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Bear this one with me.

I've played last week, and i lost a 2000 euro spreadout over 6 days. There was no chance for me to get even or get on top of that. I've played with various bets from 0,80 up to 5 euro a spin. I wrote a some sort of complain email about it to the casino, where i'd was not really happy for losing 2000 without doing too crazy. As a VIP i think i should be able to state my opinion on slots anyway without coming out of the corner for being a problem gambler.

But this is what happens. 24 hours later i login. Before i deposit, i notice 6 free spins on 0,50 starburst. I decide to slam it for a few times, and i end up with 17 euro on bonus money. I dive into another game, and instant hit 2,50 a spin. I get a bonus, 90 euro in total. I dive into another game, just 3 clicks away and boom another bonus. 180 euro. I dive back into another game, and boom, bonus, 1400.

At the end of my streak, my winnings ended up at 5100 euro, which i withdrawled. I've never seen such a steady win streak as ever before in my online carreer. Yes i'm sort of happy that i made it up now but.... does this have anything todo with the complaint i wrote to my VIP manager?

How in the world is this possible to have so many winning streaks and it does'nt really matter what your betting strategy in this one was, EVERYTHING just went up to the sky. I could go beserk on clicking like crazy, i'd knew that nothing could go wrong. Getting bonusses on 20 euro a spin with fullscreen outcome and such.

Does the casino have an advantage in this way? Can they give out some 'luck' to the player to keep him/her satisfied?
 
Bloatgoat said:
So your saying it has nothing todo with my email to the VIP manager and all of a sudden everything just works? Going from 6 free spins on 0,50 cents to 5100 in a night. lol.
Click to expand...

I cant see them flicking a switch knowing that you flip between pretty high stakes when you gamble, even up to 20 a spin if i read what you explained correctly. With a no lose switch you could have easily went on towards huge sums of money if mostly doing higher bets (Dont go gettin any ideas with that reverse button!).
Unless of course it was never going to allow you to reach 10k... :thumbsup:
 
pinnit2014 said:
So they rig it to make you lose, rig it to make you win. Im thinking you believe there’s an element of riggyness afoot :oops:

If you’re even, is this unriggedness?
Click to expand...
nope, rigged to have you break even with a perfect rtp too
 
*rigging within the parameters of the Social Contract

I actual used it in work let week when there were changes in the place I worked for:

‘What do I think? These changes are rigged’

I refrained from shouting ‘just like that fucker Bonanza’

Cos that would have seen a call to occupational health.
 
goatwack said:
It's technically called 'fair rigging' when neither plus or minus, or just 'frigging' for short :cool:

It's true
Click to expand...
kinda like when they had wager-ranking for rtp and shortened it, but they got all sorts of strange email requests in the casinos
 
Bloatgoat said:
So your saying it has nothing to do with my email to the VIP manager and all of a sudden everything just works? Going from 6 free spins on 0,50 cents to 5100 in a night. lol.
Click to expand...

Going from $19 to $23.000 - thanks VS for my last remarkable run by alerting the games that they have to pay. :D

On a serious note, my experience has shown me that a few times every year there are days where you can't do wrong. I call them lucky days, you call them "rigged". :D .... The problem with such days is that most people think it will never stop and end up losing even more than they won on that lucky day.

Personally, I mostly lose a good part of the winnings because I go on high bets which I just like to do once in a while. However, I am always aware that the lucky streak can be over at any time and transfer out a large part of the winnings before going on those high-rolling benders. :D
 
Harry_BKK said:
On a serious note, my experience has shown me that a few times every year there are days where you can't do wrong. I call them lucky days, you call them "rigged". :D .... The problem with such days is that most people think it will never stop and end up losing even more than they won on that lucky day.
Click to expand...

Nah i always set my target, goal, and do simply not exceed that. I've seen too many people lose from going 10 euro deposit all the way up to 5k and have it lost in 2 hours straight slots lol.

But it's 'weird' and if some touch from above or something managed me todo this. I'm sure that it is no coincidence after sending an email 24 hours ago to my VIP manager and all of a sudden the best night of my life lol.

Again, going from 6 free spins on 0,50 cents all the way up to 5100 is a miracle lol.
 
Bloatgoat said:
Nah i always set my target, goal, and do simply not exceed that. I've seen too many people lose from going 10 euro deposit all the way up to 5k and have it lost in 2 hours straight slots lol.

But it's 'weird' and if some touch from above or something managed me todo this. I'm sure that it is no coincidence after sending an email 24 hours ago to my VIP manager and all of a sudden the best night of my life lol.

Again, going from 6 free spins on 0,50 cents all the way up to 5100 is a miracle lol.
Click to expand...


It is a coincidence, nothing else...sorry but your VIP manager does not have access to the games, not in the slightest.

Maybe good to read this thread Remarkable day at Videoslots! .... because if I take your logic I must have had 3 miracles happening in a matter of 6 months. :D
 
goatwack said:
Just glad we could add Wager-ranking and Frigging to the gambling lexicon to aid any newcomers

Trance would be proud
Click to expand...

I am - i feel like a proud Dad :)
 
Bloatgoat said:
Nah i always set my target, goal, and do simply not exceed that. I've seen too many people lose from going 10 euro deposit all the way up to 5k and have it lost in 2 hours straight slots lol.

But it's 'weird' and if some touch from above or something managed me todo this. I'm sure that it is no coincidence after sending an email 24 hours ago to my VIP manager and all of a sudden the best night of my life lol.

Again, going from 6 free spins on 0,50 cents all the way up to 5100 is a miracle lol.
Click to expand...

I see the enforced break didn't help you get over the "it's all rigged" mantra....
Anyway, yes it's lucky. No - again - the casinos can't suddenly make all the games go good for you.
Enjoy your luck - the opposite will happen at some point :) That's random for you :)
 
Oh i'll enjoy the 5100 withdrawl, no problem. But i've never seen this stuff EVER happen myself. I know some friends of me can get some crazy jumps. Starting with just 10 euro blackjacking their way up to a steady 150 and from there some crazy shit happens. The only 'problem' part about one particular friend is that he never withdrawls. Lol. And feels very stupid when he realised he just clicked 5 grand away into the toilet. It's hard to talk with someone having a problem in the first place, and explaining what it takes to stop at the right moment. But if your in that rush and your winning it's hard to quit.

Ah well.
 
Bloatgoat said:
Oh i'll enjoy the 5100 withdrawl, no problem. But i've never seen this stuff EVER happen myself. I know some friends of me can get some crazy jumps. Starting with just 10 euro blackjacking their way up to a steady 150 and from there some crazy shit happens. The only 'problem' part about one particular friend is that he never withdrawls. Lol. And feels very stupid when he realised he just clicked 5 grand away into the toilet. It's hard to talk with someone having a problem in the first place, and explaining what it takes to stop at the right moment. But if your in that rush and your winning it's hard to quit.

Ah well.
Click to expand...

You've never seen it before? Almost as if it was a completely random event ;)
 
On a seperate note, can we please try and keep this thread from becoming another rigged slots thread? I don't mind answering specific questions, but please let's not turn this in to another "bloatgoat and tourettesguy claim everything is rigged and don't listen to anything anyone says thread" - otherwise i can see Bryan closing this one too :(
 
Please tell me if my thinking is correct:
We have a slot with a single progressive jackpot. The RTP is 95%, the jackpot consumes 5% of each bet.
When the jackpot is at its starting value, the RTP is actually 90% and increases together with the jackpot, can even exceed 100%.

Thank you in advance.
 
The 95\%
ddt said:
Please tell me if my thinking is correct:
We have a slot with a single progressive jackpot. The RTP is 95%, the jackpot consumes 5% of each bet.
When the jackpot is at its starting value, the RTP is actually 90% and increases together with the jackpot, can even exceed 100%.

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

The 95% RTP is with the jackpot hitting at it's average value (which of course over time it will do) - but you are correct that when the jackpot is showing it's reset value, it's running at 90% and when it's over it's average value it's running at over 95%.
 
There seems to be a backlash with the megaways BTG and Red Tiger new one , in that you can get thousands / millions of ways in the bonus and still get a dogshit payout.

Would you still be able to make a creative playable game if you could have mega (to a degree ) paylines, but give a bonus guarantee that increases with the number of possible pays ?

People are pissed off getting 5x with big scatter multipliers or lines , so what if say3 scatters would give 5x or More, 4 scatters or say 50 free spins would guarantee a minimum of 200x and 5 scatter or 100 free spins would guarantee 1000x minimum ?

If the player knows they have a big minimum win by getting a certain feature , they might be more inclined to gamble and might have more interaction, fun, be more uplifted and have more playability, rather than mostly disappointment, and expecting nothing which is what seems to be the normal.

Have you experimented with something similar ? Probably not much different to having progressive pots but without the display ....
 
Its not really a reply. I am wondering about the rng games. Random jackpots progressive. I play at bodog and feel they can do whatever they want. Not positive . Reason is that I played 3 to 4 X on high progressives and next day here we go again. Ceasars empire was won 3x was it really won or as they want you to think person played low so the rest goesl back in. If this is the way it works great. Does anyone really know? Whats the best place to play that are honest and will pay?
 
Spikie said:
There seems to be a backlash with the megaways BTG and Red Tiger new one , in that you can get thousands / millions of ways in the bonus and still get a dogshit payout.

Would you still be able to make a creative playable game if you could have mega (to a degree ) paylines, but give a bonus guarantee that increases with the number of possible pays ?

People are pissed off getting 5x with big scatter multipliers or lines , so what if say3 scatters would give 5x or More, 4 scatters or say 50 free spins would guarantee a minimum of 200x and 5 scatter or 100 free spins would guarantee 1000x minimum ?

If the player knows they have a big minimum win by getting a certain feature , they might be more inclined to gamble and might have more interaction, fun, be more uplifted and have more playability, rather than mostly disappointment, and expecting nothing which is what seems to be the normal.

Have you experimented with something similar ? Probably not much different to having progressive pots but without the display ....
Click to expand...

The problem with all these Megaways games is that, of course, they can rarely afford to follow through on the potential.

Let's take what you say as an example...

If you want 5 scatters to pay 1000x, then if this happens every 10,000 games, it would account for 10% of the total RTP... which would mean for the other 9,999 games, you're playing a 86% game (assuming it's 96% normally). But of course you would have the 3 and 4 scatter features to pay for as well.. 10% is a big chunk of money, so i wouldn't necessarily want that much RTP going to wins over 1,000x. So realistically you probably don't want that happening more than once in 50,000 games. That also assumes that you ONLY pay the minimum.

And if you have 4 scatters paying 200x, again if you have that every 5,000 games (for example) then that feature accounts for 4% of the payout.

The simple fact is that regardless of how many lines / ways you have, you still only have a finite pool of money you can pay out. And also, most people don't expect wins of that size... they are unnecessary really. Yes most players would welcome them, but games just can't afford them very often.
 
Hi trancemonkey,

I'm a software developer and slots have always interested me from a mathematical perspective.

Could you tell me if the implementations of RNG are game / platform specific or whether there is a standard approved provider of such a service / binary? And also what makes the RNG qualify for use? e.g How is it tested for fairness?

I ask this because over the years of playing slots I've never seen the exact outcome twice consecutively on a slot that has a complicated reel layout - and that this is a possibility, albeit unlikely. Do you know how such eventualities are mitigated? is it purely the number of variables used in the RNG?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Spikie said:
Also , are there any jobs going at IGT that require someone to suggest game ideas whilst eating biscuits and drinking tea , whilst not knowing much about the maths ?

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

You mean you want my job?! ;)
 
CasinoNinja said:
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How is this possible? Are we talking about compensate machines here to "predict" payout patterns?
Click to expand...

I've touched on this somewhere else, might be in this thread, but i believe the machines in question were Novomatic. If my recollection is true, they had used the same seed (rather than a random seed) in the development on the RNG - they were also polling the RNG on a timer, rather than on some random event. So basically, if you knew the seed AND you recorded enough spins (and you had to press the button at quite precise timings - they had an app i believe to help them) you could try and predict when to press the button to get the best possible outcome.

If i'm wrong, i'm sure someone will correct me :)
 
gilleslord said:
Its not really a reply. I am wondering about the rng games. Random jackpots progressive. I play at bodog and feel they can do whatever they want. Not positive . Reason is that I played 3 to 4 X on high progressives and next day here we go again. Ceasars empire was won 3x was it really won or as they want you to think person played low so the rest goesl back in. If this is the way it works great. Does anyone really know? Whats the best place to play that are honest and will pay?
Click to expand...

Just use the accredited list on CM :)

Why do you think Bodog are dodgy?
 
jayc82 said:
Hi trancemonkey,

I'm a software developer and slots have always interested me from a mathematical perspective.

Could you tell me if the implementations of RNG are game / platform specific or whether there is a standard approved provider of such a service / binary? And also what makes the RNG qualify for use? e.g How is it tested for fairness?

I ask this because over the years of playing slots I've never seen the exact outcome twice consecutively on a slot that has a complicated reel layout - and that this is a possibility, albeit unlikely. Do you know how such eventualities are mitigated? is it purely the number of variables used in the RNG?

Thanks
Click to expand...

They are platform specific - most people use the Mersenne Twister algorithm, although there are a few versions of that...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
< this tells you most of the things you need to know.

Test such as the Diehard Test (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
) are some of the ones used to prove an RNG
 
sapit222 said:
@trancemonkey

I got 3 scatters in the game Ariana. Usually this means that i get the bonus.
I checked up the rules for the game:
View attachment 90132

I have been in contact with the casino about this.
At first they said i had to get 3 scatters in a paid line to get the bonus.
I corrected them about it and they told me it will be passed on to MG.
Today i got the reply saying its a display error?

Thank you for contacting us about the game round and for your patience as we needed clarification from the game provider to understand what happened. The Microgaming team has completed the investigation for you and can conclude the outcome for the game round concluded as expected. In the players screenshot, it shows a transaction from game round 1322 (attached) except the three wheels from left to right are from the previous game round 1321 (also attached). This could happen due to a display error when updating the position to the new spin. We have highlighted these two sections in red and green on your screenshot which we also attached to this email. Upon the financial audit for the game rounds, we see these two game rounds match the transaction audits and all winnings were correct and awarded successfully. If you would like more information about this issue, please let us know.
View attachment 90133


Is this explanation credible?
Click to expand...

Gotta love when a casino just makes something up and tells you it needs to be 3 in a payline lol.
 
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