Aliens.. Fact or Fiction ?...*sean luc picard voice* "Theories"

[skiny]

Excellent analogy, if I were a teacher I would A+ the fuck out of it , I know you are a 100% science type of guy, I am also upto a certain extent, science in it`s many shapes and forms has answered so many questions, but, i`m also a staunch believer in the process of elimination, which helps (most times) for those answers where science fears to tread,

Agreed.

"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes.

This holds true for science but we haven't even eliminated the possible much less the impossible.

there is no greater question on this planet that remains as of yet, unanswered, a few theories have come and gone, and that question - the origin of man, the latest update to Darwin`s theory needs peer reviewing imho .......

Actually evolution is one of the very few things that every single branch of mainstream science agrees on implicitly. The reason for that is that every single branch of science from biology to paleontology to geology to astrophysics all come to the same conclusions through scientific research. It's something that simply can no longer be denied.

I wonder how many creationists just clenched their fists.

Cheers,

Was a pleasure debating with you .

Well, it doesn't have to all be debate. I enjoy sharing ideas about the cosmos and the existence of life where ever it might be found. My problem is I start typing and then 10 minutes later I remember that some poor person has to read all this.

This conversation has got me to go back and re-look at some things that I hadn't looked at in a long time which was kind of fun. Not everyone is going to agree on all the answers but the important thing is that we keep asking the questions.

 

[Seventh777]

Well, the conversation definitely brought some good stuff to the table regarding otherwise unknown aspects of the crop circles, I was reading some newspaper article regarding a new crop circle, and a pilot came forward and stated that the circle was not there when he flew over the same field roughly an hour before, this brings to light 2 relative points...1). The time stamp in which they can be made, 2). They are not always created at night time, but for the love of God I cannot find the exact same report. Ofc the pilot may not have noticed it 1st time.

Found the link, and it appears to be verified...............

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[Seventh777]

Skiny, i`m on to something here, if you can replicate this circle in 6 hours you win $100,000 .

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Now, if you were the hoaxer would you risk all and go for it?.

I can imagine you doing it then having to file a PAB for spirit of the bonus breaches

 

[skiny]

Skiny, i`m on to something here, if you can replicate this circle in 6 hours you win $100,000 .

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Now, if you were the hoaxer would you risk all and go for it?.

I can imagine you doing it then having to file a PAB for spirit of the bonus breaches

Well, there's certainly enough T&Cs to end up having to file one but the first one is enough to put off anyone who might be making these elaborate crop circles in secret.

Crop Circle Challenge

Terms and conditions



1. Whoever applies for the contest must first send us a video and photo proof of their capability, ie. their “CV” as proof of their previous work on crop circle making. This will fulfill the first basic conditions, which normally serve to distinguish a genuine crop circle from the hoax:

a) Inside the crop circle there must be no footprints;

b) Inside the crop circle there must be no broken stems;

c) the crop circle must be geometrically blameless. (To meet the condition "a) no footprints", the field where the crop circle has been made must be either soaking wet or previously watered with a water cannon.)


Video clips and images of the applicants’ previous work must be in high definition and must clearly demonstrate the whole crop circle creation from beginning to end. For anyone wanting to apply for the contest, all the videos and images submitted must clearly and indisputably show no footprints and no broken stems.


These video and photo images will be thoroughly inspected by EHA group and if found satisfactory, the applicant will be allowed to take on the main challenge. In case the result of the inspection is negative and the applicant is refused, the video and photo material will be published and made public on this website for everyone to see and judge for themselves. This will be necessary to avoid any branding of being a “hoax” or a “hoaxer” of anyone, by any party.

All of that is before you even attempt to make the actual $100,000 crop circle. This is just to be considered and then there are

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So you make a crop circle, send a video of you making it, they reject it and publish the entire thing on their website. Then you get sued by every farmer who lost money from crops that were ruined (whether they were ruined or not) due to a crop circle you had nothing to do with. (Or did for that matter.) And they get credit for publishing videos on their website showing whatever secrets you might have in your crop circle making methods.

What is "geometrically blameless?"

 

[Seventh777]

What is "geometrically blameless?"

And, there you go, that`s the spirit of the bonus breach right there, having a term that no-one understands due to it not making any sense whatsoever will be the killer .

 

[skiny]

Seriously, people can actually get in trouble for making these crop circles. Many farmers have had these things in their fields and they weren't happy about it. I'm sure there are tresspassing charges to deal with, vandalism, destruction of private property, public mischeif.... I really doubt very many people who are doing this are going to film themselves doing it and send it off to some website for the world to see.

 

[Nifty29]

And, there you go, that`s the spirit of the bonus breach right there, having a term that no-one understands due to it not making any sense whatsoever will be the killer .

I assume "geometrically blameless" is akin to "chemically innocent"

 

[Seventh777]

Seriously, people can actually get in trouble for making these crop circles. Many farmers have had these things in their fields and they weren't happy about it. I'm sure there are tresspassing charges to deal with, vandalism, destruction of private property, public mischeif.... I really doubt very many people who are doing this are going to film themselves doing it and send it off to some website for the world to see.

Agreed, although I think this reward had the intent of maybe bringing hoaxers out into the open with the lure of a juicy amount of cash, bearing in mind that hoaxers break all the rules anyway, I would add that if it was me hoaxing I would gladly accept the resulting court case and fines for the sake of $100,000 .

 

[Seventh777]

I assume "geometrically blameless" is akin to "chemically innocent"

Lol, I was thinking more along the lines of "Spherically not guilty" .

 

[Nifty29]

Agreed.

"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes.

This holds true for science but we haven't even eliminated the possible much less the impossible.
Actually evolution is one of the very few things that every single branch of mainstream science agrees on implicitly. The reason for that is that every single branch of science from biology to paleontology to geology to astrophysics all come to the same conclusions through scientific research. It's something that simply can no longer be denied.

I wonder how many creationists just clenched their fists.



Well, it doesn't have to all be debate. I enjoy sharing ideas about the cosmos and the existence of life where ever it might be found. My problem is I start typing and then 10 minutes later I remember that some poor person has to read all this.

This conversation has got me to go back and re-look at some things that I hadn't looked at in a long time which was kind of fun. Not everyone is going to agree on all the answers but the important thing is that we keep asking the questions.

The highlighted part is extremely relevant to all of these discussions.

If I started my investigations from 'ground zero' with a mind to supporting my theory that invisible, highly-intelligent squirrels who live in the stratosphere in an assortment of invisible vessels are reponsible for crop circles, then the process of elimination used by crop circle alien theorists would lead me to conclude that I too was correct, or at least "on to something".

Skiny is right in saying that this quote of Holmes ONLY applies when ALL POSSIBLE explanations have been eliminated.....and in the case of crop circles, they have not.

One thing that always puzzles me about "alien crop circles" is...WHY? Obviously the "message" is not for humans, as it can only be read from the air (if they wanted all humans to receive it a wall or cliff etc would be far more effective). Even further, if they are so advanced to travel vast distances and technology that allows them to create these circles undetected, then what would be the point of using symbols etc etched into crops to communicate? If they wanted to communicate with each other, or perhaps other alien visitors, then presumably they would have some far more advanced method? I mean, we moved on from "pictures in the sand" after the caveman era.

The fact that all these questions remain, along with thousands of others, just confirms that the process of elimination is just not applicable in the case of crop circles......or even alien visitation for that matter.

 

[skiny]

I think there are a lot of people out there who firmly believe in ancient and modern alien visitations but there are also a lot of people out there that know whether it's true or not doesn't change the amount of money that can be made off of selling it as fact. Books, documentaries, websites, articles in magazines and newspapers, research grants, tourism around alien hot spots, novelty and "real" alien artifiacts. The list of ways to make money off of people's belief in this phenomenon is endless and the more people they can convince the more money they can make.

The true believers and the conspiracy theorists may not always be the most honest in their explanations about how and why things have happened or what people have really seen but they are usually the loudest. Even things that can be easily explained are regarded as cover ups. The perpetuated belief in alien visitations is a business as much as it is a cult following. There is no money to be made in proving something doesn't exist once and for all. After that, you're done.

Roswell is a good example of the tourism industry surrounding an alien hot spot. I've never bought into the whole alien crash landing at Roswell no matter how much "proof" surfaces. The whole concept bugs me. Some intelligent alien race in some other part of the cosmos builds a saucer like space craft far beyond anything we're capable of even understanding. A space craft capable of flying millions or even billions of miles across the galaxy toward a tiny speck orbiting what is really a pretty small star by universal standards. Flying in a futuristic space craft capable of navigating through several solar systems, around black holes and massive gravity wells, through or around toxic dust clouds, avoiding space debris, asteroids, solar flares, comets all on a journey to our little planet - and then crashing into it.

Surely this superior race with all their marvelously advanced technology must have anticipated a need to stop the saucer when they got here. Maybe even a way to land it. There have apparently been lots of alien visitations since then and I've really not heard of anymore crash landings. Maybe they sent a message back. "You might want to keep your eyes open after you come around Mars. The little bugger really sneaks up on you."

 

[dionysus]

heehee

 

[P.V.]

Maybe we're Aliens, have emerged from elsewhere. I've always been unbiased towards the unknown.

 

[skiny]

 

[Nifty29]

Thanks for the laughs guys. I needed it

How do we know that aliens aren't watching this thread?

 

[dionysus]

Who says I'm not one of 'them'?

 

[Seventh777]

Interesting video.................



[video=dailymotion;xc1jlz]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc1jlz_nasa-sts-88-black-transforming-ufo_news?start=4[/video]

 

[skiny]

The images in this video were taken from this website

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It would be nice of the alien conspiracy theorists would include the site where the images were obtained and credit given for the photos since these were taken by actual astronauts and are quite likely the property of NASA.

Putting that aside, I don't think some people realize just how much crap is floating around this planet. Pieces of space crap with terrestrial origins are in abundance up there and if you sift through enough photos of derelict satellites and left over launch pieces or pieces left over from explosions or collisions, some of it can look like a space craft if you really want it to.

Here's an estimate taken from Link Removed (invalid URL).

3). How many orbital debris are currently in Earth orbit?
More than 21,000 orbital debris larger than 10 cm are known to exist. The estimated population of particles between 1 and 10 cm in diameter is approximately 500,000. The number of particles smaller than 1 cm exceeds 100 million.

That's 21,000 pieces of mechanical crap roughly a foot long or larger. How many of these do you think could be interesting enough for an astronaut to snap a picture of and then end up looking like an alien space ship?

 

[P.V.]

Google map UFO

Hmmm, Google maps caught a UFO or something!

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[skiny]

Hmmm, Google maps caught a UFO or something!

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[Seventh777]

The images in this video were taken from this website

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It would be nice of the alien conspiracy theorists would include the site where the images were obtained and credit given for the photos since these were taken by actual astronauts and are quite likely the property of NASA.

Putting that aside, I don't think some people realize just how much crap is floating around this planet. Pieces of space crap with terrestrial origins are in abundance up there and if you sift through enough photos of derelict satellites and left over launch pieces or pieces left over from explosions or collisions, some of it can look like a space craft if you really want it to.

Here's an estimate taken from Link Removed (invalid URL).

3). How many orbital debris are currently in Earth orbit?
More than 21,000 orbital debris larger than 10 cm are known to exist. The estimated population of particles between 1 and 10 cm in diameter is approximately 500,000. The number of particles smaller than 1 cm exceeds 100 million.

That's 21,000 pieces of mechanical crap roughly a foot long or larger. How many of these do you think could be interesting enough for an astronaut to snap a picture of and then end up looking like an alien space ship?

Ah, different pieces of space debris, that would explain why it changes shape a lot .

 

[skiny]

Ah, different pieces of space debris, that would explain why it changes shape a lot .

21000 pieces up there bigger than 10cm. Who said it was all the same piece? They're taking pictures from orbit.

 

[Seventh777]

Rather than post the picture here and the relative analysis of it including links and sources, i`ll give the link to all those interested, all I will add is, this picture has undergone a variety of tests to verify it`s authenticity, including a test using software privy to the F.B.I.........

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As of yet there have been no signs of tampering discovered.

 

[skiny]

Sorry, somehow I missed this post. I was wondering what happened to this thread. lol

I agree with most of what is said so far about this photograph and it's certainly an interesting specimen. I used to be an amateur photographer and have probably taken 10s of thousands of photographs. One thing I disagree with is the size and distance. The "expert" (I haven't researched this person so I have no idea of his/her credentials) says "it's level of atmospheric haze indicates to me it is of some distance away and of substantial size (perhaps even the legendary 40ft diameter is not out of the question)."

With no way for anyone to judge the distance of the hills on the horizon in this photograph the "expert" has used the level of haze and deduced that the anomaly is much further away than it appears to me.



In the original photograph you can see the level of haze in both the distant hills and the "object." You can also see the level of detail in the outline of the hills. The detail in the outline of the hills suggests to me that the hills are closer with a great deal of hazing effect rather than very distant with a slight hazing effect. You can also see the image focal length is on the rearview mirror which is the clearest part of the image. (In the original image before I cropped and uploaded it the mirror is perfectly clear and the rest has a slight blur.)
I moved the "object" from the first photograph to the second photograph. The focal length in the photo seems to be roughly the same with the dashboard the clearest part of the image (again it is much clearer before it was resaved and uploaded) and the amount of haze in the object seems to be consistent with some distant rock formations making the object considerably smaller than suggested. Of course there is no way of saying if either one of us is correct since this is a very unscientific way to judge distance in a photograph and is at best an educated guess.



There is also no way of knowing if this is actually an object since it was never seen with a human eye and only exists in one of several photographs taken of the same sky at roughly the same time. The fact that it hadn't been noticed by the people taking the photographs and only exists in one photograph makes it suspicious at best, not as an intended fake but as something other than a physical object. Still images can play tricks on the perceptions of the brain. Very small, extremely close objects can appear to be large distant ones and vice versa. Our brains are far too easily fooled in my opinion to be a reliable source of data collection. lol

All that being said, it is certainly an interesting image and after a very brief investigation I can't say with any certainty I know exactly what it is which is far better than most "UFO" photos can pull off. When I get more time I'll see what else I can dig up on this photo.

 

[Seventh777]

Aye Skiny, it`s definitely an interesting one, there are several hoax investigators using ATS, most are freelance and have access to some serious hardware/software regarding CGI and your basic/complex hoax techniques, a few are ex or still in service alphabet agencies types, when you find time have a trawl around the U.F.O./Alien section and watch them in action ripping apart yet another hoax lol.