Betfair Bonus Fiasco

Brilliant - that should have the bank knocking on Betfair's door for an explanation, and this will perhaps start shaking things up a little more successfully and help break through the corporate policy of silence.

Please continue to keep us in the picture here.
 
I succesfully sued William Hill PLC for a case against their casino in Gibralter. William Hill argued that it was the wrong court and company but the judge ruled his court as a Forum of Convenience. When he did that, we adjourned and Hills agreed to pay plus costs and damages.

I bet that shook things up as well!

Operators rarely feel legal heat from players.
 
I have some news.

DECO (wich is a company here in Portugal who receives complains and defend customers) told me to write a letter to my bank´s Director. The letter must have a reply (I don´t know how to say it in English). They gave me the adress and help me with the situation. They said my bank must pay my money back in 10 working days, othewise DECO will assign a lawyer for me and take this case further, because as they said "the money was already in bank´s responsability and they can´t allow a 32k debit without any permission".

Cheers, just to keep you informed.


Thanks and good luck. Your case is important to everyone because if you get paid it would mean all players who played legitimately would have to be paid too.
 
I succesfully sued William Hill PLC for a case against their casino in Gibralter. William Hill argued that it was the wrong court and company but the judge ruled his court as a Forum of Convenience. When he did that, we adjourned and Hills agreed to pay plus costs and damages.

VERY interesting. Can this case be traced easily through court records, since the judgement that the case COULD be heard by a UK court would set a precedent in "case law", and could be used to counter any argument Betfair puts forward about it being "wrong court, wrong company".

Note how the minute they realised the case COULD be decided in a court of the CUSTOMER'S choosing, they simply "caved in" and paid a settlement + costs, rather than take the risk of having a judgement against them on their record.

The judge probably decided that the company & jurisdictional structure was "artificial", and designed to make it hard for customers to seek justice through the courts. It will probably work this way with ANY company that is legally based in the UK (Betfair for example), but ring fences some activities in an offshore subsidiary.

The UK courts tend to "clarify" some legal arguments through "case law", rather than written law. This requires a case to be brought for the first time over a given matter for a precedent setting ruling to be given. Once accepted, such a ruling can be quoted by the lawyers in future cases as a supporting argument for their case, and judges WILL take prior rulings into account before making their own.

Even the UK GOVERNMENT have lost high profile court cases because of this principle, and not only do the government have the best access of all to top lawyers, they MAKE the laws in the first place!

Remember, you are suing the COMPANY, not it's "server farm". It may ONLY be the servers that have a physical presence in Malta, along with a simple maildrop office. If this is all Betfair have in Malta, they will have a hard time arguing that their activities are conducted under Maltese law.

There is also a European proposal that allows CONSUMERS to sue any EU country in the CUSTOMER'S own country, rather than the EU state the company is based in. This was thought up because it was thought that companies already have an unfair advantage over customers in legal proceedings because they can hire expensive lawyers, and try to price the customer out of the process, even where the customer can sue "at home". I do not know whether this proposal became EU law, or whether particular countries signed up to it. I spotted it looking for something else, and it is one of those rather obscure EU rules that tend to stay hidden, perhaps in this case because companies would rather customers DON'T know about it.

We now need a UK based player with enough at stake, but ONLY as much as can be handled through the "small claims" process. They first want a ruling that the case CAN be decided by a UK court, and they may then find this is also the LAST ruling they will be needing;)
 
The judge probably decided that the company & jurisdictional structure was "artificial", and designed to make it hard for customers to seek justice through the courts. It will probably work this way with ANY company that is legally based in the UK (Betfair for example), but ring fences some activities in an offshore subsidiary.


Too true, although I doubt it's a model that they purposely set up for this reason, probably more down to tax and the cheapest licensing costs, the company being registered there is a benefit when it comes to issues like this.

That being said, consumer law covers the person bringing the case to trial doesn't it? Something else you could possibly explore - you were paid, therefore you went out and spent on the premise of receiving that money, to then have it taken away surely makes Betfair liable?
 
Vinyl
Sorry but you are incorrect. You can not set precedents or case law in the lower courts. It has to be over 5k and be raised to the mercantile court fir any ruling to be classed as case law. My claim was for under 5k BUT when the summary hearing was heard, their costs were something like 4k (Think it was to scare me) but this is irrelevant as to the allocation of court.
 
Vinyl
Sorry but you are incorrect. You can not set precedents or case law in the lower courts. It has to be over 5k and be raised to the mercantile court fir any ruling to be classed as case law. My claim was for under 5k BUT when the summary hearing was heard, their costs were something like 4k (Think it was to scare me) but this is irrelevant as to the allocation of court.

OK, so the precedent angle didn't scare them - but it sure scared the crap of the UK banks, who tended to cave in rather than have ANY court rule in favour of a customer.

Some of these Betfair cases ARE over 5K though, and therefore COULD set a precedent.

Maybe William Hill just didn't want OTHER players to be encouraged to bring claims after a success by one player.

Of course, it works both ways, a player could LOSE in court, and this would scare other players away, because the losers pay the costs.

This is all viable because the new UK gambling act did away with gambling debts being unenforceable in law. It was the OPERATORS who wanted this change, because many sportsbooks grant credit, and send a bill for net losses, or a cheque for net wins. My dad had one such account, but it was mostly bills, rather than cheques, that he received. He gave up when they raised the minimum stake to £5 (He was not a high roller by any means).

I even had an account for a while in the 1980's, but didn't win. I was mostly into Fruit Machines, rather than sport, and I am still into casino style games, rather than sports betting.
 
Something else you could possibly explore - you were paid, therefore you went out and spent on the premise of receiving that money, to then have it taken away surely makes Betfair liable?

That's a very good point, you had the money for two days, what if you had bought a car or something?

I really hope you get that money back!
 
Well apparently nothing has changed over the weekend. I actually thought that the casino team would take another look at this as I suggested, but no - nothing.

This is really unprecedented - a major betting establishment cocking up a bonus offer, giving their players a "spirit of the bonus" red card, and sticking their heads in the sand. I hope their investors and shareholders don't mind Betfair being tossed into the rogue pit at Casinomeister because that's where they're going to be by close of business tomorrow.
 
Well apparently nothing has changed over the weekend. I actually thought that the casino team would take another look at this as I suggested, but no - nothing.

This is really unprecedented - a major betting establishment cocking up a bonus offer, giving their players a "spirit of the bonus" red card, and sticking their heads in the sand. I hope their investors and shareholders don't mind Betfair being tossed into the rogue pit at Casinomeister because that's where they're going to be by close of business tomorrow.

That probably won't worry them as much as the publicity surrounding a rash of court cases.

It depends on how many players who said they would try the courts actually bother doing so. THIS is what will cause the story to get airtime on the mainstream media. Even before this, the financial press will start looking into it because of the risk it poses to the share price.

It is NOT by any means unprecedented for a FTSE 100 company to get embroiled in scandal. Severn Trent directors were convicted of FRAUD a while ago, and the mainstream media were all over it like a rash.

The energy industry has just started being investigated for "jacking up" prices for a THIRD severe winter in a row. The last two times they were quick to put proces up, but waited till the cold weather ended before easing them down despite wholesale prices falling earlier.

I wonder when the online casino industry will come under a general investigation, even if it ends up being "trial by media".
 
My view is that the screwed players should feel sufficiently outraged to take this issue further, using the diverse channels and possibilities already suggested throughout this thread.

But the one case which really tightens the focus on the very questionable behaviour of Betfair in both the promotion issue and the manner in which Betfair as subsequently acted is in my opinion that of the Portuguese gentleman who had Euro 32 000 taken from his bank account without his permission.

That to me is the sort of story an investigative reporter could really get his teeth into!
 
Instead of waiting for the news media to find out on their own, maybe someone should just give them a call and get the ball rolling.
 
That probably won't worry them as much as the publicity surrounding a rash of court cases...
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss reverberations of the Rogue pit. Casinomeister is already referenced in Betfair's Wikipedia page under "Refusal to pay winnings and threats to successful players"

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And they aren't even rogued yet.
 
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss reverberations of the Rogue pit. Casinomeister is already referenced in Betfair's Wikipedia page under "Refusal to pay winnings and threats to successful players"

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And they aren't even rogued yet.

Nothing about this in the news section of the Stock Exchange (yet;) ). It seems the shares fell sharply from 24th November onwards, and only recently picked up a little. This seems unrelated to the bonus fiasco though, but to some regulatory news story.

Wikipedia is a start, but once this controversy ends up ranking highly on Google, they may worry more about losing potential customers who do their research first.

I take it they WILL be rogued unless they decide to start engaging with you & Max about this issue.

Maybe you should "call their bluff" and place them in the pit, as when this happened to William Hill over it's ex Cpays casinos, it got the attention of the CEO who decided to open a channel of communication with you.

It seems MOST of it's customers are from the UK, which leaves it vulnerable to a concerted series of court claims from aggrieved players.

The outcome of the bank raid for €32,000 issue will be interesting, since the victim has a claim against his BANK, as well as against Betfair. His bank is not going to be able to hide behind the LGA, even if Betfair thinks it can. If the bank is ordered to give back this €32,000, it will most likely go after Betfair for recovery of an "illegal transaction", which is EXACTLY what Betfair is doing to recover money IT thinks resulted from an "illegal payout".
 
Not heard a thing myself apart from an initial reply the day after submission.

I think court is going to be the only way really. They are obviously finding it too easy to just fob people off and try and get away with that.
 
I don't actually know where to start looking to sue them, I'm chasing £10,000+ they took in cleared winnings so too much for small claims.
 
It´s funny how I received a christmas bonus from betfair. Worth saying my account stills blocked and they debited 32k from my bank account. They´re offering every single day until 23 December a bonus in casino. I´m out. I don´t even know why they sent me an e-mail.
 
New line in their casino TnCs:

From time to time we experience irregular betting patterns from players trying to clear bonus wagering requirements, and not acting within the fair nature of a promotional offering. As such we may review the betting patterns of account holders prior to processing the withdrawal of bonus funds and winnings. ... Betfair Casino reserves the right in our sole discretion to deem a betting pattern irregular. If we suspect that irregular betting patterns have contributed to the wagering requirements of this bonus we will withdraw the bonus and any associated winnings. No correspondence will be entered into.
 

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