Betfair Bonus Fiasco

[parpol]

This is the fourth casino removed in the past couple of weeks due to being non-communicative.

What are the other three?

 

[Casinomeister]

Betfair has been removed from the Accredited section.

I am extremely dismayed on how Betfair has handled this situation. Actually, it's rather shameful and disrespects all casinos listed in the Accredited section.

This is the fourth casino removed in the past couple of weeks due to being non-communicative.

Looks like we've made quite a bit of progress in a short period of time.

I was contacted by Betfair who will be assigning another casino rep to the forum. He has expressed that they should have been more communicative over this entire mess. I have been assured that each complaint will be reviewed and that those accounts that have been locked so far are being audited at the moment.

Sort of reminds me of the Fortune Lounge bonus fiasco some years ago.

As long as they maintain their communicativeness and they take care of each player issue individually and fairly, they will remain accredited.

What are the other three?

Bwin, Villento, Rich Reels Casino.

 

[threescatters]

Wow if this place can make betfair see sense over this than that is just awesome. What about accounts that are no longer locked but had withdrawls reversed and winnings removed? No funny business mind im talking fair play that stuck to the terms and conditions...Are they reviewing those ones also?

 

[hitobito2005]

Good news, I only hope their definition of "fair" does not include invoking the FU term (Standard T&Cs number 22) when no terms have been broken.

 

[Casinomeister]

Wow if this place can make betfair see sense over this than that is just awesome. What about accounts that are no longer locked but had withdrawls reversed and winnings removed? No funny business mind im talking fair play that stuck to the terms and conditions...Are they reviewing those ones also?

Good news, I only hope their definition of "fair" does not include invoking the FU term (Standard T&Cs number 22) when no terms have been broken.

The main thing is that Betfair is auditing each and every account. If terms and conditions haven't been broken, then the player should be paid. I believe that the massive lock-down and form letter email was a knee-jerk reaction to the results of a badly written promo. I anticipate that all players will be dealt with in a fair manner. It may take some time - but the ball is rolling.

 

[spoonboy]

This is great news, thanks.
However does this mean that each player now needs to PAB because Betfair told me (and from what I've read plenty of other players) "we do now consider this matter closed, and shall not enter into any further correspondence in connection with it." So they won't respond to my emails about this matter.
For info, in my case they actually paid out but then put my Betfair balance to a negative balance and are demanding I deposit to clear the negative balance.

 

[Casinomeister]

This is great news, thanks.
However does this mean that each player now needs to PAB because Betfair told me (and from what I've read plenty of other players) "we do now consider this matter closed, and shall not enter into any further correspondence in connection with it." So they won't respond to my emails about this matter.
For info, in my case they actually paid out but then put my Betfair balance to a negative balance and are demanding I deposit to clear the negative balance.

What you may want to do is contact the casino rep here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Let him know that you've contacted Betfair's support inquiring them of your account and you'd like to have it followed up. It's the beginning of a weekend so you may need to wait until Monday, but at least we have a way to deal with this now.

 

[Rhyzz]

It's a shame those people who don't know about this site won't get their accounts reviewed...

 

[Jufo]

Could the moderators change the title of the thread so that all affected players would have easier time finding this thread? Originally I started the thread about Hitler video but it ended up being the main thread about this issue, which was never my intention.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is great news, thanks.
However does this mean that each player now needs to PAB because Betfair told me (and from what I've read plenty of other players) "we do now consider this matter closed, and shall not enter into any further correspondence in connection with it." So they won't respond to my emails about this matter.
For info, in my case they actually paid out but then put my Betfair balance to a negative balance and are demanding I deposit to clear the negative balance.

Well, I am sure YOU have some kind of "F U clause" that prohibits you from making further deposits into a casino that has tried to screw you over.

The fact that they paid players, and THEN decided to void the winnings, makes it look like there were NO actual violations of terms, but more of a case of them realising that "everybody was winning", discovering the flawed nature of the promotion, and deciding that merely to participate in a flawed promotion was itself "a violation of the standard terms".

I get the impression that SOME players were not satisfied with the more or less guaranteed profit from the low 10x WR, and DID seek to screw every cent out of this promo by "betting opposites" on French roulette, and grinding out the WR more or less exactly.
This is one tactic that DOES fall foul of even the generalised "irregular playing patterns" rule, as I am sure no-one walks into a B & M, puts $500 on Red, and $500 on black, without everybody at the table thinking WTF

This is the second case I have seen where a player has had such levels of confiscation that their balance has gone negative. The other made no mention of this being due to having already cashed out and "locked" the withdrawal from being reversed by Betfair.

I see it's OK for a CASINO in this situation to threaten and even "blackmail" a player into giving back a paid withdrawal, yet it is NOT OK for a PLAYER to exert this type of pressure on a casino that has confiscated a payout.
We also know that such threats do NOT impress casinos, and make them even MORE likely to stick to not paying. Casinos might consider that the opposite is also true, threaten a player with "recovery action" when they have been paid, and THEN deemed to have been "cheating", and said player is not only LESS likely to see the casino's side, but also LESS likely to give the money back through future deposits and play. Worse, they are MORE likely to vent in public if threatened with "recovery action" after being paid (and get more sympathy), as opposed to merely being "bonus banned" for the manner of play that won them the money in the first place.

Had Betfair paid except in CLEAR cases of violation, and then "bonus banned" all the rest who "played too smart" with a flawed promotion, their would have been a fuss, but nowhere near as bad as THIS one has turned out to be, and they would STILL have their reputation for fairness intact.

I also find it interesting that Max could get nowhere, but removal from the accredited section got their attention pretty damn quickly, and the old rep has been "posted out of harm's way" and replaced by a new one willing to communicate and receive PABs. I very much doubt the OLD rep made his original statement off his own bat, but was following what was then the "company line" (i.e. he was TOLD to say and do what he did by a higher power in the company), one quickly "U turned" upon when they realised what the repercussions of this were.

 

[thelawnet]

The main thing is that Betfair is auditing each and every account. If terms and conditions haven't been broken, then the player should be paid. I believe that the massive lock-down and form letter email was a knee-jerk reaction to the results of a badly written promo. I anticipate that all players will be dealt with in a fair manner. It may take some time - but the ball is rolling.

They haven't given that impression.

Email received Monday 22 November 2010:

We have now had the opportunity to review your account activity in relation to our recent ‘Happy Hour’ promotion, and we thank you for your patience during that time.

All bonus funds and winnings associated with your participation in the ‘Happy Hour’ promotion, together with all of your deposited funds, are now in your account and ready for you to use either to play in the Casino or to withdraw at your leisure.

We apologise if the suspension of your account has caused you any inconvenience, but are happy to have the situation resolved and to make your funds available to you again.

When I replied pointing out that they had in fact not done this, they replied

Kindly note that your main account shows you have been credited accordingly on the 19th of November. We hope therefore this issue has now been resolved.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

I clarified that my account was still well short of the correct balance, and their reply was:

We refer to our e-mail to you of 22nd November 2010, which explains our final decision in this matter.

You do have the option of contacting the Lotteries and Gaming Authority in Malta if you would like to take this matter further.

I would also like to remind you that Betfair shall not enter into any further correspondence with you, and we now consider this matter closed.

So they promised to pay me in full and they subsequently refused to discuss the fact that they manifestly haven't.

Obviously if they have now changed their tune that's good, but as of Tuesday 23rd November, 9 days after the promotion, they told me they would ignore further emails from me.

 

[thelawnet]

I also find it interesting that Max could get nowhere, but removal from the accredited section got their attention pretty damn quickly, and the old rep has been "posted out of harm's way" and replaced by a new one willing to communicate and receive PABs. I very much doubt the OLD rep made his original statement off his own bat, but was following what was then the "company line" (i.e. he was TOLD to say and do what he did by a higher power in the company), one quickly "U turned" upon when they realised what the repercussions of this were.

I did advise them of these repercussions in my original email to them:

This matter can be resolved in two ways:
1. You honour the ‘unlimited’ promotion you advertised OR
2. You refuse to honour it, and some or all of the following from the players you have abused is likely to be forthcoming:
a. Legal action
b. Major adverse media coverage of this matter resulting to serious damage to goodwill
c. Complaints to regulators in all relevant jurisdictions
d. Complaints to MPs, MEPs, and other relevant political figures
e. Damage to Betfair’s reputation more generally as it becomes widely known that you do not honour bets

I suggest that option 1 is likely to follow option 2 in any case, so I would strongly recommend that you choose option 1 in the first instance, to save my time and yours, and to save the damage to your reputation that’s certain to ensue.

I would recommend that you reconsider your decision to seize funds and respond to that post reminding that you are in fact a reputable FTSE-250 firm with a £1.6 billion market capitalisation, and not some shady Costa Rican outfit that routinely steals players’ funds, and that accordingly ‘ALL PLAYERS WILL BE PAID IN FULL’. The alternative to that is one I’ve witnessed before, and it will involve months and years of your name being dragged through the mud as a result of your unjustifiable business decision not to pay players in order to boost your profits.

Again, short route or long route is your choice, but personally I’d suggest the short route, as while I’m entirely willing to pursue this matter as necessary, I in fact do have better things to do, so would be very grateful if you would simply put the money back in my account and we can all move on.

They didn't pay attention to my advice it seems, because the corporate line was clearly 'here's the deal, now go away, we're not answering your questions'. As you say this was a management decision, certainly nothing to do with the betfair rep here, because it's been echoed in emails from support that are in no way connected to Casinomeister.

 

[GrandMaster]

What I would like to know how this promotion got approved. Did the promotion manager have complete power to design any promotion he liked, even it had the potential to bankrupt the casino? Or did higher levels of management approve it without anyone noticing how easily it could be exploited even without resorting to abusive strategies like covering all numbers in roulette?

 

[vinylweatherman]

They haven't given that impression.

Email received Monday 22 November 2010:



When I replied pointing out that they had in fact not done this, they replied



I clarified that my account was still well short of the correct balance, and their reply was:



So they promised to pay me in full and they subsequently refused to discuss the fact that they manifestly haven't.

Obviously if they have now changed their tune that's good, but as of Tuesday 23rd November, 9 days after the promotion, they told me they would ignore further emails from me.

So, they say you can KEEP EVERYTHING, bonuses and winnings. WTF is there for them to hide from? WTF is there to "refer to the LGA". They must know DAMN WELL they have offered you a PARTIAL settlement, not the FULL balance you had when the account was suspended. Despite this, they are trying to make out they have returned EVERYTHING to your account.

Surely this is a matter of record on your account history. If the balance when they suspended your account is higher than when it is released back to you, then they have confiscated SOME of the money, but are not prepared to admit what they have done.

To illustrate: 3 - 3 =0
I give you back 2 and tell you "I have given you back everything I took".
Clearly you started with 3, and now I have 2. I am trying to convnince you that 2=3, and naturally you are having none of it. You tell me that 2 is NOT equal to 3, and this should be clear to everyone. They then say, yes 2 IS the same as 3, this is final, I am not going to discuss this further.

Don't they realise how STUPID this makes them look. Firstly, they show they can't add up when designing the promotion, NOW they can't add up even when they are NOT confiscating ANYTHING from a player.

My teacher would have none of it either. He would say "show your working out, you get no marks just for writing down the answer".

There is a glimmer of hope, the PAB avenue has been reopened. PAB about their maths. If they are saying they have not made any adjustments to your account, then NO funds should be missing. This will become obvious to Max and CM when they review the records during a PAB. If they HAVE decided to void a few of your games, they are rather silly thinking they can LIE about this given how easy this is to check from balance records alone.

It looks like they are "running around like headless chickens" up there, compounding the initial issue with one blunder after another.

 

[jetset]

The handling of this affair seems to be going from bad to worse; it really needs a senior member of Betfair corporate management to take control and sort it out before Betfair's reputation is further damaged.

As Grandmaster points out, it's incredible that a promotional blunder like this could have made it through the pre-release management channel....and now a bad situation is being exacerbated by really questionable management decisions.

 

[Casinomeister]

It's a shame those people who don't know about this site won't get their accounts reviewed...

I don't think Casinomeister members will have exclusive rights for being audited. I think it's for everyone

Could the moderators change the title of the thread so that all affected players would have easier time finding this thread? Originally I started the thread about Hitler video but it ended up being the main thread about this issue, which was never my intention.

Done

 

[bigbadken]

Great news this, I have sent a PM :notworthy

 

[thelawnet]

So, they say you can KEEP EVERYTHING, bonuses and winnings. WTF is there for them to hide from? WTF is there to "refer to the LGA". They must know DAMN WELL they have offered you a PARTIAL settlement, not the FULL balance you had when the account was suspended. Despite this, they are trying to make out they have returned EVERYTHING to your account.

To be honest I don't think they know what they are doing.

What happened was this.

• During promo - they took away my bonuses, then lied when I called them to ask what was happening ('technical problem')
• After promo - they took away my winnings and 95% of my deposit.
• I threatened to report them to the police for stealing my money
• They then returned my deposit but not my winnings (including winnings I had made before the promo began) or my bonuses.
• They then sent me an email saying I had had my deposit + bonus + winnings returned.

Surely this is a matter of record on your account history. If the balance when they suspended your account is higher than when it is released back to you, then they have confiscated SOME of the money, but are not prepared to admit what they have done.

Well yeah it was pretty obvious, because the account statement shows they took away one amount and then added back a smaller amount.

 

[GOCC]

The handling of this affair seems to be going from bad to worse; it really needs a senior member of Betfair corporate management to take control and sort it out before Betfair's reputation is further damaged.

As Grandmaster points out, it's incredible that a promotional blunder like this could have made it through the pre-release management channel....and now a bad situation is being exacerbated by really questionable management decisions.

I was told by Betfair that 5 people are needed to sign the bonus off. Unreal

 

[spitfire]

Hi all!

I've been trying to send the Betfair Representative a private message, but it isn't appearing in my sent box and there is no confirmation that it has been sent. Is there a way I can check that it has been sent?

Thanks

 

[jetset]

I was told by Betfair that 5 people are needed to sign the bonus off. Unreal

If that's the case then it would appear that they are all either ignorant or lackadaisical

 

[hitobito2005]

I've had a reply from the Betfair rep, i've copied it here as there is no personal information (and like all correpsondance i've had with Betfair over this, I assume it's a "round robin" message)

Please find below the response from our casino team. Should you have any further complaints the addresses and phone numbers below should be used.

On the weekend of the 13/14th November Betfair ran a promotion for its casino product. It subsequently came to our attention that certain customers exploited the spirit of this promotion. The accounts of all customers that took part have been reviewed by Betfair, and corrective action has been taken where appropriate for those who acted in contravention of our terms and conditions.

Betfair has corresponded directly with all customers who were affected by this. If any customer would like to discuss the matter further, they may contact the LGA in Malta by e-mailing complaints@lga.org.mt or telephoning +356 21316590.

Betfair Casino Team

Bolding added by myself. If this isn't grounds for throwing them in the rogue pit I don't know what is.

 

[bigbadken]

Had the same reply. I played only straight up casino hold em exactly to their terms and conditions. They reversed a withdrawl for 3 figures of profit and removed it from my sports excahnge balance. PMd BetFairCasino on here and just got the same response, referring me to malta and telling me to bugger off basically....really bad

 

[hugarse]

I've had exactly the same response, despite drawing their attention to the fact that they have not only taken back all my money from the promo, but also money I played and won on slots before the promo even started.
They have clearly not reviewed my account as I asked, and this has got me no further forward than I was before.

 

[hitobito2005]

Perhaps the new Betfair rep here, some kind of PR manager, didn't realise how stubborn the casino management are being over this. Either way, Betfair are clearly not going to respond to or investigate these player issues. The "spirit of the promotion" line (particularly with regards to an unlimited bonus promotion) is among the worst rogue utterances i've heard from a casino.