Card Spike

Casinomeister

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Strong allegations, but where are the facts? FWIW - there have been no PABs submitted concerning this operation, and no one has posted any complaints here as well. I'm not saying that there are no aggrieved affiliates and/or players, but I am always skeptical when there is a report on many people getting stiffed.

If anyone is getting screwed over by them, they are welcome to submit their complaints here. The winter's break is about over in Casinomeisterland :p
 

pokeraddict

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Aug 3, 2002
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Las Vegas
There are dozens of stories over the internet about this. It is a mess. Players are having cashout issues and many or most affiliates are not getting paid. Hopefully whoever is behind this (G911 reports what everyone else thinks about that) will fix it. Cake Poker has also announced they are investigating CardSpike. Hopefully they can speed up the process. CardSpike appears to be a microskin of Sportsbook.com, a group of D- sportsbooks.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
As PA says, this has been running for a couple months now - CardSpike launched late last year and within a few weeks there were reports of hassles in the no-slow payment area.

The excuses given suggested classic stalling-and-cashflow-problem tactics and it seems to have degenerated further as it has become a subject of intense disciussion on major online poker message boards.

Nat Arem has gone so far as to warn readers of his blog after looking into this, and PAP fired CardSpike's ass on December 31st.

With Cake Poker also investigating, the future for CardSpike does not look good imv, and players and affiliates alike need to be cautious.

Something nasty is going on there imo - despite this site being a member of a fairly large group - Domain Holdings Limited, which owns around 17 other websites.
 

pokeraddict

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Also I can't remember where this was posted originally but do remember this post:

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It is quite a drama. I guess in the end the true story will come out but the shares the community belief about who owns CardSpike and who has stiffed affiliates. For sure the stiffed affiliates part is true as well as quite a few players having their own problems getting cashouts and rakeback owed. For the good of the industry I hope whoever is behind this fixes it soon. There has been no news from CardSpike or CAP/PAP about this in about 2 weeks.
 

mojo

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East Coast
Another fine mess. The first order of business should be getting people paid what is due.

edit to add: I should add that I have confidence and trust in Michael as a leader in the affiliate community. It will all work out eventually.
 
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jetset

RIP Brian
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Feb 22, 2001
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Also I can't remember where this was posted originally but do remember this post:

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It is quite a drama. I guess in the end the true story will come out but the shares the community belief about who owns CardSpike and who has stiffed affiliates. For sure the stiffed affiliates part is true as well as quite a few players having their own problems getting cashouts and rakeback owed. For the good of the industry I hope whoever is behind this fixes it soon. There has been no news from CardSpike or CAP/PAP about this in about 2 weeks.


I think 911 probably based their story on this GPWA forum posting:

GPWA forum -
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Michael is certainly nailing his colours to the mast in that post and presumably feels he has enough hard evidence to safely make this sort of statement, but his own directory lists Cardspike as a property in the Domain Holdings group.

Unless Cardspike is another of those excerable 'white label' deals....
 

bonustreak

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webmeister
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Home Office
Be nice to see hard evidence :cool: Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.
 

Casinomeister

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Be nice to see hard evidence :cool: Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.
Not just players - I've never turned down a PAB for affiliates either.

PAB doors are open if anyone cares to have me or Max look into this.
 

mojo

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Location
East Coast
Not just players - I've never turned down a PAB for affiliates either.

PAB doors are open if anyone cares to have me or Max look into this.

I didn't know affiliates could PAB. :thumbsup: I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.
 

Casinomeister

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I didn't know affiliates could PAB. :thumbsup: I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.

And why not? I never understood why people make assumptions that webmasters/affiliates are excluded from the PAB (most are players anyway). In fact, there was one for Vegas Affiliates just a few days ago that Max seemed to have cleared up el Pronto.

If there are any aggrieved Card Spike affiliates or players, now's your chance.
 

mojo

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East Coast
And why not? I never understood why people make assumptions that webmasters/affiliates are excluded from the PAB (most are players anyway).

I can't speak for everyone but for me I saw 'player advocate' on the logo and figured it was players only. My bad. :p
 

Casinomeister

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I can't speak for everyone but for me I saw 'player advocate' on the logo and figured it was players only. My bad. :p
My business cards say "casino and player advocate". Guess I should change the logo :p
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I must admit, I never knew that either. But then I'm new here :)

Ditto Muppet Man...still trying to familiarize myself with the place and procedures. :smilewink:
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
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I didn't know affiliates could PAB. :thumbsup: I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.
I PAB'd about InChilli affiliates March'07 and CM did get manage to get some funds released for me before the rest disappeared down that black hole! :thumbsup:

I must admit, I never knew that either. But then I'm new here :)
:lolup: Yer 'affin a laugh innit?

[/derail]
 

pokeraddict

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Location
Las Vegas
Be nice to see hard evidence :cool: Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.

There are dozens of stories across the internet on other portals that are not as soap opera like. These include PokerSite Scout, Poker News Daily as well as reports on several poker affiliate sites. I have suggested to several to come PAB. The reason I'm sure that it wasn't done before the suggestion is because many in the poker world do not know about CM and/or they assume it is only for casinos.

It seems the people that pushed CardSpike so hard are at least talking again so maybe this is going to work out.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I'm still troubled by the lack of substantiated fact and hard evidence here.

Undoubtedly CardSpike has been up to no good and deserves to be bashed, but the ownership question on which so much opprobrium has been heaped on the CAP people - in some cases by individuals for whom I have considerable personal respect - remains unproved as far as I can see.

Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

In the last 24 hours, CAP has broken its silence on the issue with a strong denial of ownership to complement its earlier statements by "Warren" when this started to attract attention, and the removal of the site from PAP.

This is what Lou Fabiano had to say on behalf of CAP and PAP:

"Cardspike is not controlled or managed by CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly (organizer) or Lou "The Professor" Fabiano.

"CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly, Lou "The Professor" Fabiano and all other personnel of CAP have absolutely no ownership interest, no profits interest and no beneficial interest whatsoever in Cardspike.

"Any statements or malicious rumors to the contrary are untrue and unfair."

In this sort of situation, and personalities aside, I don't know who to believe, and I suspect a growing number of other folks feel the same way.

Bryan's post #2 early in this thread pretty much sums up my own opinion at present.
 

pokeraddict

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Las Vegas
Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

This is why I have tried to dodge the ownership topic in my posts as to me it is speculation and the way these things are set up are often tangled webs anyway. Fact is (was maybe as some have reported payments in the last day or two) affiliates were not getting paid and players were having their own problems as well and there is no disputing that as even posts by CardSpike at PAP admit these issues. The question of ownership, while interesting is meaningless. The only meaningful thing to me is getting people paid.

All of this horrible publicity is probably what was needed to get things set in motion. Affiliate groups organized, news sites wrote reports on the issue, players and affiliates went to forums, Cake Poker got involved, CAP/PAP turned on the heat and the owners/management of CardSpike, whoever they are, likely realized they were going to lose their entire investment if they didn't do something. I know from reading a private affiliate forum that efforts are being made and some or most are paid which is more than can be said about the last couple of months so things are headed in the right direction.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.
 

Casinomeister

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Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.

I feel that in this situation - ownership is vital knowledge.

I take it this is a white label or "skin" of Cake Poker. If this is something that falls under CAP's realm I would be rather perturbed since it seems CAP is denying any connection, but others are saying there is a connection.

Some people (like myself) consider White Labels and skins to be affiliate programs on steroids, and there is nothing wrong with them if the ownership is transparent.

If an organization like CAP were to have a poker room, calling it CAPpoker.com and inviting all affiliates to join and promote would be a pretty understandable and cool thing to do. To be running a skin and pretending it to be not associated would be an uncool thing to do. That's deceptive, and an organization like CAP should not be involved in something like that.

Imagine for a moment that it was discovered that I owned Crystal Palace Casino :p That would kind of put a damper on things in Casinomeisterland :D
 
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