Depositing at Videoslots again, because at least it works

[kidgloves]

Just going back to Chocolates - the RTP is clearly displayed at Videoslots but the same menu screen for Chocolates at Bet365 does not show the RTP. Given Bet 365's reputation for higher RTP's it's unusual it's not displayed here.

 

[Kroffe]

Just going back to Chocolates - the RTP is clearly displayed at Videoslots but the same menu screen for Chocolates at Bet365 does not show the RTP. Given Bet 365's reputation for higher RTP's it's unusual it's not displayed here.

I think its just a different version, if you press the (!) in the upper left corner on the Bet365 version it will open a window showing the rtp (among other things).
I think the same is true for all BTG slots, as in they all have a MG version that plays slightly different, for example on Bonanza the cascades are super fast compared to the original version.

 

[Guntis]

The thing for me is that this is what talk about reloading the slot to get a 'different session', or indeed literally any 'technique' whatsoever when applied to a random game with a house edge, sounds like

You press SPIN, your client requests a result from the server's RNG, the result is generated, and it's returned to your client to display it, be it a Jammin' Jars style game scratchcard that plays out a pre-scripted sequence, or individual stop results for each reel, a pick-me round result, whatever.

That's it, that's the whole thing. Always.

So take Book Of Dead for example, you don't need a massive number of spins to determine average feature frequency and distribution within decent mathematically accurate boundaries, especially when the feature is fairly common as it is on BoD.

Give it 20K spins and track your stats into two data sets, one set is reloading the slot every 100 spins, one set is (if possible) a single extended session, or at least as close as you can get. I guarantee you'll be very close in terms of feature frequency and distribution by the end of it.

50K spins done in the same way would be margin of error closeness.

I've done quite a bit of stats-tracking on Bonanza over in the Bonanza thread, with all my numbers there for everyone to see, there are good, bad and middling sessions in there, but if you average them out, you're incredibly close to the expected feature frequency (1/460) and RTP.

Just for fun to see what happens, i'll give it a go as you say - around 20k spins on BOD - and I'll try both sets non-stop.

But to me, reloading the game is like jumping to another slot machine at a real casino rather than staying on the same one non-stop.

Essentially, i don't want the previous game session associated with me as soon as i close it down. It just looks odd to me.

Online, it's generally possible to avoid this by starting the same game on another site. On the same site, most providers i play save your game, except for Play'n GO, and previously, NetEnt. Now Netent does it too.

At a real casino it's simple. Just leave a slot machine as soon as you see it 'dying' and try the same game on another. It's a fresh start and has nothing to do with the game I just played.

A real world example would be if both of us had £300 - you would stay on one machine, while I would spread my £300 across 2 or 3 depending on how the first one plays out after some 50-100 spins.

Sure it's not magic but from experience i think it's more profitable.

 

[kidgloves]

I think its just a different version, if you press the (!) in the upper left corner on the Bet365 version it will open a window showing the rtp (among other things).
I think the same is true for all BTG slots, as in they all have a MG version that plays slightly different, for example on Bonanza the cascades are super fast compared to the original version.

Thanks Kroffe - that little ! evaded me.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just for fun to see what happens, i'll give it a go as you say - around 20k spins on BOD - and I'll try both sets non-stop.

But to me, reloading the game is like jumping to another slot machine at a real casino rather than staying on the same one non-stop.

Essentially, i don't want the previous game session associated with me as soon as i close it down. It just looks odd to me.

Online, it's generally possible to avoid this by starting the same game on another site. On the same site, most providers i play save your game, except for Play'n GO, and previously, NetEnt. Now Netent does it too.

At a real casino it's simple. Just leave a slot machine as soon as you see it 'dying' and try the same game on another. It's a fresh start and has nothing to do with the game I just played.

A real world example would be if both of us had £300 - you would stay on one machine, while I would spread my £300 across 2 or 3 depending on how the first one plays out after some 50-100 spins.

Sure it's not magic but from experience i think it's more profitable.

Well it it's more profitable then you've just beaten the entire online casino system and managed to create higher RTP versions of online slots for yourself

We had a good chat about this sort of thing over at Desert Island Fruits in relation to randomness, as random machines are now the standard in UK pubs. It was in relation to the 50/50 card gambles that some machines offer, and as random chance will eventually achieve near-perfect 50/50 distribution in the results, if you watch someone lose a load of gambles on a long run of red, is it correct to guess black if you jump on the machine next?

Online slots are, in a way, just roulette wheels with a massively expanded set of results, and the same principles of randomness applies.

Anyway, a few decent comments from that thread.

--------------------------

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[ChopleyIOM]

Going to have a midweek punt at this arsehole.

King of Cats? Cunt of Cats, more like.

DING DING ROUND THREE - So far I am two rounds down to this, with the second round being a brutal knockout.

Hope springs eternal!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This game can be pure filth when it wants to be.

Hundreds of spins for a bonus, TWO RETRIGGERS, and it still finishes at 31x.

Feature start.

First retrigger.

Second retrigger.

27 spins in total. Epic multipliers (you can see those to the right) that missed time and time again.

Not impressed!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Not amazing but the best so far.

Purple gems with a big multiplier, x8 times x12 = 96x = 480x for a 5OAK. Put a purple gem on reel 6 there and that would have been 2400x just for a single 6OAK!

Anyway, finally a solid bonus round, 521x.

And this was only two reels covered with the multiplying wilds, all four on reels 2-4 can land simultaneously in free spins.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well that's a bit more like it, just over doubled my money and can withdraw £203.

My overall RTP on the game is still a bit off the pace, but this is a big improvement.

Plenty of features in 2140 spins, along with a 67x and 103x basegame hit.

Finish point after a final decent win in the basegame to take me over £200. (I'd already decided to call it at either £150 or £200, whichever happened first.)

All feature and notable (50x or better) basegame pays for the session:

(RT indicates retrigger, leading number denotes how many, i.e. 1RT, 2RT etc.)

Tonight's session:

Overall RTP on this slot so far:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I decided to stick around for more, paid off!

608x

 

[Reelsoffun]

That’s another under rated game I feel, had some monsters on it. But another one that if it’s cold can really hurt.

 

[Kroffe]

I decided to stick around for more, paid off!

608x

View attachment 200629

You should play Starquest.
For some reason that slot disappeared from the Swedish market but i think its still available to others.
If memory serves it was like a Megaways version of Starburst with multiplying wilds.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That’s another under rated game I feel, had some monsters on it. But another one that if it’s cold can really hurt.

TBH I've got something of a renewed respect for BTG's output here in the year 2024. Their stuff is often too volatile for where I'd prefer to be, but fundamentally the RTPs are solid - (at least on the old stuff, I note VS are taking their newer games at 94% and I won't be touching those with a bargepole) - so as long as you've got the bankroll to ride them out, they'll get there in the end, and there's always the chance of a monster pay, which the likes of Blueprints are fundamentally incapable of.

BTG's production values are generally high, I like their visual and sound design, and once you get past the Megaways thing (and not all of their games even use them), there's a decent amount of variety in their portfolio. (Lucky Streak Mark 2 is fantastic, a superb theme for a slot, executed brilliantly.)

Sometimes it all goes a bit wrong IMO, for example Rasputin Megaways with the fully evolved reels that turns into an unamusing farce, but all providers have their hits and misses

 

[mack341]

Jungle spirit by netent is a very dangerous game imo, I've given it a few goes over the years. It's still around in its 96% form, but getting north of £35 down on 20p is remarkably easy to do, the butterfly bonus is sort of capped at 50x, never got anywhere near a £10 tbh.

So that versus bonanza, or several other btg games, and the choice is clear. The all the ways can come in and give you a 500x.

It's a mystery to me what netent do with the rtp really. Perhaps if you played their games at £10 a spin, the dynamics might be in your favour of getting £1-200 up and then bailing out.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Yes I like queen of riches but not available to me on videoslots.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Back home late this evening after a busy day.

Fired up Queen Of Riches again.

After 11 spins it does this. (The autoplayer there is on 89, that's 11 spins into my first 100 spin block.)

This balance is from my £100 deposit two nights ago.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

In the interests of balance, I then moved onto Star Quest, which promptly did this to me

Would have been worse than this but for a late 192x win.

Not that many spins but still enough to take my balance down £100 from its peak on 20p spins!

HV slots certainly are a roller coaster of emotions

 

[mack341]

Back home late this evening after a busy day.

Fired up Queen Of Riches again.

After 11 spins it does this. (The autoplayer there is on 89, that's 11 spins into my first 100 spin block.)

This balance is from my £100 deposit two nights ago.

View attachment 200647
View attachment 200648

You went back to dip your toe in the water because you suspected (rightly) that this random, non-compensatory slot was doing a bit of hot streak activity

Now will you go and dip your toe back into starquest or queen of bitches if you had to choose one?

£100 (could've been more?) down on a slot, playing 20p, imo does challenge the random feel when it's happened to me.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You went back to dip your toe in the water because you suspected (rightly) that this random, non-compensatory slot was doing a bit of hot streak activity

Now will you go and dip your toe back into starquest or queen of bitches if you had to choose one?

£100 (could've been more?) down on a slot, playing 20p, imo does challenge the random feel when it's happened to me.

Star Quest has redeemed itself a bit

538x

HV games are just really lumpy, and human beings love to see patterns in things that aren't really there.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've now been playing on the same £100 deposit at VS since the 3rd September, all on BTG slots (checking they're at 96% or higher RTP), generally grinding away at the same game for quite an extended period until it kicks something back, and sometimes staying on after that point.

All play has been on 20p spins.

Stats below, but the key takeaway is clearly that decent, long runs on gameplay are still entirely possible.

My balance has dropped quite a bit since its peak of £350, but I still have a withdrawable balance of £219.78p from a £100 deposit I made five days ago.

CHOPLEY'S BIG ASSERTION - Online slots are the same as they've ever been, stick to 96% or better (unless low volatility game), match your stake to bankroll, be prepared to ride out the down patches, and they'll get there in the end. You'll lose over time, of course you will, you're playing a random game with a generous house edge (4% is a generous house edge), but you can still have some fun with your money.

They're not compensated, they don't cheat you, they haven't been gimped - (unless you're playing 94% slots, PRO TIP, don't do that) - there are no patterns and you can't predict in advance if you're going to have a good or bad session. If you could you'd be a millionaire already.

If you have a different opinion then fine, but it'd be nice if you could produce the receipts, as I keep doing with my actual stats which I post here for everyone to see.

Deposit, have a spin, be prepared to lose, but hope to win.

Session stats since 3rd September:

Overall extended session RTP = 102.2%
Overall sessions spins total = 11490

Total playtime = Around 19 hours (evidenced by Bandicam footage)

 

[dunover]

I've now been playing on the same £100 deposit at VS since the 3rd September, all on BTG slots (checking they're at 96% or higher RTP), generally grinding away at the same game for quite an extended period until it kicks something back, and sometimes staying on after that point.

All play has been on 20p spins.

Stats below, but the key takeaway is clearly that decent, long runs on gameplay are still entirely possible.

My balance has dropped quite a bit since its peak of £350, but I still have a withdrawable balance of £219.78p from a £100 deposit I made five days ago.

CHOPLEY'S BIG ASSERTION - Online slots are the same as they've ever been, stick to 96% or better (unless low volatility game), match your stake to bankroll, be prepared to ride out the down patches, and they'll get there in the end. You'll lose over time, of course you will, you're playing a random game with a generous house edge (4% is a generous house edge), but you can still have some fun with your money.

They're not compensated, they don't cheat you, they haven't been gimped - (unless you're playing 94% slots, PRO TIP, don't do that) - there are no patterns and you can't predict in advance if you're going to have a good or bad session. If you could you'd be a millionaire already.

If you have a different opinion then fine, but it'd be nice if could produce the receipts, as I keep doing with my actual stats which I post here for everyone to see.

Deposit, have a spin, be prepared to lose, but hope to win.

Session stats since 3rd September:

Overall extended session RTP = 102.2%
Overall sessions spins total = 11490

Total playtime = Around 19 hours (evidenced by Bandicam footage)

View attachment 200695
View attachment 200696
View attachment 200697
View attachment 200698
View attachment 200699
View attachment 200700

Yeah, 102.2% on BTG slots only, for an extended time...
No reason why with a little stake strategy that you can't keep that going for a year or two.

 

[geordiecolin]

I've now been playing on the same £100 deposit at VS since the 3rd September, all on BTG slots (checking they're at 96% or higher RTP), generally grinding away at the same game for quite an extended period until it kicks something back, and sometimes staying on after that point.

All play has been on 20p spins.

Stats below, but the key takeaway is clearly that decent, long runs on gameplay are still entirely possible.

My balance has dropped quite a bit since its peak of £350, but I still have a withdrawable balance of £219.78p from a £100 deposit I made five days ago.

CHOPLEY'S BIG ASSERTION - Online slots are the same as they've ever been, stick to 96% or better (unless low volatility game), match your stake to bankroll, be prepared to ride out the down patches, and they'll get there in the end. You'll lose over time, of course you will, you're playing a random game with a generous house edge (4% is a generous house edge), but you can still have some fun with your money.

They're not compensated, they don't cheat you, they haven't been gimped - (unless you're playing 94% slots, PRO TIP, don't do that) - there are no patterns and you can't predict in advance if you're going to have a good or bad session. If you could you'd be a millionaire already.

If you have a different opinion then fine, but it'd be nice if could produce the receipts, as I keep doing with my actual stats which I post here for everyone to see.

Deposit, have a spin, be prepared to lose, but hope to win.

Session stats since 3rd September:

Overall extended session RTP = 102.2%
Overall sessions spins total = 11490

Total playtime = Around 19 hours (evidenced by Bandicam footage)

View attachment 200695
View attachment 200696
View attachment 200697
View attachment 200698
View attachment 200699
View attachment 200700

Videoslots has been my main place to play at for maybe 7 years. I expect to lose long term for the fun I get from slotting and despite the changes over the past few years my RTP has improved over that time. Which proves to me that Videoslots are still doing most things right. ( On a shit run there at the moment )

 

[Kroffe]

I've now been playing on the same £100 deposit at VS since the 3rd September, all on BTG slots (checking they're at 96% or higher RTP), generally grinding away at the same game for quite an extended period until it kicks something back, and sometimes staying on after that point.

All play has been on 20p spins.

Stats below, but the key takeaway is clearly that decent, long runs on gameplay are still entirely possible.

My balance has dropped quite a bit since its peak of £350, but I still have a withdrawable balance of £219.78p from a £100 deposit I made five days ago.

CHOPLEY'S BIG ASSERTION - Online slots are the same as they've ever been, stick to 96% or better (unless low volatility game), match your stake to bankroll, be prepared to ride out the down patches, and they'll get there in the end. You'll lose over time, of course you will, you're playing a random game with a generous house edge (4% is a generous house edge), but you can still have some fun with your money.

They're not compensated, they don't cheat you, they haven't been gimped - (unless you're playing 94% slots, PRO TIP, don't do that) - there are no patterns and you can't predict in advance if you're going to have a good or bad session. If you could you'd be a millionaire already.

If you have a different opinion then fine, but it'd be nice if you could produce the receipts, as I keep doing with my actual stats which I post here for everyone to see.

Deposit, have a spin, be prepared to lose, but hope to win.

Session stats since 3rd September:

Overall extended session RTP = 102.2%
Overall sessions spins total = 11490

Total playtime = Around 19 hours (evidenced by Bandicam footage)

View attachment 200695
View attachment 200696
View attachment 200697
View attachment 200698
View attachment 200699
View attachment 200700

Receipts, and despite what women tell you size does matter so these are obviously more legit than your small receipts.
Confirmed as rigged until you can provide bigger receipts proving otherwise.

I have even bigger receipts but when i try to display the rtp from 2019 up until current date the site just loads for an eternity then crashes, and its annoying doing it in batches of a couple months so i wont bother with it until i see bigger receipts from you.
The site doesnt seem to like it when its more than a couple thousand spins it has to display.

 

[Jono777]

Yeah, Sorry Chops but that's a load of rubbish mate.

If such a thing still exists, I'd say you were just on a lucky streak in terms of play time.

I slog it out on the same slot each and every deposit, granted these are smaller amounts and not £100 and also not that often but a quick check reveals an RTP of about 80% since June. (or at least I'm told 80%, feels more like 20% if totally honest)

It's dead constantly and the speed in which deposits vanish often makes me say out loud that it is like "The site is hanging on for dear life" or "Is this site borderline going bust?" It does seem they are that anxious to gobble a fresh deposit as fast as possible.

I and many, MANY others on here do not get anything even remotely close to what you describe.

Sorry mate, I ain't posting shit loads of screenshots or "proof" but i know what I see and experience and I am also not an idiot or a liar.

I don't play for withdrawals, these are an added bonus, I don't expect to win, I can afford the small amounts I do lose but what I do expect is the odd value for a deposit and not to be ripped off at 100MPH.

*Can you also tell from the mannerism of this post that a £15 deposit has literally just vanished on 9p bets in about 20 minutes

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yeah, Sorry Chops but that's a load of rubbish mate.

If such a thing still exists, I'd say you were just on a lucky streak in terms of play time.

I slog it out on the same slot each and every deposit, granted these are smaller amounts and not £100 and also not that often but a quick check reveals an RTP of about 80% since June. (or at least I'm told 80%, feels more like 20% if totally honest)

It's dead constantly and the speed in which deposits vanish often makes me say out loud that it is like "The site is hanging on for dear life" or "Is this site borderline going bust?" It does seem they are that anxious to gobble a fresh deposit as fast as possible.

I and many, MANY others on here do not get anything even remotely close to what you describe.

Sorry mate, I ain't posting shit loads of screenshots or "proof" but i know what I see and experience and I am also not an idiot or a liar.

I don't play for withdrawals, these are an added bonus, I don't expect to win, I can afford the small amounts I do lose but what I do expect is the odd value for a deposit and not to be ripped off at 100MPH.

*Can you also tell from the mannerism of this post that a £15 deposit has literally just vanished on 9p bets in about 20 minutes

I'm not at all denying your experience Jono, how you feel about your play is entirely up to you, but sometimes it's useful to bring some statistics into the discussion because our feelings don't always line up fully with the reality of a situation.

Looking at Kroffe's numbers above he's certainly had some bad batches recently, although I'd be interested to see his 'overall RTP' figure at VS.

I've had bad runs and good runs over the years along with everyone else, there were some hellish sessions back on my previous YT channel with suitably colourful language to match, but ultimately it's all going to come down to the same thing, for everyone - you'll lose, on average, the house edge.

On my modest 20p spins, each spin effectively 'costs' me 0.8p assuming a 96% slot. So if I do 2000 spins in an evening, my expected loss, assuming RTP, is £16. Of course the variance of slots means that figure can and will fluctuate wildly, but given a large enough sample size, that's where it's going to end up. There is no way to beat that.

What I'm really trying to make a counterpoint to, is this notion that there's something sinister going on with online slots, beyond just volatile games with a generous house edge inevitably taking our money off us eventually, and sometimes more quickly than others.

I'm down at VS this year, not by a massive amount, but I've still lost, as a low-rolling grind style player who clocks up many thousands of spins (nearly 12K in the last week alone), that's always where it's going to end up, although at least BTG's games give the (alleged ) hope of hitting a monster that could skew the numbers a lot.

Anyway, I had one final flourish on Over The Moon so at a balance of £290 I decided to finally make a withdrawal from what was originally a £100 deposit for this extended session.

Four features in 255 spins that paid 23x, 90x, 96x and 235x, it felt like the right time to stop riding my luck.

 

[Jono777]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

 

[paul7388]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

Think I've said it before Jon but will say it again.

You know like yourself I'm a small depositer compared to years ago. But to be honest i get a fair bit of luck and and normally playtime. Would even guess I am actually up on slots this year.

But big difference is I rarely ever play at VS anymore. I know you are loyal I just cannot understand why. I know it used to be for the battles and the wheels etc. But those days are gone. Why anyone would actually put themselves throught playing the pointless battles I will never know.

Just with the amount of sites available I cannot understand why you keep playing at a site that is so unlucky.

Also to be honest I rarely ever played DOA as I found it boring as hell even with autoplay and it just took my money slowly. Was never a lucky slot for me and the thought of playing it at a reduced RTP would never enter my mind. I know you have had luck before but like you say its a different slot nowadays.

All just makes me wonder why if you want playtime you keep going back to one of the most boring slots out. I know you low roll like me but there are plenty of 10p slots to choose. I actually play Diamond MIne Megaways 2 a lot at 10p and quite often get good play and profit from it. Yeah I also get times where I deposit and lose with in minutes with dead spin after another. But the good sessions balance the bad.

Anyway none of my business i just feel if you changed casino and especially slot you might get a change of luck or at least more playtime.

 

[Jono777]

Don't stick to VS for battles or wheels mate, although you're right to a point, these were 90% of the reasons I USED to stick to it.

Guess I've kind of found myself institutionalized really, although I don't change due to worrying (probably needlessly with the size and frequency of my deposits lol ) about KYC / Sow / Not being paid out etc.

I'd happily move my budget to L&L or similar, maybe Mark's Lottomart but again, I stress about what I mention above where *touch wood* VS seems to be happy with the way I manage and use my account.

"The one with the numbers" from the videos I watch REALLY seems to offer the play session of "yesteryear" as I miss and crave but no way on this planet am I getting into the Crypto nonsense or VPN's etc etc lol

 

[geordiecolin]

Think I've said it before Jon but will say it again.

You know like yourself I'm a small depositer compared to years ago. But to be honest i get a fair bit of luck and and normally playtime. Would even guess I am actually up on slots this year.

But big difference is I rarely ever play at VS anymore. I know you are loyal I just cannot understand why. I know it used to be for the battles and the wheels etc. But those days are gone. Why anyone would actually put themselves throught playing the pointless battles I will never know.

Just with the amount of sites available I cannot understand why you keep playing at a site that is so unlucky.

Also to be honest I rarely ever played DOA as I found it boring as hell even with autoplay and it just took my money slowly. Was never a lucky slot for me and the thought of playing it at a reduced RTP would never enter my mind. I know you have had luck before but like you say its a different slot nowadays.

All just makes me wonder why if you want playtime you keep going back to one of the most boring slots out. I know you low roll like me but there are plenty of 10p slots to choose. I actually play Diamond MIne Megaways 2 a lot at 10p and quite often get good play and profit from it. Yeah I also get times where I deposit and lose with in minutes with dead spin after another. But the good sessions balance the bad.

Anyway none of my business i just feel if you changed casino and especially slot you might get a change of luck or at least more playtime.

Hey Paul I am one of those who thinks that loyalty to a few casinos reduces your losses as the laws of balance -and RTP- means that over an extended time you get back a large % of what you put in.

I spent a few years as a Meister Minion trying out all of the recommended sites from here plus those going through the fire thing and I had never witnessed such yearly losses due to spreading my bets too thinly.

And Jono I just blew very quickly another £50 in DOA2 on 18p spins with just 2 bonus rounds but I consider it an investment for next time despite the random bollix

 

[paul7388]

Hey Paul I am one of those who thinks that loyalty to a few casinos reduces your losses as the laws of balance -and RTP- means that over an extended time you get back a large % of what you put in.

I spent a few years as a Meister Minion trying out all of the recommended sites from here plus those going through the fire thing and I had never witnessed such yearly losses due to spreading my bets too thinly.

Yeah Geordie I tend to agree with you.

I only play at a handful of casinos myself. And that's the bookies sites and mainly Paddy Power and Bet365. Apart from them the only other casino is Lottomart.

And from that selection I do okay. My point was more tho that if one of those sites I never got luck and kept losing nearly every time I would eventually stop playing there and stick to the others.

Never really played at any of the sites from here or any of the baptism ones. Only really ever played Lottomart, Guts and Videoslots from here.

Just never going to play at casinos that want copies of cards , bank statements and all that garbage where the casinos I play don't ask for it as of yet.

I know people say you should always play at casinos that are accredited here as safe choices. But they are only safe till something goes wrong. Saw way to many accredited casinos on here suddenly go wrong leaving players screwed. I would rather win well at a bookies site knowing I should get paid rather than take the chances of a good win and all the garbage that follows at some of the accredited casinos.

 

[geordiecolin]

Yeah Geordie I tend to agree with you.

I only play at a handful of casinos myself. And that's the bookies sites and mainly Paddy Power and Bet365. Apart from them the only other casino is Lottomart.

And from that selection I do okay. My point was more tho that if one of those sites I never got luck and kept losing nearly every time I would eventually stop playing there and stick to the others.

Never really played at any of the sites from here or any of the baptism ones. Only really ever played Lottomart, Guts and Videoslots from here.

Just never going to play at casinos that want copies of cards , bank statements and all that garbage where the casinos I play don't ask for it as of yet.

I know people say you should always play at casinos that are accredited here as safe choices. But they are only safe till something goes wrong. Saw way to many accredited casinos on here suddenly go wrong leaving players screwed. I would rather win well at a bookies site knowing I should get paid rather than take the chances of a good win and all the garbage that follows at some of the accredited casinos.

The trouble with so many casino's wishing to go through the baptism of fire in here was/is their want to gain credibility because that has to be worth some to them.
I have reduced my bookie slot betting to PP only. Is Guts still going in the UK?
I have left casino's - goatwack will insist that it should be casinos I'm sure- due to their intrusiveness. But to be fair its our governments,and their insistence of controlling everything that dictates who gets to have a slice of the pie in UK online gambling.

 

[geordiecolin]

Don't stick to VS for battles or wheels mate, although you're right to a point, these were 90% of the reasons I USED to stick to it.

Guess I've kind of found myself institutionalized really, although I don't change due to worrying (probably needlessly with the size and frequency of my deposits lol ) about KYC / Sow / Not being paid out etc.

I'd happily move my budget to L&L or similar, maybe Mark's Lottomart but again, I stress about what I mention above where *touch wood* VS seems to be happy with the way I manage and use my account.

"The one with the numbers" from the videos I watch REALLY seems to offer the play session of "yesteryear" as I miss and crave but no way on this planet am I getting into the Crypto nonsense or VPN's etc etc lol

I am one of those old fashioned types too. Nothing must be worse that making a deposit with a large account in crypto only to find once you have finished your casino session that your nice account has crashed to nothing.
I did try to invest in crypto a few years back but the hoops I understood prevented me doing so. I'm so happy that I didn't invest.
I prefer having quite a lot of of money at home in cash. Shit use for online gambling

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just a footnote on the 'lucky casino' thing. Back in the days of the MG Viper Client I had casinos I felt were more lucky than others. The prevailing wisdom at the time was that all MG Viper casinos were just branded frontends for the same backend. Indeed if you looked at the install folder on your PC/laptop (and found the hidden MGS folder), you could see all the common files in there, and then an extra folder for each of the casino frontends with their own little intros and stuff, but basically it was all common resources. However the real meat and two veg of course, is server side.

There was talk here at CM about some casinos being 'better' than others, some would allegedly do things on the games that the others wouldn't, and so on. I too gravitated to some more than others, and thought some were luckier than others, even though logically I knew it made no difference.

Anyway fast forward a few years from then (although still a few years ago now) and I happened to be chatting to an ex-engineer from MG (MG/Derivco being headquartered on the IOM of course, and they have a lot of employees, past and present). I took the opportunity to ask him about the old Viper client system (retired by this point) and I found out a few interesting details from a tech nerd perspective - (some of the stuff that thing was running on at the backend was really old (but reliable) tech!) - but the main thing was how the various casinos worked.

And yes, absolutely everything went to the same backends and server/RNG calls, the casinos had no say over anything, there was no such thing as a 'lucky' casino in terms of any difference in how they got their results for the player or choices the casino could make, it made no difference if you were on a bonus or not with WR, or anything else, sure you might personally be luckier at some than others, but in terms of the games themselves, any casino that was running any MG game was absolutely identical in every way.

Now, here in the year 2024 we know for an absolute fact that there are multiple versions of the same games knocking around, most obviously in games existing in multiple RTP variations (something MG never had back in the day, they were all the same), a 94% PnG game is not pulling from the same pool of results as a 96% PnG game. Does that extend out to other choices? Can VS choose a different version of a 94% slot to another casino running ostensibly the same 94% slot? Bonanza is floating around on multiple revisions at any given time, at least as far as what is reported at the client level, even at the same RTP.

For me personally it doesn't make any sense for a provider to try and maintain multiple code branches for the same game, that's a lot of extra effort for no real reward, sure they need to when it comes to the different RTP choices (NLC for example do 92/94/96 now), but to further sub-divide that out into more variations, I can't see happening - but I could be wrong.

There's no harm in deciding that a certain casino is lucky or unlucky for you, and choosing to play or not play somewhere on that basis. Making that choice is, at worse, a neutral decision.

That said I don't think there's any concept of needing a large sample of spins at a casino to start to see RTP level out or anything like that, and I don't think flitting around a load of different casinos is any different to hammering away at the same one. Random numbers don't care about where you're generating them from, or how many you've generated so far. Do one billion spins at a billion different casinos, with just a single spin at each, or one billion spins at the same casino - and your end result would be the same, you'll have lost the house edge within the margin of error.

I signed up at GUTS when they were the new thing here at CM, took the full SUB, hit a near max win on MG's Hitman within a couple of hundred spins, forfeited the rest of the bonus, cashed out a juicy profit, and for no particular reason never played there ever again, my RTP there must have been like 2000% or something.

For me RTP is king, it's the single more important factor when choosing a game to play, I think it's commonly accepted wisdom now that 94% is a VERY different proposition to 96% for the player (I remember a few folks arguing otherwise when the drops in RTP started happening!), personally I stick to 95% or higher, if I see 94.xx or lower on the RTP screen, then it's a big no for me.

If there comes a point when VS start stripping out the older, higher RTP games from their books and there's only 94.xx stuff left to play, then I'll find myself something else to do with the time and money I currently spend on slotting.

 

[dunover]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

That whole post could be explained in one sentence - DoA is an extremely high volatility game and losing most sessions, eventually getting a 'refunder' via a big win is exactly how I would expect it to be.

Conversely, if you were getting 2h+ play for each deposit you wouldn't be hitting exciting multi-thousand times wins - the pot cannot contain both gentle Starburst-style base game time AND potential for 10k times hits.

The trouble with us slot players is that expectation often doesn't relate to the unimpeachable reality of the game maths.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That whole post could be explained in one sentence - DoA is an extremely high volatility game and losing most sessions, eventually getting a 'refunder' via a big win is exactly how I would expect it to be.

Conversely, if you were getting 2h+ play for each deposit you wouldn't be hitting exciting multi-thousand times wins - the pot cannot contain both gentle Starburst-style base game time AND potential for 10k times hits.

The trouble with us slot players is that expectation often doesn't relate to the unimpeachable reality of the game maths.

Yeah I played DoA a fair amount back in the day, back when it was in its alleged 'good' form in the heyday of NetEnt and 100% bonuses still being a regular occurrence. Could never hit a bloody thing of note on it, and certainly not a wildline or the fabled five scatters.

I've said over in the Bonanza thread that you literally just need to go back to the start of the thread and read over the early months of that game and player experiences, for some people it was playing like an absolute bag of spanners right out of the gate, exactly how some people will insist it's been 'changed to' from this previously much better version that from the descriptions of it, apparently had an RTP of around 128% and always gave at least six bonuses per evening at an even distribution of 300 spins per bonus.

There's only so much RTP to go round, and like you say dunover, to cover all the bases that players would like to see a slot deliver, would also mean RTPs well north of 100%.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I don’t understand why anybody would play DOA when they know it’s now on a shitty RTP and they also know that your game time will be halved and the casinos profit will increase by 50% on every single long term spin that you have???

It’s fucking insanity when it’s hard enough to win on anything that’s on 96%!!!!

Why do people keep playing low RTP slots??? Why??

If you think it’s not the same as it once was it’s because it’s absolutely not!!

Play it somewhere else where you know it’s on full whack at least!!

 

[Jono777]

This is the thing though that most have overlooked....Maybe I could have explained more in depth, who knows

What I described as in good play time, "refunders" and player experience, I WAS getting.

I was also getting this REGULARLY on the HTML5 changeover and more importantly STILL getting it on the 94.03% version and OFTEN.

All of a sudden it is if some sort of compensation and change in code has occurred

I know most will still argue the point and I'm sat here listening but without mentioning something new and avoiding the variance / RTP argument I will struggle to understand what has REALLY happened.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

What’s ur long term RTP on the game at VS??

 

[Jono777]

What’s ur long term RTP on the game at VS??

Not sure, I shall have a look later.

However this may show at closer to TRTP than I realise due to the seldom big hits which does not cover the scenario I describe in terms of dwindling game time and value for deposits as the years/month's have rolled by.

 

[TheAddict]

Coming from someone who also only really played DOA, Jono is kinda right, biarches!
sure it runs a bit slower with autoplay, but you really was able yo sit there for days on a 300x bankroll and a litle bit of luck. I used to do it all the time using reloads, and if losing a reload, going to the next site. Hence the 100 lines during all that (life wasting boredom) fun

The game simply no longer produces such lengthy sessions, that were regular and often weekly occurrences for me before seeing that Evo boot up screen dfhifnjorefnksvdcds sdnfjkdwfwdli
:....(

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Specifically back on VS, my play last week generated 75 free spins from Clash Of Spins, at 10p/20p spins on a variety of slots, these usually generate a small amount in the region of £3-£5. Nothing to get too excited about in some regards but as wager-free funds in my account it's a reasonable little perk.

Anyway this week one of the blocks of spins managed a decent pay, and altogether I've ended up with £16.70p of funds in my account, which on a week where I also turned a £100 deposit into £290 withdrawal is pretty good, and then there's still my Weekend Booster to come on Friday.

I zero-ed out my balance when I withdrew so that's all off my free spins.

The little perks like this at VS are still modestly decent IMO, albeit considerably shaved back from where they used to be with all the wheels and bonus offers and suchlike.

 

[mack341]

Specifically back on VS, my play last week generated 75 free spins from Clash Of Spins, at 10p/20p spins on a variety of slots, these usually generate a small amount in the region of £3-£5. Nothing to get too excited about in some regards but as wager-free funds in my account it's a reasonable little perk.

Anyway this week one of the blocks of spins managed a decent pay, and altogether I've ended up with £16.70p of funds in my account, which on a week where I also turned a £100 deposit into £290 withdrawal is pretty good, and then there's still my Weekend Booster to come on Friday.

I zero-ed out my balance when I withdrew so that's all off my free spins.

The little perks like this at VS are still modestly decent IMO, albeit considerably shaved back from where they used to be with all the wheels and bonus offers and suchlike.

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Without the straggle of 96% offerings, these perks would be pointless, you would've most likely lost the £100 in exchange for some 10p spins on a low rtp game.

That's the William Hill strategy, I'd like to know their figures now compared to say 6yrs back, when they had a lot of Microgaming slots on full fat.

Sometimes they now give out 10 free spins as a prize on that bonus drop promo, they're definitely feeling the effects of customer desertion imo.

Look at Aldi's success in the supermarket business, without them the other places would collectively have us over a barrel. Their greed created opportunity for another firm to get in there.

Perhaps AI can save the casinos some costs, and 96 rtp returns as the norm

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Had an evening on BTG's 'Castle of Terror', not one I've ever played before.

It's a pretty decent slot, I won a bit on it (£20) and had it running for hours so no complaints.

Don't bet on seeing the enhanced free spins though (needs the gold scatter on reel 6), out of 16 free spins rounds, all of them were normal.

Best hit of the session was actually in the basegame (see below), of 307x. I took the option to gamble 100x of that for the free spins round (guaranteed exchange at 100x), and collect the rest as a win. It paid off by increasing the total slightly to 330x.

Any wins that could be gambled for the feature I just collected, as the feature can pay pretty crappy so even if the gamble was won it could easily still turn out to be a net loss!

Getting to the 20x multiplier for the retrigger in the feature doesn't seem common either, I didn't manage it once, although it trolled me a couple of times by getting to 19x on the last free spin

4096 ways instead of Megaways, with nice clear graphics so it's a very easy slot to 'read', the holy water mechanic can frustrate because of the way loads of them land but only one or two (or none!) turn into an actual wild, but at least it sustains the sense of hope for a bit longer

Overall, one I'd have another crack at.

 

[dunover]

Had an evening on BTG's 'Castle of Terror', not one I've ever played before.

It's a pretty decent slot, I won a bit on it (£20) and had it running for hours so no complaints.

Don't bet on seeing the enhanced free spins though (needs the gold scatter on reel 6), out of 16 free spins rounds, all of them were normal.

Best hit of the session was actually in the basegame (see below), of 307x. I took the option to gamble 100x of that for the free spins round (guaranteed exchange at 100x), and collect the rest as a win. It paid off by increasing the total slightly to 330x.

Any wins that could be gambled for the feature I just collected, as the feature can pay pretty crappy so even if the gamble was won it could easily still turn out to be a net loss!

Getting to the 20x multiplier for the retrigger in the feature doesn't seem common either, I didn't manage it once, although it trolled me a couple of times by getting to 19x on the last free spin

4096 ways instead of Megaways, with nice clear graphics so it's a very easy slot to 'read', the holy water mechanic can frustrate because of the way loads of them land but only one or two (or none!) turn into an actual wild, but at least it sustains the sense of hope for a bit longer

Overall, one I'd have another crack at.

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Oh yeah, the one with Corbyn, Truss, Starmer and Rayner on the reels.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Jezza would sort it all out.