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African Palace Casino STOLE my money

Oh and you can add the UK to that list of countries African is involved with. Their registered company address given on the African Palace website is on Oxford Street, London, UK. I was there on Saturday; it's a maildrop. The registered company name is Vestfin Ltd; I will give companies house a call in the morning and find out who the directors are; probably nominee directors but worth a look.
 
tjhooker said:
I have given all my details, my bank account details, credit card numbers, inside leg measurement and favourite marx brothers film. Since I claimed my winnings London has won an Olympic Games, England has won the cricket and I have grown a long beard... TJ
Click to expand...
I hope you gave them your own real inside leg measurement (i.e. not someone else's). If they caught you using multiple inside legs, they would undoubtedly use that as an excuse not to pay you... :D
 
Still no payment for myself either, depsite them asking for my bank details several weeks ago (support confirmed they received them).

They've now started ignoring my emails as well so it doesn't look good at all :(
 
How are you playing this Catwoman? Are you emailing Iris and support? Have you tried calling African? Someone on one of the threads mentioned getting paid only after speaking to a manager instead of that same guy who always answers the phone. Be useful to swap ideas on keeping in touch with them, although like you, African support have stopped answering my emails, as has Iris Tolendano.

Possibly a conversation to be continued on PM if you want, save bumping this thread every five minutes?

TJ
 
They aren't paying ANYONE

I'm still owed five figures and Iris doesn't respond anymore, nor does African Palace. They've gone so far as closing my account and they also told me when I called them two weeks ago that they won't pay me anything, even under the terms of use anymore, because I put up information about them that was false. It's not false....not getting paid is true. I requested my withdrawal in June, it's now September.

They are obviously going down the tubes, and Playtech is just saying there is nothing they can do.

Looks like we are all S.O.L. on getting our money. Don't know about you but I've switched off of Playtech until I get paid....no matter how much I like their software I'm not playing anywhere where Playtech can get Royalties when I win, and I can't even get my freaking money.

Looks like the Meister can't help us either....
 
Just sent an email to African support, and it got answered personally more or less straight away. That's slightly more encouraging I guess, wasn't even getting autoresponder before- this one says they wil be in touch when the payout is processed...
 
Yes, here's exactly what Playtech said

"Unfortunately, after consulting with our management as well as our legal department, there is nothing more I can do to assist you with this complaint.

I want it to be clear that we do not support their decision, but as you know, there are many Playtech licensees and not all of them follow the same terms and rules but as long as this was clearly stated in the terms we do not have a way to force them to make a different business decision and the final decision is theirs, regardless if we support it."

But, African Palace doesn't even pay under their terms of use, they don't pay anything! They wrote the terms of use on their web site limiting payment to $3,000 per month the night I won....I believe that in my heart and soul. Still, I haven't even gotten payment properly under their terms of use.

It started with other excuses first for non-payment, (1) can't wire to a USA bank, (2) do I have a Netteller account is the next thing they tried (can't have a Netteller account in the US wehre I am, (3) then they said they couldn't deposit over a certain amount into a Firepay account, (4) then they said when all else failed that their terms of use only permitted 3K per month payments, (5) then they closed my account and told me they are not paying me anything because I complained about non-payment.

You can't win with these swindlers.

Good luck getting your money...I've pretty much accepted I'll never get mine.
 
Terms of Use

Here they are...written the night I won:

"17. The maximum amount that a new player playing at the casino for less than twelve months can cashout when winning USD 5,000, EUR 5000, or R10,000 or more within a 30 day period from all of First Grand Gaming N.V. Casinos, is USD 3000, EUR 3000, or R5000 per month.

18. No more than USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 plus the total amount that you have deposited into your account in the past 30 days, can be withdrawn per month (maximum of USD 20,000, EUR 20,000, or R50,000 in winnings can be withdrawn per month for players registered at the casino for more than twelve months). "

Problem I have with this is I was the highest level VIP with them. They had no problem taking three times the amount I won, now it's time to pay up, waiting since June, and they won't even honor the $3,000 a month.

As the meister said, "some VIP treatment I got"

In contrast, I started playing at 32RED about two weeks ago- THANKS TO THE MEISTER'S RECOMMENDATION (the screenshots which I'll post later so everyone can see) and won twice what I won at African Palace, and got paid in 24 hours.

NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE! NO MORE PLAYTECH FOR ME unless I see some payment from African Dump Palace.

I'm telling you I was the HIGHEST level VIP player, and when I won----silence, it was a whole new ball game, suddenly they treated me like crap when I won.....never returned my calls, never returned my e-mails, etc. The terms of use is bullshit, they made it up when all their other excuses failed. Who would be the wiser? I can update my web site in 5 minutes and put anything up I want.

They are FULL OF SHIT!
 
sookie said:
"Unfortunately, after consulting with our management as well as our legal department, there is nothing more I can do to assist you with this complaint.

I want it to be clear that we do not support their decision, but as you know, there are many Playtech licensees and not all of them follow the same terms and rules but as long as this was clearly stated in the terms we do not have a way to force them to make a different business decision and the final decision is theirs, regardless if we support it."
Click to expand...

Wow. Why aren't Playtech up on the rogue list?

They are refusing to help?

They are endorsing a decision to steal tens of thousands of dollars?

That's sick.

And even more sick considering that they must make much more than that every year in licensing revenue from African Palace.

'Dear Player,

According to the casino's terms and conditions, they can steal your money.

We don't give a shit, as we are laughing all the way to the bank with our share of the stolen money that we can continue to earn from this casino.

Regards,

Playtech'

This is outrageous.

Playtech makes tens of millions in revenue in a year, and is prepared to do NOTHING to protect people cheated. Their dispute resolution says 'there is nothing we can do, because we aren't actually prepared to help you, and we're just hear to help our licensees make more money.

Wrong, very wrong.
 
Then you get nothing when you tell the truth...

To boot I don't get shit now according to African Palace because god forbid I should have enough balls to tell the world what a bunch of con artists they are.

We are out here gambling to get paid when we win, not sit around and beg for our f***ing money for 3 months.

It's a bunch of BS, and Playtech loses my business all around until they get up off their back ends and do something!
 
sookie said:
To boot I don't get shit now according to African Palace because god forbid I should have enough balls to tell the world what a bunch of con artists they are.

We are out here gambling to get paid when we win, not sit around and beg for our f***ing money for 3 months.

It's a bunch of BS, and Playtech loses my business all around until they get up off their back ends and do something!
Click to expand...

It's not about Playtech losing business. They need to put their hand in their pocket and pay.

But they won't because they are clearly not aiming to be the upstanding reputable business that will succeed in the future more regulated online gaming market, and instead just stick to being some offshore casino company that just cares about shifting as many casino licenses as they can.

With Playtech possibly heading for IPO, I can't see why they can't recognise that the companies that will make the megabucks won't be the home of African Palace, it will be the safe, regulated casinos such as Microgaming, Boss or Cryptologi.
 
I guess what I still don't understand is which of those terms and conditions relate to not being paid out at all? I can understand Playtech if they looked at the monthly limit and then told you that was binding. What I can't understand is what clause they are using not to pay you at all? What clause in the terms and conditions says that they don't have to pay you at all, and for which Playtech is agreeing with?
 
Playtech

When I was getting the runaround with African Palace on my payment, which was requested around 6/14/05, I knew something was wrong. After a month I still hadn't been paid a dime and they were making excuse after excuse. Finally when they through up the terms of use crap to try to limit my payouts I said "how can you do that when I lost three times what I won with you and you e-mailed me saying I was the highest level VIP entitled to faster payouts, etc.". I told them to try to lift the limits and pay me like I should be paid-if you knew how much I played you would say those T&C should not apply to me. They kept saying they would try to do something but then two months later I had received $3,000 total. Now it's about 3 months plus and I've gotten a total of $4,500. That doesn't add up to $3,000 per month, huh?

So then I complained to Playtech. That's when they said that they couldn't do anything about the terms of use and that was that.

So....then I contacted the meister, who said I should have read those terms of use (that like I said were probably made up the night I won and put on the site).

Playtech since won't respond to me anymore and African Palace got on the phone with me (David) and said he ain't paying me nothing because I put something on the site about them.

Playtech hasn't responded to this so I guess they don't give a rat's ass whether I ever get paid or not. Their loss, I was one of the top player's at their casinos.

I will say that the fact that 2,100+ viewers have read this gives me some satisfaction that my voice will not be left unheard and that others will avoid this casino and Playtech until they get their acts together.

We're playing here and risking our asses to get paid when we win! Maybe they'll realize that one day!
 
I agree that on this basis Playtech should be considered a rogue provider from this point.

That ain't going to happen, because 30% of Playtech's profits go back to their affiliates, and the cash cow is not about to be put out to pasture.

And the simple reason Playtech won't do anything is because they don't, at this point, feel they need to. They're making out very nicely and don't see any reason to piss off any of their licensees. If that changed, if pressure were brought, they might rethink. But at the moment it's staus quo and let's not rock the boat, boys.

In fact, the claim that they can "do nothing" is ridiculous: they can revoke any license any time they want. As far as their licensees go, they are omnipotent.
 
I agree too, although it's a very difficult call from an affiliate point of view. As a partner in a brand new affiliate website, I am faced with having to decide whether to propose terminating all the Playtech links due to lack of confidence in the company. To be honest, I know they are not up there with boss/crypto, but I always considered them to be very above-board and fair, and certainly as a director Iris isn't one to hide behind a web of secrecy like the staff of so many other gaming providers- the web is full of press releases and interviews with her- the kind of thing that made me happy to spend my money with them.

I'm just so disapointed in all concerned. African has a great website and has made the most of the Playtech customisation- they run on a fast server and the graphics and sound are top notch. And armed with a great repuatation i'm sure they would create a long-term business success, with many happy players. I know I would have been back to spend most if not all of my winnings there. At the end of the day this is the place I managed to turn 200 into 5000 (just as I have turned 1000 into 0 many many times), and instead of paying out quickly and asking me back, they've put me through absolute hell, and in the process turned me off the entire web gambling thing altogether. Playtech, for their part, are being very small-minded if they don't underwrite rogue casinos, it can't do their business any good, especially in a climate of possible IPOs.

After a year of playing casinos, i'm just stunned that this is actually happening to me, and from a brand I trusted. In a forum of big VIP players some of you may be able to put this down to experience; for a small-time player like me, it's wiped out my bankroll and more.

TJ
 
A suggestion for anyone who is that seriously p*ssed with Playtech's hands off approach to their licensees could be to write an article about all the goings on.

Then send it to the Financial Times and Independent etc (and all the other financial focused British press) whom I'm sure would be very interested on the unethical behaviour of a compnay looking to list on the FTSE......just a thought mind you :icon_twis
 
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yep

"19 Sep 05 - Playtech Next Gaming Company Eyeing IPO
Gaming software developer Playtech, corporately based in Cyprus, are reported to be investigating a possible listing on the London Stock Exchange. "

(from wol)

This is exciting. Maybe some investors would be very keen to know how playtech makes its money with their very cool hands-off attitude when it comes to its licencees. Seems like their dispute system is not very functional as it does NOTHING. If it points out to the casino that you should propably pay this player but we dont give a f..k if you do or dont, its clearly not working very well.

-kavaman
 
Good brief, that beggars belief. They're looking for a listing on the London stock exchange, while flat abandoning their players and offering a licensee free for all?

No way they'd ever get a listing.
 
Does anyone have the UK freephone number for African? They've changed their website again overnight and the new support number they have changed it to a) isn't freephone and b) doesn't work. Their live help is inactive at the moment.

Thanks
 
IRIS e-mailed me too

God, thank goodness Playtech is finally are doing something about this rathole. Let's see what happens.

I feel like calling them up and telling them "I told you so". African Palace said that I was defenseless when I last talked to them (David-the manager from hell) and he also told me I'd never be paid another dime.
 
What I find odd is that we are all having totally different experiences. I've never spoken to anyone at African apart from the guy who answers the phone and says everyone is out. Is that David and am I being a bit of a mug, or is there really someone else I can talk to? I've never had a conversation with African about anything else but "is there anyone there I can speak to", to which I get a "they are all in a meeting" or something equally as bad. Do you ask for this 'David' or is that him who answers the phone?

Iris seems genuine enough, though the time taken to answer makes me think she probably has quite a lot of this to deal with. She's never given me any indication that I wouldn't be paid, unlike some people on here, but again my dialogue with her has not been anything over and above "help" and her replies have been quite short, certainly not the kind of response detailed earlier in this thread about legal teams and stuff.

Let continue to share our experiences so we are all working together. Unite and fight and all that!

TJ
 
Who to talk to..or waste your time with I should say

Actually, I was pretty persistent about talking to a live person there and I bugged the living heck out of them trying to get them to talk to me about my withdrawal via the live chat and via phone (which is probably why they have now closed my account-so now I can't even manage the withdrawal that they won't pay me! How wonderful for me!). Then I asked why they closed my account the other day on the live chat 1)1st they said it was a software glitch on Sunday night 2) then on Monday they said I requested the account to be closed and they would have management reopen it by sending them an e-mail, and 3)now I can't get any reponse from them via e-mail.

So back to who to talk to. They put this guy David in charge of my withdrawal...they said he was handling it and was the only one I could talk to. Of course, he was never there when I inquired about things.

And, this guy knows NOTHING about customer service or customer happiness. Otherwise he wouldn't let a VIP playing tons of money slip away just on the one occasion that I won. I told them that was the DUMBEST decision their management could have made.

David assured me that he had taken my withdrawal matter to the highest level of management. That scares me, because the decision they made NOT to pay me and just to piss me off, close my account, not respond to me. It took me like 10 tries each time to get ahold of David. He promised me time after time that he would call me....never to return my calls. So I'm not sure what good it would do to contact him. He has no sense of customer service anyway, and will try to blame you for not getting your own money paid to you.

Now they've closed my account, won't return my e-mails, nothing. And David's last words to me was that I get NOTHING, NOT ANOTHER DIME from African Palace, NOT EVEN ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF USE (which I shouldn't be subject to anyway), because their marketing manager said I am spreading lies about them on web sites.

Right, gimme my freaking money you con artists....

I think Iris didn't realize until she got a bunch of complaints that this group was trying to stiff everyone.

Let's pray we get paid, by whomever at this point, I don't care...I want my money as I'm sure everyone due money from this armpit casino does.
 
I got paid today! My afflilate (gambling website) manager has gone beyond his duty to ensure this. And Bryan himself has done alot to help me get paid. Thanks to everyone that helped and good luck for the people that did not get paid.
 
Got my money - after 2 months

For some reason African Palace have decided to pay me my 500 USD. I have been in constant battle with them for 2 months (including PAB here on CM and complaining to Playtech (who never answered)) anyway just to let you know that there is hope....good luck to you all hope they pay up :thumbsup:
 
Don't let this dump fool ANYBODY

They may have paid out $500, but I'm still here almost 4 months later ... my account was involuntarily closed by African Palace---they won't even respond to any request...and they owe me five figures....

Still a dump to me.
 
kavaman said:
I have been looking out for problems arising from this group that owns indio casino and african palace since its "change" to playtech software. Many people on their old software at indio were left unpaid, some were paid part or all. They didn't even have the withdrawal option at their old software in the end.

Basically what i think they did:screwed some people over with their old software got some cash from doing it , then bought playtech software, put up some promos that were not good enough for the casino, lost the cash they had, and are now in financial trouble doing this advantage player trick.

-kavaman
Click to expand...

Perhaps they are saving up for a Microgaming licence. :)
 
sookie said:
They may have paid out $500, but I'm still here almost 4 months later ... my account was involuntarily closed by African Palace---they won't even respond to any request...and they owe me five figures....

Still a dump to me.
Click to expand...
According to the casino, they've been paying you $3000 per month for the past 4 months - a total of $12,000, and they say they are on schedule. Have you been paid this amount or not?
 
Terms of Use - Apply When Convenient at Afican Palace

How convenient of them to BACK INTO their terms of use (that they made up the night I won).

Let's be honest about what REALLY hapened-shall we?

Now that were are fully exposed here---let's look at the numbers.

Won $15K around June 1st or so. Asked for a wire transfer. Got $7,500 in my Firepay account around June 10th or so (not what I asked for payment wise) and then had no idea what happened to the other $7,500. Logged into my account and it was returned to my account without any notification of why. This was another delay scheme by the way, every time they pay you something they return the rest of the money to your account to delay payment further. And....no mention of terms of use at that point-they paid over it! I was also sent an e-mail prior to this win from the Casino saying I was the HIGHEST level VIP entitled to higher and quicker payouts-YEAH RIGHT!

Then I decided to play the $7,500 after no one would respond to me at AP about why they returned the money. Then I won $24K. Cool! I was happy.

Not so cool---then their response was NON EXISTENT after I won.

I waited since about June 14th or so (when I withdrew the 24k) for about 2 weeks, no responses, nothing. Finally got them n the phone (DAVID FROM HELL) and he said NOTHING about the terms of use. They made the first excuse that they could not wire funds to a US bank account due to new regs (BULLSHIT-everyone else does it). Then when I said-just pay me anyway you can-how about Firepay? Then they said Firepay was based in Bermuda and their was a limit to how much they could deposit to a Firepay account. I diffused that by asking Firepay, who said there was no limit and that it was not true. All the responses were sent to African Palace who just ignored me after I won. They are nice as PIE to their losers.

By then I knew they were trying to avoid paying me. Then the final excuse was the terms of use (NEVER MENTIONED PRIOR TO THIS) that they could only pay me $3,000 per month. I told them I was the highest level VIP and to reconsider.

That's when they told me NOPE! and I said, everyone will know that if they play with you they won't get paid...I will see to that.

I published my info here and sent a complaint to Playtech. Here we are 4 months later, and they still owe me $19,500. They paid me a total of:

$7,500 in June (violating the terms of use)
$3,000 in July
$1,500 in August
nothing since.

I love how the terms of use apply (and are made up) and are backed into when convenient. Yeah, that's 12,000 over 4 months, but it's clearly backing into the terms of use because they are pissed off that they were exposed.

My last conversation with David from AP about two weeks ago ended in him saying I wouldn't get another dime, even under the terms of use, for exposing their name and posting untruths about them.

Any serious player is wasting their time with this casino. It took them two months to pay Watercreature $1,500. Come on now...a dump is a dump
 
No problem...

Mellow it is....I am exhausted from trying anyway. I meant to say David, the best casino manager in the world-how's that?

Sorry, but when someone is nothing but rude to you...you can't help but feel a special bond between you ....
 
What a joke!! Deposit, meet all the requirements and then get penalized for it!! Sometimes I just sit with my mouth hanging open at the brazen nerve of some of these casinos!! Hopefully the "Meister" can help.....
 
Warning-if you want to wait to get paid for 8 months, play at African Palace

Just want you to know that African Palace has paid me now according to their terms of use, $3,000 per month. But don't be impressed. That means it will take me 8 months to get paid from them in full. I was the highest possible level VIP player. This is a warning that you should NEVER play here if you intend on winnning and getting paid timely. Not for the serious, or even semi-serious player. Play somewhere where they pay you ASAP like 32 RED. I was treated the WORST I have ever been treated by this casino, and it was the worst playing experience (winning experience) I've ever had-in fact it's the ONLY bad experience I've ever had with an online casino.

African Palace - it's like a dollar store compared to 32 Red, which is more like Saks Fifth Avenue.

The only gratification I can get out of posting these notices is to make sure others are warned and avoid this place. Obviously posting these types of things doesn't help me get paid, and when you are owed five figures, you can see that I must be pretty upset and disgusted with this place risk my own money by warning people. But I don't care, everyone should know that if they play here and win, they'll try to avoid paying you ANY WAY THEY CAN!

And, Playtech did NOTHING for me, so no more Playtech for me either, since they have no control over the users of their software!


STAY AWAY IF YOU ARE SMART!
 
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sookie said:
Just want you to know that African Palace has paid me now according to their terms of use, $3,000 per month. But don't be impressed. That means it will take me 8 months to get paid from them in full. I was the highest possible level VIP player. This is a warning that you should NEVER play here if you intend on winnning and getting paid timely. Not for the serious, or even semi-serious player. Play somewhere where they pay you ASAP like 32 RED. I was treated the WORST I have ever been treated by this casino, and it was the worst playing experience (winning experience) I've ever had-in fact it's the ONLY bad experience I've ever had with an online casino.

African Palace - it's like a dollar store compared to 32 Red, which is more like Saks Fifth Avenue.

The only gratification I can get out of posting these notices is to make sure others are warned and avoid this place. Obviously posting these types of things doesn't help me get paid, and when you are owed five figures, you can see that I must be pretty upset and disgusted with this place risk my own money by warning people. But I don't care, everyone should know that if they play here and win, they'll try to avoid paying you ANY WAY THEY CAN!

And, Playtech did NOTHING for me, so no more Playtech for me either, since they have no control over the users of their software!
Click to expand...

So how did you get paid if Playtech didn't help? I am a little confused.
 
Terms of Use

They are subjecting me to their terms of use for players less than 12 months with the casino. So they are paying me $3,000 per month, which means it will take 8 months to get paid in full. Maybe read the history further down in the post. Playtech said all they can do is make them honor their terms of use. I say that's bullshit when you play 5 times what you win, get promoted to the highest level VIP, then finally when you win...they dissapear and won't talk to you anymore (African Palace). I guess the Rogue list speaks for itself though.
 
sookie said:
They are subjecting me to their terms of use for players less than 12 months with the casino. So they are paying me $3,000 per month, which means it will take 8 months to get paid in full.
Click to expand...

I understand your frustration, but getting paid (even if it takes 8 months) is better than not getting paid at all, correct?
 
That's true, but if you played like I play

You'd feel the EXACT same way. In fact, you would probably pass out and fall over if I told you how much they got before I won anything. They were absolutely fabulous when I was losing!

I even sent Playtech my complete pay history...which should have literally made them sick to see that a player like me would be subjected to their stupid terms of use.

They made those terms of use up when they ran into financial problems-I guarantee it! I can change my companies web site in 15 minutes, and you wouldn't be the wiser unless you copied the terms of use to your local machine when you signed up with the casino.

No more Playtech for me, everyone else can do what they want, but not me. They don't want to help after seeing my play history, they can all kiss my money goodbye. No Playtech casino will ever get another dime from me. And I've played at Brandy, Mapau, and always been paid immediately, but it only takes one Playtech experience to make me take a stance. If they cannot control the users of their software, then who can?

I'm off to 32 Red where they pay you in 24 hours!
 
Sookie, I do understand the high level of frustration and can empathize with how upset you are. I just wanted to inject a thought that it could be worse than it is ... it should be a lot better, you're right.

Always plan for and expect the worst case scenario, then hope for the best.
 
Hi everyone, just thought i'd update the forum on my own situation with African Palace (see many previous posts in this thread for details).

I am still owed 5000 from this casino, and having been through Playtech, Bryan here on the site, and attempts to deal with the casino direct, I have received none of my winnings at all. What is particularly is is that unlike other people on here, I have never been accused of mis-reading terms and conditions, or bonus abusing, or anything else. I think everyone (including the casino) is clear that I won the money 100% legitimately, but I have been met with a complete brick-wall. I did think at one point that the marketing director of Playtech was fighting my corner, but last I heard from her was "let me know when you get paid". I have recently sent Bryan an update by email, but have heard nothing (while I am aware that he has no special powers, I did read that he had met with Iris in person so thought he may have had more chance of a sucessful communication with Playtech). I have given up emailing the casino as I just get the auto responses, and every time I phone the manage is in a meeting.

So Bryan, if you are reading this, or Iris, or African Palace, or anyone who has recently been paid- please get in touch. As I have said before, this is not money I can afford to write off.

Thanks for reading guys

TJ
 
Thanks for the reply Bryan, I know you do this out of the goodness of your heart, and it helps somewhat to know that someone out there at least cares!

More updates as and when i get them. I'm going to try African Palace themselves again for a bit now, as some people seem to have got resolution from them directly.
 

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