Complaints Section

[KasinoKing]

Newbies have to earn the right to post public complaints. It's a privilege ,and I would think that fully registered members and above would feel the same way.

We're still looking at solutions and always open for suggestions btw.

I can see both sides of the coin here, and do appreciate the problems that have arisen, but my main concern with the new rules is that I think they are too restrictive.
30 days membership and 100 posts... that's a long time & a lot of posts!

However I can see more problems if you made it just say 10 posts before a complaint can be made - cos then you'd get people making 10 posts of drivel just so they would qualify to complain properly...

Another obvious problem is complaints come in different degrees; some are out-right casino bashing, while others are more passive & minor. Moderation seems to be the only sensible solution; a human decision to allow the post to become public or not, but only if you have the resources to cover this. Then you'd have to look out for being accused of 'favoritism' to some casinos...
Hmmm... It's a right can of worms isn't it!

Maybe all the moderators could discuss this face-to-face in London next week...?
(I'm assuming you'll all be there for the trade events).

KK

 

[SteveCut]

maxd wrote:
So, how would that work?

* Newbie posts and the post gets dropped in the moderation queue.
* We see the post and then try to chase the OP down in order to determine that they have both contacted CS and the rep if there is one, but ...
* Emails fly back and forth for a while 'cause people don't answer right away, etc, and ...
* Half the time people use bogus emails or never answer or they've got spam filters that block us out ...
* tap tap tap, we're wasting a lot of time here and the post hasn\t even made it out of the queue yet!
* Ok fine, turns out the OP has contacted CS but not the rep ... they want to know who the rep is, we point them to the rep list ...

Well that sure sounds like a lot of work!
But I'm a little confused as to where the work actually is?

1. How do emails fly back and forth if the OP doesn't answer?
2. If the OP doesn't answer then no further action is needed.
3. If they use a bogus email then no further action is needed.
4. If they lose our email in their spam then no further action is needed other than to re-send our original email if requested.
5. The information about the rep could be put in our original email.

So in almost every case we need to send one email, and in rare cases re-send it. That email could also be automated.

Surely that's less work than the moderators are doing now, after the event?

Am I making my point yet? It doesn't work!

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but, to be frank; no, I still can't see your point or why it couldn't work.

Too much time is blown hand-holding and baby sitting for folks that are simply too damn lazy to read a little and follow some basic procedures.

The bottom line is that folks that are willing to read the rules and spend 5 minutes absorbing them are going to head to the PAB section, as instructed, and get their show on the road ... if it needs to go that way.

Most newcomers to this forum would not understand that such importance is attached to following the rules here. How many people, unless their money will be at risk, actually read all the terms & conditions of everything they register for. I sure as hell don't. I just the click the checkbox like almost everyone else does. That's how people are, and that's not going to change whether you have pedantic rules or accuse them of being lazy. Is it too much to ask to send them one automated email or PM?

Also, most people in the world do not have English as a first language. Maybe it's not so simple for them? I've even read senior members here arguing with them over English grammatical semantics! Johaidii!

I enjoy this forum, but I'm not keen on the authoritarian ambience here. Sometimes it feels to me as if many genuine PAB'ers and complainers, (unless intelligent, organised, non-lazy native English speakers - and even sometimes then!) are treated as bloody nuisances or probable fraudsters rather than the lifeblood of the CM forum.

Yes, it's more work - that's tough, but unfortunately imperfect people also have grievances. Are we here to help them or obstruct them?

 

[Casinomeister]

I can see both sides of the coin here, and do appreciate the problems that have arisen, but my main concern with the new rules is that I think they are too restrictive.
30 days membership and 100 posts... that's a long time & a lot of posts!

However I can see more problems if you made it just say 10 posts before a complaint can be made - cos then you'd get people making 10 posts of drivel just so they would qualify to complain properly...

Another obvious problem is complaints come in different degrees; some are out-right casino bashing, while others are more passive & minor. Moderation seems to be the only sensible solution; a human decision to allow the post to become public or not, but only if you have the resources to cover this. Then you'd have to look out for being accused of 'favoritism' to some casinos...
Hmmm... It's a right can of worms isn't it!

Maybe all the moderators could discuss this face-to-face in London next week...?
(I'm assuming you'll all be there for the trade events).

KK

Sure I could set up a "newbie" usergroup which is less stringent. Or better yet, I could set up a "whiners club" which you opt in. This would give you access to the complaints section before your newbie-ness transpires. By opting in, any violation of the rules while complaining would boot you from the group. Thus you can't post in the complaints section until your time comes.

That might work.

 

[maxd]

@SteveCut: Are you trying to be a PITA or is it just working out that way?

I'm not keen on the authoritarian ambience here ...

We're trying to clean the trolls, fraudsters and lamers out of the Complaints forums and that equates to "authoritarianism"? Wow, that's a pretty heroic stretch there Mr. Steve. I could reiterate the point about posting in Complaints or and other forum being a privilege and all that -- hence it not being an "authoritarian" issue by any flight of the imagination -- but I get the distinct feeling that you're not listening.

But I'm a little confused as to where the work actually is? ... So in almost every case we need to send one email, and in rare cases re-send it. That email could also be automated.

It may be that you have a gift for organization that I can only marvel at, but I doubt it. I think it's much more likely that you are making guess-timates about something you know nothing about. No offense but your conclusions are worth exactly the effort you've put into them.

When you start moderating posts for compliance to the Complaints rules and procedures you are basically dealing with a somewhat less formal PAB situation. I know from the personal experience of organizing and managing the PAB handling process this past year that that effort adds up to several hours per day. You don't believe me, or think you know better? Based on what, exactly? How is it that you personally have this special insight into these processes?

My guess is that you don't, so let me ball-park it for you. 5-10 newbie Complaints posts per day (that's a bit high) X 10-ish minutes per post including emails and follow-up work (that's a bit low) works out to at least 1 or 2 hours extra effort every day, so 5-10 hours per week, minimum. Assuming that I need to take that time out of the PAB processing that's about 2 or 3 fewer PABs processed per week, minimum, or approx 1/3 fewer PABs per month. And then you say ...

Yes, it's more work - that's tough, but unfortunately imperfect people also have grievances. Are we here to help them or obstruct them?

I think you have your answer: I can police the crap that unrestricted posting invites in Complaints or I can process about 10-12 PABs per month. Are you going to be our "that's tough" liaison to those people who would've been able to PAB but now we have to say "no, sorry, no can do" to? Somehow I think not.

I suggest you look for a better solution to this problem than telling me I'm full of BS. There are only so many people on staff here and so many hours in the day: we have to allocate those resources as best we can. Your so-called "authoritarian" decisions are based on a lot more thought, effort and desire to help people with real issues than you give us credit for.

 

[Casinomeister]

Most newcomers to this forum would not understand that such importance is attached to following the rules here. How many people, unless their money will be at risk, actually read all the terms & conditions of everything they register for. I sure as hell don't. I just the click the checkbox like almost everyone else does. That's how people are, and that's not going to change whether you have pedantic rules or accuse them of being lazy. Is it too much to ask to send them one automated email or PM?

They are PMd when they join with full instructions on how to file and post complaints.

There is no authoritarian ambiance here. We are merely keeping things organized. These are not pedantic rules - these are forum rules.

We have rules not to post spam, rules against flaming, rules against cross-posting and derailing threads. This is the same thing. There are guidelines and you need to follow them. Newbies don't do it the majority of the time, so they are disallowed the privilege to post complaints. Simple as that.

Sheesh! You act like we've told everyone "no more complaining"

 

[spearmaster]

May I make an additional small point?

This is a FREE service. This is not a PAID service.

Unfortunately, FREE services cost about the same as PAID services to operate.

Are you intimating that you would prefer to pay membership dues, SteveCut? Or do you think it is reasonable to place restrictions on the worst group of abusers (yes, you read that right, abusers), in exchange for regular, longstanding members continuing to have access to a FREE service?

CM and Max have both made it clear how much work is involved in handling complaints - they are not the least bit interested in providing poor service because they are bogged down with lots of complaints, many of which turn out to be frivolous or fraudulent. They would rather provide a quality service which meets the needs of the membership.

The other mods (Simmo and I) just do our best to try and keep things flowing smoothly so that CM and Max can focus on the more important things - and needless to say this causes us to have to give up some of our own time, completely free of charge, when we really should be focusing on our own jobs and sites.

I do believe this discussion should be curtailed, unless the membership at large are willing to sacrifice something else in exchange for the reinstatement of the ability of newbies to post complaints.

Something has to give somewhere. Suggestions are most welcome - but please do not assume that we are all Vortrans and that additional work does not cause any increased disruption to our lives.

 

[RobWin]

Here's a thought, what about setting up an area sort of like the "America The Beautiful" thread where it is a private area and can not get out into the google search engines. This could be set up with the intention that:

1. Only new members that join Casinomeister to lodge a complaint against a casino are the only one's that could start a thread in there.

2. Each thread has an automatic poll that is posted in that thread when the new member starts the thread.

3. Only Senior Members here or (maybe those that have been members for three or more years) are the only ones that can vote on that particular threads merits on whether it go's on and gets escalated to Max to look into further.

4. The poll is automatically closed after one week of debate in that particular thread and after the senior members have put the newbie poster through the ringer so to speak and the voting has run it's course and completed.

Just a thought that something along this line might just work and at least the senior members that are allowed in there can rationalize the newbie posters case and validity of it.

 

[Casinomeister]

Here's a thought, what about setting up an area sort of like the "America The Beautiful" thread where it is a private area and can not get out into the google search engines. This could be set up with the intention that:

1. Only new members that join Casinomeister to lodge a complaint against a casino are the only one's that could start a thread in there.

2. Each thread has an automatic poll that is posted in that thread when the new member starts the thread.

3. Only Senior Members here or (maybe those that have been members for three or more years) are the only ones that can vote on that particular threads merits on whether it go's on and gets escalated to Max to look into further.

4. The poll is automatically closed after one week of debate in that particular thread and after the senior members have put the newbie poster through the ringer so to speak and the voting has run it's course and completed.

Just a thought that something along this line might just work and at least the senior members that are allowed in there can rationalize the newbie posters case and validity of it.

Ehhh...too much work.

I'm leaning toward a special user group that people can sign up to

 

[SteveCut]

Maxd wrote:
@SteveCut: Are you trying to be a PITA or is it just working out that way? We're trying to clean the trolls, fraudsters and lamers out of the Complaints forums and that equates to "authoritarianism"? Wow, that's a pretty heroic stretch there Mr. Steve. I could reiterate the point about posting in Complaints or and other forum being a privilege and all that -- hence it not being an "authoritarian" issue by any flight of the imagination -- but I get the distinct feeling that you're not listening.

But I never said that this work equates to authoritarianism - you just wrote that and presented it as my viewpoint. It is not. I simply stated that I was not keen on the authoritarian ambience here. (Opinions about ambience can be only subjective therefore I'm fully aware that others may or may not share my feelings. I simply stated what I genuinely feel.)
Maybe it wasn't clear from what I wrote but basically my gripe is not about what you do, but more about attitudes. What kind of attitudes? Well, I have seen posts from moderators on here that I would describe as over-aggressive, insulting, patronising and gloating, to name a few. This is what creates this authoritarian ambience for me.

It may be that you have a gift for organization that I can only marvel at, but I doubt it. I think it's much more likely that you are making guess-timates about something you know nothing about. No offense but your conclusions are worth exactly the effort you've put into them.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about sarcastic and demeaning.
You are quite right about my non-gifts, which is why my analysis was based solely on the procedures which you outlined. As you infer, I am in no position to comment on the efficacy of the procedures themselves. Is there a problem with them?

I suggest you look for a better solution to this problem than telling me I'm full of BS.

Again, I never said that you are full of BS.
I have actually been actively proposing solutions to this problem. Of course I don't know all the ins and outs, so what I suggest may be completely unworkable. I'm just trying to throw some suggestions into the mix.

 

[spearmaster]

Well, I have seen posts from moderators on here that I would describe as over-aggressive, insulting, patronising and gloating, to name a few. This is what creates this authoritarian ambience for me.

Pray tell. As I mentioned in my post above, we are not all Vortrans. We do have emotions as well - and if you haven't noticed, any sign of emotion from us is usually preceded by some form of over-aggressive, insulting, patronising or gloating remark by a member.

Cut to the chase. Access and membership to Casinomeister is free. There should be no preconceived expectations of members or moderators, other than the simple rules for posting in the forums.

As such, moderators and admins here try to help where they can, when they can, when the request is not frivolous or fraudulent. Where necessary, we may make requests of members which are not deemed to be applicable to all members because of special circumstances. We may refuse requests on occasion although in practice this is uncommon.

Members shall then not place unreasonable expectations on the admins and moderators as there is no such contract to deliver an agreed-upon level of service.

Admins and moderators thus have a reasonable right to respond to any post which is either inaccurate or unfair - this is the same right granted to any member of the board. You cannot expect admins and moderators to bind themselves to a different or higher standard, even though typically we don't usually stoop down to obviously baited messages.

You wanna make some suggestions? Always welcome. Just don't get into issues where you guess how "easy" it is for us to do something, because keeping this board free of junk, spam, other frivolous posts takes up a significant amount of time. And thanks to a number of our members who report posts, our job is manageable.

Perhaps if we just left everything alone for a week, you'd begin to get the idea. But I don't really think that's a good idea to subject the other members to having to wade through all that crap, so I don't think we're about to start this experiment.

If you don't believe it - wait until next week, when all of us will be busy meeting with operators, players and affs in London, and will have less time to devote to the board... I'm sure you will notice a marked difference, but at least the members will know in advance that we are trying our best to bring them better deals, evaluate various operations, and getting to know the needs and wants of players and affs.

So I don't mind saying that I'll thank you to exercise a bit more patience and understanding. If you're in London next week, feel free to come and meet with any or all of us, we'll be happy to explain and chat over a beer or two.

This invitation, of course, is extended to any member - a number of you we already know we'll see, many of you we've already met before as well.

 

[kmay87]

I think suggestions on this are hard to both formulate and put into practice, as there seem to be many suggestions that have further complications that haven't been considered.

But, going slightly off-topic, I think this was without doubt a good move, and in the long run these problems will be ironed out. I'm a member at a (without trying to promote it) well known motorists' justice forum, and when I last looked, there were around 25,000 members. I know little about the site so I can't comment on any similar issues it may have had, but a typical scenario is thus:-

Someone registers an account; posts his/her problem without searching through past posts to see if the same thing has already been discussed; senior members reply with a typically canned answer - because the problem has been discussed so many times, the options are the same; member disappears.

Out of those members, I would doubt if more than 100 of them are active on a constant basis.

I know CM had a clear out not so long ago, but if the complaints thread was left open, I could see this being more and more frequent. Fair enough, half of them were probably bogus claims, but a forum that has been running for so long I'm sure would much prefer users to participate rather than simply getting what they want and then leaving.

But, effectively closing the complaints forum hasn't achieved very much. Personally, I haven't seen much of the spamming that was predicted, there's been a few comments about 'why can't I post my complaint?' but for the majority, they are just posting their complaint in another part of the forum. And this is just generating more work for the mods.

As I see it, there are three main problems with the current setup:

• One
  A player has a complaint. Joins the forum, hoping to discuss with established players on what to do. But he needs 100 posts and has to be registered for a minimum of thirty days. Either way, it's going to take at least a month before he can post about it. He decides to get the 100 posts out of the way so proceeds to add 'thanks' or 'that's interesting' or other such comments to every thread. And then proceeds to get banned for being a troll. Or, he posts his complaint in the wrong thread, it then proceeds to get moved into the correct thread, which he cannot be a part of.
• Two
  The player decides to adhere as best possible to the rules, and does not attempt to spam every post to get the required 100. He may get 5 or so posts in the welcome section, but getting the other 95 is dependent on their being enough material for him to comment on in a useful manner. Therefore, other members give him rep points so he just has to wait the 30 days. Defeats the object really, but you can see why it's taking place.
• Three
  Chances are, the issue may have been continuing for a prolonged period, before the player found the forum or decided to post about it. It's normal human behaviour to want something done instantly, so rather than other members possibly figuring out who is in the wrong, the player decides to PAB. Not understanding the process, he then posts on the forum stating he completed the PAB form on Friday night, it's now Monday morning and he still hasn't heard anything. If a casino was refusing to pay me, at the very least I'd want to talk to others about it, rather than just waiting and waiting for the reps to get back to Max.

To cover all options here, it's quite possible that one of the first posts a new member makes is that useful, he gets thanked and/or nominated. Such as in the case of Markus.

Although the PAB process is one of the biggest selling points of the site, perhaps this could be partially closed off, and the complaints section reopened. It might seem like, to CM, holding his hands up, admitting 'I made a mistake' but it would give the opportunity for members to rip apart a complaint, either suggesting it to be a fake or a general complaint to which the PAB process is required. Likewise, casino reps would have the chance to respond once more, given that, as Max said, few members bother to contact the rep before posting.

It's seeming as though to many people, the PAB is viewed as a God-given right, and when something goes wrong, whether it be an actual complaint, or just a bitch and moan because something hasn't gone the way they wanted it, people think 'Give it to Max, he will sort it out.'

I've PAB'd twice, and both times the results were beyond what I would have been able to achieve without the help of this site. Surely there must be a concern somewhere that if players continue to abuse the system, Max might decide that his time is of better use elsewhere. I think I can say with certainty that noone wants that.

 

[Stovetopp]

Quite Frankly, I can't see where there is a problem here.
A new member signs up and join the discussions and participate and learn from old members!
What I strenously object to are those folks who signs up and starts bitching immediately especially when they involve a casino that is clearly defined as ROGUE
I am surprised CM doesn't answer eh eh I told you so!! I would , were I a moderator .
This is not a paid service and CM does not demand a percentage of funds recovered..He doesn't sell products to cover some of the costs here .
I have bought stuff from Bob Dancer, Skip Hughes and that other sites which sells Poker CD'S forgot name but was avid reader of his site until he devoted it solely to Poker now.
I love this site , THE POSTS AND ALL THE INTERESTING DREAMERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.Most important , knowing that as long as I play at an accredited casino, should things go wrong. I am confident it will be thoroughly investigated.......No my eyes are not brown LOL

 

[chuchu59]

Pray tell. As I mentioned in my post above, we are not all Vortrans. We do have emotions as well - and if you haven't noticed, any sign of emotion from us is usually preceded by some form of over-aggressive, insulting, patronising or gloating remark by a member.

Cut to the chase. Access and membership to Casinomeister is free. There should be no preconceived expectations of members or moderators, other than the simple rules for posting in the forums.

As such, moderators and admins here try to help where they can, when they can, when the request is not frivolous or fraudulent. Where necessary, we may make requests of members which are not deemed to be applicable to all members because of special circumstances. We may refuse requests on occasion although in practice this is uncommon.

Members shall then not place unreasonable expectations on the admins and moderators as there is no such contract to deliver an agreed-upon level of service.

Admins and moderators thus have a reasonable right to respond to any post which is either inaccurate or unfair - this is the same right granted to any member of the board. You cannot expect admins and moderators to bind themselves to a different or higher standard, even though typically we don't usually stoop down to obviously baited messages.

You wanna make some suggestions? Always welcome. Just don't get into issues where you guess how "easy" it is for us to do something, because keeping this board free of junk, spam, other frivolous posts takes up a significant amount of time. And thanks to a number of our members who report posts, our job is manageable.

Perhaps if we just left everything alone for a week, you'd begin to get the idea. But I don't really think that's a good idea to subject the other members to having to wade through all that crap, so I don't think we're about to start this experiment.

If you don't believe it - wait until next week, when all of us will be busy meeting with operators, players and affs in London, and will have less time to devote to the board... I'm sure you will notice a marked difference, but at least the members will know in advance that we are trying our best to bring them better deals, evaluate various operations, and getting to know the needs and wants of players and affs.

So I don't mind saying that I'll thank you to exercise a bit more patience and understanding. If you're in London next week, feel free to come and meet with any or all of us, we'll be happy to explain and chat over a beer or two.

This invitation, of course, is extended to any member - a number of you we already know we'll see, many of you we've already met before as well.

Spear,

It's an unfair world. When players/members post their views or complaints some disregard all ethics and have a hostile attitude towards those that disagree with them. When moderators show a bit of impatience or aggressiveness they are crucified. Nevertheless, the mods act on behalf of the forum's owner so it is vital that they are seen to act/react calmly. In this respect, I would suggest that when confronted with unreasonable requests or poor attitudes from poster, any replies should be made less hastily (after a day or two) so that the mods can act with a clearer mind and answer with a better choice of words.

The present situation is a deadlock. I have a suggestion where all could care to comment on. As older members of this forum some of us could help out. How about having a system where newbies could be associated with older forum members who could act as mentors. If they have complaints that they want posted they send a pm to the associated member who gives him advice eg pming the casino rep. If this still doesnt work and he still wishes to make a complaint, the member helps him to post it in the complaints sectio ie on the newbie's behalf although this will be toned down if worded too harshly.

Just a thought.

 

[RobWin]

Spear,

It's an unfair world. When players/members post their views or complaints some disregard all ethics and have a hostile attitude towards those that disagree with them. When moderators show a bit of impatience or aggressiveness they are crucified. Nevertheless, the mods act on behalf of the forum's owner so it is vital that they are seen to act/react calmly. In this respect, I would suggest that when confronted with unreasonable requests or poor attitudes from poster, any replies should be made less hastily (after a day or two) so that the mods can act with a clearer mind and answer with a better choice of words.

The present situation is a deadlock. I have a suggestion where all could care to comment on. As older members of this forum some of us could help out. How about having a system where newbies could be associated with older forum members who could act as mentors. If they have complaints that they want posted they send a pm to the associated member who gives him advice eg pming the casino rep. If this still doesnt work and he still wishes to make a complaint, the member helps him to post it in the complaints sectio ie on the newbie's behalf although this will be toned down if worded too harshly.

Just a thought.

That's a good thought there Chu and I believe we are on the same thought patterns here as your idea and my idea in Post #32 above are very similar in their semantics and the end result that could be achieved by implementing something similar to our ideas here.

 

[spearmaster]

It's an unfair world. When players/members post their views or complaints some disregard all ethics and have a hostile attitude towards those that disagree with them. When moderators show a bit of impatience or aggressiveness they are crucified. Nevertheless, the mods act on behalf of the forum's owner so it is vital that they are seen to act/react calmly. In this respect, I would suggest that when confronted with unreasonable requests or poor attitudes from poster, any replies should be made less hastily (after a day or two) so that the mods can act with a clearer mind and answer with a better choice of words.

I do agree with you - and we try our best. However, I contend that it is still unfair to require us to adhere to a higher standard, meaning that we cannot express a little emotion.

However, as you see, sometimes things begin to spiral out of control - and waiting a day or two will not solve the problem. Admin and moderators need to be able to act accordingly in order to keep things moving smoothly - the only real difference between a moderator and a member is that the moderator has additional permission to take a few actions in order to keep the discussion moving along, besides helping to keep the forums clear of junk.

Let me put it another way. I don't get paid for this. Doesn't it make sense that I should just say the heck with it and go back to being an ordinary member? Why should I set myself up to take flak from the members? Why must I subject myself to a higher standard?

I'm here to help because Bryan is my great buddy and because I think I can make a contribution to the community at large. I'm certainly not here to be a target.

The only requirement I have for this is to ask that members don't treat us like robots and don't make our work too excessive. I do not think that is a particularly big requirement.

This means I am not going to bottle my emotions, nor am I going to act as if nothing is going on. I am subject to the same punishments for breaking the rules - and I do not intend to use any additional abilities I have to stifle those who don't agree with me, unless they have breached the rules.

So while I agree with you in sentiment, I can't totally agree with that in application.

The present situation is a deadlock. I have a suggestion where all could care to comment on. As older members of this forum some of us could help out. How about having a system where newbies could be associated with older forum members who could act as mentors. If they have complaints that they want posted they send a pm to the associated member who gives him advice eg pming the casino rep. If this still doesnt work and he still wishes to make a complaint, the member helps him to post it in the complaints section ie on the newbie's behalf although this will be toned down if worded too harshly.

A noble suggestion indeed - but let's look at the obstacles here:

1. Such a system depends on the mentor being available on a frequent basis - let's say daily, for example. This, in essence, places a burden on the mentor which he/she may become tired of - to the point where he/she requests to be relieved of an obligation, but may also decide that they're tired of the situation in general and leave the board entirely.

2. Amongst those who volunteer to be mentors, CM and Max, possibly Simmo and I, have to make a decision about who is suitable to fill these roles. If at some point we encounter a situation where a person who has stepped forward is not suitable, how do we handle that?

3. Mentors would have to have some sort of standard for taking on newbies - who would develop that standard? Would this standard be more rigid than being an ordinary member? What happens if a mentor subsequently does not maintain this standard?

There's more than that but this will do for a start - I do like your suggestion but to be perfectly honest I see something like this as problematic. I don't know how the admin and other mods feel about this either, but if you can show us a way to make this work without putting a major burden on other people, I'm sure willing to listen.

 

[catrina m]

I'm here to help because Bryan is my great buddy and because I think I can make a contribution to the community at large. I'm certainly not here to be a target.

Thank You.

 

[susanjbo]

What about threads already started???

Maybe the new rules are required, but how about giving us the right of reply to threads that actually belong to us. I have a couple posts which I now cannot respond too.

Little silly I think.

I dont reply too many threads, but I do read and wish to be informed about current events. Just because I dont talk much (reply) does not mean I am not active.

I also believe that right of reply for any member is mandatory. How else are current and established members going to be informed about new issues? Are we saying that just because we have been a member here for a certain period we are immune to new issues, are we saying that we have heard it all? That states an arrogance of some member and maybe some staff.

Open and frank discussions are now restricted to those who believe that just because they have applied themselves to this site and responded to forums over an extended period most likely due to the fact that they started playing online casinos at an earlier stage. I say to those members to please consider others and remember that when they first signed up here they did not have current restrictions and Im sure had their personal grievances with casinos heard and posted before it was too late.

 

[kmay87]

But that would defeat the object.

New members would post their complaint anywhere, it would get moved, and then they have access to post in the complaints forum. If that was to happen, there was no point in making the changes in the first place.

You've already been here for a long time, so it's only a matter of making a few useful posts and then you'll have access. I'm sure there's plenty of members on here who prefer to lurk than post, but the key to a successful forum is where there are a number of active posters, instead of just a handful.

 

[maxd]

Susan, you may see that I've thanked your post. That's not because I necessarily agree with your issue there but to demonstrate one of the benefits of posting here: people will appreciate your contribution, thank you, and your reputation will jump up accordingly.

A few of those and you'll be free to post wherever you like.

 

[Casinomeister]

Members who were the original poster of a thread that was begun before the new rule was implemented - and their issue has not been resolved yet - only need to PM me so I can give you posting privileges. It's as simple as that.

 

[maxd]

Open and frank discussions are now restricted ....

Do you realize that the restricted posting only applies in the Complaints forums? "Open and frank discussions" happen all over this site, not just in Complaints.

My point is that it's not like you've been kicked to the curb or anything like that, it's just that until you've earned your stripes here you can't contribute to a particular section of the site. That isn't much different than just about any club, group or organization that I can think of: contributing members get wider access, no biggie.

 

[susanjbo]

Casinomeister has filled me in stating that i can respond to my initial threads which is some comfort.:notworthy

 

[maxd]

If I'm not mistaken you have now surpassed the requirements for posting in Complaints, in particular your Reputation is 50+. Welcome and enjoy!

 

[susanjbo]

wooohoo, watch out people im going to get you all now... lol

 

[KasinoKing]

Due to the fact that most new members either don't bother reading the posting rules for the complaints section, or abide by them, the Complaints Section is now closed to newbie members. You have to be a "Fully Registered" member in order to post there. Newbies can still PAB and contact casino reps, but due to the growing number of members who disregard the importance of maintaining a sense of order and community - they can no longer post there.

Fully Registered: Once a member has either 50 reputation points or 100 posts and has been registered for at least 30 days, the membership becomes "Fully Registered". These members have full usage of the public areas and can include URLs in their signature.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

How about posting these rules in a 'sticky' at the top of each complaints section?
Quite a few members have been asking recently, and the rules aren't clearly displayed anywhere as far as I can see.

PS: I still don't agree with these rules...