Betfair Bonus Fiasco

[thelawnet]

It depends what action people are planning to take. If they are taking it all the way they have to follow Betfair's dispute procedure. It may well be a waste of time contacting the LGA but if you don't follow the procedure you'll make things difficult for yourself down the line.

TBH the problem is that the LGA are basically certain to find for the casino, regardless of the facts, and this is likely to prejudice any future legal proceedings far more than simply going straight for an impartial hearing in front of a judge.

 

[GOCC]

I would definately not go to the LGA or IBAS.

I have heard HORROR stories of bookmakers having in the Terms whatever proviso they see fit; Voiding legitimate bets for example and because the proviso is their in their terms, IBAS have ruled in their favour despite the term being unfair under UTCCR.

Once they have this ruling from "An Independant Body" the judge, who will probaly bet on the Grand National and thats it, will be hevilly swayed by their ruling

 

[aceking123]

hi ive been to both for other things lga ibas & this is a oneway ticket , i would like to see how many people who have not lost a case agaisnt these two outfits . there gonna side with casinos or bookies , they take moneys from these people so why wouldnt they.

 

[hitobito2005]

Voiding legitimate bets for example and because the proviso is their in their terms, IBAS have ruled in their favour despite the term being unfair under UTCCR.

I suppose if this happens, you can take the specific term to court under UTCCR. If the term is ruled to be unfair, it will void the decision of IBAS/LGA.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Outrageous. They are debiting players' accounts but they still refuse to say exactly what the player has done wrong and refuse to enter into any further correspondence!

Dear xxxxxxx,

We have now had the opportunity to review your account activity in relation to our recent ‘Happy Hour’ promotion, and we thank you for your patience during that time.

As a result of our investigation, and in light of our finding that you have acted in contravention of Betfair Casino’s Standard Terms and Conditions, we have debited your account with a sum equivalent to the bonus funds and winnings associated with the ‘Happy Hour’ promotion in which you participated. Your account has been re-activated and is now available for you to use.

As your Betfair account held insufficient funds to accommodate such a debit, your account will now show a negative balance. Please fund your account with the negative balance amount of -£xxx at the first opportunity. Failure to do so by 26 November 2010, may result in us taking the appropriate action to recover this sum from you.

Whilst we are aware that this was not the outcome you were hoping for, we do now consider this matter closed, and shall not enter into any further correspondence in connection with it.

Kind regards
Betfair Casino

They can't add up then. If they have ONLY reversed the "illegitimate play", then the WORST that could happen is that the account returns to zero.

In this case, it looks like they have selectively voided only the WINNING bets, yet allowed the LOSING bets, played during the SAME "illegitimate play" session, to stand.

Although vague, they have stipulated that the terms were violated, and SERIOUSLY enough for this action to be taken. If disputed, they will have to PROVE this.

Let THEM take YOU to court. As a defendent, you have a natural advantage. THEY will have to prove their side, NOT you. If YOU take them to court, the burden of proof that they acted unfairly rests with YOU, and YOU would have to prove that you did NOT violate the terms.

There is no way they will be taking you to court, it's all noise and posturing. They would just lock your account and ban you for not paying up.

Even if they take a lesser route, such as debt collectors, respond by asking them to "prove the debt" they are claiming. They will have to respond with the basis for calculating the debt owed, and this will make the entire thing public knowledge.

It looks like this problem is SO big that they risk "going bust", and so are trying every trick in the book to bully players into accepting non-payment, and every trick they can to get back payouts that slipped through unnoticed. At the same time, SELECTED players are getting "kid glove" treatment. They did the same, violated the same terms, but are probably the most PROFITABLE players Betfair have, and they WILL pay them knowing they will get it all back and more.

What we need to make public are some detailed "case studies". This would include a detailed "Playcheck" type account of all bets placed, as well as deposits made, and bonuses received, during this promotion.

We could then debate how this gameplay violates the terms, or if indeed it does.

In order for you to replace the money, Betfair has reopened your account - how about pulling all your play and transaction histories instead

 

[sambaEah]

What we need to make public are some detailed "case studies". This would include a detailed "Playcheck" type account of all bets placed, as well as deposits made, and bonuses received, during this promotion.

We could then debate how this gameplay violates the terms, or if indeed it does.

In order for you to replace the money, Betfair has reopened your account - how about pulling all your play and transaction histories instead

I don't believe the people that have been affected by this have needed to violate any terms.

There was no reason to abuse the terms of the offer, I don't see why people were covering all on roulette for example.

I personally deposited a 4 figure sum and transferred as much as possible to stack bonuses, (stacking was also allowed based on the sentences in the promotion "You can trigger as many as you like").

Expired Image

I then ONLY played Casino Hold Em of varying stakes, cashing out once all bonus play was complete, a 5 figure sum.

Betfair cancelled my withdrawals, locked my account, reopened it days later removing any winnings (These are not "bonuses and winnings" as they refer to them, all bonuses were cleared legitimately so they have took winnings only) and then allowed me to withdraw my account balance which was the amount it held pre-Saturday night.

It's theft, pure and simple. Them allowing certain users to withdraw and keep winnings while taking winnings from others and also not refunding losing play just adds to the criminality of it.

 

[gazzer666]

They have retrospectively amended the T&C of their promotion now. Note qualifying games for WR :

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[spoonboy]

They have retrospectively amended the T&C of their promotion now. Note qualifying games for WR :

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WHAT?!!


They've changed it so it now says it was slots only and they also changed the WR from x10 to x20!

You could not make this up!

 

[pokeraddict]

I hope those of you that got cheated have filed complaints with SBR and pitched a bitch. It would seem that those that had their betting exchange money confiscated or ewallet transactions reversed really have strong regulatory and legal cases. I'm really shocked that Betfair has been silent in hoping this is going away.

 

[threescatters]

Retrospectively changing the t and is incredibley rogue, i cannot believe they are getting away with this

 

[hitobito2005]

They have retrospectively amended the T&C of their promotion now. Note qualifying games for WR :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Where did you get this new link from?

 

[Tengil]

I hope those of you that got cheated have filed complaints with SBR and pitched a bitch. It would seem that those that had their betting exchange money confiscated or ewallet transactions reversed really have strong regulatory and legal cases. I'm really shocked that Betfair has been silent in hoping this is going away.

May well be that they will get away with it. They have the LGA that most likely will back them. And this issue has got quite little coverage when you consider the sums involved.
In the end its "just" bonus hunters (majority) that got screwed and regular players hardly care what happens to them as long as they arent affected.
And Betfair can always go with the classic that its the bonus hunters that are responsible for terms and WRs getting tighter.

Plus punters will continue to use their betting exchange, probably many that got screwed also, regardless of what the casino has done.
Dont know how big the casino side is compared to betting but one would think its significantly smaller. They have probably come to a conclusion that they will hurt less with the current situation than to actually pay everyone owed.

 

[gazzer666]

Where did you get this new link from?

It was posted on another forum so assumed it was genuine.

 

[Nifty29]

May well be that they will get away with it. They have the LGA that most likely will back them. And this issue has got quite little coverage when you consider the sums involved.
In the end its "just" bonus hunters (majority) that got screwed and regular players hardly care what happens to them as long as they arent affected.
And Betfair can always go with the classic that its the bonus hunters that are responsible for terms and WRs getting tighter.

Plus punters will continue to use their betting exchange, probably many that got screwed also, regardless of what the casino has done.
Dont know how big the casino side is compared to betting but one would think its significantly smaller. They have probably come to a conclusion that they will hurt less with the current situation than to actually pay everyone owed.

Bonus hunters, recreational players, tea ladies, whatever - if they didn't break the rules they should be paid.

However, it is a fact that the average player is being lumped with increasingly higher WR as a direct result of the behavior of bonus 'wolf packs'. I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal, just that it has ramifications for everyone. I also consider some of it as pure greed, but that's just my opinion.

Bryan should consider throwing Betfair in the pit for, at the very least, changing terms retroactively.

 

[Tengil]

Bonus hunters, recreational players, tea ladies, whatever - if they didn't break the rules they should be paid.

However, it is a fact that the average player is being lumped with increasingly higher WR as a direct result of the behavior of bonus 'wolf packs'. I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal, just that it has ramifications for everyone. I also consider some of it as pure greed, but that's just my opinion.

Bryan should consider throwing Betfair in the pit for, at the very least, changing terms retroactively.

Thats only logical. Online gambling isnt that much different than other markets.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Retrospectively changing the t and is incredibley rogue, i cannot believe they are getting away with this

They have changed them to what they MEANT to have, but this is NOT what they had at the time. Even the software was counting all the games. The terms also make it perfectly clear that "stacking" is allowed for this promotion.

Even this one is only 20x on slots, STILL marginally +EV. What will they do when they get shafted AGAIN with this updated set of terms - ANOTHER round of confiscations?

 

[Jufo]

Even this one is only 20x on slots, STILL marginally +EV. What will they do when they get shafted AGAIN with this updated set of terms - ANOTHER round of confiscations?

This would be more than marginally +EV if player quadrubles 200€ deposit & 100€ bonus on 0% counting low HE games and has unlimited attempts at it, then grind the 20x WR on slots after successful quadrubling. So if Betfair were to repeat the offer with these rules, yes they would be shafted again

 

[threescatters]

its making some press online just now....i have nothing to do with this site and if its not allowed to link to other sites please remove this mods..i just thought id show an example of the articles ive been reading online

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[GOCC]

May well be that they will get away with it. They have the LGA that most likely will back them. And this issue has got quite little coverage when you consider the sums involved.
In the end its "just" bonus hunters (majority) that got screwed and regular players hardly care what happens to them as long as they arent affected.
And Betfair can always go with the classic that its the bonus hunters that are responsible for terms and WRs getting tighter.

Plus punters will continue to use their betting exchange, probably many that got screwed also, regardless of what the casino has done.
Dont know how big the casino side is compared to betting but one would think its significantly smaller. They have probably come to a conclusion that they will hurt less with the current situation than to actually pay everyone owed.

Been told that the casino is now a MASSIVE source of income.

 

[jetset]

its making some press online just now....i have nothing to do with this site and if its not allowed to link to other sites please remove this mods..i just thought id show an example of the articles ive been reading online

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Two stories on this issue have also appeared on Casinomeister News.

 

[maxd]

I see this one Jetset, which other one were you thinking of?:
BETFAIR ONLINE SCANDAL BREWING

FWIW, Betfair is not responding to the PABs we have submitted to them, including those related to this specific issue. The only active representative here, Alex C Betfair, has simply told us that all issues must be submitted to support@betfair.com which get bounced back as undeliverable (email sent to info@betfair.com gets an auto-response). Rep says he is unable to respond to or become involved with player compliants.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I see this one Jetset, which other one were you thinking of?:
BETFAIR ONLINE SCANDAL BREWING

FWIW, Betfair is not responding to the PABs we have submitted to them, including those related to this specific issue. The only active representative here, Alex C Betfair, has simply told us that all issues must be submitted to support@betfair.com which get bounced back as undeliverable (email sent to info@betfair.com gets an auto-response). Rep says he is unable to respond to or become involved with player compliants.

So, they are now a PAB "no-can-do". This should immediately qualify them for removal from the accredited list, and it looks like Bryan's back from the "recent posts" list.


I would like to nominate them for this year's "spectacular fall from grace" award

 

[maxd]

I've talked to Bryan in detail about the situation, brought him up to speed on what's been happening while he was away re: Betfair. He'll be doing what needs to be done over the next few days.

I hear you about the nomination, yeesh!

 

[Przecinek]

Well original terms have already been posted here, so I don't know what Betfair was thinking... they are just getting deeper and deeper into this mess

Good I wasn't affected by this. I heard they're not paying freebets associated with Tango Down promotion too...

 

[Casinomeister]

Betfair has been removed from the Accredited section.

I am extremely dismayed on how Betfair has handled this situation. Actually, it's rather shameful and disrespects all casinos listed in the Accredited section.

This is the fourth casino removed in the past couple of weeks due to being non-communicative.