Resolved 32Red vs Joseph3 - expensive mistake

[vinylweatherman]

If you did you'd immediately see your cash balance was twice what you intended and you would contact CS and w/d the excess 1k before playing it. Unlike the OP. In other words YOU had the means to remedy your mistake. Exactly like 32red did when they realised, using a term they have to cover such an eventuality.

..and at the exact time as the player, when the CS agent noticed that after they had added the bonus, the balance was £3000, not £2000.

You are expecting the customer to know more than the company's own employee. This doesn't fly in a UK court. It's also why it is NOT stealing if you walk out the shop having been given too much change by mistake. There have been occasions that have shown it isn't stealing even if you have KNOWINGLY walked out of a shop benefitting from a mistake they have made. In the cases where an obvious pricing error has been made, such as an expensive item scanning through the till for 4p due to a programming error, and you take advantage because you have been tipped off, and manage to get past the checkout, pay, and leave the store, it's tough on the store, it's not stealing. It's happening all the time, there is a forum that has a whole section dedicated to sharing such store errors as they are spotted, yet there are no mass arrests for theft, and hardly any media coverage that it's even happening.

 

[spintee]

That was me @ post #34 (page 4).

The change thing is becoming less of a problem as people carry a debit card instead of cash.

Got to be carfull with that also, I have and alot of other people when serached that ASDA double charge on card, Yes you get back back only after about 5 days, Not all the time but happend more than once to me

 

[spintee]

Its a fourm, People like to chat and opions count, Who are telling people should stop? As long as the OP does not comment on the situation than whats stoping others talking? Im getting abit annoyed of people buting there nut in saying do not do this do not do that, If and when a meister asks to stop than yes, What right as any bugger else got telling us what to do, If you do not want to read than do not,
I sorry if sound rude but please peole stop telling others what to do

We should stop. Nothing more can be said here. We don't have all the facts, we can't have it all, and we (most of us) don't have the means to properly authenticate and evaluate them.

After the PAB, or court, or they come to a settlement, we can learn more, and we can continue.

Right now, the OP has more than enough info, has taken tons of advices. He mast act now!
We can wait untill he takes action, see the results, and then we have more info to go on.

 

[rena35]

OK let us go with the casino is like a store. If that is the way to view it then is it not correct that the customer is always right and if he bought something that was not right then he should not only get his money back but get a replacement for free?

 

[KasinoKing]

Just waiting until Monday for some advice on this, before I decide what to do.

If the advice you are waiting for is from your Solicitor - just remember he/she has a vested interest in you going to court...
It's also very unlikely they know anything about or understand the PAB service.

If I were in your shoes I would have already submitted my PAB 2 or 3 days ago (day 1 of this thread); you have nothing to lose by dong this and it will probably be a LOT quicker and 100% cheaper than going to court.

FWIW, if everything you have said is true (which seems very likely), my opinion is you should be paid your winnings in full.

KK

 

[orion]

I cannot play on 32red.com anymore since I am italian

But I have been playing there for years and always - I mean really always - their Service has been customer-friendly and often going beyond the rules to get customers (depositing players) happy.

I am extremely surprised with this situation and I believe there is something we don't know yet.

However, IF what the OP is saying is true and IF he is not missing / omitting any important detail we don't know yet, I think the casino should pay at least 66% of the 25k.

 

[citizenx]

I understand that speculation is bubbling over but still, isn't this what forums are all about?

I was thinking that. To describe the legitimate views of forum users as "farmyard slurry" is pretty offensive and entirely unnecessary and does not present a positive image of the person saying it.

As for prejudging the outcome and effectively calling the OP a thief, it makes me question the agenda of that poster. As a relatively recent "frequent" viewer/poster of these forums It hasn't filled me with confidence.

 

[nikantw]

Its a fourm, People like to chat and opions count, Who are telling people should stop? As long as the OP does not comment on the situation than whats stoping others talking? Im getting abit annoyed of people buting there nut in saying do not do this do not do that, If and when a meister asks to stop than yes, What right as any bugger else got telling us what to do, If you do not want to read than do not,
I sorry if sound rude but please peole stop telling others what to do

I am not telling you what to do. I am tellng you that words can hurt. And we must be carefull who we hurt and why. And try not to let others use as. What's wrong with that?

More relavent info as to what I mean can be found in CM forum and PAB rules.

 

[spintee]

I am not telling you what to do. I am tellng you that words can hurt. And we must be carefull who we hurt and why. And try not to let others use as. What's wrong with that?

More relavent info as to what I mean can be found in CM forum and PAB rules.

Fair dues but please note it wasnt a direct hit at you,
I have read the PAB rules and just about every thing else but Gaming has been good for me and thats probs as Im mostly lose but when I do get a win I have nether had a problem,
Only once with mr green when I had not had the relevance documents, (problem?) NO they could not of been more helpful and this was b4 they come on the scene, also revived money, In all my time gambling there was the best help ever and I was trying to get money out and not in,

I hate to see the day when I have to moan about problems, There has been a few minor hikups like yestoday when a £20 spin ment to be a 20p spin and wiped a 3rd of balance, & help stated nothing till monday? Thats why stick to the best,But I still deposit others as more luck but no feking help when needed

 

[Beravek7]

Just go to the court. There is no chance that the court will not support you. Don't seek any justice online. They will only insult you and call you a liar, a fraudster, someone who dared to win instead of following a "normal" for any gambling addict pattern- to lose, etc. My own experience proves that for 100%.

 

[chuchu59]

Just go to the court. There is no chance that the court will not support you. Don't seek any justice online. They will only insult you and call you a liar, a fraudster, someone who dared to win instead of "normal" for any gambling addict pattern- to lose, etc. My own experience proves that for 100%.

What kind of advice is that? Going gung-ho on extracting a payment from an online casino when seemingly there are dubious issues and where the player has not really favoured settlement through making a counter-offer. The court is likely to ask why both sides had not sought mediation. Isnt there mediation service in the UK? The player's case is not overly strong in my opinion and court action wastes everybody's time and money. Just get a qualified mediator and start the ball rolling.

Meanwhile, care to elaborate on what the insults were? Don't forget that the OP deliberately omitted the fact that he was offered $25k to start over with again, I agree the offer is overly harsh but shouldn't that be the starting point for negotiations? You are only fanning the flames.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just go to the court. There is no chance that the court will not support you. Don't seek any justice online. They will only insult you and call you a liar, a fraudster, someone who dared to win instead of following a "normal" for any gambling addict pattern- to lose, etc. My own experience proves that for 100%.

This is wrong. No one can be 100% certain of an outcome, as if they could, the courts would be empty as everyone would act on the certain outcome rather than be forced to with added solicitor fees on top.

What happens is that the legal teams of both parties get to put their arguments before a judge, panel of judges, maybe even a jury - depends on the nature and value of the case. When the arguments are over, the judge(s) will weigh up both arguments, and then decide the outcome based on the principle of "more probable", rather than an 100% absolute as seen in the criminal courts (guilty beyond reasonable doubt, rather than more likely to be guilty than innocent). Of course, contract law, and it's interpretation in a particular case, is what this is all about. Either side could find that it's own interpretation is the one that holds sway with the judge(s).

The solicitor said "strong case", not "guaranteed victory". Although they get paid more to take a case to court, they are also regulated, and have to consider their client's interests above their own, and should not steer the client towards unnecessary and expensive court action if there is an alternative. I am surprised therefore that the OPs solicitor didn't advise to at least try the formal adjudication service IBAS, and only go further if this didn't deliver.

 

[243 lines=daft]

It is very troubling how easily Joseph has been able to lead this forum by the nose to dance to his tune.

At a very early stage when asked if he was being completely honest he posted this

Those are the facts. Why would anyone assume otherwise?

Lets just assume those are the facts for now and if anyone finds out I lied later on then deal with it then.]

That alone sent my radars flying up.
It was then revealed that he had been made an offer by 32 red, but chose not to reveal this even when asked directly on the first two pages of the thread.
regardless of what anyone thinks of the offer itself, the idea of speculating purely on his side of the story should have been killed at that point.


By mentioning legal activity at an early stage in a careful noncommital way he ensured that it would be impossible for 32 Red to post on the forum,
thus allowing Joseph to rouse up mob anger, refuse to answer questions put to him, belittle the PAB process
and carefully hold back from PAB'ing to make sure he could mention court activity at periodic intervals.

has the forum been on the waccy baccy and simply forgotten Bryan's post after the Luckydahlia/BetAt affair of just afew weeks ago?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betat-casino-bonus-issue.63629/

That was a different case but the striking similarity was the ease with which a newish member using patently questionable tactics was able to turn members against a casino with proven credibility.

Based on what I have seen here, this guy is acting in a knowing, snakelike and manipulative way.
I am not saying I don't think Joseph should be paid, because I do not have all the facts. Neither do you guys.
We have Joseph's version of the facts but we already know him to be an 'unreliable witness' so this speculation frenzy is ludicrous,
especially as he has (intentionally imo) prevented 32 Red replying by mentioning court activity in a carefully noncommittal way at an early stage.

More seriously these threads (heavy in sh*tstirring and light in facts) are potentially damaging far more than some of you realise.
The repercussions of casinos like 32 Red and BetAt seeing the ease with which their own hard built reputations can be used against them on the forum could harm the value these casinos place on their relationship with the Casinomeister forum.

And if that happened we would all lose out.

 

[dunover]

What kind of advice is that? Going gung-ho on extracting a payment from an online casino when seemingly there are dubious issues and where the player has not really favoured settlement through making a counter-offer. The court is likely to ask why both sides had not sought mediation. Isnt there mediation service in the UK? The player's case is not overly strong in my opinion and court action wastes everybody's time and money. Just get a qualified mediator and start the ball rolling.

Meanwhile, care to elaborate on what the insults were? Don't forget that the OP deliberately omitted the fact that he was offered $25k to start over with again, I agree the offer is overly harsh but shouldn't that be the starting point for negotiations? You are only fanning the flames.

Indeed. Vinyl quotes tenets of basic UK consumer rights and seems to assume they'll all be automatically transposed to cases regarding online gaming which has its own QUANGO in the guise of the UKGC and is subject to different scrutiny outside the general protective bodies and laws which cover usual consumer affairs.
That is dangerous talk.
Yes, there is an independent mediation service in the UK called IBAS. There was a case on here recently where IBAS found in the plaintiff's favour (although the casino still didn't pay immediately IIRC.)
And of course, preceding that we have a recognized process in PAB which Bryan has offered (although it has subsequently been buried further back.) 32red WILL communicate to the OP via Max in the PAB process as that is part of the tenets of accreditation. One thing is for sure, they will not come on here doing it. Can you blame them? Remember the crap Igor at Bet-at went through recently when he came onto a thread to face the torches, pitchforks and flaming arrows??
I put the poll up hoping to take some of the sting out of this thread and reduce the pile-up of posts, but silly me.....

If any member on here really wants to help the chap then encourage him to use the PAB he's been offered. Then go and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

[Patrick123]

There is no obligation on the op to use any arbitration service let alone shill ones constructed by the betting community. Casinomeister is an affiliate site that offers to assist with player issues. It exists by money made from the gambling links it features. The most the player has to do is communicate with 32red and try to come to a resolution which IMO they have done. He's free to post on any medium to try and generate public interest and awareness of rogue behaviour. If it's untrue let 32red sue him for defamation. Personally I'd be tweeting and on Facebook as well.

 

[incrediblestuff]

It is very troubling..

Well Sir, you just posted the words right out of my hands, so to speak
Also in the second, in my opinion useless poll thread (no offense dunover) you posted pretty much my exact thoughts~!

I am of course biased as i am a huge 32Red-lover, however, looking at "the facts" so far i have only seen an incomplete story, but even that has lead me to doubt the player, as no one that i know, myself included would be depositing 1000,- with a bonus without knowing exactly what i was getting into...

If then the amount was either too little, or too much i would notify the chat immediately, in most Casinos that would be so i wouldn't get in any trouble later on, and in 32Red's case i would just jokingly say "hey, thanks for the extra 1000,- mate!" and probably get to keep some of it, if not all

I am still curious about how this will pan out, but i also am amazed how indeed so many players are seemingly automatically harsh on 32Red's case..

 

[aceking123]

sadly & this is a fact about UK & online gaming IT is still a very very grey area & i have been told from someone very high up in the chain , so going to court is the last one i would be picking for reasons as ive stated , lets see what the op wants to do )

 

[paul7388]

In reply to the PAB bit. I would imagine it will be more difficult now to PAB. 32RED refused the payout 5 weeks ago for their reasons. A PAB would probably have been a great idea 23pages back but now im not sure. I would imagine all this has damaged a PAB especially since OP still hasn't submitted one. If 32RED were to now go okay we will pay him the full amount it will then look like the OPs first post about getting " the mob " to force there hand has worked . Such a mess this and cant understand why OP hasn't PABed and if his solicitor (if he has one) is right about the strong case why come on here asking peoples advice. The solicitor gave you all the advice you need.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Indeed. Vinyl quotes tenets of basic UK consumer rights and seems to assume they'll all be automatically transposed to cases regarding online gaming which has its own QUANGO in the guise of the UKGC and is subject to different scrutiny outside the general protective bodies and laws which cover usual consumer affairs.
That is dangerous talk.
Yes, there is an independent mediation service in the UK called IBAS. There was a case on here recently where IBAS found in the plaintiff's favour (although the casino still didn't pay immediately IIRC.)
And of course, preceding that we have a recognized process in PAB which Bryan has offered (although it has subsequently been buried further back.) 32red WILL communicate to the OP via Max in the PAB process as that is part of the tenets of accreditation. One thing is for sure, they will not come on here doing it. Can you blame them? Remember the crap Igor at Bet-at went through recently when he came onto a thread to face the torches, pitchforks and flaming arrows??
I put the poll up hoping to take some of the sting out of this thread and reduce the pile-up of posts, but silly me.....

If any member on here really wants to help the chap then encourage him to use the PAB he's been offered. Then go and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

If it goes past the Quangos and enters the court system, then it's a level playing field, the law of the land will apply, not the rules set by a Quango.

The real irony is that it was OPERATORS that insisted on a change in the law of the land that made gambling debts enforceable in the courts. Had they not done this, the earlier "honour" system would still apply to gambling debts, and the OP would have no chance in the courts.

Some operators are of course not worth taking to court even if you are bound to win, as they will simply ignore the judgement and there would be little one could do about it. It's operators with a UK licence or premises that are worth taking to court, because they are much more likely to accept the judgement of the courts.

 

[maphesto]

Casinomeister is an affiliate site that offers to assist with player issues. It exists by money made from the gambling links it features.

IIRC it's advertising that makes this site exist as well. I think it's wise to mention that the PAB service is free to use even if you signed up through other affiliate sites.

I can't see how a submitted PAB can make things worse, I can only see a better chance for op to receive winnings.

 

[dunover]

In reply to the PAB bit. I would imagine it will be more difficult now to PAB. 32RED refused the payout 5 weeks ago for their reasons. A PAB would probably have been a great idea 23pages back but now im not sure. I would imagine all this has damaged a PAB especially since OP still hasn't submitted one. If 32RED were to now go okay we will pay him the full amount it will then look like the OPs first post about getting " the mob " to force there hand has worked . Such a mess this and cant understand why OP hasn't PABed and if his solicitor (if he has one) is right about the strong case why come on here asking peoples advice. The solicitor gave you all the advice you need.

If that were the case Bryan wouldn't have offered him that olive branch. The PAB hasn't been 'damaged' at all because the parties would only be supplying true and verifiable information to Max and all the flannel we have typed on here wouldn't even come into it; it is what it is - words.
I'd suggest the nearest the OP has been to a solicitor's is having a pee against their back wall on the way back from the pub one evening.

 

[wobble33]

A quick read of the "Big Bonus Offer" says many times in many places the max bonus was 100% for 1000 max deposit. That's how the OP should have known there was a problem with the 200% 2000 bonus put in his account.

The bonus could be taken by redeeming a coupon or by requesting the bonus from live chat. To my knowledge, whatever method the OP used is unknown as of yet.

Many times I have claimed the club rouge bonus via the homepage. it never loads right. I have gone on live chat, and the bonus was added manually. I have gone back to the casino, and low and behold the claim form worked, and I have now doubled my bonus.

back on live chat, told them I have now double the bonus, but they have told me a few times just to keep it.

my point here is, did he claim it by the homepage? it didn't load properly, so went on live chat, and they put the 1k in. then went back to the casino, and low and behold now the claim form did work, and another £1k added. or did he bypass the claim form, and go straight on live chat and get added £2k?

but imho the op should be paid. this obviously has nothing to do with betting over the max, multi accounting, or any other suss behaviour, or 32 red would not of even made an offer!

I keep hearing people on here saying we want the full story. this person has done nothing wrong imho, I can understand 32 reds frustration, I would not like to be the c/s agent if he did give 2k bonus we all make mistakes, so I hope punishment is not too harsh.

 

[bigjohn]

FTR, and in my own opinion, I don't feel the OP bears any fault for the error or for not detecting it but I don't think that equals entitlement either.

 

[citizenx]

...all the flannel we have typed on here wouldn't even come into it; it is what it is - words.

Then

I'd suggest the nearest the OP has been to a solicitor's is having a pee against their back wall on the way back from the pub one evening.

What makes your "words" and "flannel" better than other peoples "words" and "flannel"?

If you don't like this subject being discussed, may I respectfully suggest you lead by example.

 

[asadzareef89]

In my personal opinion 32red have had this issue for ages and they still haven't sorted it

When i first deposited there my bonus wasnt added automatically and i had to get it through live help and when live help added the bonus the automatic one kicked in as well

I guess i was a bit more aware of how much bonus i should have got and instantly told the live help about it and they removed the extra bonus

But in the end it wasn't my mistake and i could have played and probably won as well, I don't think it would have been my fault but sometimes dealing with casinos ''Honesty is the best policy''

The OP saying he didnt know how much bonus he should have got doesn't register with me as this is the first thing almost 99% of the people check when they join a casino barring 1% who refuse bonus at every casino but also i don't think this is his fault as he didn't cheat the casino but rather took advantage of their mistakes

So both of them have a genuine case but i think OP's case is stronger

 

[dunover]

Then



What makes your "words" and "flannel" better than other peoples "words" and "flannel"?

If you don't like this subject being discussed, may I respectfully suggest you lead by example.

Nothing. Learn to read properly. When you do, come back and re-read the sentence, focussing on the word 'we' which is collective and has been used to include all of us that have commented. Had I wished to separate myself from the flannel' adjective I would have typed 'you' instead. If you want to flame or troll go elsewhere.

 

[citizenx]

Nothing. Learn to read properly. When you do, come back and re-read the sentence, focussing on the word 'we' which is collective and has been used to include all of us that have commented. Had I wished to separate myself from the flannel' adjective I would have typed 'you' instead. If you want to flame or troll go elsewhere.

I neither wish to flame or troll but I'll spell it out: I think your attitude stinks.

You have prejudged an individual and are trying to demand others do not express their legitimate opinions. You strike me as a type of bully and I have no time nor respect for it.

 

[miksaxxx]

yep

OP still getted bonus money, not real and if he wagered it correct. I think he has very strong case.

If it have been cashback it would be different. Then 32 red could straight voided winnings. But this was still BONUS money.

 

[dunover]

I neither wish to flame or troll but I'll spell it out: I think your attitude stinks.

You have prejudged an individual and are trying to demand others do not express their legitimate opinions. You strike me as a type of bully and I have no time nor respect for it.

Really?
Again you clearly have failed to see the whole picture and read the whole thread. I have seen others accuse the OP of being less than honest and doubting his story maybe with some justification. I haven't, and haven't pre-judged him. I have taken the facts presented at face value and indeed intimated that I personally feel based on those facts he is deserving of more than a 25k x30 WR bonus. To that end, I have recommended he ignore the barrack-room lawyers and take the professional and no-risk PAB service he has been offered. From experience I know that's in his best interests.
The outcome for him will not be based on opinions, mine nor others'. They will not help him; subsequent action he takes will decide the situation. To that end yes, I have tried to discourage posters from inciting him into a knee-jerk and very costly legal saga which would likely leave him far more disadvantaged than at present along with feeling even worse about the issue. Obviously the way I have gone about it has offended you. Maybe you could come up with your idea of a strategy for the OP, rather than starting petty arguments augmented with insults. That's of course if you really do have the OP's interests at heart.

 

[SpinUk]

In my personal opinion 32red have had this issue for ages and they still haven't sorted it

When i first deposited there my bonus wasnt added automatically and i had to get it through live help and when live help added the bonus the automatic one kicked in as well

I guess i was a bit more aware of how much bonus i should have got and instantly told the live help about it and they removed the extra bonus

But in the end it wasn't my mistake and i could have played and probably won as well, I don't think it would have been my fault but sometimes dealing with casinos ''Honesty is the best policy''

The OP saying he didnt know how much bonus he should have got doesn't register with me as this is the first thing almost 99% of the people check when they join a casino barring 1% who refuse bonus at every casino but also i don't think this is his fault as he didn't cheat the casino but rather took advantage of their mistakes

So both of them have a genuine case but i think OP's case is stronger

As has been pointed out, the extra £1k awarded in fact makes it proportionally HARDER for the OP to make wagering. So it could be argued that this "mistake" works in favour of 32both ways - he's less likely to cash out but even if he does you sting him for the win

Now, if I was playing Devil's Advocate it could be argued that such mistakes could be encouraged, particulary as a few of these "mistakes" could easily fund the cash outs of a dozen daily cashouts of "bread and butter " players.

Still, as we know, Red32 are "great guys" who run a tight upfront operation, albeit in a tax haven with a self funded, historically proven toothless regulator with no current realistic legal recourse to disgruntled players, so of course this would not be the case.

 

[silcnlayc]

In my personal opinion 32red have had this issue for ages and they still haven't sorted it

When i first deposited there my bonus wasnt added automatically and i had to get it through live help and when live help added the bonus the automatic one kicked in as well

I guess i was a bit more aware of how much bonus i should have got and instantly told the live help about it and they removed the extra bonus

But in the end it wasn't my mistake and i could have played and probably won as well, I don't think it would have been my fault but sometimes dealing with casinos ''Honesty is the best policy''

The OP saying he didn't know how much bonus he should have got doesn't register with me as this is the first thing almost 99% of the people check when they join a casino barring 1% who refuse bonus at every casino but also i don't think this is his fault as he didn't cheat the casino but rather took advantage of their mistakes

So both of them have a genuine case but i think OP's case is stronger

I agree totally. I know what my bonus is supposed to be just as anyone else knows when depositing. When dealing with online casinos, it is ALWAYS best to follow the straight an narrow when playing with a bonus. Any other way is a recipe for disaster and always a way for a casino to void winnings. You said it exactly as it should be "Honesty is the best policy". If the casino chat stated he could keep it, after reporting the error, then all is well.

If he did not report the error, the onus is on the player at any casino (including land based casinos, (that state any found chip belongs to the casino) since the R&R's clearly state if an error is made, then all bets are off. (simple condensed metaphor)

I have been bitten once and only once (for playing wrong game) and I know as a seasoned player, we all try to be as careful as possible. Playing with funds that were not legit, is a way to lose any winnings. We all KNOW this. This bonus was not a legitimate bonus and the OP had to know this and should have had it clarified in writing whether he could have kept it or not, before playing.

Benefit of doubt does not play at online casinos. You do not do the right thing, you do not get to keep the win as we all are well aware of. JMHO.

.

 

[asadzareef89]

As has been pointed out, the extra £1k awarded in fact makes it proportionally HARDER for the OP to make wagering. So it could be argued that this "mistake" works in favour of 32both ways - he's less likely to cash out but even if he does you sting him for the win

Now, if I was playing Devil's Advocate it could be argued that such mistakes could be encouraged, particulary as a few of these "mistakes" could easily fund the cash outs of a dozen daily cashouts of "bread and butter " players.

Still, as we know, Red32 are "great guys" who run a tight upfront operation, albeit in a tax haven with a self funded, historically proven toothless regulator with no current realistic legal recourse to disgruntled players, so of course this would not be the case.

Just to be sure i didn't mean a court case, what i meant was that mistake was made from both sides n both had a strong case in saying their opinion is right but OP should b given benefit of the doubt.

I agree with u that they should sort out their own mistakes and if they can't take the fall for it, but i don't agree with the OP saying he didnt know the error had been made as most players who take welcome bonuses always check what they would get before depositing

 

[243 lines=daft]

The question that we should surely be asking is 'Why is this player not lodging a PAB'?

Even if taking the one sided version of events we have here at face value, it makes no sense not to use this resource.
The player has certainly been on the forum during the day, and Bryan has made it clear that he is eligible to file a PAB.

We as a community use Casinomeister for different things. Some like to post screenshots, some like to chat about new slots,
some like to run dumb ass competitions about what slots people like. (er hang on..)

But the two engines that drive this place are the accreditation engine and the mediation engine.
They are what separate this place from other gambling forums, and give it its authority. And a credibilty based on proven results.

It's in the interests of the community to see the mediation engine tested here.
It is certainly in the interests of the player, even if he is so set on his own agenda that he doesn't see that.

So surely we should leave off on the conjecture and speculation, and simply urge this guy to PAB.

 

[Beravek7]

What I say is that OP should try his luck at the court. I agree- nothing is guaranteed- but his chances to win are still very high. Forget about any online "mediators". All those mediators are paid by the casinos. They depend on them! Can you expect them to be neutral? Never ever. The judge in the court is not paid by online casinos. That makes the difference.

 

[Jasminebed]

I would strongly encourage the OP to PAB.

The Pitch-a-Bitch service is not binding arbitration, where both parties agree to abide by the decision of the arbitrator. They do however agree to a full investigation of the facts.

It will not preclude Joseph from taking court action if he is unhappy with the resolution proposed.

It can't force 32Red to pay either, if Maxd decides the player is entitled to full payment, or payment minus $1000 erroneous bonus credited. 32Red CAN lose its accredited status however, something I doubt they would choose to do for a mere 25K.

There are not many solicitors experienced in online gambling cases, and I'd hazard a guess that 32Red is more likely to have such solicitors at their disposal than the OP, regardless of what advice he has been given. There are perhaps even fewer judges experienced in it.

A 200% SUB is not unheard of in this industry, so I don't think the OP should be automatically supposed to know. And even if he did... Did he need to inform the casino of THEIR mistake?

I know in my example of a BJ table at a B&M, when I was overpaid on a winning hand, another player informed me I didn't have to correct the dealer, and the dealer confirmed this and thanked me profusely.

I strongly suspect that in some way the player's play skirted the lines of "advantage play". But if he broke no rules, the extra bonus combined with a very small bet limit (less than 1% of bankroll) was a hindrance rather than a true advantage.

I have had no opportunity to read the terms for the high-roller bonus, I am restricted from viewing it. I can't truly see where the general terms allow for a error on the casino's side, not a software malfunction.

Maxd will however has access to all of that, and the chat transcript.

Joseph, to PAB will not limit your ability to pursue other avenues of redress. It will cost you nothing but time.

 

[Beravek7]

The question that we should surely be asking is 'Why is this player not lodging a PAB'?

Even if taking the one sided version of events we have here at face value, it makes no sense not to use this resource.
The player has certainly been on the forum during the day, and Bryan has made it clear that he is eligible to file a PAB.

We as a community use Casinomeister for different things. Some like to post screenshots, some like to chat about new slots,
some like to run dumb ass competitions about what slots people like. (er hang on..)

But the two engines that drive this place are the accreditation engine and the mediation engine.
That's what separates this place from other gambling forums, and gives it its authority. And a credibilty based on proven results.

It's in the interests of the community to see the mediation engine tested here.
It is certainly in the interests of the player, even if he is so set on his own agenda that he doesn't see that.

So surely we should leave off on the conjecture and speculation, and simply urge this guy to PAB.

I personally urge this guy NOT to PAB! If you ask me why- just read my own thread involving Fortune Lounge.

 

[Patrick123]

IIRC it's advertising that makes this site exist as well. I think it's wise to mention that the PAB service is free to use even if you signed up through other affiliate sites.

I can't see how a submitted PAB can make things worse, I can only see a better chance for op to receive winnings.

Guess the advertisements aren't gambling links then....

 

[rena35]

The casino is allowed to make mistakes but we deposit our money and can make none plus we have to make sure the casino has not made a mistake and if they do then we get burned for it I am done commenting on this. I hope the OP gets paid one way or the other.

 

[Beravek7]

Let's remember one more time what the LUCK thing is all about. It is a law of physics (or the God's will). Let's imagine a crowd of 50.000 people. And lets imagine somebody throwing a small stone into this crowd. Of 50.000 people- there is only one who will get this stone. That one is a lucky SOB (or the one loved by the God himself). What happens in this specific scenario is that 32red casino (the one who throws the stone) claims that the stone thrown was not the one they intended to throw. And so they want to void the physical laws, they want to void the God's will and want to keep all that luck all to themselves.
That is a clear case of thievery and those who do it may one day easily find themselves burning in the hell. (Excuse me for my primitive English- I hope you understand me)

 

[Gaz237]

I personally urge this guy NOT to PAB! If you ask me why- just read my own thread involving Fortune Lounge.

Have you got a link to it please.

 

[Beravek7]

Have you got a link to it please.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/beravek7-vs-fortune-room.61306/?t=61306

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Personally think if the casino were to offer some compromise of partial payment and part bonus, it's a fair deal.

As I said in the poll thread, you can't play a game or win money with credits you wouldn't or shouldn't have, however I'm not unsympathetic, and can understand how it must feel going from the ecstasy of having a great win to being told there was an error, you have won nothing.

Hence my thoughts on the compromise.

I still find it hard to believe a player wouldn't work out/check his starting balance after claiming a bonus, I work out what my starting balance will be even before depositing. Not that I'm calling him dishonest. Think meeting on some sort of middle ground would be fair, would be generous to the op and wouldn't do 32Red no harm.

 

[Beravek7]

Personally think if the casino were to offer some compromise of partial payment and part bonus, it's a fair deal.

As I said in the poll thread, you can't play a game or win money with credits you wouldn't or shouldn't have, however I'm not unsympathetic, and can understand how it must feel going from the ecstasy of having a great win to being told there was an error, you have won nothing.

Hence my thoughts on the compromise.

I still find it hard to believe a player wouldn't work out/check his starting balance after claiming a bonus, I work out what my starting balance will be even before depositing. Not that I'm calling him dishonest. Think meeting on some sort of middle ground would be fair, would be generous to the op and wouldn't do 32Red no harm.

No middle ground. The maximum 32red can take back from this player is 1000 pounds bonus they gave him "by mistake".

 

[suzecat]

If interested, check out the "Big Bankroll Bonus" offer for yourself:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The OP said he noticed the bonus he received for his 1000 deposit was 200% (2000), not 100% (1000) as shown in the offer. Further, OP just figured 32Red gave him 200% because that was what 32Red wanted to give him.

OP began play with the 2000 bonus even though it would have been easy to go on chat to verify the 200% bonus he received was correct.

Is there any question in your mind that this bonus was 100% up to 1000? If you received twice the bonus you were expecting would you check it out before you began play?

IMO this is the crux of this dispute which basically boils down to honesty vs greed. Just my take.

Jazzy, those were the terms

I would strongly encourage the OP to PAB.

The Pitch-a-Bitch service is not binding arbitration, where both parties agree to abide by the decision of the arbitrator. They do however agree to a full investigation of the facts.

It will not preclude Joseph from taking court action if he is unhappy with the resolution proposed.

It can't force 32Red to pay either, if Maxd decides the player is entitled to full payment, or payment minus $1000 erroneous bonus credited. 32Red CAN lose its accredited status however, something I doubt they would choose to do for a mere 25K.

There are not many solicitors experienced in online gambling cases, and I'd hazard a guess that 32Red is more likely to have such solicitors at their disposal than the OP, regardless of what advice he has been given. There are perhaps even fewer judges experienced in it.

A 200% SUB is not unheard of in this industry, so I don't think the OP should be automatically supposed to know. And even if he did... Did he need to inform the casino of THEIR mistake?

I know in my example of a BJ table at a B&M, when I was overpaid on a winning hand, another player informed me I didn't have to correct the dealer, and the dealer confirmed this and thanked me profusely.

I strongly suspect that in some way the player's play skirted the lines of "advantage play". But if he broke no rules, the extra bonus combined with a very small bet limit (less than 1% of bankroll) was a hindrance rather than a true advantage.

I have had no opportunity to read the terms for the high-roller bonus, I am restricted from viewing it. I can't truly see where the general terms allow for a error on the casino's side, not a software malfunction.

Maxd will however has access to all of that, and the chat transcript.

Joseph, to PAB will not limit your ability to pursue other avenues of redress. It will cost you nothing but time.

 

[paul7388]

Interesting I just read the terms and theres not a single mention of what would happen if wrong bonus amount is added tho it specifically says that max is £1000. Never noticed this bit before as it would void my winnings on some casinos as ive played santas wild ride and don't understand why that's a disallowed game 5.The following games are excluded from this Big Bankroll Welcome Bonus; Mega Spin Slots, Cashapillar, Loaded, Sure Win, Wealth Spa, Scrooge, Santa's Wild Ride, Crocodopolis, Doctor Love, Ramesses Riches, Irish Eyes. Any winnings from these games while the Slots Welcome Bonus is in play will be forfeited together with the Bonus funds themselves

 

[chayton]

In my personal opinion 32red have had this issue for ages and they still haven't sorted it

When i first deposited there my bonus wasnt added automatically and i had to get it through live help and when live help added the bonus the automatic one kicked in as well

hmmm that's interesting. Just out of curiousity, did they both kick in at the same time? Like boom suddenly both bonuses are in your balance? Or was it like the rep added one and your balance went up and then a minute or so later it went up again?

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

No middle ground. The maximum 32red can take back from this player is 1000 pounds bonus they gave him "by mistake".

Not if there are 24,000 other big ones at stake here, 24,000 big ones won with money he didn't have, that weren't his.

That money wasn't his to play with, just like a few months back when 32Red sent me a duplicated withdrawal of £200, I was sent £400 instead by accident, that £200 wasn't mine to spend.

 

[Joseph3]

Not if there are 24,000 other big ones at stake here, 24,000 big ones won with money he didn't have, that weren't his.

That money wasn't his to play with, just like a few months back when 32Red sent me a duplicated withdrawal of £200, I was sent £400 instead by accident, that £200 wasn't mine to spend.

But if you honestly didn't notice the £200 was in there, placed a bet with it and won, would 32Red be entitled to your bet winnings also? No, just the £200. You wouldn't have won that bet without their £200... I am willing to give them their £1000 back.

Like paul7388 said, there is nothing specific in the terms that say anything about this scenario, so I am unsure why people are saying they are covered by their terms.

I have emailed 32Red for the chat history. I am pretty sure nothing about the bonus amount was mentioned, they popped up, said I could get a great bonus if I deposited £1000, so I deposited £1000, they said the bonus had been credited and then I started with £3000. Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

 

[Mouche12]

But if you honestly didn't notice the £200 was in there, placed a bet with it and won, would 32Red be entitled to your bet winnings also? No, just the £200. You wouldn't have won that bet without their £200... I am willing to give them their £1000 back.

Like paul7388 said, there is nothing specific in the terms that say anything about this scenario, so I am unsure why people are saying they are covered by their terms.

I have emailed 32Red for the chat history. I am pretty sure nothing about the bonus amount was mentioned, they popped up, said I could get a great bonus if I deposited £1000, so I deposited £1000, they said the bonus had been credited and then I started with £3000. Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

Are you going to lodge a PAB, or has it already been lodged? I wish you all the best recovering your winnings!

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

But if you honestly didn't notice the £200 was in there, placed a bet with it and won, would 32Red be entitled to your bet winnings also? No, just the £200. You wouldn't have won that bet without their £200... I am willing to give them their £1000 back.

Like paul7388 said, there is nothing specific in the terms that say anything about this scenario, so I am unsure why people are saying they are covered by their terms.

I have emailed 32Red for the chat history. I am pretty sure nothing about the bonus amount was mentioned, they popped up, said I could get a great bonus if I deposited £1000, so I deposited £1000, they said the bonus had been credited and then I started with £3000. Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

With all due respect, you're bound to tell us you didn't notice, the whole point in taking a bonus is to give yourself a bigger starting balance to have a better chance of getting that big win. So who deposits, intending to take a bonus without working out what their starting balance will be beforehand?

You "haven't noticed an extra £1000" in your starting balance, you haven't noticed an email with an offer from 32Red either, the fact I said a compromise would be fair was me in part saying they should probably give you the benefit of the doubt. We see a lot of dubious stories/1 sided accounts here as you can probably imagine. I get that you're frustrated, as I would be, but as I said, I always check my starting balance so this problem would never arise.

There may be nothing in their terms covering this particular event, but it comes down to honesty doesn't it? Nobody can prove if you noticed or didn't, but things are getting quite ridiculous if casino's now have to include a term that says players must check their starting balance prior to playing - or something along the lines of.