Bonus Complaint Betfred Not Paying £7.5k Win Due to Single Mistaken Bet

[cheekydancer]

I signed up to Betfred yesterday, deposited £1,000 and got a £500 bonus. I read all the terms and fully understood I couldn't bet 20% or more of the bonus.

As I was changing the slot bet so I would bet less than £100 it done a spin of £110. I'm not sure how it spun, they said it wasn't an error on their side, but I am thinking I may have pressed a button on my keyboard (is this possible?). Anyway, I didn't win a penny on that spin.
I immediately changed my bet after this to be under the 20% rule, and continued to abide by the rule for the whole wagering.

Now, despite me not winning a penny on my bet, and it clearly being an error on (my?) part, they are now not paying my £7.5k win. I'm distraught and in tears.

What are your thoughts on this term? Surely it is there to stop people winning too much, isn't it? So why are they applying it to me when I won diddly squat from the bet?

Betfred are saying the same thing happened here - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betfred-confiscated-my-2600£-winnings.54085/ - but that is completely different as the guy WON with his bets, and bet over the 20% the whole way through.

 

[dunover]

At the end of the day, harsh as it is, you breached the bonus terms. They are within their rights. Whether you accidentally pressed a key (possible, usually the space bar to raise bet) they can't take your word for it, it's impossible to prove. Whether the spin won or not is irrelevant. The rule in in place to stop 'blockbuster betting' whereby somebody in your position made say 3x 500 bets and hit a bonus round or 5OAK win which from then on would make the bonus almost certain to meet wagering requirement.
The idea is usually to extend gameplay, and secondly in many cases trap your cash deposit into an EV- chance which favours the casino.

It's like being done for drink driving by a fraction and saying to Police 'I accidentally had an extra sip of wine'.

Sorry, but another thing, if you are in 'tears' that surprises me; someone who can deposit a grand as a new player at a site must certainly be in a position to lose it - otherwise, there is a problem.

You haven't said whether Betfred are voiding your play due to a breach of the bonus terms, and refunding your deposit only. In that case, no reason for tears, you are back to square one and can chuck the grand away somewhere else where they offer you 50% + bonus.

 

[Sovietsky]

That sucks to be honest!

It happend to me once on Netent slots beacuse the max button is so damn near and you will sooner or later accidentally press it. I didn't breach any terms but I lost nice chunk of money.

The only tip I can give is either not to take a bonus or take a bonus without max bet. Not much of help but I will not be a prick and write you breached the terms therfor your fault.

Also did you talk with Betfred and tell them about the mistake? Maybe they can meet you halfway?

 

[dunover]

That sucks to be honest!

It happend to me once on Netent slots beacuse the max button is so damn near and you will sooner or later accidentally press it. I didn't breach any terms but I lost nice chunk of money.

The only tip I can give is either not to take a bonus or take a bonus without max bet. Not much of help but I will not be a prick and write you breached the terms therfor your fault.
Also did you talk with Betfred and tell them about the mistake? Maybe they can meet you halfway?

No need for the offensive insults. He did, that's why they aren't paying him.

If I was a 'prick' I wouldn't have read the OP's post properly and therefore missed the fact he's already talked to them, like someone just has......ahem....cough...

 

[cheekydancer]

At the end of the day, harsh as it is, you breached the bonus terms. They are within their rights. Whether you accidentally pressed a key (possible, usually the space bar to raise bet) they can't take your word for it, it's impossible to prove. Whether the spin won or not is irrelevant. The rule in in place to stop 'blockbuster betting' whereby somebody in your position made say 3x 500 bets and hit a bonus round or 5OAK win which from then on would make the bonus almost certain to meet wagering requirement.
The idea is usually to extend gameplay, and secondly in many cases trap your cash deposit into an EV- chance which favours the casino.

It's like being done for drink driving by a fraction and saying to Police 'I accidentally had an extra sip of wine'.

Sorry, but another thing, if you are in 'tears' that surprises me; someone who can deposit a grand as a new player at a site must certainly be in a position to lose it - otherwise, there is a problem.

You haven't said whether Betfred are voiding your play due to a breach of the bonus terms, and refunding your deposit only. In that case, no reason for tears, you are back to square one and can chuck the grand away somewhere else where they offer you 50% + bonus.

The drinking analogy isn't really the same as it's quite easy to mistakenly do a bet. And it's clear I did as I immediately changed my bet and continued with that bet. You can't mistakenly have a drink of wine, like you said.

By the way I'm a girl, not a guy. Maybe that is why I am in tears. Also, I don't win £7,500 every day, although I have won a little bit more a couple of times, and been paid out with no problem.

Your point about 'blockbuster betting', that is my point. The rule is there to stop people winning big. I didn't win. Not a penny. And it was clearly a mistake.

 

[irmster]

I've done this - it's very easy to accidentally hit the wrong button or just make an honest mistake . I once bet £120 on a single line playtech slot when I thought I was betting £10 by hitting max play.

Probably it would have been better to have stopped when you realised you did it and got straight onto support and explained the mistake. In any case, if it's just one spin, you'd hope the casino would be a little more understanding.

I hope you manage to sort this out with them as it's not nice. I guess they could argue the 20% limit on £500 was pretty high and you still exceeded it.

Out of interest, what did you win on?

 

[Sovietsky]

No need for the offensive insults. He did, that's why they aren't paying him.

If I was a 'prick' I wouldn't have read the OP's post properly and therefore missed the fact he's already talked to them, like someone just has......ahem....cough...

I didn't even tought about your post and I see your point if you got offended wich was not my intention (belive it or not). So for that I am sorry.
I also didn't read OP's post properly. Mistakes happens like hitting the max button.

We all know that she made a mistake, I belive she made an honest mistake and what is done is done. So instead we can swap some ideas how to prevent these types of things like if the casinos could give some sort of warning box when you press max bet button for example.

 

[bpb]

The reality is, bonuses shouldn't be taken by people looking for fun and entertainment out of casinos. They should really only be taken by individuals with the intelligence and skill to exploit them.

 

[Nifty29]

The reality is, bonuses shouldn't be taken by people looking for fun and entertainment out of casinos. They should really only be taken by individuals with the intelligence and skill to exploit them.

The reality is.....you're way off.

It completely depends on what you want out of your gambling.

If your sole purpose is to win, then you should absolutely be skilled at working out whether bonuses are +EV and only take the bonuses that meet that criteria. Otherwise, they shouldn't take them.

If your sole purpose is to play as long as possible, then you should absolutely take a bonus every time. Its common sense.

If you want a mix of both, then obviously you need to compromise at some point.

In any case, your statement is erroneous, although it is nice to see a second sentence in there.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The drinking analogy isn't really the same as it's quite easy to mistakenly do a bet. And it's clear I did as I immediately changed my bet and continued with that bet. You can't mistakenly have a drink of wine, like you said.

By the way I'm a girl, not a guy. Maybe that is why I am in tears. Also, I don't win £7,500 every day, although I have won a little bit more a couple of times, and been paid out with no problem.

Your point about 'blockbuster betting', that is my point. The rule is there to stop people winning big. I didn't win. Not a penny. And it was clearly a mistake.

It's just a predatory business, no different to the traffic warden that pounces when you are a minute late getting back to the car.

It seems that all softwares like to design this "max bet mistake" into their games by making the most dangerous button as close as possible to the most used one. I expect most hope players won't notice that they are betting more than they thought they had set up. The opportunity to confiscate winnings from such a mistake is more recent.

A less predatory outfit would look to see whether it was likely to be a mistake, or a determined effort to beat the system. A single mis-spin followed by a correction to the regular stake should be seen as a slip. It's the several spins where the player only seems to notice after a big win that is more likely to be an attempt to beat the system whilst pretending it was a mistake.

I think Betfred are well known for predatory enforcement of the smallprint over relatively minor mistakes. To them, it's not a minor matter as it saves them 7K.

The benefit of contacting them as soon as the mistake is made is that they will have to put in writing what they are going to do about it (use email, not the phone or chat). This makes it harder for them to change their mind if you later go on to win without making further mistakes.

 

[Nifty29]

It's just a predatory business, no different to the traffic warden that pounces when you are a minute late getting back to the car.

It seems that all softwares like to design this "max bet mistake" into their games by making the most dangerous button as close as possible to the most used one. I expect most hope players won't notice that they are betting more than they thought they had set up. The opportunity to confiscate winnings from such a mistake is more recent. A less predatory outfit would look to see whether it was likely to be a mistake, or a determined effort to beat the system. A single mis-spin followed by a correction to the regular stake should be seen as a slip. It's the several spins where the player only seems to notice after a big win that is more likely to be an attempt to beat the system whilst pretending it was a mistake.

I think Betfred are well known for predatory enforcement of the smallprint over relatively minor mistakes. To them, it's not a minor matter as it saves them 7K.

The benefit of contacting them as soon as the mistake is made is that they will have to put in writing what they are going to do about it (use email, not the phone or chat). This makes it harder for them to change their mind if you later go on to win without making further mistakes.

Well I've heard it all now LOL.

It's the casinos fault that the player made a bet larger than the 20% allowed because the max bet button is too close to the other buttons. Right.

Out of interest Vinyl....can you please give me an example of a slot that would produce a $110 spin by pressing "max bet". Seems an odd amount don't you think? Looks more like the players SELECTED less lines than the max to me i.e. to increase the variance i.e. to...oh I don't know....try and beat the bonus?

I actually don't think this is a case of accidentally hitting "max bet" at all, especially since the OP didn't even mention it and the bet suggests it wasn't. Seems more likely to be an accidental hit of the "space" bar to me......so now would it be the keyboard makers fault for making the space bar too close to the other keys? Same logic.

Once again, in your haste to blame the casino, you have overlooked obvious and logical facts and information. In other words, you're making stuff up again.

If the player can name the slot, we can know for sure.

 

[petr1]

Betfred should pay the customers and stop making excuses. If you can't make a system that automatically forces bet limits while playing a bonus, you can't expect players to never do mistakes.

This is Betfred abusing their own rules to confiscate winnings.

 

[cheekydancer]

You are right nifty, I must have pressed the spacebar. I'm not blaming anyone else, it's my fault.

However, the point is that is was clearly a mistake (as I corrected it straight away) and most importantly, I didn't win anything from my mistake (so even if it was on purpose, it didn't make any difference). Surely the max bet rule is there to stop people winning big, isn't it? I didn't win big, I didn't win a penny. So no harm done... Surely sommon sense should prevail here, don't you think?

 

[Mouche12]

First of all, when I deposit $1000, I never, ever, take a bonus (50% is not much anyway IMO), unless there are no max bet restrictions and WR are within reason (don't know of such a place, anyone?).

Strictly speaking, the OP broke - and I believe erroneously - the dreaded max bet rule. However, the fact that it involved one single spin, as VWM pointed out, leads me to think that it was an honest mistake. And yes, the OP should have contacted live chat immediately after this happened.

On the other hand, Betfred obviously rather saves 7K than giving a player (and not a low roller at that) the benefit of the doubt. Not a smart move in terms of customer retention and PR... Players reading this thread may think twice when accepting a bonus (especially high rollers) or avoid this casino altogether.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well I've heard it all now LOL.

It's the casinos fault that the player made a bet larger than the 20% allowed because the max bet button is too close to the other buttons. Right.

Out of interest Vinyl....can you please give me an example of a slot that would produce a $110 spin by pressing "max bet". Seems an odd amount don't you think? Looks more like the players SELECTED less lines than the max to me i.e. to increase the variance i.e. to...oh I don't know....try and beat the bonus?

I actually don't think this is a case of accidentally hitting "max bet" at all, especially since the OP didn't even mention it and the bet suggests it wasn't. Seems more likely to be an accidental hit of the "space" bar to me......so now would it be the keyboard makers fault for making the space bar too close to the other keys? Same logic.

Once again, in your haste to blame the casino, you have overlooked obvious and logical facts and information. In other words, you're making stuff up again.

If the player can name the slot, we can know for sure.

It's no ones fault, just a mistake.

The traffic warden in my example is doing nothing wrong, but it's the type of predatory behaviour that alienates the voters from the government.

It's the fault of the industry that they designed this button to be in such close proximity to the spin button. If the button didn't exist, or was in a different part of the screen, such errors would be very hard to make.

Having these undocumented "hot keys" can cause problems too. Space bar is often max bet at Microgaming, but NOWHERE is this documented.

Every typo one sees in this forum is someone hitting the wrong key by mistake. This shows how EASY such an error can be made. At least here it can be corrected, not so easy to pull back a bet.

If Betfred want to alienate players, that's their choice, but they can't complain when this gives them a reputation of taking the maximum profit from the most minor mistakes, and in turn makes players wary of playing there.

You have already made the assumption that the player is trying to pull one over on the casino, which is the same sin in reverse that you accuse me of, which is assuming that casinos don't ever make mistakes, they try to screw players.

If casinos make mistakes, they shouldn't expect to be treated any better than they treat their players who make mistakes.

 

[Nifty29]

You are right nifty, I must have pressed the spacebar. I'm not blaming anyone else, it's my fault.

However, the point is that is was clearly a mistake (as I corrected it straight away) and most importantly, I didn't win anything from my mistake (so even if it was on purpose, it didn't make any difference). Surely the max bet rule is there to stop people winning big, isn't it? I didn't win big, I didn't win a penny. So no harm done... Surely sommon sense should prevail here, don't you think?

That's cool.

My idea of common sense would have been to stop playing immediately, contact the casino, and wait for an answer in writing. Either they would have said "no problem....continue" or they would have said "sorry...you broke the rules. We are going to reset your balance to your starting point". In both cases, you would be better off right now.

The fact that you kept playing tells the casino that you were hoping they wouldn't notice and you'd get away with it....pretty much every casino is going to see things this way. A good operator will just say OK no problem IF you contact them right away.

The other problem with bending rules is that if you let it go for one spin over max, then you really have to let it slide for two, since its only one more than the other guy, etc etc until there may as well not be rules.

Also, 20% max on such big bonuses is actually pretty generous.

 

[cheekydancer]

Now looking back, obviously I should have contacted them.. But I honestly thought as I didn't win anything it wouldn't make any difference.. And you know how it is when you're gambling, you don't want to wait about for things like that.

It wasn't about pulling wool over anyones eyes, as there was nothing to see - I didn't win a penny from the bet.

 

[Sovietsky]

That's cool.

My idea of common sense would have been to stop playing immediately, contact the casino, and wait for an answer in writing. Either they would have said "no problem....continue" or they would have said "sorry...you broke the rules. We are going to reset your balance to your starting point". In both cases, you would be better off right now.

The fact that you kept playing tells the casino that you were hoping they wouldn't notice and you'd get away with it....pretty much every casino is going to see things this way. A good operator will just say OK no problem IF you contact them right away.

The other problem with bending rules is that if you let it go for one spin over max, then you really have to let it slide for two, since its only one more than the other guy, etc etc until there may as well not be rules.

Also, 20% max on such big bonuses is actually pretty generous.

That is also a very good point, then there would be no meaning of having the rule.

I belive it would be better it there would be some sort of a warning box like if you bet over the limit you will lose your bonus or just a warning.

 

[mimi26]

Honestly I really don't understand anyone who takes a bonus, especially on a $1000 deposit, I avoid them like the plague.

However there should defo be a system in place to stop these sort of errors.

OP if I was you I would cut my losses and run, if you can afford to be depositing that sort of money there is only going to be one loser here and that is Betfred, take your custom elsewhere

 

[bvu2011]

The drinking analogy isn't really the same as it's quite easy to mistakenly do a bet. And it's clear I did as I immediately changed my bet and continued with that bet. You can't mistakenly have a drink of wine, like you said.

By the way I'm a girl, not a guy. Maybe that is why I am in tears. Also, I don't win £7,500 every day, although I have won a little bit more a couple of times, and been paid out with no problem.

Your point about 'blockbuster betting', that is my point. The rule is there to stop people winning big. I didn't win. Not a penny. And it was clearly a mistake.

I have mistakenly hit the bet max button, once in tournament mode in which I won and once in real in which I lost. So sorry this has happened with real money, it doesn't make anyone feel good. And just for the record, I do not drink. I have mistakenly clicked many wrong things in my many years of using computer technology. Thank god for Microsoft Office Word when I was typing up research papers. It is inevitable to make at least one, two, or three mistakes when typing 30-40 page research papers. And as far as online gambling and using a mouse etc. It can happen just as well. So sorry!

 

[Nifty29]

It's no ones fault, just a mistake.

The traffic warden in my example is doing nothing wrong, but it's the type of predatory behaviour that alienates the voters from the government.

It's the fault of the industry that they designed this button to be in such close proximity to the spin button. If the button didn't exist, or was in a different part of the screen, such errors would be very hard to make.

Having these undocumented "hot keys" can cause problems too. Space bar is often max bet at Microgaming, but NOWHERE is this documented.

Every typo one sees in this forum is someone hitting the wrong key by mistake. This shows how EASY such an error can be made. At least here it can be corrected, not so easy to pull back a bet.

If Betfred want to alienate players, that's their choice, but they can't complain when this gives them a reputation of taking the maximum profit from the most minor mistakes, and in turn makes players wary of playing there.

You have already made the assumption that the player is trying to pull one over on the casino, which is the same sin in reverse that you accuse me of, which is assuming that casinos don't ever make mistakes, they try to screw players.

If casinos make mistakes, they shouldn't expect to be treated any better than they treat their players who make mistakes.

Now you're comparing "accidental" max bet spins (which it appears it WASN'T hence you were wrong) with typos in a forum post? Really?? Really???

See, this is the point where you could show everyone some humility and show that you actually listen and appreciate the points made by others, and admit errors. Instead, you push the argument off on another tangent hoping to get something right that way. Trouble is, these tangents are so way off and irrelevant they come across as desperate.

The only "assumption" I made is that the player MIGHT (notice that word) have been employing advantage play tactics by reducing lines and increasing bet per line. I based this assessment (not an assumption as I didn't state that it WAS that way just that it MIGHT be) on the odd bet amount that AFAIK can't be achieved by pressing "max bet", but rather only by having the lines already decreased and hitting the space bar (later confirmed by OP).

Its a long long way from launching into a multi-paragraph rant about how the OP was an innocent victim of the "deliberate max bet button placement conspiracy" involving all casino software providers working together to rob players of their winnings. Its especially way off considering the OP didn't actually hit max bet in the first place.

In other words, you're only focused on what (you think) the casino has done to allow a situation to occur, rather than all the information provided. I could see, and have seen, your detection and reasoning skills used in an impartial way producing some highly accurate, logical and informative posts. Unfortunately, all I see these days is you resorting to ridiculous and ill-considered "expose's" that almost exclusively involves ragging on operators for the tiniest and most irrelevant and unreasonable things, rather than accepting and acknowledging both that there are two sides to a coin, and that others do make valid points that often contradict your own.

I used to read every word of yours for years vinyl. I admired your objectivity and your "each case on its merits" attitude. Now, its just like reading any old "casinos are evil" poster. Its a damn shame.

Anyway, I'm not going to say any more on this from now on, as I don't want to be accused of personal agendas etc.

 

[Mouche12]

I have mistakenly hit the bet max button, once in tournament mode in which I won and once in real in which I lost. So sorry this has happened with real money, it doesn't make anyone feel good. And just for the record, I do not drink. I have mistakenly clicked many wrong things in my many years of using computer technology. Thank god for Microsoft Office Word when I was typing up research papers. It is inevitable to make at least one, two, or three mistakes when typing 30-40 page research papers. And as far as online gambling and using a mouse etc. It can happen just as well. So sorry!

I agree, a mistake can easily be made - and casinos should also take this into consideration. BTW, I did not know that pressing the space bar when playing MG slots results in max bet... pfff, one could easily slip one's finger and **ooops** your (7K) winnings are down the drain.

Nifty, what do you consider an advantage player? Someone who deposits no less than one thousand, claims a merely 50% bonus, and then makes one single unfortunate bet?

 

[Nifty29]

I agree, a mistake can easily be made - and casinos should also take this into consideration. BTW, I did not know that pressing the space bar when playing MG slots results in max bet... pfff, one could easily slip one's finger and **ooops** your (7K) winnings are down the drain.

Nifty, what do you consider an advantage player? Someone who deposits no less than one thousand, claims a merely 50% bonus, and then makes one single unfortunate bet?

Of course a mistake can easily be made. It is why reputable operators WILL let it slide or come to some reasonable agreement IF you report the mistake AT THE TIME. If you don't, it appears to the operator like either it was deliberate, or the player is trying to "get away with it". I'm not saying that IS what the player is doing (which I hope answers the OP last question)...I'm saying that is what the CASINO will most likely think. Whether the bet is a loser or a winner is irrelevant, as the player doesn't know this beforehand. The worst thing that can happen when reporting it is that the casino resets your balance, which is far better than losing $7.5k.

Nobody has done anything "wrong" per se in this case. The player accidentally (AFAWK) pressed the space bar and made a bet over 20% (they did NOT press MAX BET as others have decided), which contravened the bonus rules, and the casino enforced those rules.

The question is.....who is ultimately responsible for the "mistake" happening? Logically, the only party that caused it to occur is the PLAYER. The casino did absolutely NOTHING to force the player to bet over 20%, nor "make" them press the space bar. In this kind of case, the responsibility must be borne by the party "at fault" i.e. in this case the player. We all make mistakes at various times in our lives, and we have to bear the consequences of those mistakes. We make decisions, like the OP did in not stopping play, and we have to live with the results. We cannot go around expecting everyone else to accept responsibility for OUR errors, and that includes businesses.

@Mouche

You didn't read the thread properly.

The player did NOT press "max bet", nor did the space bar initiate "max bet". The bet amount was $110, which it appears is LESS than max lines. The space bar just spins the reels at whatever setting they are on at the time i.e. if you currently have 5 lines selected at .50c per line on a 20 line slot, pressing the space bar DOES NOT make the slot spin 20 lines @ .50c...it just spins at the 5 lines @ .50c. As the OP states, they were in the midst of "changing bets" on the slot, so obviously they had not quite finished deselecting/selecting lines at that moment. We need to get this erroneous idea of "accidental max bet" out of our heads....and this is the problem when some people state something as fact when it clearly is NOT.

Whether someone is an advantage player or not has nothing to do with "single unfortunate bets", nor whether they deposit $1000 for a $500 bonus. You're trying to relate things that are unrelated.

The reason I mentioned advantage play is that some APs take a bonus and make bets at or just below the max allowed bet, and often use less lines at higher per-line bets to increase the variance i.e. when they hit something nice it will be REALLY nice. People who do this do the math beforehand (the smart ones do anyway) and work out whether doing so produces a positive expected value (EV+) i.e. they work out, based on allowed games and % contribution of those games, bonus % amount, total WR, and bonus cashability etc whether the bonus is worth taking, then work out the best way to achieve a positive outcome. Some play the largest possible bets to obtain a large balance, and then "grind" out on minimum spins to preserve as much of their bankroll as possible. Whilst this does result in more cashouts, it does not necessarily produce a higher profit in the long term, as the less spins you make, the less you expose your bankroll to the house edge.

Anyway, as I said, being an AP has nothing to do with "unfortunate bets/mistakes", save perhaps that APs play things pretty close to the edge so one might expect more "mistakes" to occur in such circumstances. The smart APs know this, and take every possible precaution to stop it from happening, but also know if it DOES occur, it is a "cost of doing business" that most will take in their stride, as making a commotion every time just attracts more attention to what they're doing.

 

[Mouche12]

I know that the space bar did not play a role in this scenario, was merely responding to VWM pointing this out for MG games. Fair enough what you said. I think though that the casino should give the OP the benefit of the doubt.

I partly disagree with your take on "advantage players". An advantage player would most certainly not by mistake make one single bet that exceeds the max bet size for a given bonus and I think a 50% bonus on such a large deposit is not much of an advantage either.

 

[cheekydancer]

I think it is relevent if I won or not on the bet. If I was trying to 'get away with it' I would be stopping when I won from the bet. I wouldn't lose, then change my bet to be within the terms, I'd continue to bet until I won.

The point I am making is that there is a reason for the max bet rule. It's to stop players winning big, which I didn't

 

[chuchu59]

The drinking analogy isn't really the same as it's quite easy to mistakenly do a bet. And it's clear I did as I immediately changed my bet and continued with that bet. You can't mistakenly have a drink of wine, like you said.

By the way I'm a girl, not a guy. Maybe that is why I am in tears. Also, I don't win £7,500 every day, although I have won a little bit more a couple of times, and been paid out with no problem.

Your point about 'blockbuster betting', that is my point. The rule is there to stop people winning big. I didn't win. Not a penny. And it was clearly a mistake.

You didn't win a penny on that spin but if the term is there they will pounce on it. What does seem strange is the size of the bet ie 110. Was the slot a 20-liner, 30-liner or something else? To bet 110 its more likely you are betting 22 lines at $ 5 per line or maybe 11 lines at $10 per line. That does mean you adjusted the number of lines, albeit accidentally. Then it is not the casino at fault but your rather your accidental pressing on the button adjusting the lines. Of course it could be something else. What we need to look into is how the single spin of $110 occurred. Should it be a technical fault then its a software problem and the casino cannot fault you for it.

So first you need to tell us which slot it is and then let members who have access to Playtech software air their views.

 

[cheekydancer]

Actually is wasn't £110.. It may have been £120, I'll have to check. I increased the coin value and was in the process of reducing the amount of coins when it spun.

 

[Blathaon]

You may have answered this already. Have you contacted Aaron the Betfred rep here at CM ?

sometimes you may be unlucky with the person who looks at your case, i had trouble getting verified there sometime ago. Turned out that some guy at the security department was being difficult.

I do agree with Nifty that rules are rules even if they seem unreasonable, you did agree to them. And you should have stopped playing immediately and contacted support.

But what is done is done, so i would advise you to contact the Betfred rep and ask him to look into it.

 

[chayton]

I have to say I'm in agreement with Nifty on this one, since you noticed when it happened, you should have stopped playing and asked support - Betfred has live chat so there wouldn't have been a long delay.

Sucks though. Did they give you your deposit back?

 

[cheekydancer]

Ok thanks, I've sent him a PM. Hopefully he's reasonable and can see common sense. Thanks

 

[Nifty29]

I know that the space bar did not play a role in this scenario, was merely responding to VWM pointing this out for MG games. Fair enough what you said. I think though that the casino should give the OP the benefit of the doubt.

I partly disagree with your take on "advantage players". An advantage player would most certainly not by mistake make one single bet that exceeds the max bet size for a given bonus and I think a 50% bonus on such a large deposit is not much of an advantage either.

OK. Ill say it more more time because you didn't read it the first time

The space bar, depending on the software, and whether hotkeys are enabled, USUALLY operates as a SPIN button. VWM was banging on about MAX BET buttons and it was the casinos fault because they "deliberately put it near the spin button" presumably to "trick" people like the OP.....the OP broke the terms with a NON maxbet spin,so as usual, it is irrelevant and erroneous. He was looking for a reason to blame the casino and excuse the player, and it backfired.

Its not my "take" on APs. It's what they DO. Anyone is liable to make a mistake, and APs are no different. The distinction is that, because they often sail very close to the wind, their mistakes tend to break the rules more easily and more often.

I did NOT say that APs deliberately make bets over the max limit to get more advantage or whatever it is you're saying that I supposedly said.....obviously that would be stupid, and smart APs (which is most) are not stupid.

I also did NOT say that the OP WAS trying to "cover up"....I said that is what the CASINO will think. Big difference.

Honestly, I wish people would READ stuff before they go off arguing against stuff that wasn't even said in the first place.

If the CASINO wants to let it slide....great! It doesn't seem deliberate, so fair enough. My point is that they're not obliged to, and shouldn't be bagged if they don't.

It seems the same people want every rule in the THEIR favour to be followed to the letter, but when it is NOT in their favour they want exceptions to be made. Its actually quite childish.

 

[chuchu59]

Ok thanks, I've sent him a PM. Hopefully he's reasonable and can see common sense. Thanks

It doesn't matter as to whether he's reasonable or not. Its up to casino management to decide whether its worth the bad publicity it could possibly generate against the amount involved. The way I see it unless its a technical fault on the software's part you are SOL. They wont pay you as they have a much stronger hand than you. This is especially so when you did not inform support of the error immediately. For 7500 I wont care a damn about your ravings and rants if you had pressed the wrong buttons and contravened the bonus terms. Remember your intentions can only be guessed. They cant be proven.

 

[cheekydancer]

I have to disagree and say my intentions can be clearly seen. Why else would I change the bet straight away?

Also, regardless of my intentions, the reason for the rule is to stop players winning big from those bets, which I didn't do. The fundemental issue they are trying to stop didn't happen, although techincally I did break the rule. All I am saying is for them to look at the real problem they are trying to stop and use common sense.

I've played at Bet at Eu before and they have the right approach - increase the wagering by 10 times the amount of any wins obtained from overbetting. Problem solved.

 

[Nifty29]

I think it is relevent if I won or not on the bet. If I was trying to 'get away with it' I would be stopping when I won from the bet. I wouldn't lose, then change my bet to be within the terms, I'd continue to bet until I won.

The point I am making is that there is a reason for the max bet rule. It's to stop players winning big, which I didn't

Its to stop APs placing huge bets to supersize their bankroll and then grinding out the remaining WR.

Whether the bet actually won or not is irrelevant insofar as the terms are concerned I.e. it doesn't state "WINNING bets over 20% are not permitted". The reality is that you COULD have won....you didn't know it was a losing bet until after you made it.

What if you had won your bet back, or won half of it back, or even won $50 over your bet? Judging by your actions and point of view, I'd say its quite possible you would have continued on thinking "oh well it was only $xxx it didn't make much difference"...and you would be in the same pickle you are now. Hence, the fact that it was a losing bet IS irrelevant.

What if you had won $5000 or something? I wonder. Did you have a point in mind at which you would stop and contact support? Again, based on your posts thus far, its reasonable to assume that you would have said to yourself "well its only one bet....they can always just take that $5000 back...ill just keep playing".

The more one thinks about it logically, the less relevant the outcome of the bet becomes.

 

[cheekydancer]

Honestly, if I had won anything, I would have contacted support 100%. It's only because I lost I just considered it irrelevant and an obvious mistake.

 

[Nifty29]

I have to disagree and say my intentions can be clearly seen. Why else would I change the bet straight away?

Also, regardless of my intentions, the reason for the rule is to stop players winning big from those bets, which I didn't do. The fundemental issue they are trying to stop didn't happen, although techincally I did break the rule. All I am saying is for them to look at the real problem they are trying to stop and use common sense.

I've played at Bet at Eu before and they have the right approach - increase the wagering by 10 times the amount of any wins obtained from overbetting. Problem solved.

Given you were playing at BETFRED not somewhere else,did you READ what would happen if you DID "overbet"? If so,you would know the consequences. My guess is that you didn't, and just expected them to be the same.

The fact you admit you've done it before at other casinos suggests that you are an AP, in which I case I have no sympathy for you, as you play bonuses "on the edge" and should expect to occasionally fall over. What's even more interesting is that you've been caught breaching a term that only exists at online casinos because of APs like yourself.

Oh the irony.

 

[chuchu59]

Honestly, if I had won anything, I would have contacted support 100%. It's only because I lost I just considered it irrelevant and an obvious mistake.

If you made an honest mistake you contact support right away. You are trying to make up an excuse for not contacting support by saying you didn't win on the spin. Where in the terms does it say you void the terms only when you win on bets exceeding 20% of the bonus? Trust me, you are possibly chasing a lost cause. I doubt whether even an operation like 32RED would allow this.

 

[cheekydancer]

I'm sorry Nifty but now you are quoting things that were never said.

I never said I had played at Bet at EU, let alone break their terms. I just said I was aware of their term, which is what you encourage people to do, looking at some of your posts.

You have come to the conclusion that I am somehow an 'AP' and you don't have sympathy for me. Another assumption, which you have discouraged in this thread.

Edit: Ok I did say I had played there, but I honestly can't remember if I did now. I DID read their terms though, and I definitely didn't break any of them.

 

[Nifty29]

I'm sorry Nifty but now you are quoting things that were never said.

I never said I had played at Bet at EU, let alone break their terms. I just said I was aware of their term, which is what you encourage people to do, looking at some of your posts.

You have come to the conclusion that I am somehow an 'AP' and you don't have sympathy for me. Another assumption, which you have discouraged in this thread.

Edit: Ok I did say I had played there, but I honestly can't remember if I did now. I DID read their terms though, and I definitely didn't break any of them.

I apologise for saying you had "done it before". It was a mistake on my behalf.

However, based on your playing style and points of view, I'll stick with my opinion that you are an advantage player.....nothing particularly wrong with that in itself, except that APs are the reason ALL of us have to read through and abide by draconian amounts and types of rules i.e. because APs spend day and night looking for loopholes and ways to exploit them. If APs/you stick by the rules and win....awesome...good for you....but don't expect everyone is going to start sobbing and saying "oh that poor player" when you make a mistake in your calculations or "accidentally" bet too big.

The problem that APs can run into....and you have done it here....is that they play large coin values on low numbers of lines to increase the variance etc and try to beat the bonus, which leaves themselves open to "accidents".

For example, if an average Joe is playing a 30 line slot 30 lines at 5c coin value @1 coin per line ($1.50), and hits max bet by accident, the spin will be $15 (30x 5c x 10 coins per line) and they will almost never fall foul of the bonus terms.

However, an AP playing 15 lines on the same slot at 50c coin value @10 coins per line ($75 per spin) to stay under the max limit, and hits max bet by accident, will end up with a $150 spin which will almost always break the terms.

So, you can see why there is an inherent danger in that kind of play (which is very common amongst APs). Whether you actually ARE what I would call an AP or not, that kind of play increases your risk or breaking the rules by a huge margin....but I am sure you know this already.

IMO, you knowingly take the risk, which you did by playing close to the "line", then you take the consequences when something goes wrong. Accept it was down to you one way or another, and move on. After all, it was only 7.5 x your deposit. I wonder if there would be as many people supporting you, or even if you would have bothered posting, if you had deposited $20 and you were out $140. I doubt it. The amount should not matter.....if you're going to deposit $1000 at a time, make sure you take precautions if you can't afford to lose it due to "accidents". Or better still, at that other place where they make you wager 10x the extra bet or whatever. I believe 32Red does something similar but it is 100x your total winnings, which is better than losing the lot...but you made the choice to play somewhere that doesn't have such rules, and that is YOUR problem.

"Distraught and in tears"?. Please.

 

[cheekydancer]

Trust me Nifty I am extremely upset. I'm not skint, but £6.5k taken away from me is upsetting.. I could have gone on an amazing holiday with that... the most upsetting part is I know this was avoidable..

It seems that anyone could be an 'AP' sometimes when they just happen to bet a certain way, and other times they are not. Anyway, the point is not really relevent to the issue. I like to take bonuses if they are offered and I like to bet big. Does that make me an AP? I've never had any problems before at casinos. I am even a VIP at BoylesCasino.

 

[Balthazar]

Normally I feel bad when someone gets caught by a predatory term but in your case OP it's pretty hard because someone who plays slots @ $100/spin is either very wealthy, very stupid or a bonus abuser.

 

[cheekydancer]

What should I have been betting? Thought it was standard to bet around 5-10% of your balance?

 

[chuchu59]

Normally I feel bad when someone gets caught by a predatory term but in your case OP it's pretty hard because someone who plays slots @ $100/spin is either very wealthy, very stupid or a bonus abuser.

It was in sterling pounds which makes it even more astonishing. That would equate to more than $150 per spin.

 

[mrmark21]

What should I have been betting? Thought it was standard to bet around 5-10% of your balance?

Standard? Hardly. More like 1-2% of you're balance.

I encountered a similar issue at Inetbet where they decided to confiscate all my winnings due to an obvious mistake. I of course dont play there anymore. You gave an online casino a reason to confiscate youre winnings when you accidentally (possibly) broke the T&Cs.

I'm hoping youre next spin is a good one

 

[Osloking]

What should I have been betting? Thought it was standard to bet around 5-10% of your balance?

5-10% per spin is almost suicidal for the bankroll mind you but i wouldn't bet 10% even if i played single deck black jack.

But in same time i have seen many people who don't know how to play, play max bet because "you can win the maximum prize"

for more "advanced" slot players 0.50 - 3% of bankroll is normal, some people raise bet after few good hits to see if its hit more.

And for your case i would talk to betfred before saying too much here. Hope both part come in agreement.

and for the max bet rule, i have also come across it on playtech once, since they have max bet at default every time i start new game. They should really block accepting bet if they have rules that can make these kind of situation and set the slot at max line minimum bet.

GL!

 

[Mouche12]

OK. Ill say it more more time because you didn't read it the first time

The space bar, depending on the software, and whether hotkeys are enabled, USUALLY operates as a SPIN button. VWM was banging on about MAX BET buttons and it was the casinos fault because they "deliberately put it near the spin button" presumably to "trick" people like the OP.....the OP broke the terms with a NON maxbet spin,so as usual, it is irrelevant and erroneous. He was looking for a reason to blame the casino and excuse the player, and it backfired.

Its not my "take" on APs. It's what they DO. Anyone is liable to make a mistake, and APs are no different. The distinction is that, because they often sail very close to the wind, their mistakes tend to break the rules more easily and more often.

I did NOT say that APs deliberately make bets over the max limit to get more advantage or whatever it is you're saying that I supposedly said.....obviously that would be stupid, and smart APs (which is most) are not stupid.

I also did NOT say that the OP WAS trying to "cover up"....I said that is what the CASINO will think. Big difference.

Honestly, I wish people would READ stuff before they go off arguing against stuff that wasn't even said in the first place.

If the CASINO wants to let it slide....great! It doesn't seem deliberate, so fair enough. My point is that they're not obliged to, and shouldn't be bagged if they don't.

It seems the same people want every rule in the THEIR favour to be followed to the letter, but when it is NOT in their favour they want exceptions to be made. Its actually quite childish.

I read between your lines

 

[kauphy]

The drinking analogy isn't really the same as it's quite easy to mistakenly do a bet. And it's clear I did as I immediately changed my bet and continued with that bet. You can't mistakenly have a drink of wine, like you said.

By the way I'm a girl, not a guy. Maybe that is why I am in tears. Also, I don't win £7,500 every day, although I have won a little bit more a couple of times, and been paid out with no problem.

Your point about 'blockbuster betting', that is my point. The rule is there to stop people winning big. I didn't win. Not a penny. And it was clearly a mistake.

i feel for you i have done this before too and i stopped play right then and there and went to live chat and told them what happen.

they told me not to worry about it and go ahead and play i saved the chat and went back to playing.

but i think caz i went right to live chat before i played anymore they could see it was by mistake and let it go.

good luck hope you get paid. the people who had done this before know how you feel and know its very easy to do so sorry.

 

[petr1]

Ridiculous

These rules aren't OK. If a casino accepts your bet, why the hell should they have a right to confiscate your winnings? If casino wants to limit your bet size, then build a damn system that limits it automatically. You can't expect players always to notice that they might be soon going over the max bet.

If the casino can't limit the bet size automatically then at least have some f'in common sense. If one bet goes slightly above the limit, you can't seriously confiscate that huge amount.

Imagine a land casino confiscating your winnings after making a too large bet, even though they accepted the bet in the first place. Just because we are playing online, doesn't mean they should be allowed to do that.

 

[Blathaon]

These rules aren't OK. If a casino accepts your bet, why the hell should they have a right to confiscate your winnings? If casino wants to limit your bet size, then build a damn system that limits it automatically. You can't expect players always to notice that they might be soon going over the max bet.

If the casino can't limit the bet size automatically then at least have some f'in common sense. If one bet goes slightly above the limit, you can't seriously confiscate that huge amount.

Imagine a land casino confiscating your winnings after making a too large bet, even though they accepted the bet in the first place. Just because we are playing online, doesn't mean they should be allowed to do that.

It's not like they make these rules up after the fact.
You have to agree to the terms when you open an account, and when you accept a bonus you agree to the bonus terms and conditions.

It is a voluntary agreement, when you accept the bonus you agree to whatever they have put in the terms and conditions. If you do not like them then do not play there, It's quite simple.

 

[petr1]

It's not like they make these rules up after the fact.
You have to agree to the terms when you open an account, and when you accept a bonus you agree to the bonus terms and conditions.

It is a voluntary agreement, when you accept the bonus you agree to whatever they have put in the terms and conditions. If you do not like them then do not play there, It's quite simple.

In a perfect world everyone would read the T&Cs but I'm afraid many, if not most don't read them at all. By reading this you accept that I own you until you die. I'm not a lawyer but I could imagine that they can't legally do whatever they want by writing it to the terms and conditions. Confiscating money is IMO on the grey area. Confiscating £7500 due to single bet even though the casino accepted the bet?