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WARNING! non-payment of winnings at acropolis casino

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by camelcharly, Jun 3, 2006.

    Jun 3, 2006
  1. camelcharly

    camelcharly Dormant account

    job owner

    Hello.My name is cc.I'm a Japanese onlinecasino player and
    webmaster of online casino BLOG.(not an affiliater.)

    I deposit
    $5000 6th March
    $1000 7th March

    without recieving any bonus to acropolis casino.

    I played a lot,and won a lot!
    My deposit was increased to $30,000!

    and I made withdraw 19th March.

    sent me an e-mail 21th March.

    Dear cc,

    Thank you for choosing Acropolis Casinos.

    We are currently processing your withdrawal request. To complete this process, we must ask that you forward a notarized copy of your photo ID to:

    Acropolis Casinos
    *** Building, *** Floor
    *** Road
    West Indies

    Express mail is recommended, as regular post may take 2-3 weeks. Once the requested document is received, it will be added to a secure file and we will advise you accordingly on the matter.

    We deeply regret any inconvenience caused, but such steps are necessary for security purposes.

    Thank you for your cooperation.


    Acropolis Casinos Finance Team

    I have sent my picture ID several weeks ago by e-mail,
    Do I need to send it again by international express mail??

    Acropolis casino sent me another e-mail next day.

    TITLE:Acropolis player account closed
    Dear Player ACRO2621432

    We have marked your play as suspicious; our software has never encountered the speed of play which you are playing thus making us suspicious about the applications you may be running on the system. Please note that the terms and conditions to which you agreed when they download the casino client specifically refer to robots as follows.

    The casino decision is final and further discussion will not be entered into.

    4.1 You are not permitted to:

    4.1.6 Enter, access or attempt to enter or access or otherwise bypass the our security system or interfere in any way (including but not limited to, robots and similar devices) with the Online Casino or the Website or attempt to make any changes to the Software and/or any features or components thereof.

    9.6 We may at any time without prior notice to you terminate your use of the Online Casino and block your Player Account if it considers that you are in breach of any of the terms and provisions of this Agreement or that you are otherwise acting illegally. We will not be under any obligation in such circumstances to refund or otherwise reimburse you for any of the funds in your Player Account.

    Ian Williams

    Casino Director

    Acropolis Casino


    Off course,I have never used such robot or something.
    All program runnning on my PC is Acropolis casino,outlook express,Microsoft excels and Internet explorer.
    I played with my own hands!!!!!

    I felt that they junt don't want to pay when players win big.

    (to be continued..)
    1 person likes this.
  2. Jun 3, 2006
  3. camelcharly

    camelcharly Dormant account

    job owner
    non payment of winnings at acropolis casino(2)

    I scared and replied the mail.

    cc wrote:

    I played with my own hands.

    I never used robots and similar devices.

    Your software has never encountered the speed of play which I am playing?

    OK come to Japan and I will play exactly same speed as I played in front of you.

    Are you trying to decieve my money???


    Pay ME NOW!




    Ian Williams(Acropolis casino) wrote:

    The Casino decision is final.

    In our expert opinion, it is impossible that a human player can play, legally, as fast as you have done and to a perfect strategy 100% of the time, we have seen billions of hand of BJ. To this end we are confident that you are using robots or a similar device.

    This is against the rules of the casino set out in my previous mail.

    Best regards

    Ian Williams

    Acropolis Casino Director

    I swear I played with my own hands without using any applications.

    If,If he just check correctly and he should notice that it is nothing difficult playing with my speed.
    And I don't think my play was 100% perfect,so
    If they just check all of my actions,they should notice that my play was not 100% perfect.

    All they have to do is just check carefully and they should notice I am innocent!

    If an "expert" see my account and he will know I'm innocent 100%.

    Why they don't check like that?

    Because they just not want to pay!

    I liked this casino and believed that they are trust worthy.
    But they are far from it.


    I told this issue to all affiliaters affiliate Acropolis casino in Japan
    ,several major good portal online casino website.

    I wrote about this issue in my BLOG and my BBS
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    (to be continued..)
  4. Jun 3, 2006
  5. camelcharly

    camelcharly Dormant account

    job owner
    non payment of winnings at acropolis casino(3)

    Several affiliaters replied to my mail.
    Many Japanese webmasters and players believed me and got angry.
    (Because I am a webmaster of onlinecasino BLOG and they know me well.)
    They write about insincerity of Acropolis casino at BBS and their BLOGs
    one player made banner to publish at BLOGs.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The casino said to me:
    The Casino decision is final.

    Fortunately my own $30,000 was paid.


    If I'm not a webmaster of BLOG and no one believes me..
    If there are no support of Mr ocf and Mr Spearmaster...

    I think my winnings are not paid.


    This is not only happen to me.

    Mr.Nettela (also Japanese player and webmaster of casino blog) won $33,000
    at AcropolisCasino and he also received a mail from Acropolis saying
    We may at any time without prior notice to you terminate your use of the Online Casino and block your Player Account if it considers that you are in breach of any of the terms and provisions of this Agreement or that you are otherwise acting illegally. We will not be under any obligation in such circumstances to refund or otherwise reimburse you for any of the funds in your Player Account.

    It took 2.5 month to be paid his own money.

    My money was paid so I don't need to complain here.
    But,I just wanted to tell all good players about this issue.

    Without bonus,
    Without any cheating device,
    With the casino accredited by the world best watch dog site,

    My winnings are almost forfeited without any good reason.

    I think it could happen to you.
  6. Jun 3, 2006
  7. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    Welcome to Casinomeister, CC!

    Your issue was resolved because I explained to the casino that robots do not give players any advantage in the first place, and secondly I believed that you did not use a robot in any case.

    After a short discussion it was determined that nothing was wrong, hence your winnings were released.

    As for Mr. Netella - his funds were apparently released on the same day but for some inexplicable reason Playtech support did not process the payment - I checked up on that earlier this week and the casino itself had to go and apply pressure to Playtech - the slow payment was not the casino's fault.

    While I can't speak for the casino, I am sure they regret the inconvenience caused.

    I hope I have the privilege of seeing you again on my next trip to Japan.

    Best regards,

    2 people like this.
  8. Jun 3, 2006
  9. camelcharly

    camelcharly Dormant account

    job owner
    Thank you!Spear master!

    Thank you for everything !
    I wish to express my gratitude.

    The issue has not solved without your help!


    The probrem is exactly there.

    Without your help,the issue might not have been solved.

    It will happen to any players won big at this casino
    and if the player don't know whom to consult
    his winnings are forfeited.


    I don't think the casino regret the inconvenience caused.

    They do not say an apology to me.
    They send me only this e-mail.


    I have instructed the accounts team to pay all outstanding balances that are in your account to your preferred payment method. Hopefully this will be done today.

    Unfortunately, the decision to close the casino account has been upheld.

    Thank you for your business.

    Best regards,


    They made my account closed.

    If they believe I'm innocent,why do they close my account?

    (It's OK.I don't want to play at that casino again.:D Just curious.)

    I don't want anything more from Acropolis casino,
    I'm not angry with this casino any more.

    I just wanted to let online casino players know about this issue and
    let them prevent from the cheat of the casino.

    3 people like this.
  10. Jun 3, 2006
  11. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    Without my help, you could perhaps have used Casinomeister's Pitch-A-Bitch, or in some cases, eCOGRA or Montana depending on the casino.

    Ultimately, however, we are all here to help ensure a level playing field for all. Sometimes misunderstandings occur, sometimes there are differing viewpoints.

    In a perfect world, none of these misunderstandings would happen - but they do - that's why there are courts in every country as well.

    Maybe they didn't say it very nicely. The end result is still the money in your account.

    A casino may close any account it wishes provided it has paid out all monies due to the player, for any reason it chooses, much like a private club. This happens at land-based casinos as well.

    Let's face it - you beat their pants off :) If there was any one reason I would choose to be the reason for my account being closed, this is it - perhaps the ultimate compliment the casino can pay you. Kerry Packer had this done to him when he beat the MGM Mirage for a large sum of money - and I believe also at a few other casinos - so it really isn't that unusual.

    Unfortunately, unlike you, I am every casino's favorite member because I keep losing!

    Congratulations again :)
    2 people like this.
  12. Jun 3, 2006
  13. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Spear - thanks for helping him out.

    Players have few advocates. It's nice of you to take the time to help him.
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jun 3, 2006
  15. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    nice hit and good news they paid you, don't worry about them closing your account, why give them a chance to get it back. There are some good casinos out there, give them your business instead :thumbsup:
  16. Jun 3, 2006
  17. Flavio4321

    Flavio4321 Dormant account

    question to camelcharly

    Can you tell me how many hands were you playing, and what is the speed at wich you played those hands. I mean when they say "billions of hands of BJ" are they saying that you alone play a billion hands of BJ?, or is it my english that is getting it wrong.
    My top BJ speed is around 800 hands per hour at Microgaming software, I dont remember my top speed at playtech.

    by the way, nice win !!
  18. Jun 3, 2006
  19. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    From the way he writes i sense that chamelcharly is a very clever person. He explains everything very ratioanally and i am glad he took all his money.But i would not want him as a gambling opponent. I think spearmaster has done a very good job here. But i also think that the casino was clearly trying to cheat chamel from his money and i believe this casino deserves no good words. It does not matter that chamel took his money. The casino tried to cheat but failed. Cheating while gambling and attempting to cheat are exactly the same things. And cheating must be severely punished.
  20. Jun 4, 2006
  21. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Fishing :)
    Last i remember Acropolis was being "managed" by Golden Palace. Is that still the case or am i all wrong here?

    PS- Kudos to Spear and thanks to OP for bringing this matter to the forum.
  22. Jun 4, 2006
  23. TheBloke

    TheBloke Dormant account

    Database programmer
    I don't think that's ever been the case (are you thinking of Aspinalls?)

    Acropolis is run by the Stanley Leisure group, who own many B+M casinos and bingo halls across the UK (and maybe the world, not sure)

    So they're a big group, and therefore you would expect them to be completely reputable.
  24. Jun 4, 2006
  25. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Fishing :)
    Yes, sorry.
  26. Jun 4, 2006
  27. nektar4d

    nektar4d Dormant account

    European Union
    Very interesting story indeed

    Acropolis is not Stanleys anymore:
    where u will see that:

    It was about time the new management show its face.
    Typical trick to avoid payment.
    Its impressive and funny the excuse used in this case, since there couldn't be any bonus-related excuses.

    Of course, there are other playtech casinos which would close the account and just return the deposit...Compared to them, this result is fine.
    Nevertheless, players should be careful from now on.

    Thanks to CC and Spearmaster for the information.

    P.S. CC, many players would love to see more details about your winning strategy ;) Not any personal secrets (which you can use at other playtech casinos;) but your general game: e.g. hand value? single or multi hand blackjack, perhaps surrender etc
  28. Jun 4, 2006
  29. camelcharly

    camelcharly Dormant account

    job owner
    Thanks for the comments everyone :)

    Spearmaster san

    Thank you again!!ARIGATOOOO!
    I will treat you the Japanese Best Coffee when you come to Japan drink:

    Let it Ride san
    Thank you! You are also invited to the coffee shop;)

    Flavio4321 san
    Thank you Flavio san:)

    I played BlackJackSwtch most of the time.
    In BlackJackSwitch,players play 2hands at 1game
    and I think I played 360games/1hour (720hands/1hour)

    Even if I say exaggeratedly,I played not more than 20000games.
    I don't remember well (and my account was closed so I can't check:D )
    I think I played 5000-15000 games from 6th Mar to 19th Mar.
    Before Feb,I think I played around 30minutes/month at that casino.

    dreamtheatre san
    That's what I wanted to say.:thumbsup:

    paul02085 san
    TheBloke san
    nektar4d san

    Ian Willams was the maneger of Acropolis Casino since the casino was member of Stanley Leisure.

    Very similar case happened 1.5years ago.

    Oct 2004,the Japanese high roller whos name is "Yoshimura Kannichiro"
    won more than $60,000 at Crockfords Casino(Member of Stanley Leisure Group)
    and he was refused to pay.

    The casino says
    I know Mr.Yoshimura well.(He is also a webmaster of onlinecasino BLOG and is my friend.)
    He is the last man to use his skills to "change the odds considerably and moved them into his favour".
    On the contrary,he did not know how to use even "paint"!
    He has very poor skills of computer!

    (The casino finally paid the total amount to Yoshimura.
    It took about 2month to make casino pay Yoshimura's money.)

    I played BlackJackSwitch.
    The strategy of BJS is more difficult than BlackJack,so I played watching this page.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The house edge of this game(Playtec rule) "was" only 0.02% at that time. But the rule has changed to LasVegas rule.
    Under Las Vegas rules the house edge is 0.18%.

    The comp ratio is 0.1%-0.15%,and player had advantage:)
    1 person likes this.
  30. Jun 4, 2006
  31. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Actually gambling debts are often considered 'contrary to public policy' and not enforceable.

    That is why regulation is a good thing - and also to avoid organisations like ECOGRA, which can never be as objective as say the British gambling commission would be, since they are a bunch of casinos regulating themselves in effect.

    Got to love the flattery of casino owners not knowing that blackjack cannot be beaten, and trying to rob you because they frankly don't know what they are doing.

    The fact that this happened in the first place makes it plain that they are not in full possession of the knowledge of how casino games work to be running a casino.

    There is no way to be sure of a win - just good luck.

    Pretty scary that the casino managers don't know what they are doing.
  32. Jun 4, 2006
  33. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    I look forward to it, CC-san! :)

    Actually, Ian-san only just recently took over when Acropolis was sold to Leisure & Gaming Corp.

    Actually, that was me too. I talked to the senior manager at that time, and told him basically the same thing - that one could not tamper with the software client to gain an advantage. That manager agreed and released the funds - it's too bad he's not involved anymore because I had met him on a number of occasions and genuinely liked him, and he realizes that it was a mistake, but his decision was based on the report from his staff.

    Strangely enough, those were the only two issues that I can recall that ever occurred with Acropolis/Crockfords Casino, both involving Japanese players. So strange, because Acropolis and Crockfords otherwise had very good names and Stanley Leisure, when they owned them, would go out of their way to make sure that their players were happy.

    But they were not well-marketed, and internally quite naive, so unfortunately a few mistakes were made which I am sure they regret.

    Anyhow, many of us were wondering how you did so well - so thank you for revealing that you simply beat the game on comps - very simple to understand, but ultimately why PT went to Las Vegas rules!
    2 people like this.
  34. Jun 4, 2006
  35. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    He did not beat the game on comps. He says he deposited on 6 and 7 March, when the Playtech casinos were dealing a blackjack switch game with about 0.7% house edge. Even before the change, BJS with optimal strategy and standard comp points rates gave the player an advantage of less than 0.1%. You would have to play several millions of hands to to benefit from it with certainty.
  36. Jun 4, 2006
  37. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    He said:

    I took him at his word.
  38. Jun 5, 2006
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    STILL At Leisure
    United Kingdom

    Microgaming are not worried about Robots, they supply one in Viper!!!!

    As for hand speed, unusual streak, etc. I once played a run of Vegas Strip Microgaming Blackjack as an experiment in the effect of the Autoplay.
    After 80,000 hands I ended up 800 stake units AHEAD. Turning $6000 into $30000 would have required $30 per hand with the exact same game outcomes, hardly unusual for a player prepared to deposit $5000 in one go to stake $30 or more per hand!
    With the low house edge and high comps, the whole game had a player edge, but even if it didn't, Online casinos ARE capable of this sort of run, and it doesn't mean the player had tampered with the software, in the same way that LOSING 800 units in a freak run of BJ does not necessarily mean the casino is rigged.

    360 games an hour is not unreasonable, but maybe if this lasts for hours with no break as well, all leads the casino to suspect a robot device. If it was the case that the comp rate exceeded the house edge, then a robot really would give the player an advantage!

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