bellerock being akward over ID - locked accs and no payouts.

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marcholmes

Banned User - bogus claim - violation of <a href="
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
uk
Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.
 
I don't want to say much more pending a complaint to eCOGRA, but for me this issue has finally resolved one of the continual mysteries of on-line casinos: were the random reversals of cash-ins, nonsensical responses of CS and general disarray at Bellerock simply incompetence or a deliberate attempt to try and increase profits? Clearly the latter.

Just two points: 1) the "discrepancies" in the documents provided are an obvious lie (some basis in fact might be possible if just one or two people received it after sending in normal ID, but it's clearly sent out to everyone caught up in this).

2) "certifying" ID is an absurdity. All that's going to happen, even if you can persuade someone to certify it, is that you then have to scan a photocopy rather than the original document - so Bellerock have the same document but of lower quality. Is it really so hard in this day and age to confirm ID through other means - i.e. through the electoral register (for the UK) or on the basis of bank cards etc.

The problem then is that as the certified ID issue is just a red herring you have to wonder what excuse Bellerock will come up with not to pay after you've wasted all the time and effort providing it.

Ok, enough said for now - but players would be advised to steer clear of this group in favour of places where they know they'll be paid quickly if they win.
 
It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

I've played and won at casino no net and when it came to withdrawing money, there wasn't any problems. It was all done in 5 days. As for Monaco gold casino, they ask for two things:

1: photo copy of My driving license, front and back.

2: photo copy of the front and back of the debit card or credit card that was used to deposit money.

Why on earth do they ask for this?

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.
 
FWIW, here's what a casino has to do, before taking a player's money, according to eCogra:

100.R.6 The locking of player accounts shall be conducted through a formal documented process.



Here's what eCogra has to do, to take away a seal:

The following must take place before a seal can be withdrawn:

(i) the eGAP rules are clear and unambiguous;

(ii) a person or entity is given a chance to rectify any shortcomings or non-compliance;

(iii) the natural justice rules are followed in relation to disciplinary proceedings; and

(iv) the eGAP and natural justice rules are consistently applied on a
case to case basis.

The three cardinal rules of natural justice are:

1. A person or entity has the right to know the case against him. This typically requires:

. adequate notice of the allegations
. adequate notice of the hearing
. adequate notice of the procedure for determining the alleged breach(es)

2. A person or entity must have a fair opportunity to answer the charges and
present his own case.

3. A person has the right to a decision from an unbiased decision-maker.


In other words, the casino gets, (among other things) -

-- a "chance to rectify" any shortcomings
-- a "fair opportunity" to answer charges
-- a hearing before an "unbiased" decisionmaker.

The player gets -

-- a "documented procedure."



I wouldn't hold my breath. I hope I'm wrong, though.
 
el nino said:
It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

...

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.
I do have a lot of sympathy for that. Judging by the way even "reputable" casinos have been behaving recently they're about the last people on earth I'd wish to have all that information. It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans. When I started playing I went through almost all the MG casinos without a single request for scans, though it was the norm at Playtech and RTG casinos.

Unfortunately the situation seems to have changed now and it's hard to play at casinos without providing ID, certainly if you actually win anything. There are one or two convincing reasons for it (even if I find it hard to take casinos talking about money laundering or under-age gambling very seriously), but overall I'm sure it's mainly there because they know they'll be able to find a reason not to pay a percentage of winners.

Anyway, I think sending scans is a necessary evil that has to be accepted if you want to play at on-line casinos. Asking for certified or notarized documents, on the other hand, is clear rogue behaviour and has no convincing justification. For an example: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ayment-of-winnings-at-acropolis-casino.12723/
 
Vesuvio said:
It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans.

Poker rooms - at least those not affiliated with casinos - don't ask for scans either.
 
More BS

marcholmes said:
Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.

It is the job of a "Swearer of Oaths" to provide certification of a copy. They do this by seeing IN PERSON the original documents, and themselves producing the copy, which they then attach a seal of certification to - which is the "Swearing of the Oath" that said copy represents evidence of a true original document.
By sending this in as a JPEG negates the whole damn thing!, as the JPEG itself is NOT a certified copy, rather a copy of what may, or may not be, a certified copy of an original document.

This ID crap is beginning to get out of hand! While it is actually a requirement by eCogra, it seems to go wrong because the staff tasked with verification are not PROPERLY TRAINED - Obviously so, as if they were, they would know the POLICE don't do what they told the player to get done.

Sending in the ID should be followed by getting paid, not by the run-around. If the ID is evidence of fraud, only then should accounts be locked. How would they like it if eCogra revoked their seal, and THEN started trying to sort out this problem. This is support AGAIN for making advance verification to the casino's satisfaction before accepting the first deposit COMPULSORY. There would be no opportunity to "pull a stunt", they would have to turn away the player before making a cent from them (it would encourage them to speed up the process too).
 
bellerock is good for

reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.
 
Bellerock

Also, once you win at Bellerock they like to cut back what you can deposit. They are sore losers. If your waiting for them to approve anything you could be in for a long wait. I have been waiting for over a month now. Guess they just don't care.
 
tombomb said:
reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.

gotta agree about their CS, in my last conversation with one of their agents, he told me he was the SENIOR agent, the highest authority within river belle that I could speak to and that his word was FINAL, what arrogance!
 
gotta agree about their CS, in my last conversation with one of their agents, he told me he was the SENIOR agent, the highest authority within river belle that I could speak to and that his word was FINAL, what arrogance!

He was probably hired 2 days ago... :lolup:

Although possibly he was told when he was hired that he was the "new senior agent"... :rolleyes:
 
Hi,

this is my 1st post and i am quite new to online gaming, but i too am having severe problems with bellerock!
I have had a good wn at Gaming Club and upon requested have sent them my ID, now i have received an email stating:


"We are sorry to inform you that there are discrepancies with the documents that you have sent us.

Therefore we have no other choice but to have your account locked and refund your initial deposit

back to your Neteller account.



If you are unsatisfied with any part of our decision, please feel free to contact us and we will bring

your case to Ecogra for an unbiased review.

I have emailed them numerous times and asked for the reasons behind this but i'm getting no replies whatsoever, i also asked them to get Ecogra to investigate as i can see no reason for them not to pay me!

This definitly doesnt make me feel confident to continue playing with them!

What can be done? Anything?
 
You can PM their rep on here (username bellerock) or file a dispute with ecogra.

Failing that you can 'Pitch a Bitch' here and Bryan would hopefully look into it for you.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
You can PM their rep on here (username bellerock) or file a dispute with ecogra.

Failing that you can 'Pitch a Bitch' here and Bryan would hopefully look into it for you.

sorry have to disagree about the PM rep route, I've sent a detailed PM regrading my cashout problem with supporting copies of online chat with CS over the weekend.

the rep has been online here today but did not even have the courtesy to drop me a quick PM to say they will look into my problem.
 
Let_It_Ride said:
the rep has been online here today but did not even have the courtesy to drop me a quick PM to say they will look into my problem.
The rep's just been using the same li(n)e as CS about "discrepancies" with documents while giving no details that would actually explain his group's actions. It's truly absurd when you get to the stage of having to contact eCOGRA or perhaps pitch a bitch here to have a chance of finding out what the problem's supposed to be.
 
Vesuvio said:
The rep's just been using the same li(n)e as CS about "discrepancies" with documents while giving no details that would actually explain his group's actions. It's truly absurd when you get to the stage of having to contact eCOGRA or perhaps pitch a bitch here to have a chance of finding out what the problem's supposed to be.

Yep, I can confirm this is what is happening with me, I'm giving the rep till tomorrow to at least have the courtesy to acknowledge my latest PM (X2 previous ones rec'd no response), if no joy then it's time to PAB, it looks like there is more than just me suffering the same problem and that does not look good. This is looking like rogue behaviour and I thought this lot were reputable!!:eek2:

This lot are bang out of order and I want all money I'm owed.
 
Hi All,

Unfortunately there is a discrepancy with the both Vesuvio and Marcholmes's accounts. The very fact that we have asked them to have their documents verified shows that we have found a problem that needs to be resolved. The request is not unreasonable as we have an obligation to protect our business and our players.

Until such time as we receive certified documents the accounts in question will remain closed. I am not in a position to give any further information on the board, however should eCOGRA or Casinomeister become involved the information will be shared with them in order to clarify our position.

Best regards,

Belle Rock.
 
bellerock you wish to comment on my delayed payment and several false promises made by your CS?

your silence speaks volumes !!!!!!!!
 
bellerock said:
The very fact that we have asked them to have their documents verified shows that we have found a problem that needs to be resolved. The request is not unreasonable as we have an obligation to protect our business and our players.
Bellerock, as I've repeated again and again - "verifying" documents, whatever that actually means, is a complete irrelevance here. The documents are exactly as sent to you (everything in them can easily be verified by you through other sources in 5 minutes). If there's a problem then this will get nowhere closer to resolving it. The suggestion that you have any interest in protecting your players here isn't worthy of comment. Protecting your business by avoiding paying out winnings when you'd have happily pocketed the deposit if I'd lost - I suppose yes.

bellerock said:
Until such time as we receive certified documents the accounts in question will remain closed. I am not in a position to give any further information on the board, however should eCOGRA or Casinomeister become involved the information will be shared with them in order to clarify our position.
What you, or the casino, are in a position to do is explain in private to players the reason for confiscating a significant amount of money. As has been mentioned elsewhere on this board that's the bare minimum that should be required of a reputable casino. I will write to eCOGRA, but I consider having to appeal to a third-party simply to find out what the dispute is supposed to be disgraceful.
 
I'm sorry bellerock but asking for documents to be verrified by the POLICE is totally unreasonable and utter nonsense.

Please explain to me how someone should go about doing that? And I take it you will cover the costs involved?

You should either make the deicision to decline the documents AND give the actual reason for this or accept them.

Asking for documents to be verrified is a total joke and totally unreasonable.
 
bellerock.

You have replied to my PM but yet again you've not answered my question which were:

What is the discrepency?
How am I supposed to get the police to certify my documents?

I've just added some new questions:
can I get a solicitor (a lawyer) to verify my documents?
Where do the procedures or t+c's state that certified docs are to be supplied, surely the fact these are official docs anyway means they are certified?

And I see you say you'll happily share all info with eCogra or casinomeister so why won't you tell me why you're doing this to me by answering my questions? All you do is say the same thing about me supplyign 'certified' docs.
:mad:
 
Bellerock has also given me the same response to my PM, that there is discrepecies with my documents which i know is 100% a false statement but he will not go any furhter, completely useless!
I am now forced to go to Ecogra but to be honest i am resigned to never seeing my winnings but i do know for sure either way i will never be playing at any bellerock casino again, they are a complete joke!
 
marcholmes said:
Where do the procedures or t+c's state that certified docs are to be supplied, surely the fact these are official docs anyway means they are certified?
Shockingly there is something about this in the t&cs:

no substantial and/or exceptional cash-ins individually and cumulatively shall be made unless notarized facsimile copies of at least 2 (two) of the following are received:
Your:
most recent bank statement for the bank account from which your wagers have been paid;
driver's license;
social security card or a similar document; or
current and valid passport.
So unless you want to be treated like a criminal if you have a substantial win (& a notarized copy of ID costs about GBP80) this group should be avoided by all players.
 
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