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Cheers for the reply, another question or three...

Just been playing Vikings Go Beserk, think the top pay is 10000x ? But at the casino I have just played you can play £125 a spin, so theoretically a top pay of £1.25 million.

I can’t be bothered to read the terms and conditions, but in theory what happens if a casino caps the max win lower than the slot payout at the allowed spin cost ?

Does the provider benefit in any way or just the brand operator ? Is it just the casino itself saves a massive payout , or does the game provider benefit too ?

Are online casinos getting a cut of the bet per spin similar to the rake in poker , or do they have full liability? And how much would a new operator need in cash to cover potential payouts ?
 
Top pay on that machine is maaaaybe 3000x bet...need atleast 14 Ragnarök spins to reach 1000x...with 21 starting free spins you may get 3000x at the most Im guessing
 
Cheers for the reply, another question or three...

Just been playing Vikings Go Beserk, think the top pay is 10000x ? But at the casino I have just played you can play £125 a spin, so theoretically a top pay of £1.25 million.

I can’t be bothered to read the terms and conditions, but in theory what happens if a casino caps the max win lower than the slot payout at the allowed spin cost ?

Does the provider benefit in any way or just the brand operator ? Is it just the casino itself saves a massive payout , or does the game provider benefit too ?

Are online casinos getting a cut of the bet per spin similar to the rake in poker , or do they have full liability? And how much would a new operator need in cash to cover potential payouts ?

Most of the big casinos have a limit of £250,000 (excluding Progressive wins) - but also quite a few have different limits, so always check.
If you played with a massive stake, and won more than the maximum prize, then basically the casino "bank" that difference. As far as the game (and RTP) is concerned, it paid out the actual prize.

As for how much a casino needs to cover potential payouts - i'm afraid i don't know the answer to this. Maybe someone like @Captain Rizk can answer?
 
Most of the big casinos have a limit of £250,000 (excluding Progressive wins) - but also quite a few have different limits, so always check.
If you played with a massive stake, and won more than the maximum prize, then basically the casino "bank" that difference. As far as the game (and RTP) is concerned, it paid out the actual prize.

As for how much a casino needs to cover potential payouts - i'm afraid i don't know the answer to this. Maybe someone like @Captain Rizk can answer?

What does the casino “bank” the difference mean? Thx
 
Most of the big casinos have a limit of £250,000 (excluding Progressive wins) - but also quite a few have different limits, so always check.
If you played with a massive stake, and won more than the maximum prize, then basically the casino "bank" that difference. As far as the game (and RTP) is concerned, it paid out the actual prize.

As for how much a casino needs to cover potential payouts - i'm afraid i don't know the answer to this. Maybe someone like @Captain Rizk can answer?

This is more down to how much money is kept for each payment method. At Rizk we dont limit the payout on any win, progressive or base game, we think that is bullshit. If you offer the game then you need to be comfortable with your exposure to the risk it exposes you too. and ensure that you have the funds to cover wins of this magnitude.

Having said that we have to upload funds to each payment provider to cover all withdrawals and of course you cant have huge 7 figure numbers sat in all payment methods at all times - this comes down to basic cash flow for a business. However when we have huge winners then we pay direct from our bank account once everything is validated.
 
What does the casino “bank” the difference mean? Thx

I think that he means that if there is a 500k non progressive winner and the max payout as per the terms and conditions is 250k then the casino effectively banks the other 250k because they dont have to pay it. it is a way that some casinos use to limit their loss exposure but effectively works in their favour in the longer term as then they dont pay all winnings
 
This is more down to how much money is kept for each payment method. At Rizk we dont limit the payout on any win, progressive or base game, we think that is bullshit. If you offer the game then you need to be comfortable with your exposure to the risk it exposes you too. and ensure that you have the funds to cover wins of this magnitude.

Having said that we have to upload funds to each payment provider to cover all withdrawals and of course you cant have huge 7 figure numbers sat in all payment methods at all times - this comes down to basic cash flow for a business. However when we have huge winners then we pay direct from our bank account once everything is validated.

I thought only VS was the one who didn't have a cap of £250k winnings, glad to hear that my favorite (now even more) don't have a cap either! Not that I will ever hit £250k in a base game haha..
 
This is more down to how much money is kept for each payment method. At Rizk we dont limit the payout on any win, progressive or base game, we think that is bullshit. If you offer the game then you need to be comfortable with your exposure to the risk it exposes you too. and ensure that you have the funds to cover wins of this magnitude.

Having said that we have to upload funds to each payment provider to cover all withdrawals and of course you cant have huge 7 figure numbers sat in all payment methods at all times - this comes down to basic cash flow for a business. However when we have huge winners then we pay direct from our bank account once everything is validated.

I've always wondered what the point is in allowing stupidly high bet sizes, if you aren't prepared to pay the winnings - but Hills, Corals, SkyVegas, they all do this...
Good to see you don't :)
 
Who invented the 3 scatters to get free spins or bonus ?

Is it patented ? If so then they must be loaded , but then why would everyone use the same bonus trigger ?

Can you patent certain ideas ? If I wanted to have 110 Paylines and had to have a symbol on all 80 out of 100 lines to trigger a feature , could I patent that?


Do you have to be careful in that respect when you design a game , or do IGT own most of the juicy stuff ?
 
Who invented the 3 scatters to get free spins or bonus ?

Is it patented ? If so then they must be loaded , but then why would everyone use the same bonus trigger ?

Can you patent certain ideas ? If I wanted to have 110 Paylines and had to have a symbol on all 80 out of 100 lines to trigger a feature , could I patent that?


Do you have to be careful in that respect when you design a game , or do IGT own most of the juicy stuff ?

In the US you can patent just about anything, so there were many things that we couldn't do - i don't know if 3 scatters to trigger a feature was ever patented, but it's not something i'm aware of.

However, in the rest of the world patents are (rightfully so) much harder to get - it has to be a clear invention. Whereas in the US you can patent a line of code just because you happen to have written it differently to someone else...

IGT now work with many of the other big slots companies with regards to patent sharing, so we can all use each others without risk of litigation
 
Hi! Awesome thread Trancemonkey, thanks for all the interesting replies so far. In fact it's this that made me finally sign up to the forum instead of just lurking around and reading.

Anyway my question is this: If someone was interested in learning to do what you do, what would be your advice? Are there resources on this that give, say, a list of the most crucial mathematical concepts needed, recommended tools/software, required practical skills (ie Excel simulations) and that sort of thing? I have a longstanding interest in statistics and probability, which is hopefully a good start, but would love to learn more.

Usual apology in case this has been answered already. Long thread!
 
@Maisie There are many ways to become a producer like me... some come in to it through a maths background, some an art background, some product management background, etc...
My reason for getting in to it was because i had a passion for the games, and i played them - and i though to myself one day a long time ago "there must be a job making these somewhere" so i applied and got my foot in the door some 20 years ago now.

In order to be a good producer you need to have a good eye for detail, you need to be a good problem solver, you need to be able to direct many others (art / dev / maths / etc.) to make what's in your head, so communication is a huge part of our roll. You need to be creative, but also pragmatic - understand business and market needs whilst also trying to push boundaries in terms of game design.

If you have an interest in statistics and probabilities then that's a good start - an ability to code in python and/or VBA is a huge benefit too because the mathematicians need to write simulations in order to prove the game works correctly - not every company works like this, but at IGT the maths guys are also coding the simulations.

Do you have any qualifications or is it just an interest?
 
Do you have any qualifications or is it just an interest?

No qualifications at the moment (I sometimes do maths-related courses online for fun but they're not "official") but have recently hatched a plan to get back to school in the next couple of years. Probably looking at a maths & statistics degree for starters.

I'm one of those self-taught types, tend to develop an interest in something and then just badger away at it for years until I can do it, and the first step in learning a new topic is figuring out a list of what it is you need to learn! :D

Edit: I'm also a web developer (self-taught, again), no Python knowledge specifically but having coding experience in general always makes picking up new languages easier. Not too worried about that part.
 
No qualifications at the moment (I sometimes do maths-related courses online for fun but they're not "official") but have recently hatched a plan to get back to school in the next couple of years. Probably looking at a maths & statistics degree for starters.

I'm one of those self-taught types, tend to develop an interest in something and then just badger away at it for years until I can do it, and the first step in learning a new topic is figuring out a list of what it is you need to learn! :D

Edit: I'm also a web developer (self-taught, again), no Python knowledge specifically but having coding experience in general always makes picking up new languages easier. Not too worried about that part.


Feel free to PM me if you want any further advice / guidance :)
 
How big needs to be the progressive jackpot for Cinerama video slot from Playtech to play the game at 100% RTP (sorry if this was asked previously) ?
PS: Cinerama is a game advertised as having a 98.94% RTP.
 
questions about an IGT game - an old classic I shall say

mystical mermaid.webp

as about Land Based casinos, this game - even if almost 20 years old - is still available at many places. I don't know if and where it can be played online, since IGT is country-restricting Italy. Any suggestion ?

back on LandBased casinos, I hit BIG three times in my life (in 3 different casinos - well actually in 3 different Countries !) , and all 3 times with the same winning combination:
5 x seahorses on line no. 20 during FS

The question is: is this "jackpot combination" available only on line 20 ? And is it available only during FS ?

Thanks in advance for your reply
 
How big needs to be the progressive jackpot for Cinerama video slot from Playtech to play the game at 100% RTP (sorry if this was asked previously) ?
PS: Cinerama is a game advertised as having a 98.94% RTP.

I'm afraid i don't know this :( Sorry mate
 
questions about an IGT game - an old classic I shall say

View attachment 89009
as about Land Based casinos, this game - even if almost 20 years old - is still available at many places. I don't know if and where it can be played online, since IGT is country-restricting Italy. Any suggestion ?

back on LandBased casinos, I hit BIG three times in my life (in 3 different casinos - well actually in 3 different Countries !) , and all 3 times with the same winning combination:
5 x seahorses on line no. 20 during FS

The question is: is this "jackpot combination" available only on line 20 ? And is it available only during FS ?

Thanks in advance for your reply

Way before my time i'm afraid orion, so i can't help on this one...
I can take a guess that it's unlikely that it's only on line 20 in the FG... it MIGHT only be in the Free Games, but this will be stated in the rules.
 
Haven't chimed in here for a while (do follow the thread but not post often).
But today I felt I had to add something to this thread.

Last week I had a few nice hits so I could afford it to go and play some higher stakes than my usual €1.00-€3.00 range and decided to play Netent slots as I am quite comfortable playing them.
Made bets ranging from €4.00-€10.00 on Victorious, Wild Rockets, Muse and Lost Island.
Except for the last slot which is pretty HV anyway I managed to trigger a good few bonus rounds on these slots and I am not lying saying not a single bonus round on ANY of the slots paid more than 25x bet.
On Wild Rockets I triggered the FS quite often on €6.00 and no rockets to be seen.
Lost Island I triggered FS 4 or 5 times on €8.00 bets and the highest win was 16x bet in free spins, where were the wilds ffs!!!

I had several sessions on these slots with these stakes so it was not just an average measured in 50 spins.

So here is the discussion again!!!! RANDOM?

I say again: NO

I played above slots a lot, a lot on my normal stakes and had many wins in the 100-500x bet range as these slots can do that with no problem.

Raising stakes and all free spin rounds are dead.

So is the pool of big wins the slot picks from in FS mode smaller? Or how does this work.

It is weird anyway because I never ever won big on a stake over €4.00 on any slot.
All my big wins are mostly from €2.00 bets.

So after a few sessions on for me high stakes I felt I was just ganked by those slots.

Best hit I had was on Lost Island base game for 120x on €6.00 bet.

Still a good bit up overall so it is not a complaint, just something I witnessed when raising bets.

Ah well,back to my normal comfort zone stakes I guess. ^^
 
Haven't chimed in here for a while (do follow the thread but not post often).
But today I felt I had to add something to this thread.

Last week I had a few nice hits so I could afford it to go and play some higher stakes than my usual €1.00-€3.00 range and decided to play Netent slots as I am quite comfortable playing them.
Made bets ranging from €4.00-€10.00 on Victorious, Wild Rockets, Muse and Lost Island.
Except for the last slot which is pretty HV anyway I managed to trigger a good few bonus rounds on these slots and I am not lying saying not a single bonus round on ANY of the slots paid more than 25x bet.
On Wild Rockets I triggered the FS quite often on €6.00 and no rockets to be seen.
Lost Island I triggered FS 4 or 5 times on €8.00 bets and the highest win was 16x bet in free spins, where were the wilds ffs!!!

I had several sessions on these slots with these stakes so it was not just an average measured in 50 spins.

So here is the discussion again!!!! RANDOM?

I say again: NO

I played above slots a lot, a lot on my normal stakes and had many wins in the 100-500x bet range as these slots can do that with no problem.

Raising stakes and all free spin rounds are dead.

So is the pool of big wins the slot picks from in FS mode smaller? Or how does this work.

It is weird anyway because I never ever won big on a stake over €4.00 on any slot.
All my big wins are mostly from €2.00 bets.

So after a few sessions on for me high stakes I felt I was just ganked by those slots.

Best hit I had was on Lost Island base game for 120x on €6.00 bet.

Still a good bit up overall so it is not a complaint, just something I witnessed when raising bets.

Ah well,back to my normal comfort zone stakes I guess. ^^

I think this is more for the Slots Fairness Discussion, there Bloaty and Tourettes will tell you it's all rigged, and all pre-decided, predetermined... ;)

Let me ask you a question... How many games have you played at stakes over €4 compared to stakes under €4 - just as a ratio (i.e 50% over, 50% under)...
Try and answer honestly...

Why do i ask? Well - consider the proportion of your play on high stakes. If you nearly always play at €2, then of course nearly all your big wins will come from that stake.
If you've only played 1,000 games at a higher stake, then the chance of a big win (say 100x+) is extremely unlikely - although from what you said you were unlucky in the Free Games, but all of those games can and do regularly do free games like you say at low stakes too...

There is no pool of wins for different bet sizes - every outcome has the same chance of happening at every stake... < you don't have to believe this, but it's true whether you believe it or not ;)
 
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I wonder if people complain and shoutout "THIS IS NOT RANDOM" if they hit bonuses 3 times in a row and win above 100x on each of them.
Ofcourse they don't, because that was just really lucky.


They only claim it's not random when they lose out. When you lose out badly, your are just unlucky and you are more likely to be unlucky then lucky as the numbers works against you..
 
I wonder if people complain and shoutout "THIS IS NOT RANDOM" if they hit bonuses 3 times in a row and win above 100x on each of them.
Ofcourse they don't, because that was just really lucky.


They only claim it's not random when they lose out. When you lose out badly, your are just unlucky and you are more likely to be unlucky then lucky as the numbers works against you..

As gamblers, we all know this...

We only ever brag about our wins.
And we only ever complain about our losses.
 
I have had massive wins when Ive rasied bets, its not impossible but it is ofcourse more common you win less when rasing bets and get bigger bet multiplier wins on small bets or when you lower the bets.
2 things decides this, first the programmers amd casinos want to profit. Second is every player account RTP aim to be at 96% average payout. So its easier for the softwere to give a huge bet multiplier on 20c bet.. Dont make that big differense when the player had made 5000 spins on €5 before with bad payout.. But giving a huge bet multiplier win on €5 bets after 5000 spins of 20cent each will fukc up the average payout too much and probably not possible due to built in limits to protect the casino.. I think you understand.. Even if Monky say this is not true probably. Quite simple math though.
 
"Quite Simple Math" haha...

His brain would explode if I showed him the maths for even a simple game... let alone some of trhe complex stuff we do...

Funny seeing people trivialize it though..

Hey TG... I'm on version 26 of the maths for my current game. Been working on it for around 260 hours so far (I checked our recorded hours)... it's still not quite right though. Could you just pop round and spend ten minutes fixing it for me... it's super easy for you :)

Cheers Bud :)
 
tranlastion: Hi, I dont create slots math models or deisgn slots..I actually dont have any inside knowledge of how they work, but I play slots, therefore my feelings say that if it walks like a duck, it's a duck, even though it has 4 legs, fur and goes woof
 
tranlastion: Hi, I dont create slots math models or deisgn slots..I actually dont have any inside knowledge of how they work, but I play slots, therefore my feelings say that if it walks like a duck, it's a duck, even though it has 4 legs, fur and goes woof

A......duckdog? :what:
 
Progressive "Must be won before 11.30pm" - e.g Red Tiger progressives on Betfair.

And they always drop very close to the deadline. So how do these work, there must be a non random element to them?

So these work on an increasing chance... here's an example with regards to a must hit by progressive that works on a cash value (but it would work in exactly the same way on a time basis)

Simple example:

A progressive starts at $1, must hit by $100.

When it's $1, the chance to win is 0.001%
At $10 it's 0.01%
At $50 it's 1%
At $95 it's 2%
At $96 it's 10%
At $97 it's 20%
At $98 it's 35%
At $99 it's 50%
At $100 it's 100%

Obviously the chance changes with every increment... i'm just giving you an example chance at different stages...

So there is a chance of winning it at every possible value - but it's more likely as it gets closer to the value / time gets closer to the end

Dave
 
Hey Trancemonkey, here's something I've always wondered.

With themed games (Jurassic park, Jimi Hendrix, etc) - how do software provider's manage to negotiate/come to an agreement with the film/TV/artist's management? Do they like, approach them and say - we'll give you XYZ?

I guess I can see company's like IGT and Microgaming for example already having the contacts in place. But say, the smaller developer's - BTG (or Leander games, who actually made it I think) - with "Gold" - where would a new developer begin to do a branded game like that?

Hope the question makes sense! Thanks
 
Hey Trancemonkey, here's something I've always wondered.

With themed games (Jurassic park, Jimi Hendrix, etc) - how do software provider's manage to negotiate/come to an agreement with the film/TV/artist's management? Do they like, approach them and say - we'll give you XYZ?

I guess I can see company's like IGT and Microgaming for example already having the contacts in place. But say, the smaller developer's - BTG (or Leander games, who actually made it I think) - with "Gold" - where would a new developer begin to do a branded game like that?

Hope the question makes sense! Thanks

This was covered by LetsGiveItASpin in his ICE London interview video, I think with NetEnt.

In the beginning, the provider had to get in touch with various brands to ask if they wanted to work together, but when they got bigger studios were aproaching the provider instead, like with the latest Planet of the Apes game by NetEnt.
 
Hey Trancemonkey, here's something I've always wondered.

With themed games (Jurassic park, Jimi Hendrix, etc) - how do software provider's manage to negotiate/come to an agreement with the film/TV/artist's management? Do they like, approach them and say - we'll give you XYZ?

I guess I can see company's like IGT and Microgaming for example already having the contacts in place. But say, the smaller developer's - BTG (or Leander games, who actually made it I think) - with "Gold" - where would a new developer begin to do a branded game like that?

Hope the question makes sense! Thanks


This is the main (decades-old) event where many introductions are made, deals initiated, and (after extensive negotiation) have resulted in many of the licensed slots we see...

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Could you post a random snippit of some of the "maths" you do, and explain it? Would be very interesting, I know you can't post sensitive information, but either something old or something you make up! :)
 
I think this is more for the Slots Fairness Discussion, there Bloaty and Tourettes will tell you it's all rigged, and all pre-decided, predetermined... ;)

Let me ask you a question... How many games have you played at stakes over €4 compared to stakes under €4 - just as a ratio (i.e 50% over, 50% under)...
Try and answer honestly...

Why do i ask? Well - consider the proportion of your play on high stakes. If you nearly always play at €2, then of course nearly all your big wins will come from that stake.
If you've only played 1,000 games at a higher stake, then the chance of a big win (say 100x+) is extremely unlikely - although from what you said you were unlucky in the Free Games, but all of those games can and do regularly do free games like you say at low stakes too...

There is no pool of wins for different bet sizes - every outcome has the same chance of happening at every stake... < you don't have to believe this, but it's true whether you believe it or not ;)

Hi Trancemonkey,

I understand 100% on what you are explaining, however two things.

I remember reading a couple of years ago about organised gangs that would target Netent games specifically with bonuses at the same casino, and have heard similar stories before.

So my questions are

1. Why would they all target the same games at the same times if all the games are random, if there is no patterned rtp paycycle?

As if each spin is entirely random, there would be absolutey NO benefit in doing this collectively, at the same time. And by doing this collectively as a team, at the same time, they are also massively increasing their chances of detection, so why take that risk?

Yet if they games were compensated in the fashion that everyone could still call them random (random with compensation would stil be “random” after all), then this would entirely make sense as a method to take advantage of the Casino:

10 players do max bet on a high variance slot with bonus.

The machine hits “tipping point” and pays out to one of the team. The winnings are then shared.

This leads me on to the second question:

2. If each spin is entirely random, then why over a large number spins can a session be entirely hot or cold.

This is much pronounced on high variance games such as Dead or Alive and Bonanza? You can have a 2000 spin session on each that play entirely differantly to a ridiculous level i.e 20 bonus rounds in a session and many micro wind against no bonus and a complete balance drop.

I would “get” such variation over 100 spins, or even pushing it 500, but not 2000. The common occurrence of such deviation (very good session vs very bad session) defies reasonable doubt, even with a rudimentary understanding of Maths and Variance.

If it was truly “random” in the wider sense you would expect sessions to be all over the place, even on high variance games, however they are generally not. This is obvious to any regular player.

Any regular player will tell also tell you, the more microwinning and slight blance increases you get, the more likely a good bonus session is coming. Thats not to say you are not “surprised” sometimes at a sudden balance saver bonus round, but its rare (so random, but weighted chance of outcome) - but there definately seems to be a link between the two.
 
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Let me ask you a question... How many games have you played at stakes over €4 compared to stakes under €4 - just as a ratio (i.e 50% over, 50% under)...
Try and answer honestly...

I knew this was coming,seriously.
Like I said I normally play €2.00 bets, my most used bet size so it would be 98% vs maybe 2%.

And I know where you are going from here mate.

I get it. :thumbsup::p
 
1. Why would they all target the same games at the same times if all the games are random, if there is no patterned rtp paycycle?

As if each spin is entirely random, there would be absolutey NO benefit in doing this collectively, at the same time. And by doing this collectively as a team, at the same time, they are also massively increasing their chances of detection, so why take that risk?

Yet if they games were compensated in the fashion that everyone could still call them random (random with compensation would stil be “random” after all), then this would entirely make sense as a method to take advantage of the Casino:

10 players do max bet on a high variance slot with bonus.

The machine hits “tipping point” and pays out to one of the team. The winnings are then shared.

2. If each spin is entirely random, then why over a large number spins can a session be entirely hot or cold.

This is much pronounced on high variance games such as Dead or Alive and Bonanza? You can have a 2000 spin session on each that play entirely differantly to a ridiculous level i.e 20 bonus rounds in a session and many micro wind against no bonus and a complete balance drop.

I would “get” such variation over 100 spins, or even pushing it 500, but not 2000. The common occurrence of such deviation (very good session vs very bad session) defies reasonable doubt, even with a rudimentary understanding of Maths and Variance.

If it was truly “random” in the wider sense you would expect sessions to be all over the place, even on high variance games, however they are generally not. This is obvious to any regular player.

Any regular player will tell also tell you, the more microwinning and slight blance increases you get, the more likely a good bonus session is coming. Thats not to say you are not “surprised” sometimes at a sudden balance saver bonus round, but its rare (so random, but weighted chance of outcome) - but there definately seems to be a link between the two.

Hey SpinUK

Your first question is an interesting one, as i'll be honest - i haven't heard of this, but i can try and do some digging... however, my guess is that the casino had given some kind of bonus that was beatable, rather than the actual game being beatable...

To your second question - this is all part of the fundamental reason that players think it's all rigged. You make one important statement here:

I would “get” such variation over 100 spins, or even pushing it 500, but not 2000. The common occurrence of such deviation (very good session vs very bad session) defies reasonable doubt, even with a rudimentary understanding of Maths and Variance.

It's this belief that statistics can't act this way that causes people to doubt the fairness of games...

Let me ask two questions which may or may not help you understand some more:

1. If i had a win frequency of 1 in 4, what do you think the maximum number of games would be without a win - let's say we play 1,000,000 games?
2. If i had a game with only one win of £95 at an average of 1 in 100 spins, do you think this could go hot and cold?

In both cases, we assume that we know for 100% fact the decisions are fair and randomly determined.
 
Could you post a random snippit of some of the "maths" you do, and explain it? Would be very interesting, I know you can't post sensitive information, but either something old or something you make up! :)

Let me have a think about what i can do... leave it with me. I'm travelling a lot at the moment, so might be a while :)
 
Hi Dave

This has probably been asked earlier in thread, but I'll be honest in that I cba to trawl thru, no foil hatting here either, honest!

Q. What reasons can you think for the complete turnaround with regards to Netent's Dead or Alive when the HTML5 version was released and flash (pretty much) scrapped please?

Casinos would pretty much run for the hills as far as this game is concerned, some removed it altogether (BGO, Ladbrokes) others banned it from their Sub (Redbet for one example among MANY others) and then some would ban bonus play, the braver reducing the WR contribution.

Now fair enough it is still "banned" in a lot of cases but the risk seems somewhat drastically reduced IMO, casinos mentioned above have reinstated this game, others removed it from the ban list (when wagering a bonus) and hell even some regularly promote it and direct deposit based offers towards this slot (BGO this weekend, Trada offer 100FS now and then)

No rigged accusations and no knowledge as such hence the question but wondering simply why?

cheers

Jon
 
Hi Dave

This has probably been asked earlier in thread, but I'll be honest in that I cba to trawl thru, no foil hatting here either, honest!

Q. What reasons can you think for the complete turnaround with regards to Netent's Dead or Alive when the HTML5 version was released and flash (pretty much) scrapped please?

Casinos would pretty much run for the hills as far as this game is concerned, some removed it altogether (BGO, Ladbrokes) others banned it from their Sub (Redbet for one example among MANY others) and then some would ban bonus play, the braver reducing the WR contribution.

Now fair enough it is still "banned" in a lot of cases but the risk seems somewhat drastically reduced IMO, casinos mentioned above have reinstated this game, others removed it from the ban list (when wagering a bonus) and hell even some regularly promote it and direct deposit based offers towards this slot (BGO this weekend, Trada offer 100FS now and then)

No rigged accusations and no knowledge as such hence the question but wondering simply why?

cheers

Jon

Without looking in to it i would suggest:

1. Max bet reduction, so max liability has been lowered
2. Maths have been altered to reduce the max liability without reducing the maximum bet
3. Some casinos have been convinced to take the new HTML5 version by NetEnt even though nothing has been altered other than a 100% re-implementation

TM
 
Without looking in to it i would suggest:

1. Max bet reduction, so max liability has been lowered
2. Maths have been altered to reduce the max liability without reducing the maximum bet
3. Some casinos have been convinced to take the new HTML5 version by NetEnt even though nothing has been altered other than a 100% re-implementation

TM

1. Max bet still the same
2. very likely
3. The casinos in question, already had the flash version
 
1. Max bet still the same
2. very likely
3. The casinos in question, already had the flash version

Previous extenisve threads on this game suggested:

Old version wildline chance of 1 in 153 bonuses (if my memory serves me right was over 2m spins. So a reasonable sample).

Html5 version wild line chance of circa 1 in 250 bonuses (slotstracker data).

So highly, highly likely they flattened the variance in the new version. That makes it a much more attractive proposition for Casinos.
 
Previous extenisve threads on this game suggested:

Old version wildline chance of 1 in 153 bonuses (if my memory serves me right was over 2m spins. So a reasonable sample).

Html5 version wild line chance of circa 1 in 250 bonuses (slotstracker data).

So highly, highly likely they flattened the variance in the new version. That makes it a much more attractive proposition for Casinos.

If they changed the maths wouldn’t they have to get it re certified...
 
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