let´s not forget, the safe probably reduce the amounts of withdrawn money from the casino. The safe may even be seen as a "reversal period" as players can "reverse/deposit" from the safe whenever they want. This is no criticism, because the player can make the real withdrawal whenever they want. It´s still up to the player.

3Dice is offering free tournaments everyday, they have the fastest payouts, which makes it hard to believe that it´s greed behind the decision to demand real deposits instead of "safe-deposits".

About the safe, the idea is good, is it illegal for casinos/poker rooms/sportsbooks to share a safe? Deposit to 3Dice, put in safe, use at 32Red, put in safe... Maybe only at NON US facing casinos?

But, Enzo, I think you should reconsider your decision! Show us that the safe is seen as the players money, and not as already deposited!

 

[Nifty29]

I moved the money to the safe so I could take it out and play it at my leisure. My playing habits and strategies may not be the same as yours but it's not an uncommon practice at 3Dice. People use the safe to store winnings and take smaller amounts out to play with. It's not an unacceptable practice.



People will see what they want to see. Maybe what you see is wrong. What I see is you siding with the casino in pretty much every complaint I've ever read. Maybe what I see is wrong. But I guess we all have our own way of perceiving things.




I'm not sure what you think was recycled. I put the money in all at once and took it out a little at a time. I lost it all and then noticed that it didn't count toward vip. This is a new rule. A rule I knew nothing about and assumed nobody else did either. A new unannounced rule warrants a discussion. Just like someone's birthday warrants a discussion or help with a scanned picture warrants a discussion or a joke or a movie. People are welcome to read every title or the first paragraph of every thread started here and if they have no interest they are just as welcome to move along. As for "several" posts, as long as people continue to discuss it or give their opinions I see no reason not to remain in the discussion. Especially when the new posts are directed to me. Or should I have started the thread and ended the first post with "Ok, discuss this amongst yourselves?"



Again you mention recycling money. No money was recycled. If I had not made a deposit in 6 months it would and should have changed nothing. There was a single gift to my account. I played that money, won more money with it and put the lump in my safe to play later. That is not abuse. That is a general practice. You also seem to be under the impression that the only reason people don't deposit at casinos is because they can't afford to. It doesn't matter if it was me or anyone else and it doesn't matter if I deposited every day or haven't done so in a year. The gift was real money that did not belong to the casino before it was sent to me and did not belong to the casino after it was sent to me. With that real money I won more. I know it's surprising but it does happen once in a while. Now this being a "real" casino, the money I won with the gift is also supposed to be real money. Real money that belongs to me not the casino. Now I have much more real money and if I decide I want to use that real money to make the monthly deposit that allows me to play vip games it is my choice. It is not abuse. The only difference now is I have to remove it from the casino first. And apparently if I win enough money playing these casino games that I don't have to use my own money to make a deposit that is abuse as well so at some point I have to lose all of my money and then deposit or deposit more than I won? Basically it seems like if you win often enough that you use the casinos money more than your own you eventually get a rap on the knuckles.



Set the rules how you like. Everyone I know is following them. If they change and everyone is aware of the changes everyone will continue following them. Of course you might get some arguments from the "unlucky" people who are bronze 2 and have deposited twice as much as someone who is a "lucky" bronze 3.



Gift.

By the way, you do realize it's probably impossible to maintain a vip level of any kind stricktly off tournament wins? I've managed to win enough on occassion to pay for the vip deposit but nobody I know of ever maintained a vip for any long period of time using only tournament wins and I don't think I need to stress again that money won at the casino belongs to the player. If I have $10,000 cash and 200 of it is in my safe at 3Dice it's still part of my $10,000. It makes no difference how it got there.





You're more than welcome not to agree with it. I take no offence to anyone not agreeing with my opinions. I don't need to be offended to offer my rebuttal. I do love a good debate. I don't even mind being called pedantic.



You're right. Your blonde is coming out. But nobody is holding it against you.



I've made about 1200 posts in this forum and yes, it's true some of them were complaints. I don't think I need offer appologies for giving my honest
opinions. I won't ask for yours if you don't care to read them.



I did deposit "my" 50 bucks. In fact I deposited twice that.

People will see what they want to see. Maybe what you see is wrong. What I see is you whining in pretty much every post of yours I've ever read. Maybe what I see is wrong. But I guess we all have our own way of perceiving things.

The fact that you're now resorting to correcting word usage, incorrectly I may add, shows just how weak your argument is, along with your methods.

3dice caught you, and others, manipulating their system to attain VIP perks. Get over it.

 

[footdr]

Personally I don't take advantage of playing free tournaments at casinos I can't deposit at. The problem with 3Dice since QT gone is there isn't any easy method of deposit.

I cashed out a few times over 2 years but still in the red there and comps poor as are bonuses.

 

[ShayDrew]

One of the reasons 3Dice gave players a "safe" was to reduce processing costs for the casino.

US players usually incur quite heavy fees in depositing, and the methods used to pay them are probably not low-cost for 3Dice either.

If I got lucky, banked $1 K and deposited back $100 per week, I'd be shocked to find after 30 days I was no longer VIP.

3Dice is free to make whatever rules it likes, but it is always good to know the rules you are playing by.

Hey Jas,

But you would be VIP as the playthrough on each of the $100 lots would make you a bronze (something) star or higher so you would retain VIP status.

 

[ShayDrew]

Interesting thread - overall I have to agree with Nifty - up the VIP level for VIP tourneys - reward loyal players - loyal players that only deposit $50 a month to play all month on tourneys are not that loyal at all - the VIP tourneys are great - level playing field every hour for $10 - that is a good perk that you should be a loyal player to get.

 

[skiny]

People will see what they want to see. Maybe what you see is wrong. What I see is you whining in pretty much every post of yours I've ever read. Maybe what I see is wrong. But I guess we all have our own way of perceiving things.

The fact that you're now resorting to correcting word usage, incorrectly I may add, shows just how weak your argument is, along with your methods.

3dice caught you, and others, manipulating their system to attain VIP perks. Get over it.

That made me grin. Seriously.

You have a reputation here that I'm not going to get into in any read depth because I don't care. I take every thread on a post by post basis regardless of reputation. If you see me whining or complaining in every thread I've ever posted it only means you don't read very many posts. That's entirely up to you although I'm not sure how you managed to be so selective.

3Dice caught me receiving a single gift and winning money with it. Then they caught me putting it in the safe and then they caught me taking it back out and losing all of it. That is how far your statement remains correct. You can repeat the rest of your accusations a million times and it won't make them any more correct. In fact the stance you've taken for the casino (every casino) against the player (every player) in pretty much every thread I've ever read decreases your credibility in such a debate to the point of being inconsequential.

But like I said, I take every thread on a post by post basis and answer them accordingly. Even if they are relatively insignificant.

 

[Nifty29]

That made me grin. Seriously.

You have a reputation here that I'm not going to get into in any read depth because I don't care. I take every thread on a post by post basis regardless of reputation. If you see me whining or complaining in every thread I've ever posted it only means you don't read very many posts. That's entirely up to you although I'm not sure how you managed to be so selective.

3Dice caught me receiving a single gift and winning money with it. Then they caught me putting it in the safe and then they caught me taking it back out and losing all of it. That is how far your statement remains correct. You can repeat the rest of your accusations a million times and it won't make them any more correct. In fact the stance you've taken for the casino (every casino) against the player (every player) in pretty much every thread I've ever read decreases your credibility in such a debate to the point of being inconsequential.

But like I said, I take every thread on a post by post basis and answer them accordingly. Even if they are relatively insignificant.

The bolded part above shows exactly who doesn't read posts...and it ain't me.

I also notice you have sunk to the depths of describing my credibility as being "inconsequential". You need to find a better way to argue your point when challenged than hurling personal insults. I am sarcastic at times, and some things and points of view annoy me, but you will NEVER see me slagging off someone's opinion by describing them/it as "useless" or "meaningless". It's the difference between you and me skiny.....you get nasty and personal when you're behind the 8 ball, and I just find a better argument and more facts. I might not present it with flowers and candles, but I always respect an opinion, even though I may disagree with it.

Anyway, no more derails for me.,...back to the topic

 

[cpdnd31]

Once again I am lost. Did he not say he played 100 in real and lost? If this is the case he spent his 50. to maintain his VIP status. I don't see how he manipulated the system by losing 100. If he deposited 50. then gave it to someone else yes but he played a 100 and lost. So I am confused on what the argument is over?

 

[blonde]

Once again I am lost. Did he not say he played 100 in real and lost? If this is the case he spent his 50. to maintain his VIP status. I don't see how he manipulated the system by losing 100. If he deposited 50. then gave it to someone else yes but he played a 100 and lost. So I am confused on what the argument is over?

He stated that he received a gift and won on that. Enzo stated he has not deposited in a bit, been playing on tourney wins apparently. Yes this thread is definitely getting confusing just a tad bit.

 

[bb28]

You've been doing these kind of threads, re: 3D, in one form or another for YEARS. Do you just get bored and consider it entertainment? lol

Seriously......just look at your below post. You take a personal dig at Nifty and you purposely use inflammatory words trying to gather support, "caught". lol IMO, the point you (fail to make) is a complete fallacy based on nothing other than you trying to get something for nothing. It's an illusion you are trying to set up for some reason, perhaps you get bored, perhaps you are pissed about not winning enough, maybe you just like to debate..........but your claims don't seem to have any real merit. You are just trying to inflame and incite.

That made me grin. Seriously.

You have a reputation here that I'm not going to get into in any read depth because I don't care. I take every thread on a post by post basis regardless of reputation. If you see me whining or complaining in every thread I've ever posted it only means you don't read very many posts. That's entirely up to you although I'm not sure how you managed to be so selective.

3Dice caught me receiving a single gift and winning money with it. Then they caught me putting it in the safe and then they caught me taking it back out and losing all of it. That is how far your statement remains correct. You can repeat the rest of your accusations a million times and it won't make them any more correct. In fact the stance you've taken for the casino (every casino) against the player (every player) in pretty much every thread I've ever read decreases your credibility in such a debate to the point of being inconsequential.

But like I said, I take every thread on a post by post basis and answer them accordingly. Even if they are relatively insignificant.

 

[bb28]

He stated that he received a gift and won on that. Enzo stated he has not deposited in a bit, been playing on tourney wins apparently. Yes this thread is definitely getting confusing just a tad bit.

That's (confusion) is the goal, me thinks.

 

[Jasminebed]

Hey Jas,

But you would be VIP as the playthrough on each of the $100 lots would make you a bronze (something) star or higher so you would retain VIP status.

Not necessarily, if my luck was bad and I played games with lower contributions than slots. For instance, Blackjack is only 10% contribution, so if I made $50 bets, and lost four weeks in a row (might be less than 8 hands if I split or doubled), I would only generate play on $40, which would earn me 2 comp points, 98 short of redeeming $1.