Absurd bonus rule

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
Without saying anything I just want to post an email I received from Miami Club Casino regarding a Withdrawal of my winnings. It's as follows:
Withdrawal Declined -- MI0099866033
Thank you for choosing us.
Your withdrawal for US$1030.00 via Check by Courier has been declined as you have breached our bonus rules.
Please see rule below:
The maximum individual wager permitted using an active bonus is $2.00 on any single pay-line on any slot game and a maximum single wager of $10.00 on any game. Players placing wagers using an active bonus in excess of this maximum will forfeit any winnings earned from said wagers.
As a result a total of US$920.17 has been removed from your account balance and your last deposit of US$110.00 remains.
If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best Regards,
END
I wanted to know how they came up with the $920.17 to deduct. Seeing how it was my money I felt it was my right to request a detailed report for every penny they deducted. I have yet to receive the report let alone even a reply to the most ridiculous excuse for not paying me. Makes me wonder how bad their financial condition must be.
 

Slottery

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Seems they voided your whole gameplay with that bonus you were betting over limit in bonus terms and left your last deposit which was used to take that bonus to your account, so you still have your whole deposit there to play with.

That's quite common what many operators do when you breach max bet rule, void all gameplay and leave deposit on your account to play with.
 

Maikel

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Location
Amsterdam
Hi Guys,

I play a lot at Loyal Casino. Does someone have experience with this casino because i dont see any rating for it.
Honestly i had a lot of lost no matter what i did at the roulette table, just thinking maybe am born for the unluck.

Regards Maikel
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Hi Guys,

I play a lot at Loyal Casino. Does someone have experience with this casino because i dont see any rating for it.
Honestly i had a lot of lost no matter what i did at the roulette table, just thinking maybe am born for the unluck.

Regards Maikel

Loyal Casino is the rebranded Oranje Casino. Operated by Corona Ltd, which is a subsidiary of Betsson Group.
 

cappync

King of the Crappy Bonus Round
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Location
Durham, NC
I just had the same thing happen to me at Uptown Aces. I broke the 10$ max bet there and they voided my win ($2500). I am not here to argue that what they did was wrong. I broke the rule and they are well within their right to void my winnings. Plain and simple.

That being said, I feel that adjustments should be made to the software to not allow players to make bets that violate the rule. The same way that the software blocks players from playing progressive jackpot games that would violate the terms of a bonus, the software should block players from making bets that violate the max bet.

To not have this safeguard in place seems kind of predatory, in my opinion. They are just waiting for you to hit the wrong button, play too fast, etc...

@Sloto
 
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Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
I just had the same thing happen to me at Uptown Aces. I broke the 10$ max bet there and they voided my win ($2500). I am not here to argue that what they did was wrong. I broke the rule and they are well within their right to void my winnings. Plain and simple.

That being said, I feel that adjustments should be made to the software to not allow players to make bets that violate the rule. The same way that the software blocks players from playing progressive jackpot games that would violate the terms of a bonus, the software should block players from making bets that violate the max bet.

To not have this safeguard in place seems kind of predatory, in my opinion. They are just waiting for you to hit the wrong button, play too fast, etc...

Agree!
There are sites that do this, i mean block you from making to large bets or play on slots restricted by the bonus. But it really should be mandatory for all sites.
 

irish-ranger

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
Agree!
There are sites that do this, i mean block you from making to large bets or play on slots restricted by the bonus. But it really should be mandatory for all sites.
For us U.K. players this is one of few rules left which they can screw is on oo and the accounts from the same address some casinos do have the means to pick up on this and will block attempts yet most don’t heres hoping the UKGC make these measures mandatory in the near future..
I suspect we are about to get a lot more complaints with punters having their balances wiped,with these Megaways which allow u to gambler..
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Location
London
They can get away with it at UKGC as its bonus funds your playing with not your cash, hence they can apply any rule they like. This won’t change anytime soon.
 

cappync

King of the Crappy Bonus Round
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Location
Durham, NC
I only am familiar with RTG games, but i noticed on the newer games there is now a "MAX BET" button. This is noticeably close to the spin button and can easily be pressed by mistake, especially on a small device like a phone.

Again... it just seems like the casino should be able to put a safeguard in place to prevent inadvertent bets which break the max bet rule... unless they WANT you to slip up. (Cue tinfoil hat)

117736
 

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
Seems they voided your whole gameplay with that bonus you were betting over limit in bonus terms and left your last deposit which was used to take that bonus to your account, so you still have your whole deposit there to play with.

That's quite common what many operators do when you breach max bet rule, void all gameplay and leave deposit on your account to play with.
I asked them for a detailed summary of how they got to the $920.17 they deducted. The reply I got back was a list of about 20 bets of $16.00 and $20.00 on 4 hand poker. The rule says any bet over $10.00 on any single game. I'm still arguing with them that 4 hand poker is not a single game but 4 separate games. A $20.00 bet on 4 hand poker is $5,00 per single game. If I win one out of four hands it doesn't pay me $20.00 times that winning hand it only pays me $5.00 times that winning hand. They can't seem to get that through their heads so I told them to speak to the game program engineers and ask them. Maybe they'll talk some sense into the support team.
 

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
I am currently disputing with a casino that says I broke the terms of their bonus rules. The rule says "no bet larger than $10.00 on any single game may be wagered" After they deducted $920.17 from my account I asked them for a detailed description on how the came up with this amount. They sent me approximately 20 bets of $16.00 and a few $20.00 bets on 4 hand poker. My dispute with them is that 4 hand poker is not a single game but 4 single games. A $20.00 bet doesn't pay me $20.00 times each winning hand it only pays me $5.00 times each winning hand. How can I make this clear to them?
 

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
Dale, I'm sorry to say that the casino is in the right here.
Why would you say they're right. In 4 hand poker you have the option to play any number of hands. If playing 4 hand Jacks or Better and you're betting $20.00, you win one hand with a pair of Jacks, even money. Does it pay you $20.00? Hell no. It pays you $5.00 So the wager of $20.00 is not on a single game it's on 4 individual single games.
 

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
Gonna go with Jas here; generaally max bet applies to any single round
That's the easy and non-confrontational way out by agreeing. I bet if it was your money they took you wouldn't be siding with Jas. Who says the casinos are always right? If you passively just let them get away with it they will always be right. But, just because they say so doesn't make it right., In mathematical equations it's impossible to figure as a single game and impossible to solve unless you factor in all four values. If you're dealt one face card on each hand and that's all you hold, when you redeal, all 4 cards on all four hands would have to be identical for it to be considered a single game but that's not what happens. Each hand gets 4 cards from a different deck. Playing two hands on the blackjack table would be closer to the definition of a "single game" because if you hit, all cards come from the same deck and effect the rest of the cards dealt out. However, that's considered 2 separate bets on a single game.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
That's the easy and non-confrontational way out by agreeing. I bet if it was your money they took you wouldn't be siding with Jas. Who says the casinos are always right? If you passively just let them get away with it they will always be right. But, just because they say so doesn't make it right., In mathematical equations it's impossible to figure as a single game and impossible to solve unless you factor in all four values. If you're dealt one face card on each hand and that's all you hold, when you redeal, all 4 cards on all four hands would have to be identical for it to be considered a single game but that's not what happens. Each hand gets 4 cards from a different deck. Playing two hands on the blackjack table would be closer to the definition of a "single game" because if you hit, all cards come from the same deck and effect the rest of the cards dealt out. However, that's considered 2 separate bets on a single game.
I'm as confrontational as anyone., circumstances pending.
I'm not familair with the casino nor the terms, but it (max bet) applies to slots as well.
I'm not going to argue the point - im sure there's others here more familiar; my opinion - and it's just that - is only on the face of the initial post.
 

daler49

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Location
USA
I'm as confrontational as anyone., circumstances pending.
I'm not familair with the casino nor the terms, but it (max bet) applies to slots as well.
I'm not going to argue the point - im sure there's others here more familiar; my opinion - and it's just that - is only on the face of the initial post.
I don't mean to be confrontational to you but trying to get a logical answer from Miami cashiers or support has been impossible. I told them to go to the game programmers and they would mathematically show them but they refuse to do it. The casinos are not always right and letting them win is the easy way out. I don't need the money I just want to clear the bonus wording so it doesn't happen to anyone else.
 

Fiekie247

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Location
South Africa
Playing two hands on the blackjack table would be closer to the definition of a "single game" because if you hit, all cards come from the same deck and effect the rest of the cards dealt out. However, that's considered 2 separate bets on a single game.

The fact remains when you wager - 'Max Bet' applies to a single round - Which means if you even played 2 hands on Black Jack during the single round - The single round has a Game ID that can reference to that specific 2 - 4 hands you played should there be any errors.

Now Max Bet applies here to the single round and not per individual hand. So which means that $20 bet is breaching the rule as you basically placed a $20 bet per Game ID even though you had 4 individual hands in the same ID - Hope that makes it easier to understand...
 
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Fiekie247

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Location
South Africa
Also I went to the Website, I cannot find anything related or mentioning the Max Bet rules... Just wagering and max cash out etc etc.
 

chiya

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Location
Earth
I asked them for a detailed summary of how they got to the $920.17 they deducted. The reply I got back was a list of about 20 bets of $16.00 and $20.00 on 4 hand poker. The rule says any bet over $10.00 on any single game. I'm still arguing with them that 4 hand poker is not a single game but 4 separate games. A $20.00 bet on 4 hand poker is $5,00 per single game. If I win one out of four hands it doesn't pay me $20.00 times that winning hand it only pays me $5.00 times that winning hand. They can't seem to get that through their heads so I told them to speak to the game program engineers and ask them. Maybe they'll talk some sense into the support team.

Arguing that is like arguing that if you play roulette and bet $9 on 10 different numbers, you didn't break the rules because it's 10 different chances.

No. It's still the total bet size for one round of game.

Sorry but you have no chances nor ground to stand on on this case.
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Location
EU
I don't mean to be confrontational to you but trying to get a logical answer from Miami cashiers or support has been impossible. I told them to go to the game programmers and they would mathematically show them but they refuse to do it. The casinos are not always right and letting them win is the easy way out. I don't need the money I just want to clear the bonus wording so it doesn't happen to anyone else.

The casinos are not always right but what is more important for you? Get paid or have some people in a forum say you are right?

Best way to get paid is to play at accredited casinos and always read the terms. If you have a question ask support. Obviously in this situation, if you knew the max bet term it must have crossed your mind that you may get in trouble. If it didn't, at least in the future it will. Better safe and paid, right?

Now, in this case, if getting paid is what is important for you, there is the PAB service

Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

I am not sure if it can help you in this case but it has already saved loads of money for many people over the years. In situation like yours, a polite genuine player that made a honest mistake and didn't get any advantage from it, if playing at an accredited casino, has a good chance to get paid (even if there was a breach of terms).
 
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