Betfair Bonus Fiasco

[RedAndi]

New line in their casino TnCs:
From time to time we experience irregular betting patterns from players trying to clear bonus wagering requirements, and not acting within the fair nature of a promotional offering. As such we may review the betting patterns of account holders prior to processing the withdrawal of bonus funds and winnings. ... Betfair Casino reserves the right in our sole discretion to deem a betting pattern irregular. If we suspect that irregular betting patterns have contributed to the wagering requirements of this bonus we will withdraw the bonus and any associated winnings. No correspondence will be entered into.

Hilarious!
In other words.....FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF YOU!

 

[Joaopc56]

That line is only in this christmas bonus.

 

[jetset]

Looks as if Betfair is still clinging on to that hackneyed notion that if players stay within the T&C's and win, those players can be unilaterally and subjectively deemed to be not playing within the spiriit of the bonus and can still be penalised.

Crazy.

These guys are totally out of date and out of touch with the player community, and I would really like to see them defending their actions in general and in this debacle in particular, in a court of law.

I would hope that other online gambling information sites are warning players about this company.

 

[skiny]

I'm pretty sure they know what's going on. I'm just not sure why they're allowing it to happen. They're acting like they're dealing privately on a player by player basis but they must know this is entirely public with a large group of spectators.

I have no idea how much this would have cost them to simply settle up and move on but it had to be the better choice than flushing the entire business down the toilet.

Surely they had to have known recovering from a huge monetary loss would be easier than recovering from a reputation as a group of thieves.

 

[GOCC]

New line in their casino TnCs:

It wouldnt stand in court one IOTA under the UTCCR

 

[jetset]

That line is only in this christmas bonus.

Anthing yet from your complaints to the bank and regulatory banking authorities, Joaopc56?

 

[Pinababy69]

Not to derail, but I was searching this morning for some info on Betfair and of course came across their Corporate page. They claim to be the largest betting provider in the world, to have over 3 million registered customers, to employ over 2000 people and have a turnover of millions of pounds a day. Is that a fair and accurate assessment?

If so, I'm even more shocked at the whole thing. I knew they were a large, well respected firm...but had no idea they were that large.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Not to derail, but I was searching this morning for some info on Betfair and of course came across their Corporate page. They claim to be the largest betting provider in the world, to have over 3 million registered customers, to employ over 2000 people and have a turnover of millions of pounds a day. Is that a fair and accurate assessment?

If so, I'm even more shocked at the whole thing. I knew they were a large, well respected firm...but had no idea they were that large.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall

It is their sheer size that makes them believe they can get away with this. Size comes with deep pockets, which can buy expensive lawyers to defend any cases that come along. They can also throw money at PR, and try to bury this issue.

It is likely that they are expecting some players to take this to court, but hope that others will simply "huff and puff" for a while before slinking away. They will only use their money where they feel the need, such as to ensure they are not defeated over this in court.

There are a good many "no win, no fee" groups touting for business. If one of these can be convinced that these cases are "good", they should leap at the chance to take them on. They get their fees through applying for costs when they win, and only take cases they believe stand a fair chance of succeeding. This would be the cheapest way to take action on claims too large for the small claims process, but it would help for some settlements in favour of players to be made through the small claims process in order to clarify the legal standing of this action.

Betfair could also find the courts WILL hear this case.

"Homes From Hell" feratured a Turkish Cypriot family taking a UK couple to court to reclaim land in NORTHERN Cyprus. THREE separate Jurisdictions. It was only when the case got as far as the EU court that the Cypriot family won. The English couple went to appeal in the ENGLISH high court to overturn the EU court judgement, and the Northern Cypriot government said they didn't recognise the EU court's decision in the first place, and the couple were free to stay.

Not only did the English court hear the case, it found for the Cypriot Family, and forced the English couple to move out of their Nothern Cypriot property, hand the land back, AND pay damages of "back rent" for their period of unlawful occupation.

Now, do Betfair think a UK court will NOT hear a case because the "offence" did not take place in England, but in Malta.

IF the UK high court will rule on actions that took place in Northern Cyprus, but by an English couple, they will probably rule on the actions that took place in Malta by a BRITISH registered company. It seems that a link to the UK is what it takes for the English court to hear a case, NOT in which jurisdiction the contested act took place.

Since Betfair is a British registered company, any player can use the English courts. English players can use the courts anyway, but enforcement of a judgement is much more likely where the company is British registered.

From time to time we experience irregular betting patterns from players trying to clear bonus wagering requirements, and not acting within the fair nature of a promotional offering. As such we may review the betting patterns of account holders prior to processing the withdrawal of bonus funds and winnings. ... Betfair Casino reserves the right in our sole discretion to deem a betting pattern irregular. If we suspect that irregular betting patterns have contributed to the wagering requirements of this bonus we will withdraw the bonus and any associated winnings. No correspondence will be entered into.

So, trying to clear the WR is itself an "irregular betting pattern". In effect, winning is forbidden, but they will arbitrarily pay some winners who "played fair".

It's no different from a player issuing a chargeback because "the slots were unfairly tight", giving them an unfair game, but "in the player's sole determination".

Rather than take a hard look at their bonus structures, they have decided to address the problem the lazy way, by adding a term that would make CoolCat casino blush with embarrassment at it's roguish directness

Whilst much of the press might think this not important enough, this doesn't apply to the SUN, who DO run stories about gambling woes and successes. The Sun did a story a while back on "professional fruit machine players", and interviewed a pair who would regularly travel on the ferries making thousands in profits by "knowing" the various "tricks" on the machines, which were the "club" variants with jackpots of £500 to £1000.

They are quite likely to take this Betfair story seriously, rather than dismiss it out of hand. Although considered a "tabloid rag", it gets read by a good many of the very people that businesses aim for as customers - the "working class" general public.

The Daily Mail will probably be interested, more so if you tell it the Sun has expressed an interest already

The "broadsheets" may get involved if the story becomes "big", affecting the company's standing in "the city".

 

[anniemac]

Pina,

Don't know how big Betfair is but I do know that they have purchased on of the 2 horse racing channels in the US. They purchased TVG network. I will have to do a little research on whether or not they purchased any related betting sites as TVG did have their own wagering site.

That is why I said a little well placed blurb to US horse racing sites, such as the Daily Racing Form for one, might be a way to get to them. Horse bettors take a dim view of getting screwed out of their money.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Well hopefully some good can come out of this sorry fiasco next year.

I for one am sick and tired of having no effective regulation at any Malta based casino so hopefully this farcical situation will finally get addressed, at least as regards UK companies operating in Malta.

Personally I think the story will eventually reach the national media, probably when the court cases start piling up. If it does get out it will be very damaging for the online gaming market as a whole. If I was another operator like Ladbrokes or William hill I would be begging Betfair to resolve this. The effects are bound to ripple out.

 

[Joaopc56]

Anthing yet from your complaints to the bank and regulatory banking authorities, Joaopc56?

Not yet mate. I´m waiting for my bank reply, they have 10 days (4 working days now) to reply. I will let you know when there are news.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Not yet mate. I´m waiting for my bank reply, they have 10 days (4 working days now) to reply. I will let you know when there are news.

We will wait. This is a key case, and it beggars belief that Betfair went this far. If your bank is forced to return the €32,000, Betfair will REALLY have something to worry about. Even if the bank WINS (i.e. doesn't have to give the money back) it will be a HUGE blow to the trust between player, bank and operator that such a thing can even happen, let alone be ruled "legal". It will reinforce fears about giving bank details to online operators, and will blow away the belief that they CANNOT use the information to make a debit without your permission.

Quite a few of Betfair's core customers probably link their Betfair account to their bank accounts, but after this they might re-evaluate the risks of doing this. At the very least they might no longer use their main bank accounts, but a separate one dedicated to holding their gambling funds. They would also be more careful about leaving money just sitting there.

Remember, Betfair are NOT repentant in any way, they have amended their terms to make it clear that they WILL do this again under similar circumstances.

 

[catcat941]

take betfair to court 1

I suggest that since betfair casino has offices in europe , than players should simply file a court complain , and it will be a good opportunity

for us to see what does the court , uk or malta thinks about confiscating winnings over "not in the spirit of the bonus"

 

[jetset]

Betfair is essentially UK-based, despite its Malta casino licensing. That being the case, the following may be of interest to UK complainants:

UK REGULATOR PLEASED WITH GAMBLERS' HOT LINE PERFORMANCE

120 confidential calls received in first six months of operation

The UK Gambling Commission’s confidential intelligence line designed to allow gamblers, licensed operators and sports people alike to 'tip-off' the authorities on questionable gambling practices has apparently been effective during its first six months of operation.

A statement from the Commission this week reveals that in its first six months the line has received over 120 calls, a significant number of which contributed to ongoing criminal and regulatory investigations.

The new line (0121 230 6655) was formally launched in May 2010 and allows individuals to make anonymous reports to help the Commission tackle both illegal unlicensed gambling and non-compliant licensed gambling.

The line is staffed by the Commission’s existing intelligence experts between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday (a message can be left outside of these hours) and to date calls have been received on almost every day the line has been open.

The Commission’s Director of Regulation, Nick Tofiluk said: “The Gambling Commission’s Confidential Intelligence Line (0121) 230 6655 is actively helping keep gambling fair and safe for all."

 

[jetset]

Not to derail, but I was searching this morning for some info on Betfair and of course came across their Corporate page. They claim to be the largest betting provider in the world, to have over 3 million registered customers, to employ over 2000 people and have a turnover of millions of pounds a day. Is that a fair and accurate assessment?

If so, I'm even more shocked at the whole thing. I knew they were a large, well respected firm...but had no idea they were that large.

It's not an exaggeration; Betfair is big and successful....but apparently with such success comes arrogance.

And pride often comes before a fall.

 

[The Dude]

It's not an exaggeration; Betfair is big and successful....but apparently with such success comes arrogance.

And pride often comes before a fall.

Big is not always synonymous with good. I remember a few years ago William Hill's former COO boasting at a conference that they were William Hill and that was a sole reason to promote them. Then they went stumbling around for a while - dropped Crypto and bought CPays because their online casino strategy was crapping out.

Betfair is looking like the same thing. To big to be run in a coordinated and efficient manner.

And when it comes to big corporate entities, ask yourself this: would you rather eat at McDonald's, or the mom & pop restaurant down the street? You probably wouldn't find me at the golden arches

By the way, for what it's worth, I've testified before in London's High Court as an expert witness on online gaming, if anyone feels that I may assist, you know where to find me.

 

[leonardo99]

Big is not always synonymous with good.

Not try to convince a women about this..

 

[RedAndi]

Not try to convince a women about this..

:clap:

 

[BBKPoker]

I'm surprised no one has tried filing a complaint through Sportsbook Review yet, as they are an A+ rated and recommended sportsbook (ok so they are actually a betting exchange, whatever) as well as casino. They may not take being rogued here as seriously as they should, but it would be a very big deal if they got a deluge of complaints through SBR, didn't resolve it and lost their A listed status, and there's a zero percent chance SBR will accept a "spirit of the bonus" abuse claim, they are extremely hard line and vigilant when it comes to shennanigans like this.

 

[BBKPoker]

To elaborate: SBR is to sportsbooks as Meister is to casinos, aside from that SBR probably has even more influence/marketshare than Meister does. Being a-rated is very very difficult and requires a live tour of the premises, a crystal clean record, etc. A single complaint unresolved can drop you several letter grades, even something like a 3-4 payment delay can cause you to lose rating. The books well rated on it are very invested in staying that way, and they are good about dealing with complaints.

 

[Joaopc56]

I did. SBR Justin made a complain for me on LGA etc

I think betfair is no longer A on SBR after this!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did. SBR Justin made a complain for me on LGA etc

I think betfair is no longer A on SBR after this!

This is what we need. Your particular case is so striking because they didn't just confiscate winnings, they raided your bank account using the details you registered with them. This could have broken numerous LAWS, as well as "good practise" voluntary standards.

If you get a ruling that what they did was illegal under Portuguese law, let SBR know this too, as well as all of us.

I doubt many casinos would go as far as to raid a players' bank account, even though quite a few have raided players' eWallet accounts in the past.

This is probably early days for this fiasco, the REAL repercussions for Betfair will come once some legal pronouncements are made, or some court cases go against them.

I expect the LGA will do their best to ignore this, but may have to change their tune if they are criticised by other regulators over their inaction.

Casinos using Malta should heed the German victory in the EU court that now allows member states to ban operators from other states if they feel that their own citizens are not adequately protected. Malta is NOT protecting the interests of players, but of OPERATORS.

France have now joined other member states by NOT automatically allowing operators from other EU states into their domestic market. Firms now need an additional French license. Poland is going for a complete ban on offshore operators. Some German states have used the court ruling to implement bans.

Surely the operators are seeing that an EU jurisdiction no longer means automatic access to all EU markets. They should also realise that the ENTIRE industry will be judged by the headline incidents of rogue behaviour going unpunished despite apparent regulation being in place.

 

[Joaopc56]

I did everything I could to solve this situation. Even if I never get my money back at least I want to hurt betfair in some way even if it´s only in Portugal. Next step is inform all media I can here in Portugal about this. I won´t give up from this and if I have to take this to court I will pay a lawyer no problem.

However every company I contaced here in Portugal said the problem is between me and my bank, not between me and betfair. Betfair were the thieves, bank allowed the thief to take 32k from my bank account. 3-4 working days left to have a reply from my bank I will keep you informed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did everything I could to solve this situation. Even if I never get my money back at least I want to hurt betfair in some way even if it´s only in Portugal. Next step is inform all media I can here in Portugal about this. I won´t give up from this and if I have to take this to court I will pay a lawyer no problem.

However every company I contaced here in Portugal said the problem is between me and my bank, not between me and betfair. Betfair were the thieves, bank allowed the thief to take 32k from my bank account. 3-4 working days left to have a reply from my bank I will keep you informed.

OK, don't be rash. Make your BANK responsible for getting the money back, forget about pursuing Betfair directly. Unlike Betfair, your bank WILL have to obey the law in Portugal, and if this means the bank were negligent in allowing the funds to leave, the BANK will have to reimburse you, and subsequent persuit of Betfair will be your BANK's problem, not yours.

Wait until the 10 day period is up, and your bank is forced to reply. If your bank does NOT give the money back, you have even MORE "meat" to this story, which will make it MORE interesting for the media. Your BANK will also be dragged into the issue for siding with Betfair.

When you have exhausted this avenue, you can go after Betfair through SBR and other sites, to ensure they realise they have NOT managed to get away with this.

 

[heador112]

I dont know about laws in other EU countries but here in Germany a company or a private user can make a chargeback within 2 days or so . Imagine you make a bank transfer to a wrong account so you can charge back money within a small time frame.

Maybe thats why your bank allowed the chargeback from betfair .