Feedback Casinomeister's open door policy

[dionysus]

But hey, despite twice..TWICE Bryan asking to pm these beefs, *flourishes hands* gotta get that last dig in, eh

 

[ternur]

Here's a common theme.

A thread gets a little lively, nothing serious, just a bit off topic or disagreements go slightly over the top, but nothing too bad, and in the past they would have run their course and everyone be friends again the next day.

Now what happens is Dion jumps in for the slightest thing, tags Max for some reason, then Max goes on the thread, warns or bans everyone, and no matter how many people disagree with what he says, he is right, everyone else is wrong, and if others don't like it, they are free to stop posting. Guess thats whats happened.

I agree with the first part there Colin, but strongly disagree with last part.

I seriously can't understand what some people have against Dion? Could someone explain this to me please?

In my opinion, Dion does a great job in this forum and his work as a part of the CM team should be appreciated.

 

[Kenji85]

@Casinomeister @dionysus

It's ok guys lock it up.

I found the remote and am no longer watching keeping up with the Kardashians

 

[Davey86]

I haven’t had any interactions with the mods or staff to be fair I joke on about being the authority lol but sometimes a mod is probably damed if they do or damed if they don’t

 

[dionysus]

@Casinomeister @dionysus

It's ok guys lock it up.

I found the remote and am no longer watching keeping up with the Kardashians

436th season isnt it?

 

[colinsunderland]

and like often is the case, hadnt said a single word til someone decided reference me in
eesh
it's a no win innit?

Lock a thread admin and casino staff are happy I did, 5 (same) people bitch - I lose
Dont lock it? Why arent you doing your job Dio, arent you the mod here? - lose
Moderate something?
Lose
Dont say a word? Well, look, nothing from Dio obv not a mod
lose

I could scatter $50 bills around the room, the same 5 would complain it wasnt 100s

And I don't see why people fail to see every action I do or dont take isnt run up the chain. Because, well....shocker..they are...right up to the top

Being a mod isn't a popularity contest.
If someone is breaking the forum rules moderate. If they aren't, don't. It's really that simple. Failing to do anything except tag Max makes it look like you are weak.
You have this reputation of jumping on the slightest transgression, have you ever wondered why other mods aren't doing the same? Maybe you are over moderating (well without actually moderating).

If you jump on every slight breach of the rules, people will stop posting. You should chill a little and just let things go a bit, 9/10 arguments resolve themselves, or people use the ignore button. Obviously take action if things are going too far though.

But hey, despite twice..TWICE Bryan asking to pm these beefs, *flourishes hands* gotta get that last dig in, eh

And thats exactly what I mean. I can read thanks. I don't see the problem in stating what I think in public, I tend not to go behind people's backs to say what I think. You, of course, have taken my post personally, when I was pointing out what is happening, and what I know for a fact is putting some people off posting. I don't have anything against you personally, I don't know you, I've never met you, I'm unlikely to ever meet you, so it isn't a personal attack, its just my observations on the subject of the thread.

 

[dionysus]

I haven’t had any interactions with the mods or staff to be fair I joke on about being the authority lol but sometimes a mod is probably damed if they do or damed if they don’t

Fair assessment
Lincoln probably (re) said it best

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't …” ... please all the people all of the time” (Poet John Lydgate as made famous by Abraham Lincoln

 

[Davey86]

I still think some people should fill in this form before posting @Casinomeister should write it into the rules aswell

 

[dunover]

Here's a common theme.

A thread gets a little lively, nothing serious, just a bit off topic or disagreements go slightly over the top, but nothing too bad, and in the past they would have run their course and everyone be friends again the next day.

Now what happens is Dion jumps in for the slightest thing, tags Max for some reason, then Max goes on the thread, warns or bans everyone, and no matter how many people disagree with what he says, he is right, everyone else is wrong, and if others don't like it, they are free to stop posting. Guess thats whats happened.

Actually, your first paragraph here is often what occurs. Reports are made, the thread is examined and if it's established members arguing on a six-of-one half a dozen of the other basis which has subsequently petered out or been left down the list of posts when the thread gets back on topic, no action is taken, it's disregarded.

That's not us being lazy, but simply minimizing the need for moderator involvement. A forum needs moderation, but it shouldn't be to the extent every other thread has some kind of warning or intervention as that makes the whole place look tetchy and messy. And it's a sure sign something is amiss.

As for the second paragraph, any mod will only jump in in response to reports usually. Nearly all intervention is on behalf of a member who has made what is deemed to be a valid complaint in their report.

As for Dion referring some matters up the ladder, I have done the same before. Yeah, I can ban spammers, trolls and shills myself but when it comes to any consideration of sanction against experienced and established regular posters, the input of the top brass is required for two reasons: firstly, to ensure a fair consensus of at least another staff member which prevents arbitrary and potentially unfair or biased actions from an individual this side, secondly it's respectful of the member in question that they get some time spent this side having the matter properly discussed and examined higher up the chain.

 

[Mouche12]

No problems here for me well except my life, just not posting as much as the interest level has gone down and not much to talk about really, but I just feel not interested in anything at the moment.

Keep your chin up buddy, I know how you're feeling. Take care.

 

[colinsunderland]

Actually, your first paragraph here is often what occurs. Reports are made, the thread is examined and if it's established members arguing on a six-of-one half a dozen of the other basis which has subsequently petered out or been left down the list of posts when the thread gets back on topic, no action is taken, it's disregarded.

That's not us being lazy, but simply minimizing the need for moderator involvement. A forum needs moderation, but it shouldn't be to the extent every other thread has some kind of warning or intervention as that makes the whole place look tetchy and messy. And it's a sure sign something is amiss.

I completely agree with all that, but that's exactly my point, that's how it should work (in my view anyway), but it isn't.

As for the second paragraph, any mod will only jump in in response to reports usually. Nearly all intervention is on behalf of a member who has made what is deemed to be a valid complaint in their report.

As for Dion referring some matters up the ladder, I have done the same before. Yeah, I can ban spammers, trolls and shills myself but when it comes to any consideration of sanction against experienced and established regular posters, the input of the top brass is required for two reasons: firstly, to ensure a fair consensus of at least another staff member which prevents arbitrary and potentially unfair or biased actions from an individual this side, secondly it's respectful of the member in question that they get some time spent this side having the matter properly discussed and examined higher up the chain.

Again, I don't disagree, but that doesn't happen, the smallest of things are passed onto Max, especially with certain members, and Max has made his dislike of certain members very clear, so they are never going to get an unbiased response from him.

 

[slotmaster]

Keep your chin up buddy, I know how you're feeling. Take care.

Dankjewel (did I get that right?)

 

[Mouche12]

Yes, perfectly right!

 

[Playford7]

I completely agree with all that, but that's exactly my point, that's how it should work (in my view anyway), but it isn't.



Again, I don't disagree, but that doesn't happen, the smallest of things are passed onto Max, especially with certain members, and Max has made his dislike of certain members very clear, so they are never going to get an unbiased response from him.

As you all know as it’s public, me and max didn’t exactly see eye to eye.

Max was openly biased towards me and admitted as much on many a thread for all to see regarding his thoughts about me as a person

As a member that made me feel really low, never mind as a person (and I’m no soft touch by a country mile)

But since my last ban i did reach out to max and we spoke, he was fair and balanced in our dialogue that I can’t deny.

I explained why I said certain things I did and also tried to explain why I lean a certain way regarding my opinions.

we have now no issues regarding each other as I’m sure @maxd would attest to.

what I’m trying to say here folks is if even I can manage to speak to people properly in a polite and adult manner to save my membership and try to heal and solve past issues then I’m pretty sure any of you can..

again I’m not defending or glossing over my treatment from some, nor am I ignoring unfair behaviour and actions towards others.

what I’m saying is that almost anything, past issues or disagreements will be listened to fairly if your prepared to discuss them properly

many of you might call me a sell out or whatever, that’s not the case.

I liked the people here so made a effort to stick around, no more no less.

Ben

 

[geordiecolin]

I am up early for work ( and without a hangover because I did not drink last night)
For anyone thinking that my claim against Pinnit was delusional and unjust about his/her "no twats" comment being " just towards a long gone banned member"-in his/her words- and a one off read this from their previous giveaway then tell me I am just making things up. It is not in the spirit of that thread.

The Remarkable CM Community Thread

And I get an infraction yet again for being honest/upsetting fellow members!

As a member for over 5 years I would love to see this forum go back to what it once was and what made me love being part of being here. The flaming and baiting of members in some threads is deplorable and only panders to a certain few who dominate here.
I have said a number of times that what is needed is for a mod to ensure that members address the post rather than the poster. The reason that I and others get into trouble is that that does not happen here and no Mod- and I have learned that Dion is not actually a mod- never ensures that happens.
Bryan you never look at threads such as the NK thread despite it being pointed out to you. The address the post rather than the poster rule is needed in that thread as much as any.
If you want this forum to get back to what it was then it needs policing without it being policed with the bias shown by a curtain person and using the address the post not the poster policy.
It really is as simple as that.

 

[mack341]

I would like to see a bit more moderation to insure civility, casual aspersions and baiting is becoming more common, probably not 'report worthy' on an individual basis for the person on the receiving end, but it's very often part of a series or pattern of posts, which will carry on until one straw breaks the camel's back.

I feel like I'm having to retaliate in kind now, as otherwise there are no obvious repercussions for this repeated incivility, it's almost a situation of some members having a mindset of 'if you post an opinion I don't like I'm going to try to attack you personally, to demean you'

In that environment, after a while, I wouldn't be surprised to see members post less or not at all.

[I'm sure the stress of 2020 and covid is also playing a part this year]

 

[JGslots]

I hope everyone manages to set their differences aside, there’s some genuinely brilliant people on here and it’s a pleasure to read the advice, experiences and opinions of all things Casino related.

Life is too short, can’t we just get back to bitching about the UKGC?

Rob

 

[paul7388]

I would like to see a bit more moderation to insure civility, casual aspersions and baiting is becoming more common, probably not 'report worthy' on an individual basis for the person on the receiving end, but it's very often part of a series or pattern of posts, which will carry on until one straw breaks the camel's back.

I feel like I'm having to retaliate in kind now, as otherwise there are no obvious repercussions for this repeated incivility, it's almost a situation of some members having a mindset of 'if you post an opinion I don't like I'm going to try to attack you personally, to demean you'

In that environment, after a while, I wouldn't be surprised to see members post less or not at all.

[I'm sure the stress of 2020 and covid is also playing a part this year]

You have the patience of a saint Mack.

You may have different ideas and opinions on subjects than some others. And maybe you are right or wrong in your research on subjects and what you wish to either believe or seek whether any truth or not in.

But i sit watching you type messages and see the way some reply to you. Maybe they do not mean to be offensive but they come across that way. I think why does he bother trying to post in these threads when those replying always have to be correct and try to make you out to be an idiot or something.

I have had disagreements with you in the past. I might have came across as way out of line but at the time i was saying how i felt about the matter.

But difference was i explained exactly why i had my opinion. Never once tried to belittle you for your views. Might have got slightly heated but that happens at times when people do not understand the others opinions.

Hey think i was on your ignore list . But instead of trying to drum it into you that you are totally wrong like some do i just stay away from topics like religion and respectwhat you believe.

Like i say i really do not know why you bother . I would just leave them to believe they are right and know everything and post in other threads. Got to be better than posting what for you is valid questions and have the same few try to ridicule you.

 

[Gaz237]

You have the patience of a saint Mack.

You may have different ideas and opinions on subjects than some others. And maybe you are right or wrong in your research on subjects and what you wish to either believe or seek whether any truth or not in.

But i sit watching you type messages and see the way some reply to you. Maybe they do not mean to be offensive but they come across that way. I think why does he bother trying to post in these threads when those replying always have to be correct and try to make you out to be an idiot or something.

I have had disagreements with you in the past. I might have came across as way out of line but at the time i was saying how i felt about the matter.

But difference was i explained exactly why i had my opinion. Never once tried to belittle you for your views. Might have got slightly heated but that happens at times when people do not understand the others opinions.

Hey think i was on your ignore list . But instead of trying to drum it into you that you are totally wrong like some do i just stay away from topics like religion and respectwhat you believe.

Like i say i really do not know why you bother . I would just leave them to believe they are right and know everything and post in other threads. Got to be better than posting what for you is valid questions and have the same few try to ridicule you.

I must admit Mack does handle himself well, considering most of the threads he posts in are quite volatile topics.

 

[mcgameboy]

For me the biggest problem is obvious....the political rants section.
When it comes to threads within this particular section, toxicity is never far away.

You have Leavers banging heads with Remainers, Pro-Trumpers banging heads with Anti-Trumpers,
pro-vaxxers and pro-lockdowners banging heads with anti-vaxxers and anti-lockdowners,
North Korea thread etc etc.

There is a reason why I generally don't post in these threads....I just feel that no matter what opinion I choose to express, it is going to be the wrong one, someone is going to take issue with it, call me a dumb fuckwit and leave me wishing that I had just kept quiet and played a couple of levels of Toon Blast on my phone instead. Yes, that's right people, Toon Blast is what is helping to keep me sane these days. Sheesh.

I've been a member here for a little over 7 years, and for most of that time, this place was my sanctuary.
THE first site I would go to on an almost daily basis. That's how much I enjoyed being a member here.

Those days are long gone. I have to say that my 7th year as a member here was by far, my least enjoyable.
The political threads were the main reason for that. I would read what the membership would say, then start to compose a post, and then, just as I am about to click on "post reply", I delete it all and leave the site.
Half an hour of my life wasted that I will never get back. And then rinse and repeat on any given day that I chose to come here nowadays.

It's just not worth the aggro anymore. I have enough things to deal with in my life without coming here and posting something, only to get shot down for expressing what most would consider to be a harmless opinion. So I stick to posting on matters that I deem to be "safe territory" eg just how much has HTML5 IR been nerfed to the fucking gills?

Is this whole Covid business starting to get under the collective skin of the membership? Perhaps it is.
But I remember a time here when people could get their differing points of view across WITHOUT
the need to openly mock those with a different opinion, without the need to incite/provoke confrontation and without the need to DELIBERATELY stir the pot until tempers flared.

In all seriousness, what happened to us as a community? We are supposed to be so much better than this.

 

[The Dude]

For me the biggest problem is obvious....the political rants section.
When it comes to threads within this particular section, toxicity is never far away.
...
In all seriousness, what happened to us as a community? We are supposed to be so much better than this.

Well - one solution is to close the political rants forum - and those who are inclined to have a go there can open up their own private group and continue the discussion there. The political rants have been nothing but a toxic asset since Trump and Brexit, and all of that garbage.

 

[The Dude]

In fact - I am inclined to do this to save this forum from the grief that is occasionally inflicted upon it.

 

[colinsunderland]

Well - one solution is to close the political rants forum - and those who are inclined to have a go there can open up their own private group and continue the discussion there. The political rants have been nothing but a toxic asset since Trump and Brexit, and all of that garbage.

I think that would be a good idea. I banned political discussions about 10 years ago and reports and moderation action decreased by about 90% within a couple of weeks.
I know quite a few other large forums have done the same.
It's a shame people can't discuss stuff like that without the hassle that comes with it, but it does seem a problem every forum has when it comes to that type of discussion.

 

[mcgameboy]

Well - one solution is to close the political rants forum - and those who are inclined to have a go there can open up their own private group and continue the discussion there. The political rants have been nothing but a toxic asset since Trump and Brexit, and all of that garbage.

There is another thing Bryan. With the US Election looming very large (this time next week we'll have a fair idea of who has won), I dread to think how toxic the atmosphere might get here once the results are known.

The fact is, I simply don't trust portions of the membership here to behave like mature adults and/or conduct themselves with any level of civility that would be considered acceptable.

It's only a matter of time before someone on "the winning side" decides to compose one of those really arrogant, smug as fuck gloating posts. The kind that are composed for one reason and one reason alone - to provoke a reaction from someone on "the losing side".

Next thing you know, the person who set out to get a reaction goes and reports the retaliator.
And who gets banned? The member who retaliated, while the "provocatuer" gets off scot-free.
Which in turn will only spark further outrage from some of the membership.

Personally, I think you need to close the political rants forum before next Tuesday night. Or Dion, Max, Mr.D and yourself are going to be spending your time putting out fires for the next fortnight.

And I think Max and yourself have much better (and more important) things to be doing with your time.
Just my two cents.

 

[dionysus]

Works for me.
Toss Brexit, election 2019, N Korea and corona; may they rest in peace

 

[maxd]

To whom it may concern: I'm well aware that some of the posts here identify me specifically as part of the problem -- in particular @colinsunderland and @geordiecolin -- often based on specific incidents that i've precipitated.

Please know that I'm happy to address those issues, individually would probably be best, but out of respect to Bryan's original topic and the importance of keeping that from being derailed I don't think this is the time and maybe not the place.

Assuming the relevant parties aren't going anywhere all I feel comfortable saying here now is "we'll get to it".

 

[colinsunderland]

Works for me.
Toss Brexit, election 2019, N Korea and corona; may they rest in peace

Why the corona thread? It's not political, or does it generate a lot of reports?

 

[dionysus]

opinions there are as disparate as the political threads and have a political element - and frankly, politics topics, despite any measures would simply leak there
Boris and corona
Trump and corona
etc

 

[colinsunderland]

To whom it may concern: I'm well aware that some of the posts here identify me specifically as part of the problem -- in particular @colinsunderland and @geordiecolin -- often based on specific incidents that i've precipitated.

Please know that I'm happy to address those issues, individually would probably be best, but out of respect to Bryan's original topic and the importance of keeping that from being derailed I don't think this is the time and maybe not the place.

Assuming the relevant parties aren't going anywhere all I feel comfortable saying here now is "we'll get to it".

Again, as I said to Dion, it wasn't a dig at you, and FWIW I'm big and daft enough to have a disagreement with you, then away from that be perfectly fine and joke with you in another thread, I was stating what some others have said to me. I'm not having a go at you personally, just at the process which is being followed, and the way some things are being dealt with.

 

[mcgameboy]

Why the corona thread? It's not political, or does it generate a lot of reports?

It could be argued that it is very political, given how much politicians have done (or not done) to enact measures that have had a detrimental, even devestating impact on peoples' lives and livelihoods.

Given how much coronavirus has dominated the news for the last 8 months, it is certainly a hot topic.

And also a divisive one.

 

[colinsunderland]

opinions there are as disparate as the political threads and have a political element - and frankly, politics topics, despite any measures would simply leak there
Boris and corona
Trump and corona
etc

I personally feel, closing a thread about a subject that affects pretty much everyone, worldwide, and will be spoken about for decades/centuries to come, would be a mistake. If political stuff overlaps then that should be fine, as long as it is a discussion and directly related to the topic, otherwise moderate the thread and exclude the rules breakers from the thread of need be.
What I mean is, saying Boris is starting a lockdown isn't political. Saying Trump says drink bleach isn't political. Bringing up a load more stuff not related to the virus could be and that type of thing kicked to the kerb. I don't really post much in that thread so doesn't really affect me, just my thoughts on it.

 

[Kroffe]

Please move all nature&cooking videos into a new thread called "best thread"
Thank you.


Sweet dreams NK-thread.

 

[mcgameboy]

Please move all nature&cooking videos into a new thread called "best thread"
Thank you.

Can we call it "The Sausage Party Thread"?

Actually, perhaps that's not such a good idea.

 

[Kroffe]

Can we call it "The Sausage Party Thread"?

Actually, perhaps that's not such a good idea.

But what would people think went on in the thread with a name like that?

Maybe "The thread formerly known as North Korea"
Then everybody understands its a thread for nature&food videos.

 

[Playford7]

I’d be outraged if you banned my corona cooking.

 

[dionysus]

I'm afraid I'm with @mcgameboy on that, I only had to go back a few pages where it was Trump this, Boris that..this party v that party
right measures, wrong measures, riots, opinions, facts and non-facts, information and disinformations, right or left, imo its as divisive as the political threads and very much has a political element or interest intertwined and I dont foresee that going anywhere in the immediate future when it's a political land-mine

@Ben, there is literally a food social group

 

[paul7388]

I’d be outraged if you banned my corona cooking.

Sure you could make your own thread for it.

Could name it Cheese and Burnt offerings or something similar lol.

 

[dionysus]

Sure you could make your own thread for it.

Could name it Cheese and Burnt offerings or something similar lol.

Bear VS Ben: Cooking Show-Down

 

[mcgameboy]

I’d be outraged if you banned my corona cooking.

It wouldn't be banned Ben, merely transferred. And to a greater platform at that.

Frankly, you need to get your content out to a wider audience.

Ben's Botched Balti and Other Culinary Cockups Thread

 

[mack341]

There is a lot of hostility in the corona thread, I experienced some last night, but it is an important topic, shouldn't be asking much for members to keep things civil.

The thing with the trump thread is, left to their own devices, the anti-trump members [majority] will enjoy themselves and have a high old time, it's when some poor sap [ ] out of the minority ventures in there with a different opinion.

But I can see Mcgameboy's point it is likely a tinderbox come next week, unless shut to conservatives, then it could offer a good venting zone to let out frustration if trump wins.

Brexit is chopley's labour of love so I know he will be disappointed if that is shut, but it seems trivial or a minor side event now compared to covid.

 

[The Dude]

Or how about this? I keep those threads open and people promise not to go ape shit, abide by our rules, no flaming, no trolling, no bullying, and moderate yourselves like adults.

That is my preferred method. The choice is really up to you folks.

 

[Playford7]

Or how about this? I keep those threads open and people promise not to go ape shit, abide by our rules, no flaming, no trolling, no bullying, and moderate yourselves like adults.

That is my preferred method. The choice is really up to you folks.

Much better option.

 

[dionysus]

There is a lot of hostility in the corona thread, I experienced some last night, but it is an important topic, shouldn't be asking much for members to keep things civil.

The thing with the trump thread is, left to their own devices, the anti-trump members [majority] will enjoy themselves and have a high old time, it's when some poor sap [ ] out of the minority ventures in there with a different opinion.

But I can see Mcgameboy's point it is likely a tinderbox come next week, unless shut to conservatives, then it could offer a good venting zone to let out frustration if trump wins.

Brexit is chopley's labour of love so I know he will be disappointed if that is shut, but it seems trivial or a minor side event now compared to covid.

FYI next week is merely a 'a date' - , there's the couple likely weeks of tabulating, move to the contentions and court hearings; we may be talking into 2021 there

 

[rena35]

The so called Trump thread was supposed to be about North Korea. I do not feel comfortable posting most times. I only post if i feel a need to. I also participate in the remarkable thread but i have run a comp just did it anonymously with someone's help. I have had a few times i felt some member's missed my point entirely and said something i did not like at all. I felt it maybe a different way of speaking since i am in the USA. I do not entirely feel a part of this forum because i don't have much to add unless it is in the America the beautiful thread. It is not so beautiful here atm and that thread seems deserted most times.

 

[mack341]

maybe we could have a code word -don't be naughty- [dbn] we can affix to a reply instead of reporting

 

[mack341]

FYI next week is merely a 'a date' - , there's the couple likely weeks of tabulating, move to the contentions and court hearings; we may be talking into 2021 there

I am willing to forsake my posts in that thread if it helps, I can get some amusement or shock out of reading others, same with covid really, I've basically made my points, but if someone wants an amiable or friendly discussion on most topics I'm up for it.

 

[dionysus]

I am willing to forsake my posts in that thread if it helps, I can get some amusement or shock out of reading others, same with covid really, I've basically made my points, but if someone wants an amiable or friendly discussion on most topics I'm up for it.

I've publicly expressed to you before I LIKE reading your posts.
I rarely agree with your perspectives but I fully appreciate the different perspective and time and thought you put into your posts

 

[mack341]

I've publicly expressed to you before I LIKE reading your posts.
I rarely agree with your perspectives but I fully appreciate the different perspective and time and thought you put into your posts

But if 40% of the aggro indirectly emanates from my posts I don't mind taking a hit so the others can enjoy it, I've been posting there less anyway, and can be too dogged about stuff; trump and the situation around him is very much like groundhog day. I'll discuss nature instead with Kroffe, but not his sausages

 

[The Dude]

Thanks peeps. I am getting some helpful responses here.

As for the report a post thingy, it is used way less often than some of you are thinking. Looking at this month's reported posts, I think a number of you probably believe there are more problems than what there really is..

This month Oct. (which is nearly over) - 23 reported posts.

6 = spam
7 = misc (posted in wrong forum, heads up about a rep needing to reply, testing something that may have been broken - other innocuous posts)
10 = member complaints about someone's posting style or behavior, troll posts - whatever.

So in perspective the reporting feature is used more for taking care of the forum - members assisting us - it is not used primarily to complain about joe blow (unless he's a spammer).

For a forum this size and with this much activity - that is saying a lot.

 

[LadyJelena]

Did @LadyJelena get the axe on here? Have not seen her post in quite awhile. She had this angry female stare which was scary anyway.

Who is going to wake up and contact the reps now?

Awww, what a sweet post full of love I had no idea I'm so missed and scary