Oh and you can add the UK to that list of countries African is involved with. Their registered company address given on the African Palace website is on Oxford Street, London, UK. I was there on Saturday; it's a maildrop. The registered company name is Vestfin Ltd; I will give companies house a call in the morning and find out who the directors are; probably nominee directors but worth a look.
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African Palace Casino STOLE my money
- Thread starter watercreature
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
I hope you gave them your own real inside leg measurement (i.e. not someone else's). If they caught you using multiple inside legs, they would undoubtedly use that as an excuse not to pay you...tjhooker said:
Still no payment for myself either, depsite them asking for my bank details several weeks ago (support confirmed they received them).
They've now started ignoring my emails as well so it doesn't look good at all
They've now started ignoring my emails as well so it doesn't look good at all
How are you playing this Catwoman? Are you emailing Iris and support? Have you tried calling African? Someone on one of the threads mentioned getting paid only after speaking to a manager instead of that same guy who always answers the phone. Be useful to swap ideas on keeping in touch with them, although like you, African support have stopped answering my emails, as has Iris Tolendano.
Possibly a conversation to be continued on PM if you want, save bumping this thread every five minutes?
TJ
Possibly a conversation to be continued on PM if you want, save bumping this thread every five minutes?
TJ
They aren't paying ANYONE
I'm still owed five figures and Iris doesn't respond anymore, nor does African Palace. They've gone so far as closing my account and they also told me when I called them two weeks ago that they won't pay me anything, even under the terms of use anymore, because I put up information about them that was false. It's not false....not getting paid is true. I requested my withdrawal in June, it's now September.
They are obviously going down the tubes, and Playtech is just saying there is nothing they can do.
Looks like we are all S.O.L. on getting our money. Don't know about you but I've switched off of Playtech until I get paid....no matter how much I like their software I'm not playing anywhere where Playtech can get Royalties when I win, and I can't even get my freaking money.
Looks like the Meister can't help us either....
I'm still owed five figures and Iris doesn't respond anymore, nor does African Palace. They've gone so far as closing my account and they also told me when I called them two weeks ago that they won't pay me anything, even under the terms of use anymore, because I put up information about them that was false. It's not false....not getting paid is true. I requested my withdrawal in June, it's now September.
They are obviously going down the tubes, and Playtech is just saying there is nothing they can do.
Looks like we are all S.O.L. on getting our money. Don't know about you but I've switched off of Playtech until I get paid....no matter how much I like their software I'm not playing anywhere where Playtech can get Royalties when I win, and I can't even get my freaking money.
Looks like the Meister can't help us either....
schankwart
Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2003
- Location
- Colony Gamma
"...and Playtech is just saying there is nothing they can do" -Are they?
Just sent an email to African support, and it got answered personally more or less straight away. That's slightly more encouraging I guess, wasn't even getting autoresponder before- this one says they wil be in touch when the payout is processed...
Yes, here's exactly what Playtech said
"Unfortunately, after consulting with our management as well as our legal department, there is nothing more I can do to assist you with this complaint.
I want it to be clear that we do not support their decision, but as you know, there are many Playtech licensees and not all of them follow the same terms and rules but as long as this was clearly stated in the terms we do not have a way to force them to make a different business decision and the final decision is theirs, regardless if we support it."
But, African Palace doesn't even pay under their terms of use, they don't pay anything! They wrote the terms of use on their web site limiting payment to $3,000 per month the night I won....I believe that in my heart and soul. Still, I haven't even gotten payment properly under their terms of use.
It started with other excuses first for non-payment, (1) can't wire to a USA bank, (2) do I have a Netteller account is the next thing they tried (can't have a Netteller account in the US wehre I am, (3) then they said they couldn't deposit over a certain amount into a Firepay account, (4) then they said when all else failed that their terms of use only permitted 3K per month payments, (5) then they closed my account and told me they are not paying me anything because I complained about non-payment.
You can't win with these swindlers.
Good luck getting your money...I've pretty much accepted I'll never get mine.
"Unfortunately, after consulting with our management as well as our legal department, there is nothing more I can do to assist you with this complaint.
I want it to be clear that we do not support their decision, but as you know, there are many Playtech licensees and not all of them follow the same terms and rules but as long as this was clearly stated in the terms we do not have a way to force them to make a different business decision and the final decision is theirs, regardless if we support it."
But, African Palace doesn't even pay under their terms of use, they don't pay anything! They wrote the terms of use on their web site limiting payment to $3,000 per month the night I won....I believe that in my heart and soul. Still, I haven't even gotten payment properly under their terms of use.
It started with other excuses first for non-payment, (1) can't wire to a USA bank, (2) do I have a Netteller account is the next thing they tried (can't have a Netteller account in the US wehre I am, (3) then they said they couldn't deposit over a certain amount into a Firepay account, (4) then they said when all else failed that their terms of use only permitted 3K per month payments, (5) then they closed my account and told me they are not paying me anything because I complained about non-payment.
You can't win with these swindlers.
Good luck getting your money...I've pretty much accepted I'll never get mine.
Terms of Use
Here they are...written the night I won:
"17. The maximum amount that a new player playing at the casino for less than twelve months can cashout when winning USD 5,000, EUR 5000, or R10,000 or more within a 30 day period from all of First Grand Gaming N.V. Casinos, is USD 3000, EUR 3000, or R5000 per month.
18. No more than USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 plus the total amount that you have deposited into your account in the past 30 days, can be withdrawn per month (maximum of USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 in winnings can be withdrawn per month for players registered at the casino for more than twelve months). "
Problem I have with this is I was the highest level VIP with them. They had no problem taking three times the amount I won, now it's time to pay up, waiting since June, and they won't even honor the $3,000 a month.
As the meister said, "some VIP treatment I got"
In contrast, I started playing at 32RED about two weeks ago- THANKS TO THE MEISTER'S RECOMMENDATION (the screenshots which I'll post later so everyone can see) and won twice what I won at African Palace, and got paid in 24 hours.
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE! NO MORE PLAYTECH FOR ME unless I see some payment from African Dump Palace.
I'm telling you I was the HIGHEST level VIP player, and when I won----silence, it was a whole new ball game, suddenly they treated me like crap when I won.....never returned my calls, never returned my e-mails, etc. The terms of use is bullshit, they made it up when all their other excuses failed. Who would be the wiser? I can update my web site in 5 minutes and put anything up I want.
They are FULL OF SHIT!
Here they are...written the night I won:
"17. The maximum amount that a new player playing at the casino for less than twelve months can cashout when winning USD 5,000, EUR 5000, or R10,000 or more within a 30 day period from all of First Grand Gaming N.V. Casinos, is USD 3000, EUR 3000, or R5000 per month.
18. No more than USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 plus the total amount that you have deposited into your account in the past 30 days, can be withdrawn per month (maximum of USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 in winnings can be withdrawn per month for players registered at the casino for more than twelve months). "
Problem I have with this is I was the highest level VIP with them. They had no problem taking three times the amount I won, now it's time to pay up, waiting since June, and they won't even honor the $3,000 a month.
As the meister said, "some VIP treatment I got"
In contrast, I started playing at 32RED about two weeks ago- THANKS TO THE MEISTER'S RECOMMENDATION (the screenshots which I'll post later so everyone can see) and won twice what I won at African Palace, and got paid in 24 hours.
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE! NO MORE PLAYTECH FOR ME unless I see some payment from African Dump Palace.
I'm telling you I was the HIGHEST level VIP player, and when I won----silence, it was a whole new ball game, suddenly they treated me like crap when I won.....never returned my calls, never returned my e-mails, etc. The terms of use is bullshit, they made it up when all their other excuses failed. Who would be the wiser? I can update my web site in 5 minutes and put anything up I want.
They are FULL OF SHIT!
sookie said:
Wow. Why aren't Playtech up on the rogue list?
They are refusing to help?
They are endorsing a decision to steal tens of thousands of dollars?
That's sick.
And even more sick considering that they must make much more than that every year in licensing revenue from African Palace.
'Dear Player,
According to the casino's terms and conditions, they can steal your money.
We don't give a shit, as we are laughing all the way to the bank with our share of the stolen money that we can continue to earn from this casino.
Regards,
Playtech'
This is outrageous.
Playtech makes tens of millions in revenue in a year, and is prepared to do NOTHING to protect people cheated. Their dispute resolution says 'there is nothing we can do, because we aren't actually prepared to help you, and we're just hear to help our licensees make more money.
Wrong, very wrong.
Then you get nothing when you tell the truth...
To boot I don't get shit now according to African Palace because god forbid I should have enough balls to tell the world what a bunch of con artists they are.
We are out here gambling to get paid when we win, not sit around and beg for our f***ing money for 3 months.
It's a bunch of BS, and Playtech loses my business all around until they get up off their back ends and do something!
To boot I don't get shit now according to African Palace because god forbid I should have enough balls to tell the world what a bunch of con artists they are.
We are out here gambling to get paid when we win, not sit around and beg for our f***ing money for 3 months.
It's a bunch of BS, and Playtech loses my business all around until they get up off their back ends and do something!
sookie said:
It's not about Playtech losing business. They need to put their hand in their pocket and pay.
But they won't because they are clearly not aiming to be the upstanding reputable business that will succeed in the future more regulated online gaming market, and instead just stick to being some offshore casino company that just cares about shifting as many casino licenses as they can.
With Playtech possibly heading for IPO, I can't see why they can't recognise that the companies that will make the megabucks won't be the home of African Palace, it will be the safe, regulated casinos such as Microgaming, Boss or Cryptologi.
I guess what I still don't understand is which of those terms and conditions relate to not being paid out at all? I can understand Playtech if they looked at the monthly limit and then told you that was binding. What I can't understand is what clause they are using not to pay you at all? What clause in the terms and conditions says that they don't have to pay you at all, and for which Playtech is agreeing with?
Playtech
When I was getting the runaround with African Palace on my payment, which was requested around 6/14/05, I knew something was wrong. After a month I still hadn't been paid a dime and they were making excuse after excuse. Finally when they through up the terms of use crap to try to limit my payouts I said "how can you do that when I lost three times what I won with you and you e-mailed me saying I was the highest level VIP entitled to faster payouts, etc.". I told them to try to lift the limits and pay me like I should be paid-if you knew how much I played you would say those T&C should not apply to me. They kept saying they would try to do something but then two months later I had received $3,000 total. Now it's about 3 months plus and I've gotten a total of $4,500. That doesn't add up to $3,000 per month, huh?
So then I complained to Playtech. That's when they said that they couldn't do anything about the terms of use and that was that.
So....then I contacted the meister, who said I should have read those terms of use (that like I said were probably made up the night I won and put on the site).
Playtech since won't respond to me anymore and African Palace got on the phone with me (David) and said he ain't paying me nothing because I put something on the site about them.
Playtech hasn't responded to this so I guess they don't give a rat's ass whether I ever get paid or not. Their loss, I was one of the top player's at their casinos.
I will say that the fact that 2,100+ viewers have read this gives me some satisfaction that my voice will not be left unheard and that others will avoid this casino and Playtech until they get their acts together.
We're playing here and risking our asses to get paid when we win! Maybe they'll realize that one day!
When I was getting the runaround with African Palace on my payment, which was requested around 6/14/05, I knew something was wrong. After a month I still hadn't been paid a dime and they were making excuse after excuse. Finally when they through up the terms of use crap to try to limit my payouts I said "how can you do that when I lost three times what I won with you and you e-mailed me saying I was the highest level VIP entitled to faster payouts, etc.". I told them to try to lift the limits and pay me like I should be paid-if you knew how much I played you would say those T&C should not apply to me. They kept saying they would try to do something but then two months later I had received $3,000 total. Now it's about 3 months plus and I've gotten a total of $4,500. That doesn't add up to $3,000 per month, huh?
So then I complained to Playtech. That's when they said that they couldn't do anything about the terms of use and that was that.
So....then I contacted the meister, who said I should have read those terms of use (that like I said were probably made up the night I won and put on the site).
Playtech since won't respond to me anymore and African Palace got on the phone with me (David) and said he ain't paying me nothing because I put something on the site about them.
Playtech hasn't responded to this so I guess they don't give a rat's ass whether I ever get paid or not. Their loss, I was one of the top player's at their casinos.
I will say that the fact that 2,100+ viewers have read this gives me some satisfaction that my voice will not be left unheard and that others will avoid this casino and Playtech until they get their acts together.
We're playing here and risking our asses to get paid when we win! Maybe they'll realize that one day!
I agree that on this basis Playtech should be considered a rogue provider from this point.
That ain't going to happen, because 30% of Playtech's profits go back to their affiliates, and the cash cow is not about to be put out to pasture.
And the simple reason Playtech won't do anything is because they don't, at this point, feel they need to. They're making out very nicely and don't see any reason to piss off any of their licensees. If that changed, if pressure were brought, they might rethink. But at the moment it's staus quo and let's not rock the boat, boys.
In fact, the claim that they can "do nothing" is ridiculous: they can revoke any license any time they want. As far as their licensees go, they are omnipotent.
That ain't going to happen, because 30% of Playtech's profits go back to their affiliates, and the cash cow is not about to be put out to pasture.
And the simple reason Playtech won't do anything is because they don't, at this point, feel they need to. They're making out very nicely and don't see any reason to piss off any of their licensees. If that changed, if pressure were brought, they might rethink. But at the moment it's staus quo and let's not rock the boat, boys.
In fact, the claim that they can "do nothing" is ridiculous: they can revoke any license any time they want. As far as their licensees go, they are omnipotent.
I agree too, although it's a very difficult call from an affiliate point of view. As a partner in a brand new affiliate website, I am faced with having to decide whether to propose terminating all the Playtech links due to lack of confidence in the company. To be honest, I know they are not up there with boss/crypto, but I always considered them to be very above-board and fair, and certainly as a director Iris isn't one to hide behind a web of secrecy like the staff of so many other gaming providers- the web is full of press releases and interviews with her- the kind of thing that made me happy to spend my money with them.
I'm just so disapointed in all concerned. African has a great website and has made the most of the Playtech customisation- they run on a fast server and the graphics and sound are top notch. And armed with a great repuatation i'm sure they would create a long-term business success, with many happy players. I know I would have been back to spend most if not all of my winnings there. At the end of the day this is the place I managed to turn 200 into 5000 (just as I have turned 1000 into 0 many many times), and instead of paying out quickly and asking me back, they've put me through absolute hell, and in the process turned me off the entire web gambling thing altogether. Playtech, for their part, are being very small-minded if they don't underwrite rogue casinos, it can't do their business any good, especially in a climate of possible IPOs.
After a year of playing casinos, i'm just stunned that this is actually happening to me, and from a brand I trusted. In a forum of big VIP players some of you may be able to put this down to experience; for a small-time player like me, it's wiped out my bankroll and more.
TJ
I'm just so disapointed in all concerned. African has a great website and has made the most of the Playtech customisation- they run on a fast server and the graphics and sound are top notch. And armed with a great repuatation i'm sure they would create a long-term business success, with many happy players. I know I would have been back to spend most if not all of my winnings there. At the end of the day this is the place I managed to turn 200 into 5000 (just as I have turned 1000 into 0 many many times), and instead of paying out quickly and asking me back, they've put me through absolute hell, and in the process turned me off the entire web gambling thing altogether. Playtech, for their part, are being very small-minded if they don't underwrite rogue casinos, it can't do their business any good, especially in a climate of possible IPOs.
After a year of playing casinos, i'm just stunned that this is actually happening to me, and from a brand I trusted. In a forum of big VIP players some of you may be able to put this down to experience; for a small-time player like me, it's wiped out my bankroll and more.
TJ
Dirk Diggler
Dormant account
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2004
- Location
- UK
A suggestion for anyone who is that seriously p*ssed with Playtech's hands off approach to their licensees could be to write an article about all the goings on.
Then send it to the Financial Times and Independent etc (and all the other financial focused British press) whom I'm sure would be very interested on the unethical behaviour of a compnay looking to list on the FTSE......just a thought mind you :icon_twis
Then send it to the Financial Times and Independent etc (and all the other financial focused British press) whom I'm sure would be very interested on the unethical behaviour of a compnay looking to list on the FTSE......just a thought mind you :icon_twis
Last edited:
yep
"19 Sep 05 - Playtech Next Gaming Company Eyeing IPO
Gaming software developer Playtech, corporately based in Cyprus, are reported to be investigating a possible listing on the London Stock Exchange. "
(from wol)
This is exciting. Maybe some investors would be very keen to know how playtech makes its money with their very cool hands-off attitude when it comes to its licencees. Seems like their dispute system is not very functional as it does NOTHING. If it points out to the casino that you should propably pay this player but we dont give a f..k if you do or dont, its clearly not working very well.
-kavaman
"19 Sep 05 - Playtech Next Gaming Company Eyeing IPO
Gaming software developer Playtech, corporately based in Cyprus, are reported to be investigating a possible listing on the London Stock Exchange. "
(from wol)
This is exciting. Maybe some investors would be very keen to know how playtech makes its money with their very cool hands-off attitude when it comes to its licencees. Seems like their dispute system is not very functional as it does NOTHING. If it points out to the casino that you should propably pay this player but we dont give a f..k if you do or dont, its clearly not working very well.
-kavaman
Good brief, that beggars belief. They're looking for a listing on the London stock exchange, while flat abandoning their players and offering a licensee free for all?
No way they'd ever get a listing.
No way they'd ever get a listing.
Does anyone have the UK freephone number for African? They've changed their website again overnight and the new support number they have changed it to a) isn't freephone and b) doesn't work. Their live help is inactive at the moment.
Thanks
Thanks
Bruce Hamilton
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Location
- USA
Discussing the best way to launder their stolen money, no doubt.tjhooker said:
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