Proof casinos games are rigged!

[Don't be rigged now]

Hey guys just wanted you all to watch this video where an ex employer proves the games are rigged.



I knew all along but everyone is too stuck in a trance to get of their high horse and continue to defend these crooks.

Our past data is a gold mine for every casino out there.

Ex gamstop member? Oh lovely we know how to manipulate the games for you! Keep you on the edge and keep depositing until you are dry.

Please please stop giving your money to these crooks who hide Behind the random Rtp generator it’s wayyyy to convenient. The industry needs uncovering. I bet the guy in the video has magically disappeared of the earth now.

 

[The Reel Story]

a) No proof is offered there
b) Nothing he says is anything new or unknown
c) He says nothing about games being rigged
d) He seems to be primarily talking about sports betting (based on his language), but it applies to most.

This is, if anything, more proof that games are NOT rigged, because he doesn't mention it. He does say that they prey on customer behaviours. People who lose are encouraged to keep losing (send them bonuses and things to bring the back in).

People who win are encouraged to stop (bonuses removed, maybe limits placed, maybe account blocked all together). I've seen this myself. I've seen a company disable roulette because a couple of players were winning too much (and they sent private investigators to these players, who lived near each other).

It's all shady, and it's all dark and predatory, BUT, none of it is cheating. Games aren't rigged, but the companies certainly do have these predatory cultures and behaviours to maximise their profits.

 

[goatwack]

Not really seeing the revelations here, or major secrecy from companies. Just one guy with a mask claiming to have worked for a major company. So because of his anonymity, we're supposed to believe what he says?

We can all assume to know how casinos prioritize customers based on their wealth, and that they ultimately don't care about us. Or how we're useful idiots to them based on profitability etc

No proof evident from a guy sat in a chair speaking about things we all know already, sorry to say.....

 

[Don't be rigged now]

a) No proof is offered there
b) Nothing he says is anything new or unknown
c) He says nothing about games being rigged
d) He seems to be primarily talking about sports betting (based on his language), but it applies to most.

This is, if anything, more proof that games are NOT rigged, because he doesn't mention it. He does say that they prey on customer behaviours. People who lose are encouraged to keep losing (send them bonuses and things to bring the back in).

People who win are encouraged to stop (bonuses removed, maybe limits placed, maybe account blocked all together). I've seen this myself. I've seen a company disable roulette because a couple of players were winning too much (and they sent private investigators to these players, who lived near each other).

It's all shady, and it's all dark and predatory, BUT, none of it is cheating. Games aren't rigged, but the companies certainly do have these predatory cultures and behaviours to maximise their profits.

He literally says 0.55 to 1.05 there’s technology (maths) analysing your betting to ensure it always wins

 

[The Reel Story]

He literally says 0.55 to 1.05 there’s technology (maths) analysing your betting to ensure it always wins

No, he says there is technology analysing your betting to ensure the COMPANY always wins. That is then followed up with details about encouraging losers to lose and winners to stop. That is what it means and that is true. Of course companies are tracking their players play and trying to maximise their profits by exploiting their behaviours. Why do you think VIP managers and VIP schemes and bonuses exist?

They maximize losers and minimize winners through behavioural manipulation. Not through cheating.

 

[paul7388]

Oh good another proof thread with no proof at all lol.

Always amazed how people that have lost need to try and find anyway out to try and prove they were ripped off. Maybe makes them feel better believing they have been robbed rather than just blowing all their money themselves.

 

[L&L-Jan]

"VICE' - Ones you go bloke you go broke

 

[Guntis]

That video is more about betting, not casino games

 

[justdoit]

some casinos they do close your account if you UP a lot like WHG or Partycasino
if you play on lower stake best play on L&L they dont ask much, only if you go mad and spend £1000s every week sure they going to hit you with SOW

 

[TheAddict]

Can't believe they kept cutting it everytime you were about to load up Bonanza, Snorks. You lookin a bit pale their too m8 tbh, or is it the lighting. Damn journos.

 

[Lemon]

Finally the lid has been lifted. Pack up and go home lads - the game's over.

 

[jasonuk]

No, he says there is technology analysing your betting to ensure the COMPANY always wins. That is then followed up with details about encouraging losers to lose and winners to stop. That is what it means and that is true. Of course companies are tracking their players play and trying to maximise their profits by exploiting their behaviours. Why do you think VIP managers and VIP schemes and bonuses exist?

They maximize losers and minimize winners through behavioural manipulation. Not through cheating.

It's why people complain that sportsbooks won't stand a bet anymore - and they're right to a large extent.

Despite books being far larger than exchanges, it's exchanges that tend to lead because they'll offer the best price and there's enough liquidity to hurt books in terms of arbitrage (and books will rapidly limit players who do, see "matched betting" a few years ago where arguably millions of accounts were stake limited based on direct arbitrage or bonus-based arbitrage).

Prices will move very quickly if a book is exposed to an arbitrage, although that is fairly rare now as books have increased their margins substantially - earning statements citing 10% hold isn't uncommon.

We've all heard the stores from sites like Bet365 that will turn on a sixpence depending on if you are winning or losing - people who have lost five figures and have substantial limits available, had one lucky bet that puts them in the green and immediately get bonus banned and stake limited.

It's the same with predatory bonuses - hey, deposit and get this £100 bonus today! (200xB wagering applies, £10 max redemption) - if people understood what the terms were everyone would rightly run a mile... but they ignore the legalise and get manipulated and often get trapped in bonus funds.

 

[Casinomeister]

View attachment 187794

why is the casing still on that bullet?

 

[irish-ranger]

why is the casing still on that bullet?

Excetly 7.62 still in its casing ffs and people will actually buy this bullshite..

 

[Don't be rigged now]

It's why people complain that sportsbooks won't stand a bet anymore - and they're right to a large extent.

Despite books being far larger than exchanges, it's exchanges that tend to lead because they'll offer the best price and there's enough liquidity to hurt books in terms of arbitrage (and books will rapidly limit players who do, see "matched betting" a few years ago where arguably millions of accounts were stake limited based on direct arbitrage or bonus-based arbitrage).

Prices will move very quickly if a book is exposed to an arbitrage, although that is fairly rare now as books have increased their margins substantially - earning statements citing 10% hold isn't uncommon.

We've all heard the stores from sites like Bet365 that will turn on a sixpence depending on if you are winning or losing - people who have lost five figures and have substantial limits available, had one lucky bet that puts them in the green and immediately get bonus banned and stake limited.

It's the same with predatory bonuses - hey, deposit and get this £100 bonus today! (200xB wagering applies, £10 max redemption) - if people understood what the terms were everyone would rightly run a mile... but they ignore the legalise and get manipulated and often get trapped in bonus funds.

Didn’t bet 366 get found out for false Rtp the other day it was it someone else

 

[vegasfem]

He's speaking generally about sportsbetting and live casinos. We've all won at some online slot casino. It is getting harder to do so, but one can still generally win at online casinos one has won at in the past, and one knows to avoid those who seem to never let you win. One doesn't need to spend a lot to tell the difference either. Online casinos can rig games against you, but it is apparent when they do. Just test by betting the minimum constantly on games what have previously been responsive. If they dry up instantly, one knows one isn't going to win in the current session and maybe not for 5 or 6 more sessions, but will then win at least a little if the casino is trustworthy.

 

[Don't be rigged now]

He's speaking generally about sportsbetting and live casinos. We've all won at some online slot casino. It is getting harder to do so, but one can still generally win at online casinos one has won at in the past, and one knows to avoid those who seem to never let you win. One doesn't need to spend a lot to tell the difference either. Online casinos can rig games against you, but it is apparent when they do. Just test by betting the minimum constantly on games what have previously been responsive. If they dry up instantly, one knows one isn't going to win in the current session and maybe not for 5 or 6 more sessions, but will then win at least a little if the casino is trustworthy.

That shouldn’t be the case as all games are truly random… right?

 

[vegasfem]

Sarcasm, right?

 

[vegasfem]

Proof of rigging is in the pudding. Heretofore, slots have been programmed by humans. Going forward, AI will do it instead, but that'll always take longer for online casinos.
Anyway, humans DON'T do random. And anyone who plays slots can easily determine that although they are said to be random, that only pertains to the awarding of the big jackpot prizes on slots; not to everyday spins.
Everyday spins run in cycles. The CYCLES may be random but one can still pretty much figure out their patterns. It is NOT random for one to win every other spin, or every two spins or every 3 spins, etc. It is NOT random when you are able to bet down to one line, one coin (1), and, that if you do so you can suddenly go 50 - 60 spins in a row without one single pay result, right? THAT'S NOT RANDOM, but that is often the situation one encounters when one is not in a winning session at an online casino. It doen't matter then what game you play or how much you bet. It that casino is determined not to allow you to win during that session, then you either won't or else your pays will be few and small.
And, on the contrary, when you sign in and luck into a winning session on a casino, little can hold you back except greed.
So, "rigged"; yeah, and "random"; nope, not at all. Just luck and experience at finding casinos which are more honest than the rest and sticking with them for play.

 

[jasonuk]

Proof of rigging is in the pudding. Heretofore, slots have been programmed by humans. Going forward, AI will do it instead, but that'll always take longer for online casinos.
Anyway, humans DON'T do random. And anyone who plays slots can easily determine that although they are said to be random, that only pertains to the awarding of the big jackpot prizes on slots; not to everyday spins.

Sounds like you are experiencing Apophenia (the tendency to perceive meaningful connections in random or unrelated results)…

You're right that humans don't do random, that's why certified hardware devices for RNG are usually physical hardware utilising natural phenomena. The integrity of these aren't just important for gambling, but for any security-based implementation... if you can break it, things get very bad very quickly (as happened with the

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many years ago).

Casino games largely break down into four categories:

• True random - the game behaves according to true odds - e.g. most table games, and older slot games, where each reel stop has an equal chance of landing and each reel is an independent RNG call - and this can be verified by a technically competent person (e.g. the deep dive into Avalon 2 many years ago). While people think of a spin as "one" RNG call, it's possible that triggers multiple or dozens of separate RNG requests.
• Weighted random - the game behaves according to a documented or undocumented weighting, so while the RNG is real, the result presented is skewed by the weighting.
• Scratchcard slots - particularly common now-a-days with streamer slots, the entire game round is one or few RNG calls, akin to picking a ball from a bag. Depending on the scripted implementation, the game can infer chances that have zero probability of occurring.
• Compensated - this is restricted to certain markets (for example, AWPs in the UK) where the machine is not random and some decisions will not use an RNG at all (e.g. you gamble and you will lose regardless of your choice).

Everyday spins run in cycles. The CYCLES may be random but one can still pretty much figure out their patterns. It is NOT random for one to win every other spin, or every two spins or every 3 spins, etc. It is NOT random when you are able to bet down to one line, one coin (1), and, that if you do so you can suddenly go 50 - 60 spins in a row without one single pay result, right? THAT'S NOT RANDOM

You are confusing strike rate with randomness... for a single line the odds of winning may well be 1 in 50, but when you are playing 10, 20, 25 lines those odds are combined and generate a curve of probabilities. Much like a single line will never pay a micro-win, but playing 25 lines often will.

It that casino is determined not to allow you to win during that session, then you either won't or else your pays will be few and small.
And, on the contrary, when you sign in and luck into a winning session on a casino, little can hold you back except greed.
So, "rigged"; yeah, and "random"; nope, not at all. Just luck and experience at finding casinos which are more honest than the rest and sticking with them for play.

In a regulated market, that would require operators, providers and regulators to all be in cahoots rigging the casino games... while technically possible, their collective incompetence suggests they would be unable to keep it secret if such an event was going on.

Meanwhile, in an unregulated or rogue market, it's much more likely to find a rogue operator working in cahoots with a rogue provider (or they are one and the same) and at that point all bets are off. We've heard plenty of horror stories of fake/pirated slots pretending to be NetEnt that are designed to pay almost nothing, fake/pirated blackjack providers that think Blackjack ties with Dealer 20, or progressive jackpots that are literally unwinnable (and the rogue provider then runs off with the proceeds, see TopGame and its successors Octopus Gaming, Pragmatic Play and IGTech).

 

[Don't be rigged now]

I do think providers have more power than we know. The amount of times brand new no limit city games have paid out when first released for me is mental, they then follow the same pattern of being “turned down” to almost zero pay outs

 

[jasonuk]

I do think providers have more power than we know. The amount of times brand new no limit city games have paid out when first released for me is mental, they then follow the same pattern of being “turned down” to almost zero pay outs

I would argue that is more to do with marketing - particularly now-a-days with streamers hitting millions in monopoly money every few minutes while living in their parent's basement. More people play and more people get those lucky hits (and everyone hears about them)… then the early / fake money moves on to the next target and the remaining players realise the stark reality of a ultra-high variance game... particularly in the UK where you can't skip the 50,000+ spins required for that 800x super bonus buy.

There have been a number of threads over the years of people calling various established providers rigged, and never ponied up meaningful evidence. There are examples of games being withdrawn due to defects in the game engine (which involved a lot of investigation, reports and refunds) and absolutely lots of tricks being used to lower the RTP in the short term (stored value traps) and long term (confusing optimal strategies) - but that's a different beast to a game being "turned down" on the sly (as opposed to relaunched with a lower RTP model, which is similarly dirty but 'allowed' by the regulator asleep at the wheel).

 

[vegasfem]

Sounds like you are experiencing Apophenia (the tendency to perceive meaningful connections in random or unrelated results)…

You're right that humans don't do random, that's why certified hardware devices for RNG are usually physical hardware utilising natural phenomena. The integrity of these aren't just important for gambling, but for any security-based implementation... if you can break it, things get very bad very quickly (as happened with the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

many years ago).

Casino games largely break down into four categories:

• True random - the game behaves according to true odds - e.g. most table games, and older slot games, where each reel stop has an equal chance of landing and each reel is an independent RNG call. While people think of a spin as "one" RNG call, it's possible that triggers multiple or dozens of separate RNG requests.
• Weighted random - the game behaves according to a documented or undocumented weighting, so while the RNG is real, the result presented is skewed by the weighting.
• Scratchcard slots - particularly common now-a-days with streamer slots, the entire game round is one or few RNG calls, akin to picking a ball from a bag. Depending on the scripted implementation, the game can infer chances that have zero probability of occurring.
• Compensated - this is restricted to certain markets (for example, AWPs in the UK) where the machine is not random and some decisions will not use an RNG at all (e.g. you gamble and you will lose regardless of your choice).

You are confusing strike rate with randomness... for a single line the odds of winning may well be 1 in 50, but when you are playing 10, 20, 25 lines those odds are combined and generate a curve of probabilities. Much like a single line will never pay a micro-win, but playing 25 lines often will.


In a regulated market, that would require operators, providers and regulators to all be in cahoots rigging the casino games... while technically possible, their collective incompetence suggests they would be unable to keep it secret if such an event was going on.

Meanwhile, in an unregulated or rogue market, it's much more likely to find a rogue operator working in cahoots with a rogue provider (or they are one and the same) and at that point all bets are off. We've heard plenty of horror stories of fake/pirated slots pretending to be NetEnt that are designed to pay almost nothing, fake/pirated blackjack providers that think Blackjack ties with Dealer 20, or progressive jackpots that are literally unwinnable (and the rogue provider then runs off with the proceeds, see TopGame and its successors Octopus Gaming, Pragmatic Play and IGTech).

Your explanations about randomness carry more weight with regulated brick and mortar casinos and sportsbetting where a lot more money and effort is invested in machines. Not so much with unregulated online casino slots. Much less effort is devoted to their technology, and one has been able to trace the slow development of their intricacies. A lot of the earliest casinos were set up using the same, relatively simple systems and games. Only over time did they start developing complexities and did more game sources enter the online market. My experience isn't from current play but over decades of play. I don't see random other than what I identify. However my experience differs from most in that I have always been a low-budget player. Unlike most, I've spent a lot more time "onesing" it and so can detect the play difference. There is a reason why casinos (both on and offline) have, over time, eliminated almost all one-line, one-bet play and not many players have marked this change. Nowadays, typically 20 cents or more per spin is required per game. It is because swinging between extremes after establishing a bet level is the surest way to trigger either a good pay or a slot bonus. And, if you can successfully monkey around to do that during play, that in itself shows that the play is not random. But, as I say, once you win a decent amount at one casino, you are unlikely to do the same successive sessions for awhile. And, if you note the online sites that advertise recent player wins, you can easily find sites where bit pays count in the hundreds or under versus those sites that show players who win 10K or more and sometime repeatedly. Obviously play at those sites are set to different parameters and are not random.

 

[vegasfem]

My last jackpot at a brick and mortar casino was on a penny machine with $20. I "onesied" it for a penny over 120 spins, then upped my one-line bet to 5 cents for 20 spins and then reduced it to 3 cents for 4 spins before full-line betting it at 3 cents (a $3 spin) for ONE spin. That one $3 spin was a bonus round that paid my $1,300 jackpot, and I relied upon the likelihood of the 5 spin, 10 spin and 20 spin cycles being ruling.
Most players playing that same machine will just full-bet the $1 per spin, or the $5 per spin, or the $3 per spin and even if they possibly move between those bets for a bit, generate a lot less volitality than my play and are unlikely to make a jackpot while spending a lot more $.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

It's why people complain that sportsbooks won't stand a bet anymore - and they're right to a large extent.

Despite books being far larger than exchanges, it's exchanges that tend to lead because they'll offer the best price and there's enough liquidity to hurt books in terms of arbitrage (and books will rapidly limit players who do, see "matched betting" a few years ago where arguably millions of accounts were stake limited based on direct arbitrage or bonus-based arbitrage).

Prices will move very quickly if a book is exposed to an arbitrage, although that is fairly rare now as books have increased their margins substantially - earning statements citing 10% hold isn't uncommon.

We've all heard the stores from sites like Bet365 that will turn on a sixpence depending on if you are winning or losing - people who have lost five figures and have substantial limits available, had one lucky bet that puts them in the green and immediately get bonus banned and stake limited.

It's the same with predatory bonuses - hey, deposit and get this £100 bonus today! (200xB wagering applies, £10 max redemption) - if people understood what the terms were everyone would rightly run a mile... but they ignore the legalise and get manipulated and often get trapped in bonus funds.

You should use Betting Exchanges if you have any sense. You cant get excluded for arbitrage betting because you are betting against other customers.