Big Dollar Casino

[andi]

LOL at Mousey!!
Too funny and too right!

 

[Casinomeister]

This is my first official day back at work. If anyone has not PABd and contacted eCOGRA about this, now is the time to do so. I'll try to find out what's up as soon as possible.

 

[andi]

Thanks Casinomeister, good luck!

 

[Seaman63]

Thank you meister for all youre doing for us!

 

[andi]

Hey!
Thinking with all the pennies I am earning at the Royal Vegas tournies I can win back the lost money from Big Dollar!! LOL

 

[Casinomeister]

I've been informed that this issue has been resolved with all players - perhaps a few loose ends to be tied up.

If there are any outstanding issues on this, speak now so we can consider this chapter finished. Thanks!

 

[andi]

I've been informed that this issue has been resolved with all players - perhaps a few loose ends to be tied up.

If there are any outstanding issues on this, speak now so we can consider this chapter finished. Thanks!

Issue has been resolved? lol
They have not tied up my loose ends because they never paid me!
Good luck, and thank you!!!

 

[liseleva]

Hi, They sent me a cd with $100.00 to try their casino

[Hi, They sent me a cd with $100.00 to try their casino, so I downloaded and I played it, did the plathrought and won 500$. Never a problem got paid right away. Lise Levasseur





QUOTE=andi;147322]Hey There,





I am just wondering if anyone has an alternate contact for Big Dollar Casino, besides the obvious on their website? I am having some real issues regarding a withdrawl I made last Friday. Did anyone take part in the Big Shot loyalty promo? 100 points was equal to $50 of bonus money. The playthrough was ridiculous but for some weird reason I made it and was able to cash out $1500.00. Yes able to cash out but no cash yet! They are now saying this-

Kindly note that all cashins in Big Dollar from the 7th of February are
being audited on
an ongoing basis (even the new cashins) to ensure compliance with the
terms and conditions of recent promotions.

Fine, yes I get it, however, I have also been a regular depositor with this whole group of casinos! Customer service!! yeah right--I have called and used live support and of course no answers.
Anyhow, if anyone could suggest perhaps a managers email I would really appreciate it!
Thank you so much!! [/QUOTE]

 

[Casinomeister]

Issue has been resolved? lol
They have not tied up my loose ends because they never paid me!
Good luck, and thank you!!!

Did you submit your complaint to eCOGRA? If so, what was their decision? If not - well, I just forwarded your PAB to them.

I know the operator had your complaint, and I was hoping he was in contact with you while I was away.

 

[andi]

Thanks...
I didn't think Big Dollar was registered with eCogra actually, and I just read your post the other day about submitting a claim with them. My fault, I should have followed through with them. I have had no contact with support and they stopped replying to my emails. Funny enough I went into Playcheck the other night and saw my balance over $1500.00 however it was showing a different date than I had actually won on. As I said earlier I have not been a big player (2 deposits) but even still I am a customer. And a great customer with the other grand prive casinos. Anyhow, it would be really great to get paid as it has been a long struggle!
Thank you so much for your help, glad you are back!!!

 

[Seaman63]

I've been informed that this issue has been resolved with all players - perhaps a few loose ends to be tied up.

If there are any outstanding issues on this, speak now so we can consider this chapter finished. Thanks!

This issue is not resolved for me, Im still waiting to get paid my three cashouts about 1450 EUROs that I have made at that weekend.

 

[Casinomeister]

This issue is not resolved for me, Im still waiting to get paid my three cashouts about 1450 EUROs that I have made at that weekend.

Did you hear anything back for the casino? Your PAB was forwarded on the 19th of February to the operator.

 

[andi]

Did you hear anything back for the casino? Your PAB was forwarded on the 19th of February to the operator.

I sent them an email last night and here is my reply, is this what they call tying up loose ends. Of course I should have known better getting all those points, just because that is what was advertised in their promo????? Surely I am the idiot here "surely you knew" are you kidding me?


Dear xxxx

That's strange...all the other people I dealt with received my follow up emails.

Ok, no worries, this is what happened and what the casino decided.

The cashin has been voided in it's entirety meaning that no funds
can be paid to you. This was done due to all of the cashin funds that you
derived being accrued from a promotion that was flawed.

xxxxx, surely you knew while you were gambling that there was no
"normal" way for you to earn and redeem so many loyalty points so
quickly.

I am sorry that I do not have better news for you but this is what the casino
decided was best to do as it places you, the customer, in no worse position
than before the issue occurred.

I shall look for any reply.

 

[tennis_balls]

100 points was equal to $50 of bonus money.

that is a fairly obvious error, andi. When the error is that obvious, you usually don't get to keep the money. if my bank made an error and added $500 to my account, I wouldn't expect to be able to keep it.

still, they did mess up their promotion so they should throw you a few bones.

 

[andi]

that is a fairly obvious error, andi. When the error is that obvious, you usually don't get to keep the money. if my bank made an error and added $500 to my account, I wouldn't expect to be able to keep it.

still, they did mess up their promotion so they should throw you a few bones.

Keep in mind that was the promotion advertised...100 loyalty points equals $50. Seem's pretty clear to me. If that is advertised within the casino and posted within the rules, how is that my fault. Also, I had lots of loyalty points saved before this promo even started. I was at the 500 loyalty point mark before this all started.
Sorry, don't think it was my error. It is up to the customer to follow and investigate the promotion rules clearly yes, however it is the casino's responsibilty to make sure they have advertised their promotion correctly.
Thanks
andi

 

[tennis_balls]

it was an error.

not unlike an error in a newspaper ad offering the latest Porsche for $5000.

it sucks that you had some luck with this money, but the reality is that you have a weak claim on those winnings

 

[Seaman63]

Did you hear anything back for the casino? Your PAB was forwarded on the 19th of February to the operator.

Unfortunatly, I never recieved any answer from them.Also the mail that andi posted today here did never reach me...

 

[andi]

Seaman63 - I just received this today after sending out a reminder last night.

tennis_balls - This causes me to think that at any casino, I should question everything. If I am on a roll somewhere and winning then perhaps I should question the payout structure being too high and the reels set too loose?
Perhaps I may not be able to claim these winnings. The point is they messed up their promotion, no matter whose fault the flaw was they need to take responsibility for their actions, which they are not.
Also, please note even though it was free bonus money the playthrough was incredibly high. The casino had themselves covered with the playthrough requirement, which unfortunately for them I cleared (and checked with support at the time). Please consider this has been a roller coaster ride of telling me yes and no and yes I will receive my cashout. I understand what you are saying, maybe if it was your situation you may feel a little more adamant about it.
Thanks for your opinions.
andi

 

[vinylweatherman]

Point

Seaman63 - I just received this today after sending out a reminder last night.

tennis_balls - This causes me to think that at any casino, I should question everything. If I am on a roll somewhere and winning then perhaps I should question the payout structure being too high and the reels set too loose?
Perhaps I may not be able to claim these winnings. The point is they messed up their promotion, no matter whose fault the flaw was they need to take responsibility for their actions, which they are not.
Also, please note even though it was free bonus money the playthrough was incredibly high. The casino had themselves covered with the playthrough requirement, which unfortunately for them I cleared (and checked with support at the time). Please consider this has been a roller coaster ride of telling me yes and no and yes I will receive my cashout. I understand what you are saying, maybe if it was your situation you may feel a little more adamant about it.
Thanks for your opinions.
andi

The casino did not simply misprint the advertisement, it was implemented in the software. Players who make errors, even small ones are made to suffer the consequences.
Long ago, a player won some $8000 at Trident lounge. They had, however, made an error. Whilst reading the T & C on the 31st, they deposited and claimed the bonus the next day, and it hapened that the game they played was added to the list of exclusions in the new month. Had they played a day earlier, there would have been no question of not getting paid, but because they had failed to check the new terms and played a banned game, placing some bets on it with the bonus money, the casino denied the appeal and the decision to not pay was made to stand. The player was put back into the position they had been in prior, having to start again with the original bankroll.
In this case, the promo was implemented wrongly, but the casino seems to be confiscating EVERYTHING, not just the excess money awarded over what should have been awarded. In effect, they are punishing players for reading the Terms and conditions and taking them at their word.
This would NEVER happen at a B & M, the punter would have left with the money from the botched promotion, and the casino management would take the hit. Certain staff would be severely disciplined for making the cock-up in the first place, and it is THEY that would be losing their bonus! In the case of an online casino, where were the staff who were supposed to be looking after the casino, didn't they see it all going wrong so that they could nip it in the bud before players started collecting on the promotion and playing.
Has the loss really been so great that the casino CANNOT pay, rather than WILL not pay?

Perhaps someone can post the full terms of this, so the mathematically minded can see how bad (or not) this really was for the casino. Such as how much wagering, and on what, earned 100 points in the first place.

 

[Nifty29]

I agree with Vinyl here that the casino should take the hit - however, there was fault on both sides but more so on Big Dollar IMO.

The deal here was that IF you earned 100 loyalty points ($10 wagered = 1 point, but doubled on some games) DURING the promotion period, you could cash them in for a $50 ezibonus. No limit to these bonuses was set. Players could claim this bonus through their loyalty area, where an extra conversion rate was added in the dropdown menu (instead of usual 1000pts = $10)

The issue, as far as I could see, was that ANYONE could use their CURRENT loyalty points to claim the $50 bonuses, instead of just the players who had accumulated them during the promo period. In defence of the casino here, it was stated that the points had to be earned during the promotion period.

However, the deal was posted on most of the forums and players went ahead and took advantage of the flaw. The casino should have ensured that ONLY points earned during that period were eligible for the $50 bonus, and not ANY points - that is absolutely the casinos error. If the promo had been setup correctly, none of this would have happened. After all, how could anyone actually playing during the promo distinguish between the points they did or didnt earn that were eligible?

Big Dollar could have done themselves a great service here by paying out and showing that their players are important to them - instead they have created an atmosphere of mistrust and have certainly caused me to put a big red cross next to them on my list.

 

[andi]

Thank you vinylweatherman for your comments. I appreciate your feedback.
The short version of this promotion called "The Big Shot Promotion" were posted directly inside the casino. The only rules stated that for 100 loyalty points you received $50 in bonus money. Fortunately, I have never cashed any of my points so I had a good balance to play. The option to cash out these points was available directly under the loyalty points drop down bar, Big shot promotion 100 points equals $50. Sorry, I have no full details for you to read. As I said earlier, the playthrough was huge which is why I checked with support to confirm I had cleared it before cashing. I had a huge hit at Thunderstruck and it happened pretty quick. It seems they had not expected so many people apparently to clear the playthrough, and claim any winnings.

xxxxx, surely you knew while you were gambling that there was no
"normal" way for you to earn and redeem so many loyalty points so
quickly.

That is still my favourite part of this whole thing, surely what was I thinking??
I was winning.........................
Let's see what eCogra says......

 

[tennis_balls]

Big Dollar could have done themselves a great service here by paying out and showing that their players are important to them - instead they have created an atmosphere of mistrust and have certainly caused me to put a big red cross next to them on my list.

i'm not sure they could afford to take the hit on this one. it was an effup of monumental proportion. I saw one player at a forum that "won" over $100k from this. some players grabbed the reigns and freerolled like mofos with all these free bonus dollars.

I agree that Big Dollar has really dropped the ball in regards to providing a clearer explanation as to what went down. Once word of this promo hit the bonus-hustler forums, this thing surely took on a life of its own.

Had I known about this promo, I probably would have taken a shot as well, but I would have done so knowing that there was a good possiblility the water could get murky.

And I have seen things of this nature occur at a B&M casino and the player doesn't always necessarily get to keep the winnings.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Software error.

i'm not sure they could afford to take the hit on this one. it was an effup of monumental proportion. I saw one player at a forum that "won" over $100k from this. some players grabbed the reigns and freerolled like mofos with all these free bonus dollars.

I agree that Big Dollar has really dropped the ball in regards to providing a clearer explanation as to what went down. Once word of this promo hit the bonus-hustler forums, this thing surely took on a life of its own.

Had I known about this promo, I probably would have taken a shot as well, but I would have done so knowing that there was a good possiblility the water could get murky.

And I have seen things of this nature occur at a B&M casino and the player doesn't always necessarily get to keep the winnings.

Now, why could the casino not have expanded on this before. Clearly, redeeming points that were not eligible under the T & C, but that could be used due to a software bug, does give the casino more of a case. However, I suspect they have still gone too far in confiscating more than the excess due to the error.
In a B & M casino, while the casino could make a claim, the player would already have the money, and the onus would be on the CASINO to prove their case, whereas online it is the PLAYER who has to prove the casino is wrong. recent B & M cases have involved casinos taking action against players to RECOVER money believed to have been won against the terms of the game. Recent cases have involved the use of clandestine computer technology to beat games such as Blackjack, Roulette and 3 card poker. The casino had to prove their case in court. In the case of the 3 card poker, sloppy dealing was what enabled the scam to be successful. Had they not proved that players took advantage of this with technology, the casino would have had to take the hit, and reprimand the dealer.

Big Dollar should only remove the blocks of $50 that were awarded against the terms for the promotion. Even the promotion itself was mathematically flawed, as they used the standard $10 for 1 point, with $50 awarded for 100 points. Perhaps they meant it to be $50 for 1000 points, which would have been a 5% cashback on wagered amount with ridiculous playthrough. Someone on duty should have seen this going wrong while it was happening, rather than allowing play to continue under false pretences and confiscating winnings with a rather sketchy explanation later.

If indeed they could not pay such a hit, why do they have their multi-hand VP games set to allow such massively high wagers!
The norm at MG is 125 ($125) per deal at the 50 hand game. ALL FIVE Grand Prive casinos will allow coin to go up to 25. This is a massive 6250 per hand maximum. It is possible that a lucky (perhaps stupidly rich), player will play at that level, and hit the holy grail of a PAT RF, Grand Prive would then be liable for a payout of 800x6250, or some 5 MILLION on the hand!
Added to this, they once mailed out a bonus of 25% up to 25,000
Someone depositing 100,000 for this may very well be the kind of filthy rich player prepared to hit the VP at 6250 per hand in the hope of getting a more common big hit, such as pat 4 to a royal, pat 4OK etc.

 

[andi]

vinylweatherman I love your opinions.
I completely agree with you, I feel like I am going to be fighting this one to the end.
Maybe I should, I don't know?

This was a brilliant solution................
Big Dollar should only remove the blocks of $50 that were awarded against the terms for the promotion. Even the promotion itself was mathematically flawed, as they used the standard $10 for 1 point, with $50 awarded for 100 points. Perhaps they meant it to be $50 for 1000 points, which would have been a 5% cashback on wagered amount with ridiculous playthrough. Someone on duty should have seen this going wrong while it was happening, rather than allowing play to continue under false pretences and confiscating winnings with a rather sketchy explanation later.

BTW, what are B & M casinos?
Thanks
andi

 

[ljade243]

Greetings group.

E-Cogra is no more of an enforcement/policing agency as the mob was to Vegas in the 50s and 60s.

I tried working with "Tex Reese" - the alleged, "problem coordinator." I've attached my emails, take a look.....







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




name
Mr. xxxx xxxxxxxxx

country
United States

city
xxxx xxxxxx

telephone
xxx-xxx-xxxx

email
xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx

casino name
Big Dollar Casino

username
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

date of incident
xx/x/xxxx

casino contact email
xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx

software provider
Microgaming

informed provider
no

to whom


dispute
Greetings: I understand you want us to wait two weeks, but I'm getting emails returned (no valid email address) and have spent hours on hold, never being able to speak with a rep at Liberty Group.... I hope you understand my frustration....

I have been a customer of Big Dollar for quite some time (years) and have always respected decisions made regarding all aspects of their operations until now. Since this banking issue has hit the US, I have spent several days seeking out a viable Credit/Debit card which would allow me to purchase casino credits to take advantage of a much advertised promotion Called "Big Shot".

The Casino advertised a month long, weekly 5 day promo whereby they were offering 50.00 in Casino Credits per 100 loyalty points, subject to playthrough reqt's (yes, a very liberal promo). Saturday I was having some success finally, banking some winnings, several thousand dollars, even turning away over five hundred dollars in credits to allow me to bank some real money. I was in the process of moving from my girlfriends house, to my brothers, have computers at both locations and their casino downloaded on both computers.

While relying on their advertised duration of the promotion, Wed-Sunday, I decided to forego cashing in several thousand (over 10,000) loyalty points earned while at my brothers, instead would redeem them 30 minutes later once i got to my girlfriends. I had many hours to go until the expiration of the promo, so no big deal. When arriving at my girlfriends, I attempted, to redeem points at the promotional rate ($50.00 per 100 points) and was unable to do so, that option was removed from the casino.

Because I was playing at a different location, I thought it was the downloaded program that was the problem. Naturally, I couldn't get through to customer service, despite spending over one hour trying. Well, I reversed my winnings, as I play to have fun and being eCogra establishment thought they would make good on the advertised promotion.

I sent an Email and received the response below.....

"...Due to success and the overwhelming response received in regards to the promotion. We had to end the promotion a few hours earlier. There will be a new promotion in the near future. Remember that the early bird catches the worm !!!!!!!!!!!! "

Due to the overwhelming success...they had to end the promotion early,,," ???? That makes no sense If I had a few minutes notice, I could have redeemed my loyalty points for the credits. I was denied thousands and thousands of credits.

"Remember that the early bird catches the worm!!!..." ???? What is that supposed to mean?? If I had played on Wed instead of Saturday they wouldn't have denied me these credits that I earned?? I should have well over five thousand dollars in Casino Credits (not cash) that of course would be subject to ther standard playthrough policy. Ending their promotion early because they had too much success and overwhelming response is paranthetically silly, irresponsible and unprofessional.

Imagine if a player charged back thousands of dollars because he was having "overwhelming success" and when the casino sent an email inquiring about this, he player replied...."the early bird get's the worm!" Like I said, i can't get through....your help is really appreciated...

I rec'd the following reply....



From: xxxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx [mailto:xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx]
Sent: 16 February 2007 10:40
To: info@ecogra.org
Subject: Player Dispute
Importance: High



Dear xxxx,



We have investigated your query with the casino and have made the following findings;

You did not redeem your rewards.
The General Terms and Conditions of the promotion state that “BIG DOLLAR CASINO reserves the right to discontinue or cancel any promotion as and when management deems it appropriate.”
Bearing the above in mind, I must inform you that I find your dispute to be invalid.

Kind Regards,

Tex Rees


I then sent another follow up....

Mr. Rees,

!. I beg to differ with you, I did redeem my rewards. They were to be redeemed at a rate of 50.00 casino credits, per 100 loyalty points. i got 10.00 per 1000.
2. I made my purchase relying on the casino to honor its advertised promotion. How can ecogra support the contention that casino management is justified stopping the promotion, right in the middle?

At the very least, I should get my money back, if this were honest and fair, the casino would honor its advertised promo. e-cogra, i thought, was this great endorsement entity. this is baloney tex. the casino has the upper hand, not the players, how can you do this?

If i were scamming or charging back, that's one thing, but this is BS. tell the casino, i want my money back or i'm taking action.

unbelievable!!!!

The on-line gaming industry has itself to blame for the US pulling out of the on-line gaming arena. This was the strongest argument the supporters of this law had, followed by a very distant "breakdown of the family" allegation.

E-cogra is just another self-serving, pay as you go...nothing enforcer.

i look forward to hearing back very soon.


I got a follow up, they stand by their decision, because the Terms and Conditions allow a casino to change their promotions whenever they feel so inclined. Just think, I'm loosing so I think I'm going to charge back, because my personal terms and conditions allow for this......

all bullshit....