Are you a Highroller? BEWARE of CASUMO

[Lobo]

When such a big and trusted casino as Casumo (yes, I think Casumo still is the best online casino out there), can do something like this - they make it easy for the small and shady casinoes to confiscate even more money from players by doing these unfair KYC when requesting a withdrawal.

Hopefully Casumo is making things right again, but my days as a highroller at online casinoes are over. That is for sure. I can't take the risk.

 

[Borgie]

Bebo is right really the only place to be a high roller is in a land based casino where they dont check your belly button every five minutes - the RTP may be lower but you get comps - rooms , food and drink , free spins, etc etc etc

 

[Slottery]

Great Point and a worrying thread.

I used to work in banking and though my knowledge is a little fuzzy my understanding is that when they look at bank accounts and source of wealth it is done to combat fraud. They look for regular or significant transactions from certain parts of the world or from persons of interest. Small regular transactions may flag some kind of deeper look but I would have thought they have all of the information needed from your bank statement already - if they were a bank that is all they need but I don't know how casinos are using or processing this info.

Not being funny but if you were laundering money then a letter from a pal or lawyer would not be that hard to get if that was the only hurdle to money laundering.

I wonder what the current guidelines are as this seems like overkill, think its time to get schooled over these requests for information. Its not clear to me if this is a banking process to combat fraud or if there are other guidelines in place pushing the casinos to take a deeper look.

Would assume that these SOW etc... checks are something what came to casinos and they are not fully familiar with these processes and don't have that much knowledge about these like banks etc.. who are monitoring these on daily basis for all transactions and when something even bit possible suspicious is triggered, more extended check is completed but even these mostly fully automatically, they have knowledge and tools to trace money and knowledge what can be higher risk than other, like geographically higher risk countries, known "tax paradise offshore countries" etc.. Casinos were given instructions to cooperate and monitor possible money laundering and CTF activities (i think i posted some MGA guide line some page ago) but when getting loads of these kind of documents to follow, it's not really easy task to do if you don't have professionals in that area.

These can be followed and many things to be done, but the scale many are completing these are now to ask some proof of private person transferred you few hundred or thousands (like it was pointed, you could sell your old laptop in internet to unknown person etc..) which really is not something need to be looked at, if you get every month or very regular basis transfers which are even bit bigger, then asking what these are could be enough instead of asking proof or id:s from these people. One very good point imo. is that if money is accepted to your bank which is operating in ETA economical area, that money is categorized to be quite clean and legal already. If you would have pattern to receive weird transfers big enough, often enough etc... your bank who monitor your whole history would have responsibility and interest to investigate what that money is and they will follow these. Because of most of casinos don't have any detected real criminal activities to report, they will investigate what they have and see, like in these SOW cases some transactions from friends etc... Banks have nothing against it if i transfer few thousands to my friend who i owe money or borrowing money if it some single transactions, they will notice it but decide that there is no reason for action, for casinos who have department to complete these checks, reactions are coming for much smaller things, like transactions from your friends you played poker. They are not fully aware what they should be doing and when, and that's pretty much reason why these are happening, maybe better education from regulators or hiring real professional from economic areas, but these people are really expensive to have when they have almost none to do, but maybe some week or month consultation would be enough to build process which then would be enough for regulators and convenient for players and casino operators.

I personally wouldn't see much to make PAB here, casinos can ask your KYC documents and extend these far as they find relevant to do. Sending ID from 3rd party probably is too much, but options pretty much are to cooperate with casino or leave it and close account. If there are any funds on your account, you will get them on way or other (if they want to report it as criminal activity, then latest when their MLRO have reported it and it has been investigated by authorities and they find nothing wrong there), if it's only about some cashback or other bonus/loyalty money but not your deposit, for these casinos pretty much have right just stop giving them like all bonuses and loyalty programs can be changed just totally finished. They can accept your deposit for certain time after they request your SOW to complete it (like they can when they ask your basic KYC), but before these are approved they can't make payments to you as your verification is not done (basically it's same KYC process like your ID, proof of address etc.. just extended one). I would just leave it and change casino, if there are some your funds which are not bonuses or cashbacks etc.. would claim for them of course, but as long there is no any deposited money stuck because of this process, wouldn't bother to do anything as have much better ways to spend my time and there is not much reward to start to argue about it, you might get some requests made bit more reasonable but if you are not willing to send them more details of your finances, then nothing probably don't happen, they don't just skip it because of player not willing to cooperate because that make them in bigger risk if they have asked some documentation and then just forget it when players is not willing to cooperate.

So wouldn't spend many hours and emails of my time to fight about this where only possible reward could be to be able to play in casino again. There are many other ones, probably sooner or later you get again to SOW process, then just try to provide everything very clearly showing where your funds are coming and going and hope their demands are reasonable, if not, change casino again. They can ask you to proof every single transactions if they think there is reason for that, you decide if you wish to share them or not, but don't really see much to claim complaint as long your own money is not there as "ransom".

 

[colinsunderland]

Both the reps have viewed the thread again this morning.
Even if they can't comment specifically on this case, I don't think answering my question, or other general ones should be too much trouble.

 

[Lobo]

Would assume that these SOW etc... checks are something what came to casinos and they are not fully familiar with these processes and don't have that much knowledge about these like banks etc.. who are monitoring these on daily basis for all transactions and when something even bit possible suspicious is triggered, more extended check is completed but even these mostly fully automatically, they have knowledge and tools to trace money and knowledge what can be higher risk than other, like geographically higher risk countries, known "tax paradise offshore countries" etc.. Casinos were given instructions to cooperate and monitor possible money laundering and CTF activities (i think i posted some MGA guide line some page ago) but when getting loads of these kind of documents to follow, it's not really easy task to do if you don't have professionals in that area.

These can be followed and many things to be done, but the scale many are completing these are now to ask some proof of private person transferred you few hundred or thousands (like it was pointed, you could sell your old laptop in internet to unknown person etc..) which really is not something need to be looked at, if you get every month or very regular basis transfers which are even bit bigger, then asking what these are could be enough instead of asking proof or id:s from these people. One very good point imo. is that if money is accepted to your bank which is operating in ETA economical area, that money is categorized to be quite clean and legal already. If you would have pattern to receive weird transfers big enough, often enough etc... your bank who monitor your whole history would have responsibility and interest to investigate what that money is and they will follow these. Because of most of casinos don't have any detected real criminal activities to report, they will investigate what they have and see, like in these SOW cases some transactions from friends etc... Banks have nothing against it if i transfer few thousands to my friend who i owe money or borrowing money if it some single transactions, they will notice it but decide that there is no reason for action, for casinos who have department to complete these checks, reactions are coming for much smaller things, like transactions from your friends you played poker. They are not fully aware what they should be doing and when, and that's pretty much reason why these are happening, maybe better education from regulators or hiring real professional from economic areas, but these people are really expensive to have when they have almost none to do, but maybe some week or month consultation would be enough to build process which then would be enough for regulators and convenient for players and casino operators.

I personally wouldn't see much to make PAB here, casinos can ask your KYC documents and extend these far as they find relevant to do. Sending ID from 3rd party probably is too much, but options pretty much are to cooperate with casino or leave it and close account. If there are any funds on your account, you will get them on way or other (if they want to report it as criminal activity, then latest when their MLRO have reported it and it has been investigated by authorities and they find nothing wrong there), if it's only about some cashback or other bonus/loyalty money but not your deposit, for these casinos pretty much have right just stop giving them like all bonuses and loyalty programs can be changed just totally finished. They can accept your deposit for certain time after they request your SOW to complete it (like they can when they ask your basic KYC), but before these are approved they can't make payments to you as your verification is not done (basically it's same KYC process like your ID, proof of address etc.. just extended one). I would just leave it and change casino, if there are some your funds which are not bonuses or cashbacks etc.. would claim for them of course, but as long there is no any deposited money stuck because of this process, wouldn't bother to do anything as have much better ways to spend my time and there is not much reward to start to argue about it, you might get some requests made bit more reasonable but if you are not willing to send them more details of your finances, then nothing probably don't happen, they don't just skip it because of player not willing to cooperate because that make them in bigger risk if they have asked some documentation and then just forget it when players is not willing to cooperate.

So wouldn't spend many hours and emails of my time to fight about this where only possible reward could be to be able to play in casino again. There are many other ones, probably sooner or later you get again to SOW process, then just try to provide everything very clearly showing where your funds are coming and going and hope their demands are reasonable, if not, change casino again. They can ask you to proof every single transactions if they think there is reason for that, you decide if you wish to share them or not, but don't really see much to claim complaint as long your own money is not there as "ransom".

Thanks for your reply, Slottery.

Casumo for sure don't have much experience with such verifications. That's why they have not replied yet. They are probably having some major discussions.

My country (I live in scandinavia) is one of the most financally monitored countries in the world. We really don't use hard cash anymore and many stores have stopped accepting hard cash. More or less every single cent can be tracked by the gouvernment.
All my transactions to Casumo have been through my bank. My crypto is also first transfered to my bank account and then to Casumo, so Casumo has really nothing to do with it.

If I had been living in a country known to launder money and I had been using PaySafeCard and depositing directly with crypto I could maybe see such heavy verifications, like you say, Slottery.

The reason I am so fired up is first and foremost not because of the money, but that I have been such a loyal costumer for so many years at Casumo... and then suddenly being dumped in a brutal manner. It is kinda hard to describe but I really like Casumo...
I have understood that they want me to move my business elsewhere, which is totally fine (I am a VIP at 4 other casinoes as well), but they could have done it in a much nicer way instead of trying to steal/confiscate money from me in the process by doing a KYC-process impossible for me to complete.
They even tried to take more money by letting me deposit in the process, which I did.

For the third; I love this community and I see it as my duty to warn others so they know what is going on.

I'll rest my case until Casumo has had a chance to respond. There is allways two sides a story, so I am looking forward to their version of these unfair KYC-verifications. They just need some time making it

 

[Lobo]

Short update: Casumo added a 80% deposit bonus to my account today. Probably some standard mass bonus, but still...

My cashback which should have arived today in the morning has not come. That has been manually stopped because it comes each monday like clockwork.

Still no replies to my emails sent on friday.

 

[bebo67]

The Bahamas might not be ideal right now

True enough I went after they had a hurricane, and it was the most surreal thing I ever saw. No birds, insects. Not even ants ( we looked). No wildlife what so ever.

 

[Slottery]

Sure understand your situation and it's not nice when this happens, Casumo is not only one who make these bit extended sow checks, just commented that it's quite many in industry who have some way to go make their procedures in these more convient for all. I'm quite sure they don't want to loose players or do their lives hard because of these, they just follow processes how they find it to be compliant with all regulations. It was same when normal KYC checks came and casinos were given obligations to do something but not very clear guidelines and then trying to follow these rules. Hope these after while start to be clear and easy like id checks are now.

When you are told to make sure you don't brake any rules and some long and not easy to understand EU directive, you easily over act to make sure you don't brake any obligations and get big fine for that. Would probably pay itself back to get some consultant to build this process to casino operations to be compliant enough without need to request these kind of proofs from single transaction which don't even make banks to ask where it's coming as they do if they have reason to believe something is alarming.

There just is not much to do for situation now, casinos have right to ask what they think is needed, options pretty much are comply or stop playing there.

 

[miksaxxx]

Casumo is just not VIP player friendly when they have got what they want from player. ( money )

I needed "sow" my account when they started doing source of wealth check 's. It was nightmare but got everything approved. 2 hours in phone with my vip manager ... get 200€ for phone bill.

Second sow trickered 1.5 year later. again everything was approved, but after 2 days from that one my account was closed. without no reason . Tryed to get answer but gomed " talk to the hand ".

I have allready forget Casumo , but wanted to tell my story.

 

[CertaCas]

I quit Casumo when they asked for Proof of Wealth, no way am I sending those kind of documents to people I've never seen before.

 

[Louis]

Hi hello,

Sorry for taking a while to respond in the thread guys.

I’ve been reading through your thoughts and concerns, as will probably come as no surprise, I won’t be able to go into your details specifically @Luckylobo. But I will try to give you as comprehensive of an overall picture as I can.

I’m really sorry to read about your frustration with us, and others, when being requested to go through extended checks. Especially the concerns you have regarding the actual necessity of the documents which are being asked for.

The information we as an online casino need to collect and stay on top of is extensive. There’s been mentionings in the thread of the banks obligations and how this potentially should be enough for us to fall back on. Truth is, we can not rely on other parties doing their due diligence to cover for our own. Not even banks. We follow strict regulations in accordance with our licenses as well as EU law, and have solid risk assessment processes which are based on requirements and facts. We collaborate directly with the governing bodies we abide by. Decisions are made in combination of their advice and our own legal team and experienced sumos across our casino teams. By regular audits, our processes and policies are continuously reviewed to be up to standards. There is no trainee payments specialist who makes a judgement call on your account on a whim, that I can promise you.

I’ll also mention that as a company based in the EU, we follow the rules set out in the General Data Protection Regulation. Whenever we handle your personal data, it’s done by the principles of GDPR. I can assure you that any documentation asked of you is both lawfully requested and then lawfully handled by us.

Initially on these requests, the withdrawal section is blocked while deposits are not that is true. This is originally sprung out of a player friendly perspective, to avoid someone continuously requesting withdrawals that will be cancelled anyway, while not blocking someone who wants to play while waiting for the documents to come through (mind you that documents most often are *not* requested on withdrawals). Based on your feedback here however, we will be looking into what improvements we can we make in this area.

I might not have brought any groundbreaking information here, but I hope I’ve at least been able to shine some light on the “backstage” work going into this.

Louis,

 

[colinsunderland]

How exactly can requesting a third parties information and ID documents possibly be allowed under the GDPR? How can you have the right to process that information without getting their explicit consent? Even if you ask for it (which I don't see how you can before you get the details) what happens if they say no? Will you refuse your customers withdrawal?

If someone I don't know buys something from me on Ebay, Facebook, Guntree etc, and pays by transfer, do you really think weeks or months later, if I ask them, they will send me a copy of their passport?

If someone I didn't know, emailed me asking for a copy of my passport, this would be my response

 

[Lobo]

Hi hello,

Sorry for taking a while to respond in the thread guys.

I’ve been reading through your thoughts and concerns, as will probably come as no surprise, I won’t be able to go into your details specifically @Luckylobo. But I will try to give you as comprehensive of an overall picture as I can.

I’m really sorry to read about your frustration with us, and others, when being requested to go through extended checks. Especially the concerns you have regarding the actual necessity of the documents which are being asked for.

The information we as an online casino need to collect and stay on top of is extensive. There’s been mentionings in the thread of the banks obligations and how this potentially should be enough for us to fall back on. Truth is, we can not rely on other parties doing their due diligence to cover for our own. Not even banks. We follow strict regulations in accordance with our licenses as well as EU law, and have solid risk assessment processes which are based on requirements and facts. We collaborate directly with the governing bodies we abide by. Decisions are made in combination of their advice and our own legal team and experienced sumos across our casino teams. By regular audits, our processes and policies are continuously reviewed to be up to standards. There is no trainee payments specialist who makes a judgement call on your account on a whim, that I can promise you.

I’ll also mention that as a company based in the EU, we follow the rules set out in the General Data Protection Regulation. Whenever we handle your personal data, it’s done by the principles of GDPR. I can assure you that any documentation asked of you is both lawfully requested and then lawfully handled by us.

Initially on these requests, the withdrawal section is blocked while deposits are not that is true. This is originally sprung out of a player friendly perspective, to avoid someone continuously requesting withdrawals that will be cancelled anyway, while not blocking someone who wants to play while waiting for the documents to come through (mind you that documents most often are *not* requested on withdrawals). Based on your feedback here however, we will be looking into what improvements we can we make in this area.

I might not have brought any groundbreaking information here, but I hope I’ve at least been able to shine some light on the “backstage” work going into this.

Louis,

Thanks for your reply, @CasumoLouis.

This was a very disturbing response. I was hoping you would say that you were a little bit carried away in the verification process, but instead you confirm how brutal Casumo are, and how easy it is for you to make a verification process that is more or less impossible to pass.
When you feel you have earned enough money out of one player, you lock the option to withdraw and then slam him/her with a KYC which you make up as you go.

@colinsunderland sums it up pretty well.

You have not answered any of my emails for many days now (sent to my VIP manager). Great if you can answer.

 

[dealer wins]

What a depressing thread. This industry and its regulators has been totally ruined over the last 5 years.

Even VIP super loyal and I would have thought highly valuable clients are now treated like shit and as virtual criminals by the very casino they have lost huge amounts to. Even being a customer for many years doesnt stop the absurd treatment.

The crazy thing is that real money launders wouldnt have a casino account that they play big gambling sessions on day in day out for many years, using the same deposit and withdrawal method. Not a single one, ever would operate like that!

 

[Lobo]

Casumo has not answered any of my emails for many days now.
Being a VIP for 3+ years, and being a person they have made a small fortune of - I think i deserve to have my emails answered.

I am very curious of witch path they choose to take: 'money launderer' or 'problem gambler'.
I actually think 'problem gambler'... guess we'll have to wait and see.

I have just requested to get all my data from Casumo:

"Dear Casumo, I wish to make an access request under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for a copy of any information you keep about me, electronically or in manual form in relation to my account at Casumo.

Kind regards,
xxxx"

 

[Borgie]

If this is the case that casinos are expecting to ID and grill any individual/3rd party who happens to deposit into our bank accounts be that friends, colleagues , gumtree purchases, family etc then really thats the end. Nobody in their right mind would provide that information and nor should they . Personally I think this is the end for me as I would never give out this information nor ask anybody to provide it for me,

 

[Lobo]

If this is the case that casinos are expecting to ID and grill any individual/3rd party who happens to deposit into our bank accounts be that friends, colleagues , gumtree purchases, family etc then really thats the end. Nobody in their right mind would provide that information and nor should they . Personally I think this is the end for me as I would never give out this information nor ask anybody to provide it for me,

Yes, very dusturbing.
I have been gambling for over 15 years and this is the first time something like this has happend to me. And the way things are developing, for sure not the last.

My advice is if you plan to gamble for a larger amounts of money, let's say you hit a jackpot in a casino and want to deposit some what big in an other casino, then clarify everything with the casino before you deposit (at least on Casumo). But even then you are no way safe. As soon as you deposit big the casino, as @CasumoLouis write above, they can do what ever they want with you under the 'regulations in accordance with our licenses as well as EU law'.

Even if you can prove that you hit jackpot on an other casino, and the way they interprets these laws and regulations, they can force you to send account statements from the other casino you won the jackpot on, deposit history, and THEN bankstatements of deposit methods used in a different casino.... because, they don't wanna touch dirty money hilarious - but sadly true.

You don't even have to deposit big. They can slam you with this when ever they want.

Many of these cases will be very easy solved in court with a good lawyer, but I guess very few players have the time and money to go down that route.
Anyway, if this happend to you... never ever give up. Hit the casino back as hard as you can for as long as you can.
It is WE, the players, who have build the casino, and together we are strong as fuck.

 

[OpiumDose]

I’ll also mention that as a company based in the EU, we follow the rules set out in the General Data Protection Regulation. Whenever we handle your personal data, it’s done by the principles of GDPR. I can assure you that any documentation asked of you is both lawfully requested and then lawfully handled by us.

I'm not an expert on GDPR, but I find it very hard to believe this is true. Asking for players own documents and information - that's fine, but asking for ID documents for third parties (thus possibly obtaining information without direct consent of said third parties) can't be lawful.

I'd never comply with such a ridiculous demands - account would be closed immediately. Fortunately I have not encountered any casinos with such a ludicrous KYC.

 

[Lobo]

For anyone who is interested:

My total deposits at Casumo: €747,381.00
My total withdrawals at Casumo: €555,204.24

 

[Oscar Arnhem]

For anyone who is interested:

My total deposits at Casumo: €747,381.00
My total withdrawals at Casumo: €555,204.24

For anyone who is interested:

My total deposits at Casumo: €747,381.00
My total withdrawals at Casumo: €555,204.24

Wowwwww

 

[deanus76]

The bandit would be classed as VIP he has deposited 1.4 Million and his withdrawals are 1.7mill, he also had grief with SOW etc

 

[Lobo]

Just got a reply from my VIP manager. It is in a foreign language so I briefly sums it up:

"Sorry, we need the documents before we can open up your account for withdrawals [...]... and here is your cashback, Good luck".

"I have known you for a long time. We suspect you of nothing wrong we just need to know exactly where the money is coming from"

"We, saw you had transfered money to an other account of yours. We need full bank statements from that account as well. Yes, we need signed letters from the persons who have transfered you money + copy of their ID"

So yeah - here we are...

This happend after I deposited €6k i august.
Less than 0,8% of my total deposits at Casumo.

Depositing at Casumo is a big gamble too. Kinda exciting, lol. You never know when they will smash you with an impossible KYC

@CasumoLouis - do you have anything else to add?

 

[Borgie]

Just got a reply from my VIP manager. It is in a foreign language so I briefly sums it up:

"Sorry, we need the documents before we can open up your account for withdrawals [...]... and here is your cashback, Good luck".

"We suspect you of nothing wrong we just need to know exactly where the money comes from"

"We, saw you had transfered money to an other account of yours. We need full bank statements from that account as well. Yes, we need signed letters from the persons who have transfered you money + copy of their ID"

So yeah - here we are...

It's surely time to close your account and move on I'm afraid . They are not going to budge and there is no way you can give them what they are asking for . Other peoples Ids and letters - that's not happening .

 

[bowki]

IDs from other people. Lol, most ridiculous request I ever saw. Under no Data protection act that can be ok.

"Hey, remember you bought my iPhone on eBay three month ago?" "Uhm, yeah, sure, what's the matter?" "Oh, no biggie, I just need a copy of your ID to send it to an online casino in a foreign country!"

 

[sledge13]

This is all bad and I feel for the original poster, they loves taking your money, thats never a problem...cash out? quick raise the bridge!!!!