Bellavegas(Microgaming) won't pay 20K

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How can you say that the casino was ripped off here and not the player ?


How can you determine that I knew I am not at legal age for Bellavegas if I am telling you here and also back then that I really did not know.

Do you really think that I am going to risk thousands of thousands knowing I might not get paid.

I did not play the slots machine there.

I played thousands of $ a hand risking my money from my pocket just to take advantage of their games and promotions that I was offered from time to time.

They sent me special invitation, I was their customer.


I started to claim about the server jurisdiction only when Bellavegas brought the jurisdiction issue into the air, not before that.

What do you mean I had lost not a cent ?

I lost around 20,000 in winnings, winnings is my the balance in the casino, winnings is money.

I trusted the casino, the casinos act like a bank, they have to pay your balance once you cashout , they voided my winninngs.

Isn't it obvious that the player should be paid ? I really did not know that I am breaching any casino term here.

It is like if the casino says that my jurisdiction is to determine tax issues and if I don't pay tax I breached the law and I am going to be punished by the casino doing so ?

And again do you really believe honestly that $5000 is a small amount


What we argue in our email corespondence was because we tried to argue what is it to determine their server or my home, it was after they started with the excuses and the philosophy of not paying me.


Look at Grandprive, you sent them an email they even did not responded.

Caruso worked on that , nothing, they don't care. They took my 20,000 and gone


If you think it is waste of your time then it is waste of your time, I can not tell you what to do with your time, but I can say one thing, being a client there for couple of month playing there at a weekly basis, I had no idea I ever going to be banned there without getting paid.

I think you should reconsider all the case after I brought to your attention that a single cashout of more than $5000 was processed with no questions.
 
Casinomeister said:
I don't appreciate being called dumb in my own forum. If you feel that this is the way to handle this situation, take a hike Caruso - don't piss me off.

And I already mentioned that I was hoping to get something done with this, but you know what? Fuck it. I'm not wasting my time with this anymore.

So let me get this straight: I voice my opinion that the casino is collectively regarding us - "us" the PLAYERS, not you, casinos, affiliates, mediators or whoever else - as idiots. You decide to interpret this as a slight against you, on the bizarre basis that you form part of the collective "we" and I am therefore calling you "dumb" as a result :confused:; on THAT basis - on the basis of your misinterpretation of MY words, you say "fuck it", and penalise the PLAYER?? What did she do??

I've got that right, yes? That's how it works?

No WAY should this player be penalised for your issues with me. No way. That's flat out unfair. You want me to "apologise" for YOUR misinterpreation of my words? OK: if that means you won't carry through this threat to drop the matter and claim it as "my" fault, OK. I apologise. There.
 
Timbie - I apologise to you if my "interference" is going to be used to jeopardise any potential solution. Truly, I am really sorry if that happens. It totally busts my balls to see this happening to you. Other than it being your 20K not mine, one way or another I take this personal.
 
Oh, for God's sake stop being a martyr for a moment and address our host here with the respect he deserves, Caruso.

If you spent a moment breathing deeply and counting to ten before leaping all over your keyboard you would achieve way better results, and your attempt to force a confrontation here could be avoided.
 
caruso said:
Timbie - I apologise to you if my "interference" is going to be used to jeopardise any potential solution. Truly, I am really sorry if that happens. It totally busts my balls to see this happening to you. Other than it being your 20K not mine, one way or another I take this personal.

Caruso - there was a paragraph break between the "don't piss me off" statement and my opinion of the issue. These are two separate topics. Your in-the-face flag waving has nothing to do with my feelings about this. It's merely annoying. You didn't jeopardize any solution. It's still out there waiting for a response.

And don't assume I'm satisfied with this situation. I think it sucks. This casino should have had safeguards implemented to prevent this from happening. But they didn't - like many of their counterparts - and they expected their players to abide by the terms and conditions that explicitly stated:

In particular, determination of the legality of real money casino play is the Player's sole responsibility. By placing real wagers, the Player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that he/she accepts that CASINO GRAND BAY is unable to provide any warranties as to the legality or validity of their participation in real money play.

So what the hell?

I hope this thread serves a purpose. Perhaps it should be sending a message to ALL casino operators to up their legal ages to 21+. It would save a lot of headaches.
 
This reminds of the supposedly underage player at KISS casino who wasnt paid a dime. Most of 'us' mooted for the player then. Other than the 'jurisdiction' factor, what is the difference?
 
Casinomeister said:
You didn't jeopardize any solution. It's still out there waiting for a response.

Ah, thanks; thank goodness for that. I just lost six pounds this past half hour.:eek:

Good luck, Timbie. Hang in there.
 
Well, this is fun to read with my morning coffee. What is wrong with those of you who can't wait for a possible resolution to be worked out? Why do you feel the need to keep posting and posting? How many pages was the thread at WOL...is there really anything else that needed to be said here? Any new information? Bryan said he was trying to get something worked out, if you had just left it at that....maybe this player could have had some resolution. Now Bryan has washed his hands of it, and I don't blame him one bit, it's a dog to begin with. He asked you all very respectfully to keep this thread mellow (translated: don't start bashing the casino until he's had a chance to see if they are receptive to any of his suggestions). So I hope you are all happy now, and Autumn/Timbie, you can thank those who couldn't say enough is enough for losing you any chance you may have had of seeing any portion of your winnings. Big thumbs up to you guys!!!

Caruso, I do believe that your motives are pure, and your heart is in the right place, but seriously you need to work on diplomacy. You will never succeed in this industry without it. Sometimes you just have to learn not to say shit, even when you have a mouthful of it. JMO.
 
Its a fascinating topic. Its interesting to see how all parties, both those involved and those on the periphery, are championing various outcomes.

Legally (for what I know anyway), there is only one possible outcome on this. Its just a question of how this issue has an effect on the future. It could have much wider-ranging consequences than anyone has anticipated.
 
Of course it has been talked about at WOL.

The posts total represent a meeting of about half an hour of people talking face to face. Maybe an hour.

## The casino payed out previous wins because they never broached the 10k us anti money laundering laws.

## Is online gambling legal in Nevada? If not, Con, Micro etc should close all Nevada accounts and any other barred jurisictions.
 
wots WOL

Pinababy69 said:
Why do you feel the need to keep posting and posting? How many pages was the thread at WOL...is there really anything else that needed to be said here?

yeah but not everyone here also looks at WOL, infact I don't even know what it is :) so for me it's kinda interesting to follow this post.
 
Let_It_Ride said:
yeah but not everyone here also looks at WOL, infact I don't even know what it is :) so for me it's kinda interesting to follow this post.

Fair enough Let It Ride...point taken on that. WOL is WinnerOnline, just so ya know. :)
 
When the Meister recommends keeping things mellow, I think that means to put a lid on it for awhile because the topic is sensitive.

Unlike the guy who won $750k at video poker, this is not the type of win they want showing on the evening news. Drawing even more attention to it is not going to help at this stage.

If nothing works out this way, then you can play hardball a little later (like in a week or two, can't you wait that long?). You made your point that you are willing to make a public fuss, now just chill for a bit.
 
A no-win situation

soflat said:
When the Meister recommends keeping things mellow, I think that means to put a lid on it for awhile because the topic is sensitive.
Thanks - sometimes it's hard to get people's attention when the forum overflows with emotionalism. Sometimes you have to think and act like a Vulcan.

Anyway, for anyone who has been reading this thread, and following the one at WOL, it is apparent that this is a no-win situation. A gambler who is considered underage by her jurisdiction - and a casino that accepted her bets.

I'm not going to rehash this whole damn thing, but I'm going to make a few points and move on.

True, I feel that this player knew that what she was wrong. It was clear in their terms and conditions that it was her responsibility to ensure what she was doing was 100% legit. This is where she messed up. But we can never really know what was going on in her head - perhaps she believed that by entering the casino and playing there her activity was condoned "legally."

https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

Some important notes to consider before making deposits at any casino:


  • Make sure you are old enough to play. If you are between the ages of 18 - 21, contact the casino support to ensure they will honor your winnings if you win. Get this in writing.

It's a bummer she didn't follow this advice from the git go. Pick up a phone, call customer support to make sure she was legit, and request them to send her an email to confirm this. If she had done this and was allowed to continue to play, we would have a different circumstance on our hands.

But that didn't happen.

Point number two. The casino failed to do it's due diligence. They have all of the power within their means to prevent this. To rely solely on their terms and conditions is unacceptable. Sure that will protect the casino financially - but underage gambling is beyond nickels and dimes, it is a behavior that is calling the Bible thumpers to man their soapboxes and preach about the evils of online gambling. It is a careless and irresponsible attitude to take. There is no excuse to have let this happen.

Point three: the casino considered this case closed last August since they turned this over to eCOGRA which understandably ruled against paying this player. Some people have riled that eCOGRA ruled in favor of the casino. I do not share this view. I would say they ruled in favor of the industry. The deposits were already returned to this player, and the under age player was not paid her winnings. There is absolutely no way eCOGRA or any other entity could consider asking the casino to honor a dime of her winnings.

OT: Whatever happened to the licensing jurisdiction? I have no idea why they weren't involved in this. Oops, I forgot. They're licensed in Kahnawake. Anyway, moving on....

After eCOGRA did what they were asked to do, the casino went on business as usual. This is the major malfunction.

The casino more or less was out a player, they were out around $5000 and whatever deposits she had made, but they were being accused of selective payments of winnings. i.e. when she won too much, they card her and "oops, she's a teenager - don't pay her". This is the furor of the public. The torches, pitchforks, and Carusos freaking on online casinoland - and I don't blame them. In the eyes of most players, casinos are crooks - you have to earn the players' trust. This whole scenario fanned these flames.

The casino failed us - those who work in this industry - by not making a bold statement to this episode. I was trying to convince them that the only way to face this would be to take this player's winnings and donate them to either a charity of her choice, or to some other organization - perhaps Gambling Anonymous. (sorry to give you the impression that you were going to get paid - this was unintentional - my apologies)

This would have nullified the notion that this casino was being selective. It would have cost them 20k. It would have (I would hope) made the player feel that her negative experience was transposed into something positive - feeding hungry kids, providing counseling to prob. gamblers, etc. It would have saved a lot of anguish for the casino. It would have illustrated to everyone that casinos will not profit from catering to under age gamblers. In short, this would have made many positive messages and provided something for the needy.

But in the casino's short-sightedness, they have chosen not to do this.

I've discussed this situation with a number of people, and I am really frustrated. I feel that this casino group has let everyone in this industry down by just letting this be and not engaging themselves in this problem. And I question how many more autumn12s are out there.

I just hope that this serves as a wake up call to operators who are not doing their due diligence on protecting their players, their casino, and the online casino industry.

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
 
Good post, Mr. Bailey. And a well-deserved rogueing (or, not recommending).

I'm curious about one thing. When you said...

The casino has paid back her deposists since it viewed her activities as void - this was done before she began to complain about this. So she has lost not a cent. Is she going to return her winnings? Nope, I don't think so. The casino is out of this amount as well.

...did you mean ALL the Bella Vegas deposits she ever made, or only those that generated winnings? One is led to believe you mean the former, but a clarification would be handy.
 
caruso said:
...did you mean ALL the Bella Vegas deposits she ever made, or only those that generated winnings? One is led to believe you mean the former, but a clarification would be handy.
From the casino:
-We refunded ALL purchases (on ALL accounts at ALL casinos) that this player made with our group.

She had an account at all six casinos.
 
Casinomeister said:
From the casino:
-We refunded ALL purchases (on ALL accounts at ALL casinos) that this player made with our group.

She had an account at all six casinos.


Busy girl! Let's hope this cyberesque "unringing of the bell" is sufficient to give underage gamblers pause before they try this stunt. Even better would be for online operators to step up the due diligence. If it's a funding problem that stops them from doing so we know where there is $20k to start the pot.
 
suzecat said:
Busy girl! Let's hope this cyberesque "unringing of the bell" is sufficient to give underage gamblers pause before they try this stunt. Even better would be for online operators to step up the due diligence. If it's a funding problem that stops them from doing so we know where there is $20k to start the pot.

it wouldnt be that expensive for them to add a few lines of code to the software to check the age and country, jeez i could write it in basic now

10 rem check age and country
20 if country$="usa" and age<21 then print "you are not old enough to play at this casino, so f*** off"
 
:)

You covered pretty much all angles there. Still sucks for the player, but I suppose she can take some "comfort" from the fact that the casino emerges from this with its credibility and reputation around its ankles, and in as public a manner as is possible.
 
while it is sad day to a MG rogued, i think grandprive have had this one coming to them for a long time.

long may they rot in hell.

as for ecogra, the fact that they let grandprive in at all, shows that ecogra is a joke itself.
 
scrollock said:
...as for ecogra, the fact that they let grandprive in at all, shows that ecogra is a joke itself.
eCOGRA did what they were supposed to do - the player asked them to have the casino pay - they ruled against the player. They were firm, thorough, and fair in their response. This issue has nothing to do with eCOGRA. No need to find an opportunity to start slagging off on them.
 
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