bellerock being akward over ID - locked accs and no payouts.

[marcholmes]

Shockingly there is something about this in the t&cs:


So unless you want to be treated like a criminal if you have a substantial win (& a notarized copy of ID costs about GBP80) this group should be avoided by all players.

Yep, you're right, I missed the word 'notarized' so no complaints there.

Then again, the latest response from bellerock is

Unfortunately I cannot tell you what the discrepancy is.

Any commissioner of oaths should be able to certify your documents. It would require his name and contact details. Basically he is confirming that you are the person that he met, and that the documents are genuine. Yes I beleive a lawyer is a commissioner of oaths. It does not state that certified documents are required in the T&C's, but it does state that we can request any documents that we feel necessary.

I'll get my Solicitor to certify these docs and it'll be sorted by tomorrow so there should be no excuses now.

 

[GrandMaster]

Shockingly there is something about this in the t&cs:


So unless you want to be treated like a criminal if you have a substantial win (& a notarized copy of ID costs about GBP80) this group should be avoided by all players.

You can get a page notarized for 10 which is still excessive, you can also get things certified by a Justice of the Peace for free.

 

[WAYLANDER]

I have noticed that all the players with problems (marcholmes, vesuvio, shmoo, let it ride ) come from the uk.
As this is a document thing methinks this is more than a coincidence.
WAYLANDER

 

[vinylweatherman]

BelleRock

I am from the UK, and I did not have this trouble with Notarised documents and such nonsense.

BelleRock had damn well better be in the right about this, and the "discrepancies" had better not be due to their staff not knowing what UK Docs look like! The fact that all 4 complaints are from the UK makes me think so, as there have been many changes in UK documents over recent times, however, the government will not reissue new format docs to everybody, but are saving costs by waiting till such come for renewal in the natural course of events.

It might be of interest for these players to say which documents they have sent, and when they were issued, and whether new issuances of these documents are now in a different format.
Particular issues could be with the Driving Licence, with several formats being in circulation simultaneously, all currently valid at present, and ONLY reissued when the holder moves house, changes driving categories, or has the licence "cleaned" after acumulating penalty points.
Passports were recently changed too, and old format ones are still around as they are valid for 10 years.

If the complainants complain to eCogra, eCogra will be able to tell you what the problem was, and what their decision about it was.
In the case of BelleRock, you can take them to court (In Gibraltar) over any wrongs, although not for the winnings as they are not enfoceable in law (Gaming debt) You could also make an objection to the Gibraltean authorities about their handling of the case.

One complaint might suggest a "dodgy claim", but FOUR having the same problem and all from the UK looks like a procedural issue.

My Mother had to have Notarised copies done, and had each one done for 5 at a Commisioner for Oaths. There are set rules on who can Notarise a document, and if you know the "Right people" among family and friends you may get it done as a personal favour at minimal cost (or even free as mentioned).

80 a time looks like a solicitor, not necessary, but they may not want to say that & lose out on 80!

 

[soflat]

Definitely a group to avoided.

It is shameful that they won't tell the players what the discrepancies are but they will share it with others. They shouldn't be passing around copies of people's social security cards and drivers licenses.

How about Belle Rock's security personnel post their own documents here so we can all verify THEM?

 

[Let_It_Ride]

Definitely a group to avoided.

It is shameful that they won't tell the players what the discrepancies are but they will share it with others. They shouldn't be passing around copies of people's social security cards and drivers licenses.

it is strange that they won't tell the ppl concerned what the problem is but are happy to share that info with a 3rd party. IMO why are they doing this, it's because if they tell you what's wrong you'll be able to correct them within minutes and they'll no longer have BS excuses to delay your payments, because that's what the game is with these guys, to delay your payments!

anyways in my case it was nothing to do with documents, the problem was as I said they tried every BS excuse in the book to deny me my payout, which in the end was only 100 euro win , like what about £70 odd pounds!

but finally the money is in my NETeller and my account with these guys has been closed.

 

[Vesuvio]

Thanks for the advice on notarised copies of documents, if it comes to that.

BelleRock had damn well better be in the right about this, and the "discrepancies" had better not be due to their staff not knowing what UK Docs look like!

I'm 100% sure this is nothing at all to do with the actual documents. No doubt their CS manual for delaying/avoiding payments tells them not to state what the problem is and just send out a form e-mail saying there are "discrepancies" with documents as an excuse for adding the extra hurdle of notarising ID. This takes the player time and money and after the delay they can still simply refuse to pay on the basis of "discrepancies" with the account. Whether they actually bother to say what they are at any point's another matter.

It might be of interest for these players to say which documents they have sent, and when they were issued, and whether new issuances of these documents are now in a different format.

As well as a bank statement I've also sent them the photo page of my passport (issued in the last few years) and the front of my photo driving licence which also shows the address. Again, I'm sure the documents are a red herring here.

 

[bellerock]

Hi All,

Just to be clear, we do not show copies of personal documents to anybody outside of our company. If the player lodges a dispute with eCOGRA or the Casinomeister to pursue this on their behalf they are giving them permission to look at the facts on the table in order to make an informed decision, and this may include documents that are on hand. Without the players permission however the documents remain confidential.

Best regards,

Belle Rock

 

[marcholmes]

Hi All,

Just to be clear, we do not show copies of personal documents to anybody outside of our company. If the player lodges a dispute with eCOGRA or the Casinomeister to pursue this on their behalf they are giving them permission to look at the facts on the table in order to make an informed decision, and this may include documents that are on hand. Without the players permission however the documents remain confidential.

Best regards,

Belle Rock

I still think it's shocking you won't tell me what the discrepency is supposed to be! It's like being charged of crime and sentanced without being able to offer a defence, it's shocking behaviour from a so called respectable casino in my opinion.

 

[Vesuvio]

If the player lodges a dispute with eCOGRA or the Casinomeister to pursue this on their behalf...

I'd be curious what eCOGRA or Bryan have to say about the fact that Bellerock are forcing people to contact them not to resolve a dispute but simply to find out what the dispute is supposed to be.

 

[Pinababy69]

I still think it's shocking you won't tell me what the discrepency is supposed to be! It's like being charged of crime and sentanced without being able to offer a defence, it's shocking behaviour from a so called respectable casino in my opinion.

I agree, what is the big secret? Unless, as Vesuvio and Let It Ride mentioned, it is simply to use any excuse in the book to not pay in a timely fashion. If anyone is entitled to be given full details, isn't it the player themselves?

 

[soflat]

Is anybody who is affected by this going to ask the Meister to get involved?

I'd really like to find out what they claim is a discrepency. And obviously BelleRock doesn't want us to know.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

I'd also be interested to know from those waiting for payment, is it winnings and how much or just your original deposits back. Also did you take a bonus and fulfil the WR.

Just trying to get a clear picture.

 

[vinylweatherman]

BelleRock

Why has this only appeared to have affected 4 players from the UK?

How can ANY UK player know they will not suffer this fate unless they know what is going on here?

One of the players has now been paid, so can we presume they sent in the Notarised documents.

As far as I am concerned, you have accused these players of Fraud, but have done so in a very vague manner. I see no reason why a 70 win required Notarised documents under the T & C for "large" wins.

BelleRock have had a reputation for Incompetent CS, however I am getting an impression that the advice to PM the rep and get help is no longer working here.

A Notarised copy of a document that is simply faxed or uploaded or E-mailed makes no sense at all - it can be just as fake or real as an ordinary copy!

If the documents all carry personal details that are identical, then there is no "inconsistency with the documents", there is another issue.
It looks like the minds of BelleRock have been made up, these players are frauds, but they are now fishing for evidence to back this up, hence all the hoops and hurdles.

If BelleRock has no case, I hope Bryan charges them $500 for wasting his time, as he would the players who make a fraudulent complaint, and make him look a fool/waste his time.

 

[furby]

First of all this is not a UK player problem, I am resident in Germany, and played at Gaming Club in Euros. I deposited 50 Euros and received a 200 signup bonus. I made a withdrawal of 498,50 on 27th May. On 29th May they sent me the following:

Thank you for choosing to play with Belle Rock Entertainment! Your security as a player is of the utmost importance to us and in a routine security check, we noticed that you have incomplete information registered at one of our online vendors.

As a precautionary measure we have temporarily suspended access to your account. To re-activate this account, please print and complete the form below and fax it to one of the toll free fax numbers below, or scan and email the form to verifyme@bellerockentertainment.com.

Please also include a clear copy of:

1. your photo ID (e.g. Driver's license, Passport, Government issued ID document)

2. a recent utility bill depicting your name and registered residential address (e.g. telephone, electricity, water etc.)

As soon as this information is received and reviewed, we will re-activate your account.

I scanned in and sent the documents, including the signed form, on 1st June. My money did not arrive, I received no reply, and my account remained locked, so on 5th June I wrote asking why, and got the following:

Thank you for emailing Belle Rock Entertainment.

Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Kindly be advised that our Operations Department has not received the documentation, hence the matter is not resolved. May we request that you resend the documentation?

We suggest you send it via e-mail to the e-mail address below:

verifyme@bellerockentertainment.com

Please ensure that the attachment is no larger than 3 megabytes. Also, if you have more than one attachment, we advise sending them in separate emails.

I checked my "sent" folder, and I had sent all the documents to verifyme@bellerockentertainment.com. Anyway, I sent them again.

I have just received the following:

Thank you for choosing to play with Belle Rock Entertainment!

We have received your documentation and would like to thank you for your efforts thus far.

In order to finalize this matter, we hereby request that you kindly provide certified copies of the documents at your earliest convenience.

We look forward to hearing from you.

If you have any questions or need any clarification, please don't hesitate to contact us on any of the numbers below, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
We look forward to your co-operation in helping us protect your funds.

What bothers me is:

1. I checked the first email they sent me again, it said

As soon as this information is received and reviewed, we will re-activate your account.

I sent the information, but instead of re-activating my account as promised, they denied receiving it, and then added a new condition that the documents be certified.

2. Sending a scan of a certified copy is nonsense. As soon as the certified copy is scanned or faxed, it is a copy of a certified copy, and is no more useful than the original faxed copy.

3. Certifying a copy will involve me in time and expense. I've never done it before, but I certainly don't want to go to a solicitor and ask what he'd charge to do it.

4. It appears that I've become the victim of a scam that Belle Rock are using on a number of their customers to avoid having to pay them. I don't feel like jumping through these hoops for them, I have been gambling online for a while and am quite used to sending copies of id etc, nobody has ever asked me for a scanned certified copy, which is a nonsense anyway.

5. They have not mentioned any "discrepancies", or asked that the police certify the documents, so they must be learning something from this thread, but instead of taking on board customer complaints they seem more interested in refining their scam.

I also notice that not once have they mentioned my withdrawal, made 27th May, just commented on the suspension of access to my account, as if that was the only issue and that they weren't hanging on to my valid withdrawal at all.

I will pm the rep here and pitch a bitch. I am quite happy for casinomeister to see all documents and other details of my account, he will find nothing amiss.

 

[furby]

I've just checked my emails and was delighted to find the following:

It's Bet and Get at The Gaming Club Online Casino, and
that means more credits and more fun!

Wager at least 300 credits on the following summer
loving game: Spring Break Slot for your chance to win a bright
20 credits!

Don't forget about our Road Trip promotion, where you can
get your motor running with a $2,500 cash prize every week
toward the summer vacation of your dreams!

You've only got 3 days to earn these extra credits, so get
cruisin'.

Click here to enter the promotion.

Sure I will, I know my deposits are safe with Belle Rock!

 

[Vesuvio]

I'd also be interested to know from those waiting for payment, is it winnings and how much or just your original deposits back. Also did you take a bonus and fulfil the WR.

Minimal details pending eCOGRA looking at this, but I deposited, got a bonus and met the wr playing slots, ending up with well over 500 in winnings.

So far I've received my deposit but no winnings, so Bellerock have pocketed themselves over $1000.

Note I was lucky. I could easily have lost my deposit (as I just have at another casino with an equivalent offer), in which case of course Bellerock would have kept my money.

 

[shmoo]

I deposited, received a bonus and completed the wagering with a profit of over 400 playing slots. i sent them a recent utility bill and the photo page of my passport which was issued last year!
I have lodged a complaint with Ecogra but they have asked me not to post on any forums or get anyone else involved til they have finished, so i will let everyone know the result when i have it!

 

[marcholmes]

Is anybody who is affected by this going to ask the Meister to get involved?

I'd really like to find out what they claim is a discrepency. And obviously BelleRock doesn't want us to know.

I'll only get him involved if I don't get the money I am due.
I started this thread as I believed it to be a very unusual request from a casino group and it only came after I had sent them my ID on about 6 previous occasions (they claimed they could not see any attachments every time) and I was not getting answers to direct questions.

 

[soflat]

It's amazing that any casino would lock out slot players.

 

[Linus]

Belle Rock,

Thank you for soliciting me to play at Belle Rock Entertainment. My security as a player is of utmost importance to me, and in a routine reputation check, I noticed you have a large number of complaints, as well as incomplete information registered about the integrity of the people who run your company.

As a precautionary measure, I have temporarily suspended my interest in playing at Bell Rock Entertainment. To re-activate that interest, please print and complete the form below and scan it and email the form to me at my email address.

Please also include a clear copy of:

1. your photo ID (e.g. Driver's license, Passport, Government issued ID document), as well as the photo ID of any person at Belle Rock Entertainment who may have access to any of my personal or financial information, or who is or may be involved in any decision about whether to pay me

2. a recent utility bill depicting your name and registered residential address (e.g. telephone, electricity, water etc.) as well as the photo ID of any person at Belle Rock Entertainment who may have access to any of my personal or financial information, or who is or may be involved in any decision about whether to pay me.

As soon as this information is received and reviewed, I will re-activate my interest in Belle Rock Entertainment. Please note, I may pretend not to get your documents, the first several times you send them. Also, I may require certified and/notorized copies of all the documents you've already sent. We'll just have to wait and see how that works out.

Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused.

And thank for soliciting me as a player at Belle Rock Entertainment!

 

[vtlady]

Bellerock

Bellerock probably spent all their money merging with Trident Entertainment?
What do you think? If money is taken from an account for deposits into a casino then what's the big deal about putting it back into the same account?

 

[spearmaster]

Nice one Linus... LOL...

 

[Let_It_Ride]

Belle Rock,

Thank you for soliciting me to play at Belle Rock Entertainment. My security as a player is of utmost importance to me, and in a routine reputation check, I noticed you have a large number of complaints, as well as incomplete information registered about the integrity of the people who run your company.

As a precautionary measure, I have temporarily suspended my interest in playing at Bell Rock Entertainment. To re-activate that interest, please print and complete the form below and scan it and email the form to me at my email address.

Please also include a clear copy of:

1. your photo ID (e.g. Driver's license, Passport, Government issued ID document), as well as the photo ID of any person at Belle Rock Entertainment who may have access to any of my personal or financial information, or who is or may be involved in any decision about whether to pay me

2. a recent utility bill depicting your name and registered residential address (e.g. telephone, electricity, water etc.) as well as the photo ID of any person at Belle Rock Entertainment who may have access to any of my personal or financial information, or who is or may be involved in any decision about whether to pay me.

As soon as this information is received and reviewed, I will re-activate my interest in Belle Rock Entertainment. Please note, I may pretend not to get your documents, the first several times you send them. Also, I may require certified and/notorized copies of all the documents you've already sent. We'll just have to wait and see how that works out.

Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused.

And thank for soliciting me as a player at Belle Rock Entertainment!

nice1

and the bellerock rep asked me yesterday why I found their reply unsatisfactory, I think the above says it all, but just in case bellerock is still unsure, it's because you guys have no respect for your customers what so ever.

 

[shmoo]

Right now i'm getting angry!

Ive received a reply from Ecogra, very quick it was too! I cannot beleive they are saying exactly the same as Bellerock, see below for Tex's reply:

"We have investigated your query with the casino and after a thorough review have found that the casino has acted appropriately and have exercised their rights under the terms and conditions. For reasons of confidentiality the discrepancies will not be revealed.

Bearing the above in mind I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid.

Regards,

Tex Rees"

I am amazed that this organisation who is supposed to look after players is following exactly the same line as Bellerock. I am not getting paid my account will stay closed and i will not be told why! Apparantly this is fair and honest behaviour according to Ecogra!

Like i said previously, i had given up on getting paid but wanted to know why? Now my faith has been shattered completely in the whole online gaming industry as its a gamble in itself whether a casino will even pay back your deposit, with no fair organisation policing these casinos what chance do we all have?