bellerock being akward over ID - locked accs and no payouts.

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marcholmes

Banned User - bogus claim - violation of <a href="
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
uk
Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
I don't want to say much more pending a complaint to eCOGRA, but for me this issue has finally resolved one of the continual mysteries of on-line casinos: were the random reversals of cash-ins, nonsensical responses of CS and general disarray at Bellerock simply incompetence or a deliberate attempt to try and increase profits? Clearly the latter.

Just two points: 1) the "discrepancies" in the documents provided are an obvious lie (some basis in fact might be possible if just one or two people received it after sending in normal ID, but it's clearly sent out to everyone caught up in this).

2) "certifying" ID is an absurdity. All that's going to happen, even if you can persuade someone to certify it, is that you then have to scan a photocopy rather than the original document - so Bellerock have the same document but of lower quality. Is it really so hard in this day and age to confirm ID through other means - i.e. through the electoral register (for the UK) or on the basis of bank cards etc.

The problem then is that as the certified ID issue is just a red herring you have to wonder what excuse Bellerock will come up with not to pay after you've wasted all the time and effort providing it.

Ok, enough said for now - but players would be advised to steer clear of this group in favour of places where they know they'll be paid quickly if they win.
 

el nino

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Location
Manchester
It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

I've played and won at casino no net and when it came to withdrawing money, there wasn't any problems. It was all done in 5 days. As for Monaco gold casino, they ask for two things:

1: photo copy of My driving license, front and back.

2: photo copy of the front and back of the debit card or credit card that was used to deposit money.

Why on earth do they ask for this?

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.
 

Linus

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Location
TX
FWIW, here's what a casino has to do, before taking a player's money, according to eCogra:

100.R.6 The locking of player accounts shall be conducted through a formal documented process.



Here's what eCogra has to do, to take away a seal:

The following must take place before a seal can be withdrawn:

(i) the eGAP rules are clear and unambiguous;

(ii) a person or entity is given a chance to rectify any shortcomings or non-compliance;

(iii) the natural justice rules are followed in relation to disciplinary proceedings; and

(iv) the eGAP and natural justice rules are consistently applied on a
case to case basis.

The three cardinal rules of natural justice are:

1. A person or entity has the right to know the case against him. This typically requires:

. adequate notice of the allegations
. adequate notice of the hearing
. adequate notice of the procedure for determining the alleged breach(es)

2. A person or entity must have a fair opportunity to answer the charges and
present his own case.

3. A person has the right to a decision from an unbiased decision-maker.


In other words, the casino gets, (among other things) -

-- a "chance to rectify" any shortcomings
-- a "fair opportunity" to answer charges
-- a hearing before an "unbiased" decisionmaker.

The player gets -

-- a "documented procedure."



I wouldn't hold my breath. I hope I'm wrong, though.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
el nino said:
It really annoys me when casinos ask for ID information.
It just shows how really dodgy they are and cannot me trusted.

...

There is no way that i am going to send them copies of my debit card with my driving license which has my address on it.
I do have a lot of sympathy for that. Judging by the way even "reputable" casinos have been behaving recently they're about the last people on earth I'd wish to have all that information. It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans. When I started playing I went through almost all the MG casinos without a single request for scans, though it was the norm at Playtech and RTG casinos.

Unfortunately the situation seems to have changed now and it's hard to play at casinos without providing ID, certainly if you actually win anything. There are one or two convincing reasons for it (even if I find it hard to take casinos talking about money laundering or under-age gambling very seriously), but overall I'm sure it's mainly there because they know they'll be able to find a reason not to pay a percentage of winners.

Anyway, I think sending scans is a necessary evil that has to be accepted if you want to play at on-line casinos. Asking for certified or notarized documents, on the other hand, is clear rogue behaviour and has no convincing justification. For an example: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ayment-of-winnings-at-acropolis-casino.12723/
 

Linus

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Location
TX
Vesuvio said:
It also seems that most sportsbooks (at least UK based) and casinos are able to do without scans.

Poker rooms - at least those not affiliated with casinos - don't ask for scans either.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
More BS

marcholmes said:
Basically I've had 4 accs with Bellerock locked and funds withheld (apart from 1 acc where the deposit has been returned but winnings withheld).

They have asked for ID which I have supplied with no bother (ID that has been good enough for other casino groups and Neteller).

Bellerock claim there is a discrepency with the docs supplied and now insist that I get the POLICE to certify the docs before they will re-open the accounts and payout the money I am owed.

This is bang out of order, for a start the police will not be interested in certifying documents over here.

I've emailed 'John' the bellerock rep on here but he's not been much use, he won't answer direct questions such as:

What are the document discrepncies?
How am I supposed to get the Police to certify the documents?

It's a shady move by this group and I'd watch out people.

It is the job of a "Swearer of Oaths" to provide certification of a copy. They do this by seeing IN PERSON the original documents, and themselves producing the copy, which they then attach a seal of certification to - which is the "Swearing of the Oath" that said copy represents evidence of a true original document.
By sending this in as a JPEG negates the whole damn thing!, as the JPEG itself is NOT a certified copy, rather a copy of what may, or may not be, a certified copy of an original document.

This ID crap is beginning to get out of hand! While it is actually a requirement by eCogra, it seems to go wrong because the staff tasked with verification are not PROPERLY TRAINED - Obviously so, as if they were, they would know the POLICE don't do what they told the player to get done.

Sending in the ID should be followed by getting paid, not by the run-around. If the ID is evidence of fraud, only then should accounts be locked. How would they like it if eCogra revoked their seal, and THEN started trying to sort out this problem. This is support AGAIN for making advance verification to the casino's satisfaction before accepting the first deposit COMPULSORY. There would be no opportunity to "pull a stunt", they would have to turn away the player before making a cent from them (it would encourage them to speed up the process too).
 

tombomb

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
right here
bellerock is good for

reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.
 

vtlady

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Location
USA
Bellerock

Also, once you win at Bellerock they like to cut back what you can deposit. They are sore losers. If your waiting for them to approve anything you could be in for a long wait. I have been waiting for over a month now. Guess they just don't care.
 

Let_It_Ride

Quit Gambling
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
europe
tombomb said:
reversing cashins,crediting bonuses slowly in the hopes youll play off the money or deposit more while waiting for the bonus.their customer service is second to none when it comes to imcompetence.I played them for years til they went to sh*t.Spent 10"s of thousands with them.wont use them again.They can suck it out of you other players from now on.and they will.

gotta agree about their CS, in my last conversation with one of their agents, he told me he was the SENIOR agent, the highest authority within river belle that I could speak to and that his word was FINAL, what arrogance!
 

mrracetrack

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Location
North of Pluto
gotta agree about their CS, in my last conversation with one of their agents, he told me he was the SENIOR agent, the highest authority within river belle that I could speak to and that his word was FINAL, what arrogance!

He was probably hired 2 days ago... :lolup:

Although possibly he was told when he was hired that he was the "new senior agent"... :rolleyes:
 

shmoo

Dormant account
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
Wigan, England
Hi,

this is my 1st post and i am quite new to online gaming, but i too am having severe problems with bellerock!
I have had a good wn at Gaming Club and upon requested have sent them my ID, now i have received an email stating:


"We are sorry to inform you that there are discrepancies with the documents that you have sent us.

Therefore we have no other choice but to have your account locked and refund your initial deposit

back to your Neteller account.



If you are unsatisfied with any part of our decision, please feel free to contact us and we will bring

your case to Ecogra for an unbiased review.

I have emailed them numerous times and asked for the reasons behind this but i'm getting no replies whatsoever, i also asked them to get Ecogra to investigate as i can see no reason for them not to pay me!

This definitly doesnt make me feel confident to continue playing with them!

What can be done? Anything?
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
You can PM their rep on here (username bellerock) or file a dispute with ecogra.

Failing that you can 'Pitch a Bitch' here and Bryan would hopefully look into it for you.
 

Let_It_Ride

Quit Gambling
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
europe
Dirk Diggler said:
You can PM their rep on here (username bellerock) or file a dispute with ecogra.

Failing that you can 'Pitch a Bitch' here and Bryan would hopefully look into it for you.

sorry have to disagree about the PM rep route, I've sent a detailed PM regrading my cashout problem with supporting copies of online chat with CS over the weekend.

the rep has been online here today but did not even have the courtesy to drop me a quick PM to say they will look into my problem.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
Let_It_Ride said:
the rep has been online here today but did not even have the courtesy to drop me a quick PM to say they will look into my problem.
The rep's just been using the same li(n)e as CS about "discrepancies" with documents while giving no details that would actually explain his group's actions. It's truly absurd when you get to the stage of having to contact eCOGRA or perhaps pitch a bitch here to have a chance of finding out what the problem's supposed to be.
 

marcholmes

Banned User - bogus claim - violation of <a href="
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
uk
Vesuvio said:
The rep's just been using the same li(n)e as CS about "discrepancies" with documents while giving no details that would actually explain his group's actions. It's truly absurd when you get to the stage of having to contact eCOGRA or perhaps pitch a bitch here to have a chance of finding out what the problem's supposed to be.

Yep, I can confirm this is what is happening with me, I'm giving the rep till tomorrow to at least have the courtesy to acknowledge my latest PM (X2 previous ones rec'd no response), if no joy then it's time to PAB, it looks like there is more than just me suffering the same problem and that does not look good. This is looking like rogue behaviour and I thought this lot were reputable!!:eek2:

This lot are bang out of order and I want all money I'm owed.
 

bellerock

Casino Representative
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
South Africa
Hi All,

Unfortunately there is a discrepancy with the both Vesuvio and Marcholmes's accounts. The very fact that we have asked them to have their documents verified shows that we have found a problem that needs to be resolved. The request is not unreasonable as we have an obligation to protect our business and our players.

Until such time as we receive certified documents the accounts in question will remain closed. I am not in a position to give any further information on the board, however should eCOGRA or Casinomeister become involved the information will be shared with them in order to clarify our position.

Best regards,

Belle Rock.
 

Let_It_Ride

Quit Gambling
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
europe
bellerock you wish to comment on my delayed payment and several false promises made by your CS?

your silence speaks volumes !!!!!!!!
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
bellerock said:
The very fact that we have asked them to have their documents verified shows that we have found a problem that needs to be resolved. The request is not unreasonable as we have an obligation to protect our business and our players.
Bellerock, as I've repeated again and again - "verifying" documents, whatever that actually means, is a complete irrelevance here. The documents are exactly as sent to you (everything in them can easily be verified by you through other sources in 5 minutes). If there's a problem then this will get nowhere closer to resolving it. The suggestion that you have any interest in protecting your players here isn't worthy of comment. Protecting your business by avoiding paying out winnings when you'd have happily pocketed the deposit if I'd lost - I suppose yes.

bellerock said:
Until such time as we receive certified documents the accounts in question will remain closed. I am not in a position to give any further information on the board, however should eCOGRA or Casinomeister become involved the information will be shared with them in order to clarify our position.
What you, or the casino, are in a position to do is explain in private to players the reason for confiscating a significant amount of money. As has been mentioned elsewhere on this board that's the bare minimum that should be required of a reputable casino. I will write to eCOGRA, but I consider having to appeal to a third-party simply to find out what the dispute is supposed to be disgraceful.
 
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