Drive freespins Glitch

[fun4all]

Guessing we'll be s.o.l.
Micro/NetEnt notorious about not answering Qs here.
But maybe if the op asked the casino in question

Yeah we are never graced by the manufacturers presence nor would I expect them to have to answer questions from players on a daily basis. I was like you said hoping perhaps an operator could ask them and come back to us with some sort of explanation.

Frame by frame. The last three reels are suddenly completely different. That must have been quite some (invisible) lag.

Great screenshots I think this shows it is just ugly, bad programming and not an actual fault in the game. Thank Milton!

 

[Qinxgee]

Guessing we'll be s.o.l.
Micro/NetEnt notorious about not answering Qs here.
But maybe if the op asked the casino in question

Let me try and prove you wrong...

Disclosure: I'm a dev at Netent. Drive is the first game that I worked on besides maintenance on older games. Before this I was a games tester and I've done some work for the platform side. The team that worked on Drive is fairly new, and this is in fact the first game that we all worked on from scratch. I'm sorry to hear that some of you think we did a crappy job at coding, but you know: we're trying to do a good job. I hope you can forgive me for not going into too much detail on how we actually code our stuff, I'm sure we have competitors on here as well

As for Chipkin9's problem: unfortunately for you, as a screen shot that was posted here earlier shows, the Nitro did not in fact land under the multiplier. We spent a good hour over here in the office stepping through your video pretty much frame by frame. Because I must admit that the video looks to show the Nitro landing under the multiplier. I made my own screen shot as well.



You can see Hamaki landing on the third row on the third reel, and just below him you can see the top of the nitro symbol landing outside of the frame.

As shown at the 2:20 mark, *if* a Nitro and a multiplier overlay end up on the same position, both are awarded (if anyone was still unsure about that).

As for "sloppy" or "lazy" programming: it's certainly not the latter. We've worked hard on this game, and are actually pretty damn proud of it. We worked hard to make it as great as we could. So... maybe it's sloppy programming? I don't think so. I do not recognise any of the claims made in this thread as "stuff we do". But regardless of what anyone thinks we're trying to do, the video does seem to be showing a glitch and even if it isn't actually there, we should work harder on making sure it doesn't *look* like there's anything, either.

Your post made it from here to my desk in under 11 hours. We are listening

I doubt the Nitro's are actually on the reels. Probably just 'randomly' overlaid (adding up to some RTP of course).

Nope. The Nitro's are actually on the reels.

View attachment 64744View attachment 64743View attachment 64742

Frame by frame. The last three reels are suddenly completely different. That must have been quite some (invisible) lag.

I wouldn't say *completely* different... the symbols that are on the top of reels 3, 4 and 5 all made it to the bottom of the reel between the two screenshots. Maybe we do suffer a bit from a low fps in this particular instance.

 

[dunover]

Let me try and prove you wrong...

Disclosure: I'm a dev at Netent. Drive is the first game that I worked on besides maintenance on older games. Before this I was a games tester and I've done some work for the platform side. The team that worked on Drive is fairly new, and this is in fact the first game that we all worked on from scratch. I'm sorry to hear that some of you think we did a crappy job at coding, but you know: we're trying to do a good job. I hope you can forgive me for not going into too much detail on how we actually code our stuff, I'm sure we have competitors on here as well

As for Chipkin9's problem: unfortunately for you, as a screen shot that was posted here earlier shows, the Nitro did not in fact land under the multiplier. We spent a good hour over here in the office stepping through your video pretty much frame by frame. Because I must admit that the video looks to show the Nitro landing under the multiplier. I made my own screen shot as well.

View attachment 64748

You can see Hamaki landing on the third row on the third reel, and just below him you can see the top of the nitro symbol landing outside of the frame.

As shown at the 2:20 mark, *if* a Nitro and a multiplier overlay end up on the same position, both are awarded (if anyone was still unsure about that).

As for "sloppy" or "lazy" programming: it's certainly not the latter. We've worked hard on this game, and are actually pretty damn proud of it. We worked hard to make it as great as we could. So... maybe it's sloppy programming? I don't think so. I do not recognise any of the claims made in this thread as "stuff we do". But regardless of what anyone thinks we're trying to do, the video does seem to be showing a glitch and even if it isn't actually there, we should work harder on making sure it doesn't *look* like there's anything, either.

Your post made it from here to my desk in under 11 hours. We are listening


Nope. The Nitro's are actually on the reels.



I wouldn't say *completely* different... the symbols that are on the top of reels 3, 4 and 5 all made it to the bottom of the reel between the two screenshots. Maybe we do suffer a bit from a low fps in this particular instance.

It's just 'gimped' graphics. Similar to MG's Hitman showing wilds spinning by on reels 1+5 when they aren't even on them. Similar to DoA when wilds continually appear to land behind existing sticky wilds. Just mediocre animation, nothing sinister and doesn't affect the game outcomes. The animations are simply visual representations of outcomes already produced by the RNG.

There are no end of these. If you've played TFTUT or DoA or Wild Rockets you can tell when the 3 scatters are due in, same as WMS.

 

[Qinxgee]

It's just 'gimped' graphics. Similar to MG's Hitman showing wilds spinning by on reels 1+5 when they aren't even on them.

What do you mean by 'gimped' graphics? In Drive, you will not see Nitro's come by on reels 1 and 5 because they do not have Nitro's on them. I'm not allowed to show you the reel layouts, but the Nitro's are really on the reels (the multiplier overlays are not, obviously)

 

[syntynyt]

The team that worked on Drive is fairly new, and this is in fact the first game that we all worked on from scratch.
We are listening

that would explain why is the better netent game in recent YEARS. if you listen then start producing capable in payout games that are requested but never delivered. try to listen with players in mind, not only with casino bank account. the big win flashes at 20x and 400x max payout are not good slots no matter idea/engine/graphics. maybe are good for a selected market that plays for entertainment. i play online to win big, like i play in landbased novomatics for the same purpose. and giving the astonoshing success of high variance games i'm definetly not the only one. i lost in your games wins generated by other provider slots for so many times that is unbelievable. Drive is a breath of fresh air for this company, but should be treated with extreme caution, can go forever without feature and dead base game, Drive can be a netent slot at times!

 

[Qinxgee]

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to comment on Netent's business decisions (in fact I'm not even sure how thrilled my employer is with me stepping in this conversation - what I type are *my* opinions, not necessarily those of my employer, and all that)

I just wanted to let you know that we do hear your remarks (both positive and negative) and take criticism to heart.

 

[syntynyt]

I just wanted to let you know that we do hear your remarks (both positive and negative) and take criticism to heart.

dangerous to that with my criticism, will left the heart weak and ill ready to attack itself
i hope you are staying if you are allowed by your bosses and further respond to whatever speculation/confusing matter arrives for mutual satisfaction. and from being part of the Drive product team, congrats for this non boring slot capable of medium sized wins with an action packed bonus. i'm reluctant to play anything that bears Netent logo giving my over the top awful experiences but if this new team will create more like this i will recognize and play, no matter results and no moans if the slots are good.

 

[Sovietsky]

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to comment on Netent's business decisions (in fact I'm not even sure how thrilled my employer is with me stepping in this conversation - what I type are *my* opinions, not necessarily those of my employer, and all that)

I just wanted to let you know that we do hear your remarks (both positive and negative) and take criticism to heart.

Pretty cool to have someone from netent here and I hope you will stick around! I got some question as well if you are allowed to answer that is.

Is it possible that the older slots like dead or alive get quick spins as well?

 

[Chipkin9]

Let me try and prove you wrong...

Disclosure: I'm a dev at Netent. Drive is the first game that I worked on besides maintenance on older games. Before this I was a games tester and I've done some work for the platform side. The team that worked on Drive is fairly new, and this is in fact the first game that we all worked on from scratch. I'm sorry to hear that some of you think we did a crappy job at coding, but you know: we're trying to do a good job. I hope you can forgive me for not going into too much detail on how we actually code our stuff, I'm sure we have competitors on here as well

As for Chipkin9's problem: unfortunately for you, as a screen shot that was posted here earlier shows, the Nitro did not in fact land under the multiplier. We spent a good hour over here in the office stepping through your video pretty much frame by frame. Because I must admit that the video looks to show the Nitro landing under the multiplier. I made my own screen shot as well.

View attachment 64748

You can see Hamaki landing on the third row on the third reel, and just below him you can see the top of the nitro symbol landing outside of the frame.

As shown at the 2:20 mark, *if* a Nitro and a multiplier overlay end up on the same position, both are awarded (if anyone was still unsure about that).

As for "sloppy" or "lazy" programming: it's certainly not the latter. We've worked hard on this game, and are actually pretty damn proud of it. We worked hard to make it as great as we could. So... maybe it's sloppy programming? I don't think so. I do not recognise any of the claims made in this thread as "stuff we do". But regardless of what anyone thinks we're trying to do, the video does seem to be showing a glitch and even if it isn't actually there, we should work harder on making sure it doesn't *look* like there's anything, either.

Your post made it from here to my desk in under 11 hours. We are listening


Nope. The Nitro's are actually on the reels.



I wouldn't say *completely* different... the symbols that are on the top of reels 3, 4 and 5 all made it to the bottom of the reel between the two screenshots. Maybe we do suffer a bit from a low fps in this particular instance.

Thanks for chiming in on the thread.

Kudos to you and also Milton W for that screenshot showing that the Nitro symbol is indeed below Hamaki.

It doesn't help that you can't actually observe the Nitro going anywhere further than the multiplier symbol and it seems to just "stick" or "disappear" behind it without going out of frame.

I don't want to come across as a doubting Thomas, but there is no way to verify that you are indeed a developer for NetEnt, you could just be someone looking to sound relevant and important; it would not be the first time such claims have been made.

If you are however, then I am glad my thread and video garnered your attention, and I hope you stick around the forum to discuss things with the CM community.

It would be somewhat reassuring to know that there is someone around the forum that does indeed listen to the people that matter, and takes on board criticisms or praises that are being talked about

 

[fun4all]

Thanks for responding to this thread, we all appreciate it.

1) Can we have autoplay for when casinos give us free spins please.

2) I understand the need for games with max 200x payout but please can we get a variety. Good high variance games with REAL (not fake) potential are what a lot of seasoned players like.

3) Please, "Big Win" at 15x is an insult, "MEGA WIN" at 30x is beyond a joke.

4) This Drive game is a good slot, keep up the good work and thanks for the responses. They have put any doubts to rest about this display glitch.

 

[Chipkin9]

It might simply be that it 'appears' to fall behind the symbol. As most slots players know, the images whizzing by are just eye candy and not actually representative as what 'whooshes' by. This is best illustrated by people with realllllllly slow computers and internet connections, where they see one symbol slowly crawling and about to land and 'miraculously' changed to another symbol.

And I owe you an apology Dionysus, your explanation was sound.

It was difficult to comprehend that the symbol actually didn't land on the reels until Milton posted those screens.

So, sorry

 

[Chipkin9]

Thanks for responding to this thread, we all appreciate it.

1) Can we have autoplay for when casinos give us free spins please.

2) I understand the need for games with max 200x payout but please can we get a variety. Good high variance games with REAL (not fake) potential are what a lot of seasoned players like.

3) Please, "Big Win" at 15x is an insult, "MEGA WIN" at 30x is beyond a joke.

4) This Drive game is a good slot, keep up the good work and thanks for the responses. They have put any doubts to rest about this display glitch.

5) A stats button that shows spins played and highest wins (Like Immortal Romance, Playboy etc etc...)

 

[dunover]

What do you mean by 'gimped' graphics? In Drive, you will not see Nitro's come by on reels 1 and 5 because they do not have Nitro's on them. I'm not allowed to show you the reel layouts, but the Nitro's are really on the reels (the multiplier overlays are not, obviously)

'Gimped' just means lazy or unrealistic. I believe many games generate graphics/animation in the fastest way possible with lowest possible CPU drain in order to run smoothly and quick. Few games actually seem to have 5 random stops for each of the 5 reels, but rather a possible final outcome for the spin is selected by the RNG and the graphics chucked in afterwards in the most streamlined format in order to express the outcome in video. This leads to jumpy graphics and often 'tells' for the outcome before the video of the spin has even finished.

 

[dionysus]

And I owe you an apology Dionysus, your explanation was sound.

It was difficult to comprehend that the symbol actually didn't land on the reels until Milton posted those screens.

So, sorry

Accepted, but you don't owe me aything.
It's important we question and post concerns when they arise and my opinions are merely those..opinions, be they right or wrong.

 

[KasinoKing]

Having said all that, I get the impression that recently NetEnt have been using different developers for some of their games, so it could be a slightly different "engine".

The team that worked on Drive is fairly new, and this is in fact the first game that we all worked on from scratch.

Surprise, surprise - I was RIGHT!

As for "sloppy" or "lazy" programming: it's certainly not the latter. We've worked hard on this game, and are actually pretty damn proud of it. We worked hard to make it as great as we could. So... maybe it's sloppy programming? I don't think so. I do not recognise any of the claims made in this thread as "stuff we do".

Sorry, but it IS sloppy - you can't deny that when we have video evidence!

Let me try and prove you wrong...

Sorry - you failed!

Having said all that, I do think it is a VERY good game and as I understand how these things work, I can accept this "glitch" or "Sloppy programming" as just one of those things. Would be better if the graphics performed perfectly - but then, so would I!

VERY good to have someone like you on the forum and I hope you stick around and continue to contribute - much appreciated!

KK

 

[Qinxgee]

I don't want to come across as a doubting Thomas, but there is no way to verify that you are indeed a developer for NetEnt, you could just be someone looking to sound relevant and important; it would not be the first time such claims have been made.

Yup. And I have no way to prove that I work here either (except maybe if an admin can see my IP and traces it back to Net Entertainment...).

If you are however, then I am glad my thread and video garnered your attention, and I hope you stick around the forum to discuss things with the CM community.

I don't actually know if anyone from our first line support browses these forums looking for potentially interesting threads. Yours came through because your operator wanted us to check if this was a bug in our game.

Sorry - you failed!

Oh, the "proving you wrong" was only towards the "No-one from Netent will ever reply here" comment (although as Chipkin9 pointed out, technically I didn't prove anything....).

Having said all that, I do think it is a VERY good game and as I understand how these things work, I can accept this "glitch" or "Sloppy programming" as just one of those things. Would be better if the graphics performed perfectly - but then, so would I!

Thanks!

 

[JackMack]

In my opinion, this definitely IS a glitch. (Or VERY sloppy programming).

It is true that to a certain extent the spinning reels are just "eye candy", and in most cases the final reel position is "cut in" just before they stop spinning.
This can frequently be observed if you play a lot, as symbols which do not lie next too each other on the reel strips can appear to be adjacent just before the reels stop spinning. e.g. you might see TWO wilds or TWO scatters next to each other.

With MG, the cut-in sometimes includes 2 or 3 extra symbols which "run off" the bottom of the screen, but with NetEnt they don't do this, and it's only the final 3 symbols which are cut-in.
But in the video above, the Nitro definitely appears to be in these "final 3 symbols" as you can actually see it stop. = Glitch.

Having said all that, I get the impression that recently NetEnt have been using different developers for some of their games, so it could be a slightly different "engine".
The way to tell for sure (which I haven't done yet) is look carefully at reel 3 (when stopped) and see if there is a Nitro symbol on the reel strip between the 2 characters (Twitch & Hamaki) which end up above & below it in the video.


{Edit} OK - been and watched about 8 videos of free-spins now, and observed the Nitro landing on reel 3 about 15 - 18 times:
It appeared in 3 different places on the reel-strip, with a J, Q, and A above it, and a Car below in all three cases.
The only time I saw Twitch & Hamaki, there was a 10 between them (see screenshot).

Conclusion: VERY sloppy programming.

KK

Good observations and indeed it is true that the spinning reel animations are usually not true visual representations of possible outcome.

While this doesn't mean the games are not functioning as intended regarding TRTP it is a little surprising to see it practiced still today since there is actually no technical reason the spinning reels should not be a true representation of probability of outcome. Indeed it could be argues that not having them be properly representative in this way contravenes specific UKGC licensing rules that deal with video games needing to properly represent probability of outcome. for example you cannot have a coin toss game where there is not equal probability of outcome without it being properly explained and/or visually represented somehow.
Then again "near miss" are also not allowed under UKGC yet undoubtedly there are near miss scenarios in most video slots - this is usually done by giving scatters on reel 1 and 2 but not triggering the free spins and is not that reels 1 and 2 are much easier to hit with reels 3,4 and 5 harder.

Some slots are much worse offenders than others. It could also be argued that 3 reel slots with a bonus symbol on reel 3 to trigger the feature break both these rules as a) the probability of the bonus being triggered is misrepresented because the bonus symbol is weighted to hit 1 in 150 on say a 25 symbol reel rather than truly represented on a say a 150 symbol reel and B) this results in near miss occurring because the bonus symbol will more often appear one below and one above than on the trigger line.

Again this does not mean that the slots are not fair but it is a concern that weighted slots and games that are visually not representative of probability are licensed by UKGC but more importantly that this sort of lazy programming is still used commonly within the industry when technically there is absolutely no reason for it. That raises suspicions because games that do not need to be visually consistent or representative of probability can be easily manipulated without there being any visual clues to this manipulation. Add to the fact that software is not proactively monitored after its initial release, that servers are not checked and there is no check to ensure that multiple servers are not used (switched in and out that host the games) and that often audits are done in house or by eCogra (in house still) and certainly are not reliable IMO then there is plenty of scope for casinos/software companies to switch TRTP or otherwise manipulate games without fear of ever being exposed.

Remote gaming is still a very much play on trust occupation which would be fine if people were not led to believe that casinos and software are properly regulated.

As an example of how corrupt and complicit the UK government are in all of this I have now had several months of being stonewalled by UKGC, the Department of Media and Culture and the Secretary of State over these issues where they have repeatedly broken their own guidelines and in the case of the Secretary of State failed to answer to my MP despite having a responsibility to reply within 80 days.
This is not accidental, it is because the questions I am asking and the issues I am raising are extremely uncomfortable for all the parties concerned because it exposes just how open to cheating current systems are and how the UKGC is just another sham licensing authority (beyond ensuring operations are well funded - wouldn't want some fool to rock the boat and kill the golden Goose) but worse, remote casino licensed by the UKGC are allowed to promote and given a badge of integrity by the UK government which profits from their exploits.

It is impossible to say how honest individual operations are but let's just say less than honest operations will have no trouble maintaining a UKGC license as things stand.
It is laughable that a software company can present a video slot to a third party testing house and have it authenticated but then are free to do as they please with the live version without spot checks to ensure that game is functioning the same as the one submitted for testing.

In all my experience I would swear that there are different TRTP versions of slots (probably existing on different servers) despite the claims of casinos and software houses. I can play the same game at two different casinos and quickly know the difference. That may seem like a stretch to anyone who hasn't played millions of spins but to those who have it can be quite conspicuous above the noise of natural variance, usually because high value symbols are just a good deal more likely to hit. (for example a wild on first reel is 1/15 probability - play a few hundred spins at casino A where you never win and it hits a ratio of 1/40, play casino B where you have better experiences and it hits near as expected 1/15. That is a very simplistic example but when you see such patterns repeat over and over then it is very hard to put it down to casino A is unlucky and casino B) lucky - I would suggest it is much more logical to assume casino A is ripping you off with low TRTP slots but even if not why would you want to play at a casino where you are so "unlucky"
Some casinos it is deposit after deposit with low RTP. Just out of curiosity and to test my theory I will continue over many hundreds pounds with some casinos but the result never changes. I end up with around 85% RTP or worse over all my deposits and many thousands of games. These results are a long way outside the norm, even if I were to suddenly hit x1000 bet wins would only drag my RTP up toward 90% on supposed 96% TRTP games and how would that happen when you never hit x100 bet alone x1000 be wins? So no doubt in my mind that such data goes far beyond variance and good luck/bad luck but that is subjective to my results.

All said I still play online slots because I get entertainment out of it. I would never play high stakes because I simply do not have that level of trust.
My issue is the bar is set extremely low as far as the integrity of remote casinos, software companies and licensing jurisdictions go - and I might add governments to that list but that's a given.

 

[interlog]

JackMack, you seem to be on some kind of mission to discredit slots and casinos yet continue to play them. I don't understand

As to the Government, I can imagine the conversation during Prime Ministers Questions time:

Speaker: Questions for the Prime Minister. The honourable member of <insert constituency of JackMack>

MP: I received a complaint from JackMack who has played 100 of thousands of spins on Dead or Alive but never got a wild line during the bonus rounds. What is the Prime Minister going to do about that?

Cameron: Nothing. I was a bit bored yesterday and dumped £25 into Videoslots and played Dead or Alive for a bit. Would you believe it, I had a double wild win line during the free spins and cashed out £300. Might treat myself to a nice little break to Blackpool (apologies to those living in Blackpool)

 

[lotusch]

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to comment on Netent's business decisions (in fact I'm not even sure how thrilled my employer is with me stepping in this conversation - what I type are *my* opinions, not necessarily those of my employer, and all that)

I just wanted to let you know that we do hear your remarks (both positive and negative) and take criticism to heart.

Fair play to you sir.
And I really do appreciate it that actually someone from within the gaming industry finally has the guts to step up and respond to a thread like this.

I always wonder how many people from like the big brands of slots are lurking around here.
MGS,Netent,WMS,Novomatic,Barcrest,Bally devs and employees.

Is all information,good and/or bad being taken aboard for future releases etc etc.

Anyway, +1 to you m8.

Used to hate Netent!! but completely changed around in the last +/- 12 months.

Really enjoy the games now,well most of them.

CFTBL is still on my top 5 list,most vile slots ever released!