Resolved 32Red vs Joseph3 - expensive mistake

[jetset]

If I were putting a thousand pounds into an online casino with which I was not familiar I think I would spend more time than usual checking the T&Cs - especially on bonuses - and general due diligence, so, yes, I believe more information might be forthcoming here.

Has the OP submitted a PAB? I get a sense from the OP's comments thus far that he is trying to apply pressure by repeatedly threatening court action, when the more immediate and cheaper course of a PAB is open to him.

All of that said, if the facts as outlined by the OP here are honestly and fully disclosed, it is disturbing to think that such a reputable operation as 32Red would expect a punter to take the heat for a company error.

That doesn't sound like 32Red at all to me.

But let us first see (a) if a PAB is submitted and (b) what Max adduces from a discussion with 32Red management...we've been whipped up in the past by spurious claims.

 

[catapultaudio]

I'm guessing thats really the crux of this case, is it reasonable for the OP to claim ignorance considering that it is stated on every page regarding the 'big bankroll bonus' that the maximum bonus is £1,000 chips (

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)

Personally I would guess anybody depositing £1,000 would have read those terms quite thoroughly, but then again OP is saying that his initial conversation with live chat led him to believe he was being granted a £2,000 high roller bonus, so depending on the content of that chat, he might reasonably believe it was not the exact 'big bankroll bonus' described on that page which he was receiving.

Whether he is hiding something or not, and OPs poor choice of words not withstanding, the actions of so many chancers and fraudsters in this past has given many of the loyal membership here an overly suspicious view of any newcomer with a problem with an accredited casino, I guess OP was just saying, shouldn't he be treated as innocent until proven guilty? If your view is "HE MUST BE LYING", then wouldn't it be better to wait until Mark has (hopefully) said his piece here before making the guy feel unwelcome?

 

[chayton]

If the casino mistakenly gave a bonus in excess of what the player was entitled to (with no hanky panky from the player's side to cause that error) AND the player made all the additional playthrough on that extra thousand bucks too (without breaking any terms) AND they only dipped into the excess funds by about $5....I'd be inclined to side with the player in this case. Of course that's only if the OP is telling the whole truth.

32Red has a great reputation and I can't see them screwing over a player, and I also can't see them making a mistake like that and not owning it, so I have a feeling there might be more to the story too.

Personally I think the player should PAB and then Max can sort it.

@ the OP - read the PAB FAQ here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

Do your PAB here: Link Outdated / Removed

 

[maxd]

Has the OP submitted a PAB? I get a sense from the OP's comments thus far that he is trying to apply pressure by repeatedly threatening court action ....

No PAB as yet, and I have the same understanding of the OP's intentions.

@ Joseph3 : as I read it you are in violation of the Posting Rules on at least two counts:

• 1.11 - Please do not exploit this board to promote your own personal agenda.
• 1.17 - Exploiting Your Membership.

The point is that using our forums to drum up "mob justice" is not cool.

32Red is an Accredited casino and as such we have a well-established procedure for handling such cases, namely the Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) process which I STRONGLY encourage you to look into immediately.
The PAB process begins here: Link Outdated / Removed (see the navigation bar on the left of that page)
Please ensure that you have read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ before proceeding.

If you have any questions or concerns we'd be happy to help.

Regards,
Max Drayman, Complaints (Pitch-A-Bitch) Manager, Casinomeister.com

 

[Balthazar]

That £24,938 might be a year of wages for the live chat rep

Does 32Red have their own CSR's or it's outsourced crap like many others?

 

[miksaxxx]

this is it.

-Player make litle mistake : winnings voided.

-Player make big mistake : winnings voided.

Casino makes any mistake: winnings voided or slot mailfunction. OP case is not for sure, when rep havent been open the case in casinos side.

Which casino is not doing this? When player have rights?

 

[maxd]

Far as i know it's their own people, at least that was the case last time the issue came up.

 

[paul7388]

Oh good here we go again. Another case of how a great casino is wrong before we even hear from them. The OPs first post calls for mob justice to make them pay. Now whether he has a genuine case or not its certainly the wrong way to go about it. If indeed the OP is planning court action all this posting will hardly help his case and im guessing this must have happened a while ago. If he intends court action and is sure he will win why the hell is he signing up to forums to slate the casino and call for members to basically force the casino to pay. Hope people give 32RED at least a chance to answer before making the minds up yet again that the OP has suffered a svevere injustice with no proof to back it.

 

[suzecat]

This thread reminds me of the times I witnessed a cashier giving too much change to a customer. You really wish the customer would say to the cashier, "hey you gave me too much change." Gratefully the cashier sorts out the correct money and onlookers witness a fellow human being DOING THE RIGHT THING. Seems that did not happen here. Too bad as the OP had a chance to do the right thing.

Furthering the insult to 32Red, the OP comes on Casinomeister to garner support for his bad behavior and remind us that he is confident UK judges will rule in his favor. Seems vastly premature to be thinking the matter needs court inference, That makes me believe the OP is not as sure of his position as we have been led to believe.

Hopefully Casinomeister and maxd can get to the bottom of this. Again I admit to being a born skeptic who will accept with glee whatever truth is uncovered.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Toughie, part of me thinks the op should be paid as it wasn't his mistake. But then the other part of me thinks it comes down to honesty, the £1000 extra bonus should have been given back prior to playing. I always make sure I have the correct amount before that first spin.

You say you didn't know they had made a mistake, or how much of a bonus you should have been credited, but I'm willing to bet had they credited less than the amount you were entitled to, you'd have noticed in pretty sharp fashion and been straight onto live chat.

 

[Respin_Ftw]

If what OP says is correct i would be furious. Why should the customer suffer cause a CS fucked up?

Then again, there can be more to this story! If not, shame on you 32red.

 

[Volatile]

How did the OP know it wasn't a %300 bonus and just accepted the $2000.

I know I'm reaching.


How did the CS rep not notice. New? or not many clients accept the high roller bonus?

 

[chayton]

How did the OP know it wasn't a %300 bonus and just accepted the $2000.

You mean 200%

 

[Joseph3]

If you are telling the truth, that to me is a VERY strange/stupid choice of words. Why on earth say something that could be interpreted as an admission that you have lied?

I was replying to chuchu59's comments that I may not be telling the truth.

If you didn't know it was incorrect, it was because YOU did not do your due diligence.

Let me guess, if the person in live chat had mistakenly given you £500 in bonus money instead, you would have just assumed that was "what you were meant to get"? Please. I find that really hard to believe. You don't just stick a grand into a casino without doing your homework. That's just crazy.

I'm sorry, but I am FAR from convinced that are you telling the whole story here.

As I said, every casino seems to give a different bonus amount. Obviously if a casino credited me an amount much less than standard, I might be inclined to ask some questions. 200% seems a pretty standard sign up bonus amount. If you are given a bonus you are happy with, why would I do any 'due dilligence' to make sure they hadn't made an 'error'. It's pretty standard human behaviour.

Also, If I had deposited an amount outside 'normal' deposits, say £30,000, would 32Red be asking me if I had deposited the correct amount? No, they wouldn't assume I had made a mistake, nor should they. And I certainly wouldn't be entitled to ask for my money back had I lost.

 

[Joseph3]

No PAB as yet, and I have the same understanding of the OP's intentions.

@ Joseph3 : as I read it you are in violation of the Posting Rules on at least two counts:

• 1.11 - Please do not exploit this board to promote your own personal agenda.
• 1.17 - Exploiting Your Membership.

The point is that using our forums to drum up "mob justice" is not cool.

32Red is an Accredited casino and as such we have a well-established procedure for handling such cases, namely the Pitch-A-Bitch (PAB) process which I STRONGLY encourage you to look into immediately.
The PAB process begins here: Link Outdated / Removed (see the navigation bar on the left of that page)
Please ensure that you have read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ before proceeding.

If you have any questions or concerns we'd be happy to help.

Regards,
Max Drayman, Complaints (Pitch-A-Bitch) Manager, Casinomeister.com

Ah, sort of have broke that first rule, sorry.
I see other complaints in the forum and thought it would be ok.
To be honest, I just want the general consensus of casino players as to whether or not 32Red are acting fairly here. I've asked friends and family, who obviously side with me, but they don't gamble online.

Regarding leaving information out, here are all of 32Red's emails. The one and only issue is that they credited me £1000 extra in error, which I won with.

I am contacting you in regards to your newly open 32Red account Josephmax44.

A standard check to verify your recent withdrawal request of £24,938 has brought to light an anomaly for the amount of bonus credited to your account when claiming the “100% New Player Big Bank Role Bonus”. This particular bonus is capped at 1000 bonus chips as a maximum as highlighted by point 2 of the terms and conditions. In this case, the maximum available funds to play with is 2000 chips and not the 3000 chips you commenced with.

On review of Gaming activity I can confirm that there was a point during play where the balance decreased to below 1000 chips. At this point you had not met the 30 times wagering requirement of the bonus.

In principle this means that at this point you were playing with funds that were not due. It is with deep regret to see that the subsequent withdrawal request for the above amount came from these invalid funds. In short, I am afraid to say that the pending withdrawal will not be processed by our payments team and these funds will be removed.

As an exception the initial deposit will be re-credited to your account in due course once you have confirmed if you still wish to claim the same bonus for the correct amount of 1000 chips or simply have the £1000 applied to the balance.


Regardless of any mistake on our part, the fact remains that you have used invalid funds to acquire these winnings. In principle the funds you deposited and a valid bonus award of 1000 chips were wagered and lost in the Casino. I am surprised that you did not realise that the bonus amount was incorrect as you have deposited a significant amount of money to claim a very specific bonus. I can see that the bonus terms and conditions link was given to you for your information which I trust you had read as agreed to on live chat.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Joseph I can only reiterate that the maximum bonus claim is 1000 and anything over this is deemed as invalid. Ultimately this has led to the decision made and the offer of £1000 (your initial deposit) is the best offer on the table, bearing in mind that these funds had been played and lost.


Once again we can only re-iterate what has already been stated, the bonus funds should not have been issued and regardless of this being an error it is these funds that were used to accrue the winnings and are therefore invalid funds.

Funds deposited and a valid bonus awarded of 1000 chips were wagered and lost in the Casino. Terms and conditions of the bonus were given over chat.



Our stance on the issue remains and as stated on the previous email regardless of the deposited funds being played and lost we will refund your original deposit but nothing more.

 

[maphesto]

@op

Please PAB! Don't post more about it until that PAB is settled.

 

[fun4all]

Joseph if you want to be fully open could you please explain how you managed to win near £25,000 playing £5 a go. I have NEVER won near 5000x bet and ive only seen such wins on progressive jackpots or 5 reel wild desire levels of things? Gotta admit I am curious what paid out so much

What game and stake were you playing and what did you hit?

 

[paul7388]

Okay from reading your last post it does seem unfair if they credit a bonus to high as its there mistake. But also the matter that there terms clearly state what correct amount is so you should have read them and known. I would PAB and see how it goes which means no more commenting as you have done enough damage already by appearing to use the members here to try and force 32reds hand. As for court I feel that will cost you money and you would lose as the casino has the terms which have clearly been broke so court would have to rule in there favour. Its like going into a bookies and asking for a price on an event . If the cashier quotes you 30/1 instead of 3/1 and you go to collect the bookie can refuse to pay as the price you got was quoted in error. Unfair but yet again they have the rules set in stone to protect them. Its a case of casinos good will whether you get paid or not but you haven't exactly started here on best note.

 

[dicky wink]

My concern

The thing that always concerns me with these type of complaints ( casino error ) is they only come to light when someone wins

If the OP had lost all his deposit and his (200%) bonus ... would the casino have highlighted an error to him and refunded his original deposit

My personal guess is " most likely not "

@ OP please use the PAB process here and follow the forum guidelines and i wish you all the best

Dr Wink

 

[Casinomeister]

Does 32Red have their own CSR's or it's outsourced crap like many others?

Their customer support is in-house like all casinos listed in the Accred section. In fact, 32red is one of the rare casinos where their CEO will occasionally man the phones.

 

[Joseph3]

Okay from reading your last post it does seem unfair if they credit a bonus to high as its there mistake. But also the matter that there terms clearly state what correct amount is so you should have read them and known. I would PAB and see how it goes which means no more commenting as you have done enough damage already by appearing to use the members here to try and force 32reds hand. As for court I feel that will cost you money and you would lose as the casino has the terms which have clearly been broke so court would have to rule in there favour. Its like going into a bookies and asking for a price on an event . If the cashier quotes you 30/1 instead of 3/1 and you go to collect the bookie can refuse to pay as the price you got was quoted in error. Unfair but yet again they have the rules set in stone to protect them. Its a case of casinos good will whether you get paid or not but you haven't exactly started here on best note.

Incorrect.
It depends on the scale of the error. If it's a clear mistake like the one you quoted, then fair enough, it should have been noticed by the punter. If, on the other hand you are given a bonus which is within the normal parameters of the industry, then I would have no reason to believe it was an error. Remember there was also a 'wagering requirement' for the 'extra' £1000, which I completed.

Also, what term have I broken? '32Red's decision is final'? This isn't going to hold up in front of a judge.

 

[mysino]

Lets hope 32red step up and take care of this.
I will be staying with jetbull and guts as there not looking good here.

 

[maxd]

Ah, sort of have broke that first rule, sorry. ... I just want the general consensus of casino players ....

Apology not accepted since you are continuing to violate the Posting Rules.

I repeat, please file your PAB ASAP and we'll look into this for you. If you do not then we'll have to deal with this as a continued Rules violation and your campaign against the casino will almost certainly be shut down.

 

[funnymunny]

Joseph if you want to be fully open could you please explain how you managed to win near £25,000 playing £5 a go. I have NEVER won near 5000x bet and ive only seen such wins on progressive jackpots or 5 reel wild desire levels of things? Gotta admit I am curious what paid out so much

What game and stake were you playing and what did you hit?

If the OP is going to PAB, he cannot (should not) reply to your post.

I dare say the OP was frustrated with the situation when making the first posts on this matter (hence their less than idea choice of words). As others have pointed-out, taking anyone to court before exploring other opportunities does seem to be a curious move to me though & I'd suggest many lawyers would say you have a good case (as they will be the ones to profit from any legal action & regardless of whether or not you're successful).


Although I've thankfully never been in a situation where I've had to do it, I'd strongly recommend you take-up what this site offers & others have suggested. I can assure you that it's not "mob justice", I'm referring to though, it's Link Outdated / Removed

 

[Joseph3]

I haven't decided to do this 'PAB' though.
Obviously I have heard of Casinomeister on TV etc, and I have scanned through the forums over the years, but I am confused about this PAB service.
I'm looking at all these casino banners and thinking there's an obvious conflict of interest here.

I thought the forum was a discussion on fair play, which is what I am doing. But you are right, I suppose I do have an agenda to get my money back, so this will be my last post.