Betfair Bonus Fiasco

daywalker

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Location
UK
It looks as though the person responsible has already been fired.

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.

Note in point 6, that you must have integrity.

:lolup: LOL!
It doesn't to me.

Surely the person responsible would be the casino promotions manager and not someone in marketing who deals with high value customers? Bear in mind this offer was for all Betfair users and not just high value ones.

There is a position for sports promotion executive who reports to the sports promo manager so I expect the same positions are held by people in the casino department.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS:eek:

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.
 

threescatters

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
UK
Betfair Hitler Video

Don't know if its been posted over here yet but if any of you played betfair casino this weekend you might find this funny.....Casinomeister gets a mention!

 
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dougbet1

Dormant Account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
UK
Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS:eek:

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.

Just to answer the bolded, I once had my Moneybookers account closed and funds confiscated because St Minver (who operate bingo sites) made a direct complaint.

I complained to St Minver who admitted a mistake and re-opened my account immediatly.

It took Moneybookers over 5 weeks/daily e-mails from me and multiple e-mails from St Minver to re-open my account.
They never did answer the section of my complaint that asked why they, without question, accepted everything the merchant had said but never listened to me. Even though I pressed them on it specifically multiple times.

Of course I understand that the merchant will generate more profit than me over any period and that's why I got such shoddy treatment, but I am a paying customer and deserve a good level of service.

Moneybookers are to quick to forget that they have a responsibility to protect all users of their service.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
There is an ongoing thread here:

Link Outdated / Removed

Which should definitely be moved to this forum, or the Bonus Issues Complaints forum.
 

jstrike

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Europe
I was under the impression moneybookers was quasi-illegitimate from day one...no? People use them and manage to get their withdrawals? I was looking at them as a payment option and I took them off my list. Quick search of "moneybookers scam" turns up a pretty shady history, and more than their share of horror stories. Some of the stories are probably fake and planted by their competition...and every service has disgruntled users...but having read what I have, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if they'd aided a casino in going rogue. No reputable service would reverse dozens or hundreds of transactions without investigating for at least a few days, if not weeks, short of trying to correct some kind of major software error. Human error is definitely grounds for a more thorough investigation.
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS:eek:

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.

An absolutely great post, VWM! :thumbsup:
 

threescatters

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
UK
this is such big news in the gambling world it really should be in the main online casinos forum
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I sent a massage to the Mods earlier asking them to do just that.

That video is bloody hilarious though, I have to admit! :notworthy

KK

Well KK, while you were massaging "them" (like yuck)....I was messaging them, lol. :laugh: :p
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
This really looks like a shocker, and it will be interesting to see Betfair's side of the story.

If they are smart they will already be in damage control mode and may respond quickly - it's not too late to retrieve something from this.

Promotional blunders that are retrieved by hammering the players for the casino's error are not new in the industry (remember the classic multi-millions payout that 888.com made when it screwed up big time on a promotion many years ago?) but this one looks like a doozie.

Betfair have only recently successfully completed an IPO, which makes their conduct (assuming these reports are true) all the more reprehensible.

Perhaps they need to take a historic look at how Vahe and John Anderson (then bossmen at 888.com) handled the issue way back then.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I was under the impression moneybookers was quasi-illegitimate from day one...no? People use them and manage to get their withdrawals? I was looking at them as a payment option and I took them off my list. Quick search of "moneybookers scam" turns up a pretty shady history, and more than their share of horror stories. Some of the stories are probably fake and planted by their competition...and every service has disgruntled users...but having read what I have, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if they'd aided a casino in going rogue. No reputable service would reverse dozens or hundreds of transactions without investigating for at least a few days, if not weeks, short of trying to correct some kind of major software error. Human error is definitely grounds for a more thorough investigation.

Certainly NOT defending their actions at all (MB I mean), but they are not the only ewallet that has a history of yanking back player's funds from their account, AFTER a withdrawal has been processed. As VWM mentioned in his post, it happened with Prime Play shortly after they first opened..and later, it also happened with Mansion Casino. So this is not something new.

Threads for reference:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/prime-casino-remove-my-money-from-neteller.17927/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/mansion-rob-my-neteller-to-take-bonus-back.18961/

I have used Moneybookers for years with no problems, as many have used Neteller with no issues. Just highlighting the fact that this practice is a bit more common than some may think.

I find it absolutely mind boggling, that any merchant could have Neteller or MB go into a player's ewallet account, and confiscate already paid funds. It IS the equivalent of a chargeback on the part of the casino...and every bit as fraudulent, IMO, as a player who does the same thing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Jetset is spot on. If Betfair wants to salvage any scrap of their reputation, they need to do some immediate damage control. That includes paying all affected players ALL monies due, and making a public statement. Mistakes can be forgiven...a casino who deliberately cheats the players cannot.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
PABinit
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
I find it absolutely mind boggling, that any merchant could have Neteller or MB go into a player's ewallet account, and confiscate already paid funds. It IS the equivalent of a chargeback on the part of the casino...and every bit as fraudulent, IMO, as a player who does the same thing.

Bryan / Max

1. Could this be added as one of the stages to pass when considering accreditation?

2. If chargebacks constitutes an 'Evil Player'... will this be the same for the Casino AND Processor?

3. Could we possibly contact processors and confirm if they WILL do a chargeback at the request of a Casino? If so, can we place warnings for potential customers of that Ewallet?

4. We seriously need to decipher the issue of 'Irregular Playing Patterns'. This is something that is NOT acceptable and more Casinos are getting away with it. I cannot fathom why this has never been addressed (I stand to be corrected - if it has please point me to the thread)...

5. I understand that this issue is in the early stages and no other info was released, but it makes you feel sick ... Players have NO protection.. Not from the EWallet or from the supposed 'FAIR' Casinos.

Nate
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Bryan / Max ....

To paraphrase the Asian guy in the cold suit in Blade Runner: "I do PABs, just PABs".

You're talking Accreditation policy and that's 100% Bryan's domain. He'll be back on or about the 29th so you may need to wait a bit to get his input on this.
 

liquuid_fusion

Meister Member
PABaccred
PABnorogue
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Location
UK
Don't think so - I don't think they communicate with any third parties (forums, SBR, Casinomeister etc).

Apparantly they do communicate with third parties now (well CM at least) as of October this year, which is when Bryan put them back in the accredited section.
 

Jufo

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
I just could not believe that an a E-wallet with such status as Moneybookers would return monies to a casino, without even consulting the person whom has the account, I just closed my MB account.

To be fair, only one person mentioned this having happened. Landprofits, you wrote that it happened to your friend and was there maybe something else involved with this? It looks like most of the players who managed to withdraw from Betfair to Moneybookers were able to keep their monies, though many of them probably emptied their Moneybookers accounts just in case Betfair tried to get it back.
 

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