Ecogra Casinorewards Corruption

[oren1976]

Well, Here is the deal, This is what I have been waiting for , maybe I went too far with my assumptions, more positive casinorewards resolutions hopefully to come to other players, they seem to be easy to not pay when they feel they are right

 

[MJackson]

One thing you have to remember Oren is that theres no casinos out there that have no problems , they always have one problem or another but its finding the casinos that have the least amount of problems, So with your troubles with casino rewards, well based on the size and amount of players they're doing more right than wrong.

There are lots of casinos that relative to the actions we've frequently seen from Casino Rewards indeed have no problems, or at least few enough as to be negligible.

The idea that financial success and volume somehow correlate with moral rectitude in the online gambling biz is not realistic.

The connection between casinos and Neteller/Moneybookers is more credible, and robust evidence is needed to find out EXACTLY how Neteller are connected (if they are) to the spamming by casinos.
It is already known that Neteller/Moneybookers DO have a "cosy" relationship with the casinos...

@Oren. Since the above quote seems to summarize the main theme of your thread it is worth pointing out that conspiracy is not requisite for cozy relationships and anti-player biases to exist.

Basically it works like this - Neteller and Moneybookers make the majority of their money from merchant, not player, fees. Thier existence is predicated on their relationship with those merchants, and secondarily on their relationship with the players. If they upset a player they may get some bad press in the forums and lose a couple new sign ups. If they upset CR or a similarly sized merchant and that merchant decides to drop them, they are then faced with a potentially existential crisis.

Players may be the gasoline but the merchants are the engine. One's easily replaced, the other only at far greater cost. That's why from time to time you have these "anti-player conspiracies". It's just how the system works.

I've been requested documents as the amounts involved were larger than usual, which I provided promptly, and after that nothing happened. Customer support told me my account 'was picked-up by the system' and a standard investigation is being made. After a 2 week period of 'investigations' I call them and I'm being passed to a guy in the security department who accuses me of:

- trying to 'squeeze out' the bonus (and therefore playing it in an abusive way) - as if their 25% bet limit rule never existed. Strange thing, when you bet big you are an abuser, when you bet low relative to the deposit, you are also an abuser.
- being part of a group.

That's extreme even by CR standards. Why do they do this stuff? It just makes them look like a bunch of ignorant criminals.

 

[footdr]

Learned quickly....

Casino Rewards casinos are the most underhanded group I have ever played.
They are truly corrupt and the only group in 6 years of playing that I dumped years ago to their "rewards program" problems and unethical practices.

 

[whatever]

This just shows that all their accusations were a load of BS. You met the terms, and eCogra told them to pay up.

It seemed they even TRIED to pull the wool over eCogra's eyes by telling them they had asked you for notarised documents, but it seems the first YOU heard about this was from eCogra, not CR.

I believe it was more like a compromise with eCogra. It probably was the last thing they could ask for before finally having to pay the winnings.

How are you supposed to "abuse" one of their standard 25% or less bonuses anyway, and after all THEY offered it in the first place to get you back, so they must have KNOWN how you played.

My experience is these bonuses were mostly given automatically based on a series of factors. Funny thing is I was offered the exact same bonus while my account was 'under investigation'.

They have decided they no longer want you as a customer, yet STILL they keep sending you the pointless spam. It seems that once on the spamming list, NOTHING can get you off it.
Complain to eCogra AGAIN, that they still keep sending you further offers despite the fact they have decided they don't want you.

The spam appears to be from some kind of 'in-house' affiliates. E-mails are sent from addresses like: support@c-rewardsupdates.com , support@casinorewardsnews.com , support@crnewsdaily.com etc.

Check out this spam e-mail I repeatedly received which 'borrows' Betfair's design and motto: "betting as it should be":

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Certainly some "sour grapes" on their part, because even though eCogra upheld your appeal, CR are DETERMINED to water down the eCogra decision by banning you from further play - seems they will comply, but don't trust Tex's judgement that you are NOT a "fraudster", or part of this "group", so they will ONLY comply with the ruling to the LETTER, not the "spirit" which is that you are just an ordinary player who happened to get lucky, but got mistaken for a "scammer".

They have the right to ban any player they want, as long as all previous winnings are paid. I couldn't have cared less if they had continued to let me play or not, I wasn't going to play there anyway.

 

[peteyweestro]

Before the USA got kicked to the curb by Microgaming, my fav casino was Music Hall, then they went broke and got purchased by CR, and sadly that ended my play at my fav casino, because CR sucks,lol

 

[jetset]

Certainly some "sour grapes" on their part, because even though eCogra upheld your appeal, CR are DETERMINED to water down the eCogra decision by banning you from further play - seems they will comply, but don't trust Tex's judgement that you are NOT a "fraudster", or part of this "group", so they will ONLY comply with the ruling to the LETTER, not the "spirit" which is that you are just an ordinary player who happened to get lucky, but got mistaken for a "scammer".

Or....it could simply be management's unprofessionally pissed off reaction to being forced to pay up by eCOGRA - a sort of spiteful "we'll get you anyway by banning you" decision, justified by their right to restrict admission.

And because it is not uncommon among online casinos for the right hand to have no idea what the left is doing, the promotions department just keeps pumping out offers to you despite management's banning decision.

 

[JWhit1986]

@Oren. Since the above quote seems to summarize the main theme of your thread it is worth pointing out that conspiracy is not requisite for cozy relationships and anti-player biases to exist.

Basically it works like this - Neteller and Moneybookers make the majority of their money from merchant, not player, fees. Thier existence is predicated on their relationship with those merchants, and secondarily on their relationship with the players. If they upset a player they may get some bad press in the forums and lose a couple new sign ups. If they upset CR or a similarly sized merchant and that merchant decides to drop them, they are then faced with a potentially existential crisis.

Players may be the gasoline but the merchants are the engine. One's easily replaced, the other only at far greater cost. That's why from time to time you have these "anti-player conspiracies". It's just how the system works.

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

Despite this Neteller WILL do a "chargeback" when a MERCHANT later disputes a payment, yet a PLAYER is told "tough, payments are final and can't be retrieved from the merchant unless there is proof of fraud".

Players have to make a case for fraud, but a merchant just has to ask Neteller to reverse the payment, "no questions asked", and they do it if the money is still there.

 

[MJackson]

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

I can't speak directly about Neteller but I assume it's pretty much the same as Moneybookers. Anyone who's dabbled in the affiliate world knows that the deposit fees taken by Moneybookers are huge (they're deducted from gross revenue). Deposit fees taken from merchants are not only far larger, but deposit volume is far higher than initial account uploading and P2P transfers. Neteller charges considerably more for P2P than Moneybookers but I would guess that those fees are still dwarfed by, as in your example, deposits to sportsbooks.

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Also this topic has come up many times on different forums. There is zero doubt, supported by piles of evidence, that both Neteller and Moneybookers will do the bidding of their merchants when a player is deemed to be "abusive".

 

[Nifty29]

Despite this Neteller WILL do a "chargeback" when a MERCHANT later disputes a payment, yet a PLAYER is told "tough, payments are final and can't be retrieved from the merchant unless there is proof of fraud".

Players have to make a case for fraud, but a merchant just has to ask Neteller to reverse the payment, "no questions asked", and they do it if the money is still there.

I've only heard of this happening once a few years back. Do you know of another case?

AFAIK it's not common practice and it may well no longer be done

Re: CR having 'plants' at ecogra and a whole lot of other places - well it's possible as they sure seem to produce a lot of dopes.

I also have it on good information that someone from CR was the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll ....

 

[JWhit1986]

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Don't get me wrong, I understand Neteller will do the bidding of the casino even if it's illegal. My point is that Neteller is more valuable to the casino than the casino to Neteller. If CR dropped Neteller it would hurt them more. Unfortunately Neteller doesn't respect their fiduciary duty to customers and will violate the law if asked by a casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I can't speak directly about Neteller but I assume it's pretty much the same as Moneybookers. Anyone who's dabbled in the affiliate world knows that the deposit fees taken by Moneybookers are huge (they're deducted from gross revenue). Deposit fees taken from merchants are not only far larger, but deposit volume is far higher than initial account uploading and P2P transfers. Neteller charges considerably more for P2P than Moneybookers but I would guess that those fees are still dwarfed by, as in your example, deposits to sportsbooks.

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Also this topic has come up many times on different forums. There is zero doubt, supported by piles of evidence, that both Neteller and Moneybookers will do the bidding of their merchants when a player is deemed to be "abusive".

This doesn't seem to fit all the evidence. If these HUGE fees are taken from gross revenue, rather than volume, how come there are many cases where casinos REFUSE to pay back to Neteller, even where the deposit has come from there. Surely paying back to Neteller CUTS the amount of gross revenue used by Neteller to calculate the fees. If these fees are so much LARGER than those charged by VISA, it would even make sense for casinos to repay the proceeds of card deposits back to Neteller when a player requests this, in order to both please the player AND cut the fees charged.

Some casinos offer EXTRA for Neteller deposits, yet NOT for VISA deposits, which seems to suggest the opposite, that VISA is more expensive for the casino than Neteller.

Given these huge fees, why do casinos continue to be "bled dry", rather than "rattling their sabres" and threatening to ditch Neteller unless they reduce their fees to a more reasonable level. If Neteller is so dependent on casinos, surely they WILL take notice if they find they risk losing the business, whereas VISA don't care about the loss of the gambling market so much.

Neteller may do the casino's bidding BECAUSE this is where they make the money, and by returning money to a casino from an "abusive" player they INCREASE the "gross revenue" figure, and thus get MORE in fees from that merchant.

If the casinos are struggling with the current eWallets, why don't we see more in the way of competition. Ivobank tried to shake up the market, but couldn't get enough merchants to accept them as an alternative to Neteller and Moneybookers, and so quickly died.

 

[AFlansburg]

Almost all players get paid at Casino Rewards!

did nt understand yr posting . its a large group they give nice bonuses and i never heard of an unpaid player there , at least amongst that did terms a cond ,

Most all players get paid at casino rewards, sometimes it just takes a few months. I notice that casino meister doesnt take a stand on casino rewards. their not an accredited casino nor are they rouged, so what is their position.
I had a 150.00 cashout from Grand Mondial that was to be paid the day casino rewards took over, and it still is not paid. The cashout was supposed to be paid on the 13th Feb. I have been in constant contact with the CR affiliate and CR's Payment Processor since 17th Feb and everyday the payment is coming today, but never comes. If you have an unlimited bankroll, then no problem. But if all you have to play on is your last cashout, then your SOL.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Most all players get paid at casino rewards, sometimes it just takes a few months. I notice that casino meister doesnt take a stand on casino rewards. their not an accredited casino nor are they rouged, so what is their position.
I had a 150.00 cashout from Grand Mondial that was to be paid the day casino rewards took over, and it still is not paid. The cashout was supposed to be paid on the 13th Feb. I have been in constant contact with the CR affiliate and CR's Payment Processor since 17th Feb and everyday the payment is coming today, but never comes. If you have an unlimited bankroll, then no problem. But if all you have to play on is your last cashout, then your SOL.

This is more of a Playshare issue, and PLAYSHARE should have dealt with your payment since it was requested BEFORE CR took over.

It's possible that your payment has been "lost in the system", and CR don't actually have it, nor any reliable record to prove it has not been paid, or even exists.

They may be saying "any day soon" under the mistaken assumtion that it is still "in the works", and does not have to be reissued.

This does not look like there was an organised change of ownership, but rather that Playshare "did a runner", leaving a load of unfinished business that was THEIR responsibilty for CR to clear up when they flew their team out to Playshare's offices.

Playshare have simply never commented on this takeover, and seem to have simply vanished, and the fact that even BEFORE there was any announcement the Playshare CS team were unreachable by all means makes the "did a runner" explanation more plausable. Normally during a take over like this, the existing team will stick around to help make sure the process goes smoothly, and rather than a couple of days with NO-ONE at the helm, there would be a couple of days sailing with TWO captains on duty.

After 14 days, players who have STILL not received payments disrupted by this move can make formal complaints to eCogra. This comes under eCogra rules that operators have 14 days to settle issues internally before a formal complaint can be dealt with.

 

[oren1976]

Only one player confirmed positive resolution by Ecogra and I couldn't understand was it in the past year, as my conclusition of their suspected connection to big operations like Ecgra starts around a year ago, before that they still didn't have that kind of power. Was it a year ago that Ecogra helped you or before, and please if more players got positive resolution please publish it here, also negative resolution are welcome to see where we stand

I strongly believe Casinorewards have some sort of very good relation with Ecogra and silent agreement to agree with his feelings when it comes to a no pay

 

[whatever]

Incident happened in May (first half), I complained to eCogra in June (around 15th) and I received what I was due at the end of July.