Ask me anything (about slots)!

[trancemonkey]

You must have not understood my post.

The pots don’t have a chance of going at any value though.

Pot 5 for example couldn’t go until it got to £400 and would have to go before it reached £500.

There was no way possible it could drop before this amount.

Pot 4 for example could ONLY drop between £300-£400. Not before and could never get to an amount like £423.

Hence my question how is that passed as a random game?

Two possible explanations:

1. They have omitted this information from the help pages
2. The chance of the pot dropping below £400 is possible, but the chance is so small it will almost never happen.

Actually, let's include "it's rigged" just for fun too

I'll talk to my contact at BetDigital and see if he's feeling helpful...

 

[nikantw]

....
It is NOT a requirement for the RTP to be in the help pages, or even within the game, but it MUST be accessible on the website the game is hosted on. The eCogra thing is NOT an acceptable way of displaying RTP, as that is stating what it's running at, not what it's aiming at.

Ok, found it at Trada (bottom of "fair gaming" page), so it must be something like this on every site.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[4048]

Hey Trancemonkey,

On Push gamings new "Tiki Tumbles" slot, if you increase bet you get a warning popup that this will also change the reels.
Does this mean the game has a different variance depending on bet? Cause RTP is listed as one number (at least on LeoVegas)

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trancemonkey,

On Push gamings new "Tiki Tumbles" slot, if you increase bet you get a warning popup that this will also change the reels.
Does this mean the game has a different variance depending on bet? Cause RTP is listed as one number (at least on LeoVegas)

It's nothing to do with the RTP...

Because the game has a binding feature (the nudging wilds) it must store off the current game state when you change bets so that it can go back to it when you go back to that bet size.
It has to happen like that on binding games, otherwise you could play on a low stake until you got wilds in view, and then stake up massively... emptying the game!

It will still be the same RTP on all stakes

 

[4048]

It's nothing to do with the RTP...

Because the game has a binding feature (the nudging wilds) it must store off the current game state when you change bets so that it can go back to it when you go back to that bet size.
It has to happen like that on binding games, otherwise you could play on a low stake until you got wilds in view, and then stake up massively... emptying the game!

It will still be the same RTP on all stakes

I didn't expect the RTP to change, but the variance or bonus frequency can change without the RTP taking a hit or bump.

And since there are games with "saved" features that disappear on bet size changes without the warning it didn't occur to me that it was simply that, especially since the warning arrives even if you haven't yet placed a bet (so no wilds on-screen).
But what you say makes sense I just think it could be presented better.

 

[trancemonkey]

I didn't expect the RTP to change, but the variance or bonus frequency can change without the RTP taking a hit or bump.

And since there are games with "saved" features that disappear on bet size changes without the warning it didn't occur to me that it was simply that, especially since the warning arrives even if you haven't yet placed a bet (so no wilds on-screen).
But what you say makes sense I just think it could be presented better.

There should be no games which remove saved features on bet size changes which don't reinstate when it goes back to that bet size... do you have any examples?

 

[dionysus]

There should be no games which remove saved features on bet size changes which don't reinstate when it goes back to that bet size... do you have any examples?

I played the awful Rampage Riches - exiting and coming back removed all the saved collect-towards

 

[interlog]

Trance

With the consensus the volatility of Dead or Alive being changed, is it difficult to change this and how much time would such an amendnent take? Would you start afresh or just change some numbers?

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance

With the consensus the volatility of Dead or Alive being changed, is it difficult to change this and how much time would such an amendnent take? Would you start afresh or just change some numbers?

Good question - i very much doubt they have changed the frequency of the feature (i haven't checked this though) so if i were going to do that, i would reduce the frequency of the wild lines in the feature, and spread the money around more evenly - reduce the either the value of, or the frequency of, the huge spikes. In reality, whilst you'll all disagree here, you don't need players winning north of 1000x to keep them happy - because the vast majority of players never see this, and don't really expect it.

Therefore, i would have probably increased the pays from the normal symbols on the reels (not the values, but the frequency of normal wins) in the free spins, and reduced the chance of getting a wild line. This is quite easy to do - and wouldn't take long. I would probably have started by making one of the reels slighty harder to get a wild on (reel 5 is the reel where it costs the least in terms of normal wins, so i'd probably reduce this one to start with). You just need to be careful that you keep what made the game popular (the potential) while at the same time appeasing the casinos with regards to max liability.

As the structure for the maths would unlikely to need to change, it should be a relatively easy change to make.

 

[Dazzaldn]

Wow!! It’s not just me I understand that their random I get that you lose, and very rarely win, I can accept that but if a slot is crashing at the point of a big win or slowing down to create errors to avoid any win is there anything one can do. Surely with all the governing bodies that don’t allow us to be conned and everything is monitored you would just need to complain, they check and refund or compensate. WHY IS IT WHEN I’M SPENDING MORE THE SLOT DECIDES TO CRASH ALL THE TIME?
Slot in question SAFECRACKER.
Anyone got any info or help.

 

[slotmaster]

With Bonanza 2 coming, Do you think they could have changed the maths that quick? Or do you think they started working on Bonanza 2 like right away?

 

[rena35]

Do h0w much you deposit and play have any thing to do with the RTP or can s0me 0ne that plays min bet have the same line win chance?

 

[trancemonkey]

With Bonanza 2 coming, Do you think they could have changed the maths that quick? Or do you think they started working on Bonanza 2 like right away?

I spoke to Nik at the Meister Meet briefly... And I'm told that the maths for Bonanza took around 12 months. Whether that is true or not i don't know.. But it's certainly a complex game so kudos to them for doing it...

I would imagine Bonanza 2 would be much easier, although still take a while. They wouldn't want to mess it up!

Interestingly he tried to tell me that no one else can do the megaways system... which is patently untrue. They might not be able to call it megaways, as it's a TM, but if I wanted to recreate that mechanic online there is nothing stopping me doing it legally...

 

[rena35]

I guess USA players have no questions about fairness

 

[trancemonkey]

Do h0w much you deposit and play have any thing to do with the RTP or can s0me 0ne that plays min bet have the same line win chance?

Not at all - the game has no idea how much you've deposited, spent, gambled, or any other information... Each spin is totally random, fair and independent.

 

[rena35]

I was just wondering, ty for thee answer i thought as much. Not much of a gambler, small fish really, but it did not sound right to me.

 

[dusky]

Well it’s taken me three long evenings to read through this fascinating thread so just wanted to say thanks for your input trancemonkey (good name as well, ex Gatecrasher regular here).

I have no idea how you have kept so calm in the face of some of these lines of questioning haha!

 

[4048]

Well it’s taken me three long evenings to read through this fascinating thread so just wanted to say thanks for your input trancemonkey (good name as well, ex Gatecrasher regular here).

I have no idea how you have kept so calm in the face of some of these lines of questioning haha!

Then you should check out the slots fairness thread!

 

[trancemonkey]

Well it’s taken me three long evenings to read through this fascinating thread so just wanted to say thanks for your input trancemonkey (good name as well, ex Gatecrasher regular here).

I have no idea how you have kept so calm in the face of some of these lines of questioning haha!

Well, i write Trance (and Hard Trance, and Hard House) and started doing that in 2001, so that's where the name comes from...

 

[trancemonkey]

Then you should check out the slots fairness thread!

That was much harder to stay calm in!

 

[4048]

Hey Trancemonkey,

If I remember correctly you've previously said that when you develop a slot you base the RTP around 1 payline.
With that in mind,
When Bally Wulff/Gamomat updated their "Book of Romeo & Julia" game they increased the amount of lines from 5 to 10.
When they did this, was this possible without changing the maths, as in did they have to submit the game for licensing again or could they just relaunch with 5 additional paylines no problem?

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trancemonkey,

If I remember correctly you've previously said that when you develop a slot you base the RTP around 1 payline.
With that in mind,
When Bally Wulff/Gamomat updated their "Book of Romeo & Julia" game they increased the amount of lines from 5 to 10.
When they did this, was this possible without changing the maths, as in did they have to submit the game for licensing again or could they just relaunch with 5 additional paylines no problem?

It would be a minor retest... just to make sure they HAVEN'T changed the maths...
Any change (however minor) must be tested by the lab

 

[Smithyy]

It would be a minor retest... just to make sure they HAVEN'T changed the maths...
Any change (however minor) must be tested by the lab

Hey Trance,

Any idea (if it even happens - I assume it does occasionally) - how often games are rejected by the testing labs? What's the process then?

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trance,

Any idea (if it even happens - I assume it does occasionally) - how often games are rejected by the testing labs? What's the process then?

All the time... it's a racing certainty that most games have issues. I've had maths issues (where the lab finds faults in calcutions), translation issues (most common), visual issues, you name it. The labs do very in depth testing of the games against the rules for the jurisdiction you are releasing the game under. So for games which are global (like retail IGT and SG, etc) they do a LOT of testing.

We just fix the game and resubmit... just think of them as an extra QA. If they find an issue they raise a ticket for it (normally in some software called JIRA) and then we fix it and the fix is tracked through the ticket system.

 

[goatwack]

It is known that no game is ever rejected. They're unleashed on a wing and prayer, in the hope nobody notices. One need just look at Bonanza

 

[interlog]

It is known that no game is ever rejected. They're unleashed on a wing and prayer, in the hope nobody notices. One need just look at Bonanza

Or alternatively, I have been told the old "brown envelope" trick works too.

 

[BrianGhattas]

You play a slot and hit the bonus for free spins. What happens regarding the RNG and the free spins you get, whether it’s 5 or 500?

 

[trancemonkey]

You play a slot and hit the bonus for free spins. What happens regarding the RNG and the free spins you get, whether it’s 5 or 500?

I'm not sure what you mean? Can you explain a little further - i just want to make sure i give you the right answer

 

[Smithyy]

Hey Trance, I have a question. (And I mean this as a genuine question, not having a dig or being sarcastic.)

You mentioned you think/feel/perhaps could find Yggdrasil's slolts (or some of them) to be 'not random' - I think basically it was that you can't get the bonus, or very easily, until you've played a certain amount or something?

How would these games get through testing though? Is it compliant with the UKGC to make slots where you think each spin has the same chance of winning/hitting a bonus/hitting the maximum win, when in reality it's not?

I think I remember the conversation correctly, so please correct me if I'm wrong - was just wondering it earlier, as you're obviously very close to the industry and know the regulations well!

Cheers

 

[BrianGhattas]

I'm not sure what you mean? Can you explain a little further - i just want to make sure i give you the right answer

Has the RNG determined what your bonus is going to be when you start the free spins or does every spin in the bonus have a separate result? What happens when you start the bonus is what I’m asking.

 

[dionysus]

I'm pretty sure this has been asnwered a half dozen times throughout th e thread, but I grabbed the 1st I came across answered by trance

To answer your first point, it's normally at the point you pressed the start button to spin the reels to get the bonus. Some providers might wait until after the reels have spun and the bonus is shown (but obviously before you can interact with the game) - depends how the games are coded. The server needs to know the outcome of the game so that it can restore it properly. To be honest, if a game crashes AFTER a player interaction, i would normally insist the game restores to AFTER the interaction part (where possible) to stop this exact scenario.

Re: SOTS - The options are there for the player to pick because of player psychologically - our job is to make you think you were unlucky with those picks...

 

[dionysus]

also -

I covered this in a previous post, so i'll be brief:

There are two ways (at least) that the game logic (server) can provider the client with the information it needs for free games / pick feature / whatever...
The first is that ALL the outcomes for all the free spins / picks / whatever are sent to the client in one big data file. Of course, this can cause problems because if you win 100 free spins, with retriggers, etc... the file that the client receives could be quite large and sending / parsing it could take time. Therefore this is almost certainly not used very often any more, if at all.

The other option is that each free game is sent to the client in turn - which is why on Bruce Lee, if you have a bad connection, and you're in the free spins, the game will pause before the reels spin. This is because it's getting each spin in turn. The reason that if you completely lose connection, or reload the game, they play all the spins through is because the server knows that the Free Spins are not complete, and therefore sends all previous spins through again. We have to store previous spins in the system for legal reasons (i.e player disputes, GC issues, etc..).

Now a lot of providers would just pick up from where they left off, but WMS have chosen to display the game recovery in this way...

There's nothing sinister or odd about it - it's just the way it works.

As for the quick reel stop - i don't know... by design? Fault in the code? God knows... but again, nothing sinister. In fact, i quite like it

Tin-foil Hat Distributor and Purveyor of Truth!

 

[trancemonkey]

Has the RNG determined what your bonus is going to be when you start the free spins or does every spin in the bonus have a separate result? What happens when you start the bonus is what I’m asking.

What dionysus said

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trance, I have a question. (And I mean this as a genuine question, not having a dig or being sarcastic.)

You mentioned you think/feel/perhaps could find Yggdrasil's slolts (or some of them) to be 'not random' - I think basically it was that you can't get the bonus, or very easily, until you've played a certain amount or something?

How would these games get through testing though? Is it compliant with the UKGC to make slots where you think each spin has the same chance of winning/hitting a bonus/hitting the maximum win, when in reality it's not?

I think I remember the conversation correctly, so please correct me if I'm wrong - was just wondering it earlier, as you're obviously very close to the industry and know the regulations well!

Cheers

It was to do with VGB and the fact the symbols you need seem to disappear off the reels at a certain point.

Well the short answer is that IF they are doing something like altering the reels based on how many things have been collected then it shouldn't have got through.

They deny there is anything like this going on.

I haven't seen stats that prove it one way or the other... just some (unverified) stats that infer they might be.

 

[goatwack]

It's finally happened. Dionysus and Trancemonkey are now symbiotically merged.

They have become...... one and the same

 

[trancemonkey]

It's finally happened. Dionysus and Trancemonkey are now symbiotically merged.

They have become...... one and the same

We are Trancysus... please respect our new gender non-binary identity too

 

[burgstrom]

Wow Trancemonkey, you have lead the charge here. Amazing response and feedback. I will where possible help Mr. Trance on questions also. We are ex-colleagues and I now work at NetEnt (only just started). I've been working in the industry for about 12 years in Land/Retail and online - so I've been around Happy to help out, without stealing Mr.T's thunder of course! Be gentle with me.

 

[TheAddict]

An interesting revelation

If you work at netent and are unsure of how to answer a question. Think of the players.. Just say NO.

 

[goatwack]

Pretty bad time to be working at Netent

Now that they're gash and everything

 

[burgstrom]

Pretty bad time to be working at Netent

Now that they're gash and everything

Thanks man, appreciate the support ;p

There’s some good things cooking so wait and see.

 

[suchfun]

also -

I covered this in a previous post, so i'll be brief:

There are two ways (at least) that the game logic (server) can provider the client with the information it needs for free games / pick feature / whatever...
The first is that ALL the outcomes for all the free spins / picks / whatever are sent to the client in one big data file. Of course, this can cause problems because if you win 100 free spins, with retriggers, etc... the file that the client receives could be quite large and sending / parsing it could take time. Therefore this is almost certainly not used very often any more, if at all.

The other option is that each free game is sent to the client in turn - which is why on Bruce Lee, if you have a bad connection, and you're in the free spins, the game will pause before the reels spin. This is because it's getting each spin in turn. The reason that if you completely lose connection, or reload the game, they play all the spins through is because the server knows that the Free Spins are not complete, and therefore sends all previous spins through again. We have to store previous spins in the system for legal reasons (i.e player disputes, GC issues, etc..).

Now a lot of providers would just pick up from where they left off, but WMS have chosen to display the game recovery in this way...

There's nothing sinister or odd about it - it's just the way it works.

As for the quick reel stop - i don't know... by design? Fault in the code? God knows... but again, nothing sinister. In fact, i quite like it

Tin-foil Hat Distributor and Purveyor of Truth!

good enuf for me lol why would any one in the industry give less than the truth lol

 

[dionysus]

*shrugs
feel free to find and supply proof otherwise
me..ill go by what people actually in the know say

 

[suchfun]

*shrugs
feel free to find and supply proof otherwise
me..ill go by what people actually in the know say

shrugs


good for you

 

[dionysus]

it is.
i sleep better and enjoy slots more without constantly stressing about them.

 

[suchfun]

it is.
i sleep better and enjoy slots more without constantly stressing about them.

how can you sleep when you are in every post kissing the shills ass???

and what makes you think I stress about slots??? lol

 

[dionysus]

maybe because rather than contributing to the thread youre busy quooting me It also explains why I'm in the thread...quote notification
but if youre convinced hes a shill, theres this great function called 'report'.

 

[Sonict]

If Trancemonkey was a shill, he would be banned from this forum. He isn't even acting like one. CM dislikes shills so if he is one, he is doing a great job at... NEVER BEING ONE! Duh!

 

[suchfun]

maybe because rather than contributing to the thread youre busy quooting me It also explains why I'm in the thread...quote notification
but if youre convinced hes a shill, theres this great function called 'report'.

go back and look at your posts,you the little dog in bugs bunny running after trace,trying to be his bud.
some do not think it is all legit,well most know it's not,let them have that.You do not have to be in every rigged thread or post telling people oh your stressed over it.
The all mighty said it's all good,so put you tinfoil hat on

 

[suchfun]

If Trancemonkey was a shill, he would be banned from this forum. He isn't even acting like one. CM dislikes shills so if he is one, he is doing a great job at... NEVER BEING ONE! Duh!

ya he just builds the slots he wants us to keep playing lol

 

[Sonict]

Just like how food manufactures make food with stuff to get you coming back for more, car dealers giving you offers, clothing stores discounting prices to get you in to the place, ISPs ( Internet Service Providers ) having promotion rates etc...